Worst Sales Performance of Any Car: Toyota Prius

I think the poor sales numbers are because dealerships wont budge on the hybrid prices. They want to get the trucks and suv's off the lot so they more than willing to negotiate. They know people want to save money by getting a hybrid so they stand firm on those prices.

I think the poor sales performance of the prius is based simply upon greed. Dealerships (in my area) had marked the prius up up to $7,000 over sticker in May because of gas prices. They are still marked up 3-4k even though each dealership near me has at least 5 on the lot.

You're comparing different categories of vehicles though. The Prius may be the worst when compared to all other vehicles on the market, but each category has its own niche market. Of the Prius's niche market -- the compact hybrid -- it's still the top seller. Even so, the overall drop is sales has less to do with short-term company strategy than it does with an overall lackluster economy and poor long-term planning.

I don't think that raising the gas prices in an attempt to force people into more expensive cars is going to help the situation in America today. The economic crisis today is creating an unprecedented increase in the working class and working poor. Do you think that these people, myself included, need to be forced economically into change? Before 2008 we accounted for 30% of the population, I suspect that in 2009 our numbers will have swelled. We don't buy new fancy cars, we buy old used cars or cheap new cars. We are demographic saddled with giant gas guzzlers because they are all that we can afford. What we need are COST EFFECTIVE solutions to the issue. We need sub $15K fuel efficient cars. We need government initiatives to get rid of our old cars or to have them converted to alternative fuel. What we don't need are more $75 tanks of gas and $25K - $30 "hybrids". The middle class is dying and will be the minority soon, start focusing on how we can address the issue with the working class and the working poor.

I totally agree that gas needs to be priced higher. Ever since gas has come down in price, i see a lot more of Hummer, or is it Dummer, H1s, and other big SUVs rolling around again. And this will pretty much kill the electric car once again. What a sad cycle we have gotten ourselves into.

I do see the numbers, but I also see an economy that is in a slump, so the Big Three, have deep discounts on their vehicles. The Prius has no special discounts of any sort. Toyota has the 1% financing for all of their vehicles, except the Prius, I believe that shows that they do not seem to be having trouble selling them at this time. With gas prices down, it also does not seem to help the situation and as an avid bike rider, I do believe gas prices should go higher, because most people in this country seem to be driven by money, not thoughts about us destroying the environment.

I think this shows numbers can be very deceptive. In this case the biggest gainer ,the Malibu , barely sold more than the biggest loser - the Prius. I think Prius sales are somewhat depressed by lower gas prices but also by people waiting for the next generation hybrid to come to market. Also the number 1 seller, F-150, actual sales decline was approximately 9000 fewer trucks sold which is significant when looking at sales overall.

I do agree with your overall premise that higher fuel costs generate interest in fuel efficient vehicles and alternative transportation. Unfortunately, as good an idea as an increased gas tax is, it would be impossible to pass. I think our best hope is to improve the economy thereby increasing demand for gas and let the price rise naturally.

Way to cherry-pick your information.....

" Toyota sold 21,757 Prius hybrids in the United States in April [2008], setting a record for April sales and making the Prius the third most popular vehicle in the Toyota line, trailing the Corolla and the Camry."
U.S. Department of Energy, Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, Consumer Guide, May 21, 2008

I have no idea why the Ford F150 did so well, while everyone else tanked.... but I would bet that there was a major order in from some business or government org that got delivered in Nov. or else their sales in 2007 were hideous.

What we are seeing is just what I feared. Oil and gas prices have dropped. People now believe that the worst is over and can return to past behavior. Not only is this harmful to the environment but it is harmful to our national security as well. This return to past behavior will increase demand and in the long run oil prices.

Of course the Prius is going to have a bad sales performance, especially when the dealers are being given incentives to sell much less fuel efficient vehicles in a bad recession. It's amazing what some competitors will do to diss an obviously better car. They will even hype their gas guzzlers in a vain attempt to get you, the customer, to drive it off the lot. I hate to say this, but thank god I ride the bus! Hail Mass Transit!

I wish we were like Europe too but we are not and it will take a long time if we started today with a new 'Moonshot' to build a train network like Europe. We would still have the problem of vast distances between the major business cities in the US. We also do not have the density of cities and options for affordable urban living. Look at the outrageous pricing of all these new urban condos in the medium sized cities. Most of these people are hipsters who like the uptown atmosphere but end up driving miles to work in the suburbs and supermarket. The most affordable option is to live way out in a suburb.

The $4 a gallon gas was beginning to change habits, but it also was causing inflation in services and food because of transportation cost. This has had a very bad effect on lower middle class americans who are the majority.

The only way this is going to work is to gradually raise gas prices so the whole infrastructure and living patterns change organically over thirty years. There are no politicians ever who will add a $2 tax to a gallon of gas - not even Obama. They are short term thinkers more concerned with getting re-elected. They might consider tax credits for greener options however. I think a good one would be to offer a credit for living within five miles of your work for the primary income earner.

Wait. What? There are way more cars out there than those on that list. That is the list of most popular cars. So it's not the worst sales performer of "any car", it's the worst of the top 16.

And I thought the Prius had a waiting list? Does the # of sales have anything to do with the limit on production due to batteries?

Perhaps the Prius is still hard to get and that drives the cost up.

The economy is in recession, and people are losing their jobs. Hybrids are simply too expensive and people don't have to money to invest in them or to move closer to jobs they may soon lose. Even if they were priced at sub $15k many people just can't afford to invest anything in a new vehicle especially not when banks are afraid to lend. Yes money wins out in this over the environment. When you're living paycheck to the paycheck you don't care about the long term environmental repricussions you care about being able to put food on the table so your family can survive. It's the sad truth, but until the economy is healthy again this trend in autos will not change, and despite what everyone wants to believe the government can't do it all. People will conserve to save money, they care more about the environment than ever, but cheap gas prices may be the only thing allowing people to get by at this time. You don't raise taxes during a recession whether it's on income or gasoline. This will pass like anything else but it may be a few months to years. In the end alternative energy needs to get cheaper, more efficient, and needs government backing!

The only way those sales numbers have any relevance is if they are compared to inventory. Toyota has noted throughout the year that their sales in their hybrids have been constrained by inventory shortfalls. Since they are in the process of re-tooling their prius line to make the new models for next year, they are probably even shorter than they were during the summer.

Ford shut down the F-150 line, probably wisely, when gas spiked this summer. Now that gas went back down and they are moving some inventory, they start the line back up. As someone who believes that peak oil and carbon taxation will force gas prices to trend up, I think Ford is making a boneheaded move in ramping up production again. Maybe some consumers are dumb enough to buy that cheap gas is here to stay, but Ford can make better decisions (like spending the billions they put into the new F-150 line in hybrids and electrics).

To be fair, the Prius is an awful vehicle to live with and drive around it. From road noise, to passenger comfort, to its laggy & uncertain jerky accelerator response, it performs in ways that would destroy the sales of any other vehicle.

I like the concept of hybrids, but this vehicle is plain awful. We use them at work and they are very effective as saving gas because people cancel trips to avoid having to use them.

Combine this with ridiculously low fuel prices last month and it is easy to understand why people would choose a similarly priced full size SUV or far more pleasant domestic midsized car with similar highway fuel economy.

The Prius may require less fuel to get to where you are going but it uses more fuel when being built, being ripped apart and even at servicing times. The Prius has more parts.

I'm not sure why the hybrid is so sought after by Treehugger fans when in fact it's a bad purchase all around. Think about the environmental impact those batteries are going to have. How many years does a Prius's batteries last? What happens when the car gets sent to a local junkyard in no where's land?

What makes the Prius a better car for the environment? It's a car, it still kills plants, animals, people etc. it requires new recycling plants, new parts plants more spare parts to run. Things just don't add up.

I view Prius owners in the same light as Hummer owners. Both are clueless to the real world facts about their vehicles.

Not to sound rude or trite, but because none of you would buy an F-150, doesn't mean others don't. It's an effective truck platform and there are a lot of people in that vast expanse from Texas to the Canadian border that sure like their F-150s. For the longest time, it was the #1 seller in the US. In any case, Ford has been in a looooooooooong restructuring process.

I would also dare say another aspect to the Prius slump is a function of the economy, pure and simple. I think many before the economic nosedive wanted to buy the car for the gas savings but when things turned ugly, it was seen as discretionary because their non-hybrid Civic or Taurus or whatever could last another good year or two.

And really, high taxes may have positive outcomes toward investment (look, I'm a fan of the idea, but I also live in the Midwest), but the hardest hit will be those who can't afford to absorb the change. We dug a hole in building suburbs and unsustainable communities. That's the root of the problem, not the price of gas. In a country where people have to drive miles and miles to a supermarket, my problem is more with the miles and miles than the act of driving.

Personally I think the argument that this year's sales of product "x" must always surpass last year's sales is what got us in this consumerism mess to begin with.
Why are cars, a purchase that supposedly can last a very long time with proper care, expected to be discarded every year in favor of new ones? Are there really that many new buyers in the market every year? Is Fords' F150 08 that much better than the 07 model that they expect everybody to trade up?
Maybe from now on we should expect sales to be matched from year to year if the quality of the products were increased to reasonable performance levels.

The comments above ably illustrate why the automakers simply need to be forced to stop building vehicles we do not need, and make vehicles we do need. In other words, trucks are out... efficient cars are in. As long as automakers build gas-guzzlers and sell them cheap, Americans will keep buying them.

Maybe the Prius isn't to everyone's tastes, but there are other sensible alternatives, such as 3-cylinder commuter cars, electrics, etc., that the automakers can start building right now. If the automakers refuse to build the vehicles America needs, the government should be forcing the issue... now that the automakers are hardly in a position to argue about it.

Did you notice the price of gas has dropped recently? And apparently our collective memory is not so good. Last year when gas was high, Priuses sold in record numbers. This year when gas dropped, they have not sold so well. This is not rocket science.
Now is the time to institute a gas tax. Offer a matching tax break to the working poor and use the bulk of the gas tax to repair our infrastructure and to build alternative transportation like a high-speed train network.
Speaking of short term memory problems, anyone remember the fervor over all our bridges that need work? Whatever happened to all of that concern?

Prius sales in Washington State have almost completely froze. At least a dozen new and used ones are sitting on each dealer's lot right now. Why? The state is removing the sales tax from any car that gets combined over 40 mpg, starting January 1st. Who would buy one right now, when in 4 weeks, they'll save thousands on sales tax?

I know one state doesn't count for the nationwide drop, but I guarantee you it has a notable affect.

Wait a minute... "The heads of the auto companies are driving nine hours to Washington for their bailout pleas;"

NO NO NO NO

They're flying there in their private jets. Remember?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/19/big-three-ceos-flew-priva_n_144836.html

LA: yes yes yes: this time they are driving

Hello-
Thanks for the post. I wanted to respond to the comment that the Prius is a horrible car. I have had one for 6 years now and would never describe it as horrible. As far as cars go it has been pretty good though still a car.

The only criticism I have is that this model (the first to come out) is really awful in the snow. My best friend has a later model Prius in Wisconsin and it is just fine in the snow.

If I recall from last year, there were waiting lists for new Prii. (Sorry, I was a classicist, it's too hard to say "Priuses".) Do you have figures for how those numbers compare with the number of Prii distributed in the US?

The difference is you can do everything you can do in a Prius in an F-150 except for get good gas mileage. You can not do everything you can do in a F-150 in a Prius. Many people require heavy duty trucks for work or for towing. Would it be environmentally friendly (not to mention economical) to buy a pickup for when you need it and a Prius for when you don't? Probably not.

if you sell 20 cars one year and 1 less the next your sales are down 5%. if you sell 10 cars one year and 1 less the next your sales are down 10%. make any sense?

the thing about the prius is that toyota loses money with every one they sell whereas ford makes a bunch of money with every f-150 they sell yet who is going bankrupt?

Hold on! I think there is a danger is ascribing a trend when you only use two data points - last November and this November. There is also a danger when failing to consider other explanations, like our currently bizarre economy and the totally novel auto business climate. What if the Prius had a gangbuster month last November? If they did not repeat that record this year we would see percentage decrease for this months sales. What is the total number of Prius sales was three times the sales of the Malibu? This can hardly be called a slump. The Malibu was totally revamped this year and just had a marketing blitz. Maybe the number speak to that. So, slow down and look at additional numbers here. Try to create a true trend using multiple data points. Then do your analysis.

As others have already pointed out, this was a bad example for so many reasons. If you want to argue that GM and Toyota are the same underneath, fine. But bringing this month's Prius sales into the argument was a bad idea.

http://hybridreview.blogspot.com/2008/12/prius-is-worst-performing-car-in-sales.html

Thanks for the link, I'm glad you thought I made some good points.

You apparently don't even understand the numbers you are using to prove your rant.
What's more important is that you sent the commenters (and likely readers) in the wrong direction.
This post belongs in a personal blog.

I cringe every time I see someone say that "the market didn't want them", when in fact the "market" was TOLD they didn't want them. Or rather, that they wanted something else.

Look at the ads from a couple of years ago: They were all about SUVS. The "market" was told SUVs were safer. They were told bigger is better, so you could carry the entire little league team if need be. They played up the adventure of being able to climb mountains and to go anywhere, even if the only place you went was to the corner grocery store.

Now look at the previous summer. Suddenly you started seeing ads about some car with "the best mileage in its class".

Sorry, but by and large the "market" bought exactly what Detroit wanted to sell.

GM's Malibu has been rolled out to rental car & corporate fleets across the country. Take fleet sales out of the equation and you'll see the true consumer antipathy to such a piece of cr#p.

I find it very interesting that so many people on this forum thread (and in the U.S.) seem to get stuck following along in a line and don't stop, take a step back (try to be truly objective) and look at the bigger picture view (I only read two maybe three responses that kind of get the point).
Many U.S. consumers, especially in the midwest and west (where I and most of my family and extended family live), need their bigger vehicles for work/farm/ranch and home, to haul various things, cargo, people and animals and also for recreation too.

What is truly sad and should be unacceptable to all U.S. citizens, is the fact that All Major Auto. Companies (U.S. and Foreign) were (and are) slow to identify this fact and then fail to focus, at least an equal amount of R&D, on fuel efficient, larger gas and clean diesel vehicles and how to Substantially improve their highway and city mpg.
Also, to me, it's very sad, surprising and frustrating, that I can buy a new, or used, Toyota Corolla (or the now sadly/stupidly defunct Geo/Chevy Prizm) or a Honda Civic, that have always gotten around 35-40mpg highway (legitimately 45mpg using an aftermarket oil treatment) and 30 mpg city, in various weather and road conditions, with a below $15k price and a decent resale value along with best in class reliability; but, the key here is also having readily available, reliable and affordable older models that the average American can afford and afford to maintain. Whereas, Toyota's gas Hybrid's Prius, Camry, etc. and Honda's Insight, Civic, etc. Only get incrementally better gas mpg (less than 10mpg improvement), while greatly increasing the complexity and cost (for new and used cars-max 100k miles battery life).

Now, before the treehugger hardcores start railing away, I have for many years, wanted to be able to drive affordable hybrid and electric vehicles too (and hold the long time dream to see them used throughout our motorized society; along with efficient, well developed, well run and properly maintained/updated mass transit/transport systems across the country).
My problem (and I think for many other American consumers also) is that I am not willing to pay $5-10k more for a hybrid that does not Substantially raise the actual realtime conditions highway/city gas mpg by at least 50-100%.
And what is also truly sad is that there are many start up hybrid and electric vehicle companies that are today making the same mistake and are primarily focusing, on just the Highend small and sports car markets; and, for EV's, shooting for only 40 mile ranges (in optimum conditions, with recharge times averaging 6 to 8+hours).

I find this to be just more sheep following along, thinking short term, instead of the real need for radical change for the near future for the majority of people.

I am here and now issuing a challenge (and I know I have enough current education, quality work ethic and attention to detail; along with my many years of business experience and contacts; my own personal abilities; my lifelong learning, positive outlook and attitude; and, with my R&D contacts around the U.S. and the world, to back this up and succeed), that if a group (small or large) of well intentioned, silent (from an authority basis) investors, with a long term investment horizon, can come up with between 500 million and one billion dollars (or an available/renewable credit line - which, by the way, is just a drop in the bucket compared to the 25-100 Billion dollars the "Big Three" are asking for), I'll commit to an initial, first production schedule of within 4-5 years, that I, my team and our newly formed and creatively managed company (paying living/related/"Circle" wages to everyone from line workers on up to and including management level), can put together Efficient Factory/Production Lines (including our parts/vendor relationships) and effectively challenge all currently existing auto. companies with choices of Extremely Fuel Efficient medium size cars (5 passengers and cargo), vans (mini and full size), SUV's (medium and large) and trucks (various load ranges), aimed at middle class Americans, Canadians and Mexicans (initially, then export markets). The first actual production will possibly be only one or two lines because of the unknown total costs involved for startup. I have some creative marketing and dealer ideas, that will help to keep costs competitive.
Let me know what you think on a new thread titled- New Hybrid Vehicles Venture.

These are US figures, and the companies you refer to are global companies.

How does the F-150 stack up against the Prius in a global market?

"My point is this: The only way to wean America off big cars and trucks and into cars like the Europeans and Japanese drive is to price gas the way the Europeans price gas- with a big fat tax to make it four or six bucks a gallon."

Uh-huh. So, in other words, the only way to enforce YOUR utopian plan for the future is to take away more individual rights, by having government price controls on a commodity you don't happen to like. After all, we can't leave people to make choices for themselves, now can we? You know what's best for us. We can't be trusted to own vehicles of which YOU happen to approve.

The sales figures clearly show that left to our own devices, most of us prefer an F-150 (or in my case, a Nissan Titan) to some crap-tastic, over-priced sissymobile. You don't like Prius sales figures? Well, then why don't YOU put your money where your mouth is, and YOU can own one. I don't tell you what to drive, so I'll thank you to keep your nose out of my business, Mrs. Kravitz.

Left-wingers (whingers?), like Lloyd Alter are always eager to use endless government meddling and regulation to force the rest of us into line. Tell you what Lloyd, if you think life in Europe or Japan is so great, why don't you move there? Or is suggesting that now a "hate crime"?

It seems to me that the likely reason for the decline in sales of the Prius is because the Prius is about to be replaced by a new model in 2009. Most manufacturers scale back the production of an outgoing model in the months before a new model is released.

It will be more interesting to check back in 6 months time - monthly figures for any car can be heavily skewed by a variety of factors, but over time these anomalies will be addressed.

In Canada, where gas is much more expensive, car sales in general and I suspect of the Prius in particular have not had the dramatic declines being seen in the US. Cheaper gas and a slowing economy are likely to impact those sales dramatically in the months ahead.

As has been observed in Europe, our higher gas prices have provided the incentive for the majority of people in Canada to drive smaller cars than is true in the states (the corolla and civic are the top selling cars, not the accord or toyota camry).

Who knows where this "worst sales performance of any car" came from... There are plenty of other vehicles (even if you only count cars and not "light trucks") that had more than 48% sales decline for November 08 vs. November 07.

From looking at http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Toyota-Reports-November-Sales/story.aspx?guid={C58FA65A-A1BA-4493-9223-376592D812C2} some of examples of non-discontinued cars that were off more include: Toyota Avalon, scion tC, Lexus GS. GM at http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/84/84530/sales_production/Deliveries%20November%202008.pdf has plenty of cars that were off more including the Cobalt, Corvette, Lucerne, Solstice, etc.

vboring: Your post is typical of ignorant anti-hybrid, anti-Prius folks. You're the one who is clueless and is just hand waving.

You're probably getting your info from the thoroughly debunked junk "science" CNW garbage. Why don't you take a look at http://www.toyota.co.jp/en/k_forum/tenji/pdf/pgr_e.pdf, http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/30974-prius-vs-hummer-exploding-myth.html and http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/30974-prius-vs-hummer-exploding-myth-3.html#post462408 and http://priuschat.com/forums/prius-hybrid-news/30974-prius-vs-hummer-exploding-myth-4.html#post485434.

The maintenance requirements for the Prius are no more (and actually less) than that of a conventional car. There are many documented cases (for instance) of Prius owners having plenty of life on the original front brake pads at 100K miles.

Cite me REAL figures on "environmental impact" of the batteries. The battery pack is almost 100% recycled and Toyota has a $200 bounty on them. The Sudbury nickel mining story was bogus and retracted (http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/news/article-417227/Toyota-factory.html). The HV battery pack is warranted for 10 years/150K miles in California and CARB states. http://john1701a.com/prius/owners/jesse4.htm went for 349K miles on his previous gen Prius before it was totalled.

People that make claims about the complexity of the Prius are clearly ignorant. The power split device in the Prius is far less complicated than an automatic transmission. It has only 1 planetary gear set and no torque converter.

I looked at a Prius in October. There's a reason why they're not selling: There were 60 people on the waiting list and the salesman wouldn't even let us test drive one. "You don't want that, the waiting list is long" he says.

As I understand it Toyota is still losing a little money on each Prius they sell. They want you to buy something that's profitable for them but they need to sell just enough Priuses to get you into the dealership.

They even downplay the mileage when you ask about them telling you that the best possible mileage on a Corolla is close to the worst possible mileage on a Prius.

We ended up with a Scion. Buying a hybrid turns out to be a difficult task. I was just glad to half nearly a half dozen small hatchbacks to choose from even if the Prius wasn't one of them.

Great post-
Thanks for the info. I hope these trends shift back, but also think this shows that our focus in 2009 needs to be on the low-hanging fruit of efficiency upgrades (in cars, appliances, insulation, lighting, etc.). A recession will hurt our progress in selling more expensive hybrid cars and solar panels, but doesn't have to derail our cheaper tools to cut carbon emissions - namely efficiency.

Here's my hope for 2009 & efficiency: http://setenergy.org/2008/12/07/obama-co-make-2009-year-of-efficiency/

Such a plan could accelerate the intense changes in US energy (especially driving) habits taking place. One exciting development is that we are consuming more than 5% less oil in ‘08 and thus carbon emissions are poised to fall 2.5% this year. See details at:
http://setenergy.org/2008/11/13/a-banner-year-for-us-climate-research-sees-sharp-emissions-drop/

Even China emissions are falling this quarter as electricity consumption falls a record in November. See details at: http://setenergy.org/2008/12/05/china-power-generation-falls-record-amount-climate-hope-alive/

The real challenge will be how we continue emissions reduction once the economy picks up again.

If you find the SET daily blog on major energy and climate developments useful at http://www.setenergy.org , please consider adding it to your blogroll.

Onwards to sustainability,
Dennis