Dell Says Apple is Greenwashing Its Gear
by Jaymi Heimbuch, San Francisco, California 
on 12.22.08
Screen capture from Apple's Green Ad
There's a hot debate out in the enviro-sphere on whether or not Apple is as green as it says it is, or green at all. Well, Dell tends to side with the nay sayers.
Unless you've been under a rock, or are utterly uninterested in computers, you haven't missed Apple's latest ads touting the greenness of its products. Dell, however, says that's a bunch of huff and puff.
Bob Pearson, Dell's VP of Communities and Conversations (you can have a VP for that??), says that Apple is being irresponsible to the earth by making false claims for how green it is and hoping consumers won't notice. Apple, along with Dell and HP, are perceived to be the greenest computer companies, so the two are direct competitors for the up-and-coming greener consumer base.
And now, the blogosphere is abuzz with the latest entry to Dell's blog knocking Apple for what it says are green fake-outs.
Our view is that companies who choose to lead have an obligation to be open and transparent. We have a responsibility to engage in dialogue about the environment, whether we agree or disagree with an individual person or group. It all contributes to the greater good.What is not good is to skip steps, avoid dialogue and pray that people aren't smart enough to figure it out. That doesn't help any of us and it certainly doesn't further the environmental cause for those of us who care deeply about it.
And they end on this rather lame note:
We wish Apple would be more bold in making a difference rather than making ads. If they do both, then fantastic, run all the ads you want. But don't forget what this is all about. And, remember, we're just getting started.
While Dell is positioning this outburst as we-have-to-say-it-for-the-sake-of-the-world-and-humanity, really, it's just an attempt to knock Apple off its high green horse and get Dell a better edge in the marketplace.
Whether Apple is green or not - and that can be debated until the end of time - and whether Dell is delivering a petty blow with this post - equally as eternally debatable - we have to say that this incident is good news for us as computer users.
Companies are calling each other out when it comes to eco-friendliness and competing over it out in the open. That means the issue is taken with seriousness, and companies will have to live up to what it is they dish out if they want their brand to survive.
So, greener computers, here they come.
Also - here is one of the ad Dell is referencing:
Via a whole lot of blogs, but most humorously, TUAW
More on Apple and Dell
Apple's Mac Brick Rumors and the Environmental Impact
Steve Jobs: New Apple Nano iPods to be Greener
Dell Reaches Carbon Neutrality Goals, 5 Months Ahead of Schedule
Dell to Transition All Laptop Displays to Mercury-Free LED Backlights
Follow @TreeHugger on Twitter & get our headlines with @TH_rss!
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I don't get this. What has Dell done that Apple hasn't? Apple has hundreds of Retail stores that will take back and recycle their products for free. They will even send you a free shipping label so that you can recycle an Apple product if you don't live near an Apple Store. Apple's new "Brick" laptop shell was designed for quick recycling from the beginning. Apple has dramatically reduced it's packaging, and all of their screens are LED lit which means no Mercury. Apples products are "Cradle to Cradle" as much as anyones.
Granted this public discussion is good, but I wish Dell would rip Lenovo or HP instead of Apple. That is where the true fingers should be pointed.
But where does the science come in? Dell can't just make a claim like that without citing some evidence of mis-information. I would, however, not be surprised at all if Mac just got a little too cocky and comfortable and decided that people would just go along with it. I demand the science!
I just think it's funny that all Dell has to say about Apple is how green they are not. What about the exploding batteries Dell put in there computers for years? How GREEN was that. Most of the components that go into each and every computer has to be Rohs compliant. No matter who it comes from. I think Dell is just jealous because they are not the king anymore.
@ EnViralment ... I would like to see Apple prove it, since they are the ones advertising it. Let's see apple's proof?
The point is Dell & Apple are going greener eventually, even if they're fibbing about it now.
Either way, no one buys a computer because it's green. People buy the best computer for their needs. No one is thinking about how they are going to recycle it before its even bought
@Dallas. Dell is the only technology company to offer free recycling for consumers worldwide. Other computer manufacturers (including Apple) frequently charge a shipping or processing fee unless you're purchasing a new computer. We've challenged every company in our industry to join us in offering free recycling, but to date nobody has answered the challenge.
Packaging is another good example... it's one thing to focus on a niche product or two, but we just outlined a new plan to reduce packaging 10 percent (or 20 million pounds) across all laptops and desktops. We believe this will have a greater impact.
Jaymi's last point about continued innovation is a good one... as an industry, we need to do a better job educating our customers about environmental initiatives. Thirty-second ads simply won't cut it.
We've been pointing out the big gap between Apple's actual performance (environment and otherwise) and its carefully crafted brand image. At Vanno, Apple is #57 out of the 65 electronics companies that we track, while Dell is #17 out of 65.
At my college Apple is the only company who will give us purchase credits to buy new comps. Dell actually charges us to take more than the alloted amount of recycled computers each year. When we switched to Apple they took all of our computers we needed recycled that we had been planning on getting rid of over like ten years with Dell.
* Note that Apple not only took the old computers (all of them) but essentially gave us money for them.
Apple has been reducing packaging sizes for years. They stopped producing CRT monitors *years* before flat-screens became the standard.
Dell is infamous for shipping products in laughably huge boxes-inside-of-boxes-inside-of-boxes. Is Dell actually doing the little things like eliminating the use of plastics in favor of recyclable metals?
I enjoy reading blogs, because unlike actual journalism there is no need to try and not be bias.
Self-declared claims of two firms can be fairly compared if they are validated by an objective, trusted 3rd party using standard methods. Energy Star suffers from this issue as well. Even eco-labels are obtained by paying fees.
Dell also has that progra mwhere if you bu ya pc they will plant a tree.
We've been pointing out the big gap between Apple's actual performance (environment and otherwise) and its carefully crafted brand image. At Vanno, Apple is #57 out of the 65 electronics companies that we track, while Dell is #17 out of 65.
"we just outlined a new plan to reduce packaging 10 percent (or 20 million pounds) across all laptops and desktops. We believe this will have a greater impact."
Erm, as Apple already have teensy packaging for their products I'd suggest they're way ahead of you already...
@Jason: Apple also had an exploding battery problem and had to do a massive recall.
https://support.apple.com/ibook_powerbook/batteryexchange/main?id=qp
http://www.apple.com/support/macbookpro/batteryexchange/
What a bunch of whiny babies. Anyone already fooled by green-washing won't be daunted by such bickering.
History has proven Apple to be bad. They had to be dragged in late to a "take back" program. Their millions of iPods become toxic e-waste when the non replaceable battery fails to recharge. This is a big Hello to you dorks at Apple who are blind about your harm. All u see are stock options. Apple even hired a lobbyist when Maine attempted to write e-waste laws.
http://tinyurl.com/fmyapple
quote:
In 2004 in Maine, Apple hired a lobbyist named Dan Riley to oppose the state e-waste legislation supported by the Computer TakeBack Campaign which passed in spite of Apple’s opposition
http://tinyurl.com/applepdf
PS: Dell made errors too, prison labor. A mud slinging race to the top is sexy, just keep the mud factual.
okayyy... so where is this going now?? Apple is green, Dell is Green.... how does that make any difference?? Aplle suppprters are going to support Apple. Dell supporters are going to support Dell. this fight will go on forever...
And Damn him/ her to hell who points fingers at HP..
THEY ALL GREEN WASH! and your a fool if you don't realize other wise. Dell is particularly bad.
Example. Close down all manufacturing in Austin texas, Move said manufacturing to india where "green energy" isn't available. Then switch corporate headquarters to "green energy" and call your operations 100% green.
Any manufacturer that has 70+% of their goods and services built over seas where there is little to no regulation on emissions is green washing and this includes that little rotten apple.
wow. 3 clouded issues in the responses
1- is apple actually green (enough)
2- is apple greener than dell
3-apple fanbois must attack anyone criticizing their overpriced shinies.
(full disclosure, i dislike both companies for different reasons)
apple has not laid it's cards on the table, but is claiming a royal straight flush. dell for the most part has laid it's cards out, and has a pretty good (not ideal) green cred.
apple (afaik) has not released energy costs for their mfg process. milling a solid block is a LOT more intensive than a press mold or sheet metal construction, and nearly identical in recycalability. it's a false green claim from a mfg perspective. -1 apple.
the lists of apple greenness here are not useful, or related, i.e. apple left CRTs (better color for designers) not for green reasons, but to minimize their product line, and that doesn't address lifecycle costs or recyclability of either. comparing dells issues to apple's, apple has had battery explosions as well, however i'm not seeing how that is a "green" issue, more of a QC issue.
either support apples claims with documentation, or admit it's a fair criticism. once apple is open, we can compare to d(h)ell
People need to remember to read between the lines a bit better.
Dell says:
"Our view is ...an obligation to be open and transparent. "
In other words, Dell wants Apple to disclose their the details of their business plans before they've implemented them.
This is simply an easy way to get your 'Industrial Espionage' for free.
Its also the same hangup that GreenPeace has: they prefer potentially empty words, instead of deeds.
-hh
Hi, I found a link to the Greenpeace website on http://greenwashspy.com . They seem to be using the link to Greenpeace to promote themselves as a legitimate third party seeking to 'out' greenwashing. This website is actually a front for the PLA lobby. They confess it, if you look deeply enough into the site:
http://www.greenwashingspy.com/?page_id=384
The PLA industry (corn based plastic) is composed primarily of Cargill, Inc., disguised as NatureWorks, and ADM.
See: http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/responsibleshopper/company.cfm?id=200
And: http://www.coopamerica.org/programs/responsibleshopper/company.cfm?id=187
Interestingly, in order to disguise the real money behind the BPI, none of the above companies appear in the membership list published at:
http://www.bpiworld.org/BPI-Public/Members/Directory.html
This lobby is clearly behind the California law that equates compostability with biodegradablility, thus giving a boost to the PLA industry. The problem with putting PLA in landfills, I have been informed by a landfill operator, is that it biodegrades so quickly that the methane produced by anaerobic biodegradation in the landfills will escape before the landfills are 'capped and tapped.'
The problem with making all plastic disposable items out of corn, which is the usual source of PLA, is that something like 150,000,000 tons of plastic would be made out of corn, driving up prices for corn and leading to a devastating increase in the world hunger problem.
Full disclosure: I represent a company that competes with the PLA industry--by choice. We could have become a PLA company just as easily.
-Tim Dunn, BioGreen Products Co.
http://biogreenproducts.biz
A source for biodegradable and oxo-biodegradable plastic disposable items