We're The Big Three. We Don't Need to Compete.

Your comments and selection of one sided fake advertisements for the big three probably appeals to the majority of the tree huggers. I am also a tree hugger who just happens to live in Detroit, Michigan.

And I consider your big three bashing offensive.
In Michigan, we have been in a recession for the last 8 years. Each of those years, we have lost jobs. The auto industry has been downsizing during that period. Cheap credit has made the downsizing manageable. But, now that is gone.
I do not know if the loans from the government are a good thing or a bad thing, but your bashing of the big three doesn't help. I am a tree hugger who is not influenced by yor cheap shots at an industry I believe we need to keep in the United States of America.

Socialize it. I am serious. GM, Ford, and Dodge sells there assets to the U.S. Government, The new car company makes electric vehicles, keeps the workers and even expands the work force, continue development by the government to create a hydrogen fuel cell.

15 years in the future the U.S. Government is mass producing hydrogen cars. But that is a little too progressive and "Socialist" for most people to take, but I believe it would work as long as there was transparency. If Obama does what he has said he will do, this would be along the same line as our infrastructure or schools or military. The revenue from the car sells would go into development for hydrogen.

I am not here to bash the big 3, but they do deserve it, at least the management does. I respect and honor the workers of these companies, but when Ford had an electric vehicle in the 1970s but abandoned the program and started making huge SUVs instead of blazing the trail, thats their fault.

I don't like the car companies, and if they would have changed there ways this would not be happening now. If they produced cars 10 years ago that got 40 to 50 mpg, you wouldn't see so many foreign cars on the road.

What a great ad to summarize how most of the country feels. Keeping an industry in business only because people will lose jobs is ridiculous. They are reaping what they sowed by producing and pushing gas guzzlers instead of cars with hybrid technology which made them not competitive in the market. All of the CEOs for these companies have discussed how they don't really like hybrids in an attempt to appeal to the blue collar worker. Well, look what happened, they screwed over the blue collar worker. The country shouldn't have to bail out these wealthy, bad businessmen because those blue collar workers that stood by them will lose their jobs. It's time to get a job in another factory; oh wait, there's no more factory jobs left. When will the blue collar worker get what's happening to them and stop blaming us tree huggers for not bailing them out. Isn't the government not interfering in this matter the Republican way?! You reap what you sow.

Patrick, You forgot that the "American" car industry buys a significant number of parts from Mexico and electronics from China to put in their cars, that in another significant amount are built in Mexico for the US market... If you want to support jobs in the US, many other companies like Kia, Hyundai, Subaru, BMW, Mercedes or Nissan employ US workers too at their plants all over this wide county, and they are not asking for tax payer's money...

absolutely stupid. to post "because it's true" at the end just makes it seem even more smarmy and ridiculous. btw it's $17B, and that is a bridge loan for these companies. not a $700B BAILOUT, or gift, like AIG and others received.

if you want to have real discussion about the auto industry in this country, have discussion. posting foul mouthed fake ads is just another way cynics manage to get their way without adding anything constructive, and their way is to get us nowhere.

I still see tons of those on the road so they must have done something right. but if you want to compare pictures like that side by side with an old and ugly Nissan or Toyota minivan, feel free.

As painful as the loss of the automotive industry is, it seems to me that complaints really are too late. The car of today is less and less interesting to consumers nowadays and people have turned a blind eye to this for so long that most of us seem to have stopped caring.

I feel baffled when I bike past auto lots, wondering when someone will come out with a transportation choice that will entice me to switch. (Will it be cars or what?) I'm tired of biking but the huge lots of SUVs, Jeeps, and in-general expensive cars just aren't very enticing. To me, at least, they're interesting relics of our past.

We've long been the butt of jokes about our cars and egos and now we're paying the price. This has been an obvious problem for too many years and now that we've 'gone too far' and leveraged our companies to the point of bankruptcy -now- people open their eyes and whine.

Well, it's too late. This is called capitalism and like it or not it's what you've signed up for. If you don't like losing your job, then for goodness sake, man, innovate! Take all this supposed know-how at machining parts, building things, creating elaborate physics-based models and test vehicles and put it to use.

It's a painful pill to swallow, but this is evolution in action.

Find something the world wants rather than complaining about what it doesn't - which is the Big 3's increasingly irrelevant cars.

The American consumer has voted (in polls). And it's by far not in favor of our auto industry. Which sounds suspiciously like democracy.

Big 3 bashing is not a slight at Detroit or the people there...and don't get mad at people that are speaking the truth because you or people you know are or were employed by one of the big 3.

Direct your anger at these massive corporations that really didn't their employees in mind, the environment in mind from the beginning.

Things could have changed a number of times, skilled and intelligent people have pointed out positive and negative trends that would have been worth pursuing or avoiding for the big 3.

Instead of listening to the people, paying attention to what people were asking for, you had three very large automakers that have accountants and executives designing plans to sell the same product to their potential customers. The customers by the way are hearing the same things that the big 3 are hearing. Things like: Environmental concerns when it comes to vehicles, foreign oil, quality, etc...

So, why wouldn't the people buy from manufacturers that took the better path with their products and diversified, improved, etc.

Don't be mad at people speaking the truth, be mad at the corporations that hammer you with guilt about keeping traditions alive (Heartbeat of America? LOL!) at the expense of your environment, your dollar and your intelligence.

Patrick, You forgot that the "American" car industry buys a significant number of parts from Mexico and electronics from China to put in their cars, that in another significant amount are built in Mexico for the US market... If you want to support jobs in the US, many other companies like Kia, Hyundai, Subaru, BMW, Mercedes or Nissan employ US workers too at their plants all over this wide county, and they are not asking for tax payer's money...

Patrick,

I hear what you are saying about keeping jobs in America. We all surely know that's needed. But the problem here is we are dealing with companies that drew a revolver on their foot and kept firing until they didn't have any toes left. I mean a lot of honda accords are built in America, from %70 domestic parts... Last I checked honda was doing O.K. (not great but ok for the economic situation at hand).

Why do people buy hondas and toyotas over american cars & trucks? Build quality and gas mileage, back when gas hit $2.00 a gallon the big three decided that they needed to increase their SUV output 5 fold. It hit 3.00 and they just began to take notice. Even what they had that was good they screwed it up, take the taurus for example they sold a sh*t load of them and figured it was doing so well they could keep making the same damn car for 8 years re-skin the thing and pretend they were going to keep up with companies that updated their lines every 3-4 years (actually did things to make a better car mechanically).

What about all those "cash back incentives". They should have taken that money and retrofitted all vehicles to run on natural gas/ propane/ gasoline/ ethanol (quite doable by the way) and provided customers with a home filling natural gas setup. At least customers would not be completely at the mercy of the gas pump. E85 is great but not so much when you can't buy it anywhere.

While I do feel bad for the workers, they were manufacturing turds while the other guy was producing roses. Is it nice that they all had jobs manufacturing turds? Yea, is it a surprise that the guy making roses sold more no. Should they let the people behind the company that all decided to make more turds rather than get with the program keep doing what they are doing? No.

I don't want any of them (big 3) to get a dime of taxpayer money before they can take a production ready car before congress that gets 40+ miles a gallon, doesn't look like a turd and can go 100,000+ without falling apart. At least then I will know that they have pulled their head out of their ass and might be able to compete in the market again.

patrick,

i don't think anyone could read this as fake ad as being an attack on workers. it's just an attack on the dumb management that continued to make crappy cars.

Saying that we're against the idea of keeping auto-making jobs in the US by ridiculing the big 3 US auto makers completely ignores the fact that Toyota and many other so-called non-American auto makers are building manufacturing plants in the US. In the same way, many European auto brands are actually owned by American companies like Ford, and manufactured abroad.

I feel bad for all of the people who are losing jobs because of bad decisions by the management of the big 3 US auto manufacturers (not to mention everyone else who is getting laid off lately), but that isn't going to stop me from laughing sadly when I see someone ridiculing the results of those bad decisions, or feeling a little taken aback when these so-called anti-socialist corporations come begging to the government when they can't compete in the capitalist environment they helped create.

The overall demand for cars worldwide will continue to grow but sales will decrease in the US slightly as drivers hold onto their cars a little longer. US auto workers may lose their jobs at the Big 3, but they will find jobs at car factories owned by Toyota, BMW, etc, if the workers are willing to work for reasonable wages. Unions are mainly to blame for the US industry's woes.

The Big 3 need to downsize and produce only their successful vehicles, while Toyota et al pick up the slack. That's business.

I also diagree strongly with this article - strongly biased cheap shots like this only discredit those of us in the "treehugger" community. The fact of the matter is that big 3 vehicles are not "crappy", but rather today quality is better than it's ever been, the issues with the financial problems run much deaper than this, and to over simpify the issue makes the author seem unintelligent.

Yes the big three are easily criticised but I do not blame them completely for the decisions to build large inefficient vehicles, and to choose to "kill" the electric car. These choices were made by consumers, American and to a lesser extent Canadian consumers who demanded large inefficient vehicles. The big three were only giving us what we asked for. When fuel was cheap do you honestly think an electric car was something people would have been willing to pay a high price premium for? Absolutely not. The point is that the blame does not lie solely with the manufacturers, it is shared equally with consumers, with you and I.

And also, remember that foreign car companies also have a line up of huge, gas guzzlers too. Go check out the lineup at Toytota, Honda, Nissan, etc.., take your pick of any number of big inefficient vehicles! Obviously their business model was much more sustainable than the big 3, but implying that foreign companies are "green" and the big 3 are not is very inaccurate and again, discredits the author of this piece.

Awesome ad. It's a perfect way to sum up the disaster that is the Big 3. The auto industry had every opportunity to go in a positive direction and build more fuel efficient or hybrid cars, but chose gas guzzlers.
The US government was no help by putting forth lame attempts at mandates (35mpg?!).

Oh, ha-ha! I'm SO keeping that photo-it's hilarious!

Good one.

Remember that it isn't just that American auto makers make a product of inferior quality and in lower demand than foreign based ones, but they also pay their workers more due to the stranglehold of worker unions. don't misunderstand me, unions are needed. But it makes it nearly impossible to fire incompetent workers now matter how long they have worked there. Overpaid workers and unwanted products leaves no room for R&D which is needed to make more fuel efficient cars and research hybrid alternatives. So with no R&D the keep shoving out the gas guzzlers that they have been making for 30 years and advertise until people think 30MPG is high mileage for a four-door sedan. Production in the US a shrinking market, so you can either change to some kinda of engineering, designing, or service. The death of the auto industry will leave millions jobless, but over time will be a large burden off the shoulders of the US economy.

Unless they grow some balls, downsize, and invest that bailout money into R&D they are fated and right should cease to exist.
I really hope not a dollar of that bailout money goes anywhere near an SUV.

Didn't Ford say the didn't need any bailout money at this time?

Patrick, I feel for your plight. Personally, though, I'd rather see that bailout money going straight into your pockets as unemployment compensation, while the Big 3 get shut down for taking advantage of you, and the American public, for all this time.

I live in Flint and I know many people and have relatives that worked for GM and I can say that the only good in the big three were the workers working in the factories. Workers that were heavily overpaid for such thoughtless repetitive jobs. Don't argue with me, I have many first hand sources to site. The big three has had very poor management and produces overall crap that they label vehicles and put on the roads. They need to go down, there's no competition to make their cars any better and the public doesn't know any better. There will always be car companies here in the states. If the big three leave people will be there to take their place, example: Aptera. You can all just forget about hydrogen, it's a fruitless pursuit. http://www.energybulletin.net/node/4541 because of what this article truthfully states hydrogen is if anything like nuclear fission, just a temporary thing until we get something better.

I live in Flint and I know many people and have relatives that worked for GM and I can say that the only good in the big three were the workers working in the factories. Workers that were heavily overpaid for such thoughtless repetitive jobs. Don't argue with me, I have many first hand sources to site. The big three has had very poor management and produces overall crap that they label vehicles and put on the roads. They need to go down, there's no competition to make their cars any better and the public doesn't know any better. There will always be car companies here in the states. If the big three leave people will be there to take their place, example: Aptera. You can all just forget about hydrogen, it's a fruitless pursuit. http://www.energybulletin.net/node/4541 because of what this article truthfully states hydrogen is if anything like nuclear fission, just a temporary thing until we get something better.

@ patrick

It is a shame that Detroit has had such terrible problems the last decade. But it is not my fault that the Big 3 have pushed gas guzzlers on stupid suburbanites and I shouldn't have to pay for their disgrace. I say let them fail! America doesn't need them. If the Big 3 fall, 400 other car making enterprising business men and engineers will happily fill in their gaps. That is what is means to be a "Free Market". It is not Free -Unless you are too big to fail- market.

I am sorry life is hard for you. Maybe it's time to move to Dallas. Lots of jobs for bright young engineers here.

Patrick, I'm sorry that so many workers who did nothing wrong are going to lose their jobs. It is absolutely unfair.

But business isn't fair. Economic growth is only possible if we let the uncompetitive companies die. Your fate is in the hands of management that has proven incompetent time and again. They have the power to change the way their companies operate, to be competitive once again on the world stage. But they have to change, restructure, reorganize, and refocus. They'll probably be hiring fewer factory workers and more engineers, too.

Is a company like McDonnalds or the like any different? Feed the masses poor food knowingly built upon subsities, antibiotics and cheap oil / gas until the health, environment or energy system collapses. Then they can get an image bailout someday from some government bureaucracy instead in the form of money.

How is this true of the Panoz Esperante and the new Cadillac CTS?

I can't wait for the day when all of the people bashing the big three have to watch their parent who worked their entire life for a company, any company! have NOTHING when they retire. Keep buying your foreign cars. I pray for the day YOU lose YOUR JOB because there are none left.

Wait a minute! Blame it on the Big 3? We purchased a 2007 Chevy Malibu LS almost two years ago, and the WORST gas mileage we have got is 35 mpg.

The problem is NOT that the Big 3 did not make good high mileage cars, the problem was that normal cosumers did not buy them, and yes I do mean you!

We drove all the cars, and decided the Malibu LS was the best deal. BUT, since people weren't buying them, we had to go to three different dealers to find one. We found one, GM was indeed building them, and it has been a great car. I usually get over 40 mpg in this car, and never less than 35.

Don't bash the automakers too much, they DID build the cars, it is the American people who DIDN'T buy them.

Wait a minute! Blame it on the Big 3? No so fast. We purchased a 2007 Chevy Malibu LS almost two years ago, and the WORST gas mileage we have got is 35 mpg.

The problem is NOT that the Big 3 did not make good high mileage cars, the problem was that normal cosumers did not buy them, and yes I do mean you!

We drove all the cars, and decided the Malibu LS was the best deal. BUT, since people weren't buying them, we had to go to three different dealers to find one. We found one, GM was indeed building them, and it has been a great car. I usually get over 40 mpg in this car, and never less than 35.

Don't bash the automakers too much, they DID build the cars, it is the American people who DIDN'T buy them.

On another note, I also bought a new full size 2006 Chevy truck the year before, with the 5.3 liter V8 engine. I get 20 to 22 mpg , towing package and all.

The big three has been building great vehicles with great gas mileage, I bought two and am well satisfied. What did you buy?

I live in Flint and I know many people and have relatives that worked for GM and I can say that the only good in the big three were the workers working in the factories. Workers that were heavily overpaid for such thoughtless repetitive jobs. Don't waste your time arguing with me, I have many first hand sources to cite. The big three has had very poor management and produces overall crap that they label vehicles and put on the roads. They need to go down, there's no competition to make their cars any better and the public doesn't know any better. There will always be car companies here in the states. If the big three leave people will be there to take their place, example: Aptera. You can all just forget about hydrogen, it's a fruitless pursuit. http://www.energybulletin.net/node/4541 because of what this article truthfully states hydrogen is if anything like nuclear fission, just a temporary thing until we get something better.

The big 3 need to go extinct, bankrupt, bye-bye.

The unions destroyed these companies and their own retirements. They are inefficient dinosaurs that need to go away so that Toyota, Honda and Nissan can show the American people how auto companies CAN thrive.

GM can compete in the global market, but its liabilities prevent it from making a profit. EVER!

Say NO to unions.

I feel the overwhelming urge to scream and swear and hit things reading this ad, and the comments.
That being said,

Are you really that daft?

If the big three go under, the United States would pay DEARLY. 2% of all US jobs are somehow linked in the -AMERICAN- auto industry.
Personally, living in the Detroit Metro Area, where I grew up and the entire area around it would be nothing. My elementary school? Gone. Ghost town, there would be nothing left of Wayne, Michigan.

And the shit that's being talked about these companies is outrageous.

My '94 Buick Roadmaster is getting roughly 24mpg. It's a boat.
a loaded Honda Civic gets 26. There's no way to improve upon the gas mileage of these things without making cars smaller and lighter.
And I'd like to see any of YOU drive a tiny electric hybrid through Michigan winter. Good luck.

Do YOU want a tiny hybrid? Probably not. A lot of people don't.

Foreign auto sales are high simply because of price.

The big three is spending their money paying my grandfather and great uncles pension...something that's not a problem for automakers who haven't been here a hundred years.

The lack of compassion on this disgusts me.

As a libertarian, I'm curious myself, if you were to deduct the cost of federal regulation, environmental regulation and governmental support of the UAW from each domestic car, would the price per product be more competitive? Furthermore, calculate the amount of money paid in taxes and the money asked for by the domestic automakers. How does that pan out?

As a libertarian, I oppose the bailout, but it's disingenuous to pretend that the situation they find themselves in is completely their own fault. Ask yourself how the UAW got as much power as they have. Was it in any way influenced by government interference in the market?

Also, they've paid large amounts in federal and state taxes. Am I to assume every libertarian refused their rebate check or refuses to drive on public roads?

As I said, I oppose the bailout, there are rational, principled reasons against it, however, glib sarcasm and cheap jokes are a weak way to make a point. The quality of domestic cars is really not the problem. The inflated cost for their relatively poor quality is. No one complains about a Whopper that costs under $2, everyone complains when you charge $10 for a whopper. Ask yourself what makes up that cost and you'll find the story is more complex than "Van sucks! Booga Booga!" Frankly, the fed is culpable as well. Bust the UAW and relieve the oppressive regulation and the Detroit 3 may have a shot.

@ Patrick

I understand how you feel. I realize that the authors advert is smoking the employees who have no cause for blame.

I have never driven a car from the big three. all the cars I drove were Japanese or European. except the Viper. what I dont understand is that, yes the Big Three probably never did build high mileage cars, or if they did, it was not widely recognized by the general public as an efficient car. Yes the management probably sucked. But even they are not stupid enough to start building cars that nobody wants. they study the market, demand, supply etc. take surveys and THEN decide what car to build. they probably figured out that the public in general had not been completely taken by the Eco-trend. hence the cars.

A previous poster mentioned the Chevy Malibu. that may have been a foray into High Mileage vehicles. You can't really blame the top dogs...or the workers..

I say just let them die. We can all but better made foreign cars, and all the people making cars nobody wants can get jobs doing something that is actually useful to society.

Sometimes businesses die, this is actually good because when a company goes under it means that it was no longer providing enough value to the consumers. The way to fix this is not to put a band-aid on the problem that will cost taxpayers billions. It would be far better(although still not the best option) to give the money to the displaced workers to tide them over while they look for new jobs.

[Brian says: absolutely stupid. to post "because it's true" at the end just makes it seem even more smarmy and ridiculous. btw it's $17B, and that is a bridge loan for these companies. not a $700B BAILOUT, or gift, like AIG and others received.]

You sound bitter buddy, $15B or $17B, aren't you splitting hairs? Poster or not, the truth hurts, & it doesn't make any difference whether it's a loan, bridge-loan, gift, financial aid, lil' pat on the head saying it's okay boys we forgive you for your years of selfish mistakes we'll throw $ at you so you can make more junk. Fact is the U.S. auto manufacturers have spend their $ on armies of lawyers, special interest groups, & lobbyists bending the ears of politicians in Washington for not years, but DECADES thus we'd end up driving their highly profitable, sqweaky, creaky, gas guzzling junk built on truck platforms.

So now we're supposed to feel sorry for the idiots that run these companies & give them a big Christmas Gift??? Get real.

]

BUYout, not bailout!

A corporation wants the government's help? Sure, but now it's owned by the people.

Isn't companies being paid by government money a sign of socialism?

Maybe it's a little late to be entering this discussion, but let's look at the big picture here, bankruptcy is not the end of the world. It is designed to fix problems EXACTLY like this one. Look at the airlines that have had to declare bankruptcy. Yes, you may not get your peanuts or your free can carbonated high fructose corn syrup (soda) - but big picture, almost all of those companies are still alive and paying employees.
Bankruptcy is designed to help people with a spending problem get themselves out of trouble. On a personal level, like you or I would see, this means spending way to much money on credit that in the end you can't pay off - the problem is that with the big 3, it was a couple of people spending extra billions of dollars that they didn't have because they didn't know the difference and walk away with a couple million dollar paycheck anyways.
The idea of bankruptcy is to fix this problem, Not to destroy the company so it will never exist again. Bankruptcy reorganizes the company, rids the company of these neanderthals that were so called "managing" the company with no systems of check in place, and restarts the company holding every single person responsible for their actions.

Yes the word is scary, but companies come out of a bankruptcy in a far greater position economically than they went in.

Their is no way these companies can work out of this debt. The options are to give these companies just enough money to keep them afloat for the next 5 years and then have this problem all over again - or - strip them down, release them from all contracts (union, production, etc that they can in no way uphold), oust the management that got them into this problem, and actually give them an opportunity to rebuild, to do R&D, and in 10 years have a US auto industry that people are actually proud of, instead of obligated too.

People on unemployment November 2008: 4 Million

People on unemployment when one of the Big 3 goes under: 6 Milllion

You're going to pay for this however you look at it. The question is how you want to pay and how many people you want to hurt in the process?

You don't refuse to put out a fire because the building was poorly constructed. You put out the fire, save the people, and figure out how to extract the cost from those responsible afterwards.

Same thing here. Efforts focused on ensuring this doesn't happen again and seeing those responsible make things right will do more for this country than "let them burn" comments and jokes.

Were blowing off $10 billion a month in Iraq, yet have trouble coming up with $15 billion for American car companies. What a disgrace.

you know nothing of the quality or engineering that goes into an american made automobile.
all you know is what you've been force fed thru the internet/media/friends who dont know anything.
do some real research and investigation and next time you wont look like a doofus.

thanks for your support and american pride.
i'm sure it'll help us all get out of the recession faster.

You guys are obnoxious. Unions aren't the problem, it's labor relations. It's the way companies AND unions are run.

On the side of unions, many of them seem to be run like corporations, more interested in increasing their market share (membership) than really protecting and improving their members' jobs. For example, I am a member of the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers) - a year or two ago, there was a posting on the union bulletin board about either a Firestone or Bridgestone (forget which) tire factory being unionized under the IBEW. Why a tire manufacturing plant was unionized by the IBEW is beyond me. But regardless, many unions will do this... they rush out to any opportunity to increase their membership and bring in more dues.

In the case of the Big 3 and the UAW, the UAW has already agreed to make concessions to the Big 3 to help them pull through. This is a big deal. Thanks to the bean counters in corporate America, unions have to fight tooth and nail to share in the prosperity and see modest increases in benefits when times are good, so they are understandably reluctant to give up benefits when things are looking bleak - they probably won't get them back.

This country needs a revolution in labor relations. Partnerships between companies and unions should be a game of give and take, not entrenchment. If workers were to share more equally in the prosperity of the company when times were good, the well being of the company would be at the front of every worker's mind, and they would be more willing to make concessions to help the company when times were tough. And, in the long run, the company may just save money and be more agile.

The UAW needs to make concessions. And they have already agreed that they will make concessions. Some of their benefits are pretty outlandish (for example, paying idol workers), and need to go. But in example, the Big 3 need to be willing to make concessions to the UAW when things pick back up. Likely the UAW will never see benefits like they currently get - those were negotiated in a different era, when the Big 3 could afford those kinds of costs.

Now, to the content of the actual posting - the quality of the product that comes out of the Big 3 is just fine. What they have is an image problem. In the past, some of their product has been of questionable quality, and unfortunately the specter of shitty cars remains. In additional, thanks to the calamity in the financial sector, Americans can not buy a car - be it from the "Big 3" or "Foreign" makers. Toyota's sales numbers are absolutely dismal as well, and we may soon be hearing from them.

And finally about the ramp up in SUV production. I would be curious if somebody could show who controlled the demand in the US auto industry. Was it the consumer who went out and bought the big trucks and SUVs, or were they marketed and sold the big trucks and SUVs because that's where the profit is?

@Patrick

So because over the past 8 years Detroit hasn't been able to unscrew itself. I, a resident of Florida, have to pay for you and your leader's (management) screw ups? Would you bail out my company if it were run by a bunch of retards? Would you?

To add to that, i dont buy american. So its that same problem for you as it would be for me. You dont buy my companies products because we are local to FL. So why would you ever want to bail me out to continue to offer shitty products to FL?

It may be the sentiment of the rest of the country but that is simply because the rest of the country is un-informed about the situation. This is not a bailout. It is a LOAN. In case you are not familiar with the concept, a LOAN is something you pay back and the automotive company's will pay the tax payers back. This is not like the BAILOUT that the financial industry is getting. Lets compare here;

Automotive;
$15 Billion Loan so that MILLIONS of workers in ALL 50 states can keep their jobs.
The automotives made some VERY bad choices but were well on their way to fixing them when the bottom dropped out of the economy. They need help getting through this tough time so they can restructure, become profitable and pay the money back!!!

Taxpayers get their money back and jobs saved.

Financial
$700 Billion in FREE MONEY. No regulation NO STRINGS ATTACHED. They don't even have to put the money back in circulation. They just get it. AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO PAY IT BACK!!!! The worst part. THEY started this whole problem. Their greedy un-regulated circus style loans killed the economy and they get $700 Billion in free money as a reward.

You don't have to like the Auto Industry but NEVER claim they are getting a Bailout. Its a loan to help people. Get the full story before you complain.

not to offend people but most of the people that worked for the big three and are now unemployed didn't have a large set of job skills. when you get paid anywhere from $10 to >$20/hr when minimum wage was $5.15 (couple years ago) you need to be responsible with your money and invest/save some of it for a rainy day. I've heard arguments about how so and so's relative can't pay their house, car, and boat payment now because gm laid them off and now they have no job which might have something to do with a lack of formal education beyond high school. That's just irresponsible for anyone let alone grown adults.

30-40mpg is rubbish. We now have the technology and access to the mass produced technologies to produce cars with well over 50mpg and with more power than any of your 2 story pickup trucks. go to youtube and search for "tzero viper" and watch the first couple videos. Electric cars can amazingly powerful now.

Our vehicles are very very wasteful one thing is that the engines are designed to provide ample power to accelerate. Because joe the plumber really needs 0-60 in 6 seconds right? With a series hybrid you can have a very small engine with just enough power to cruise to produce the electricity and use a battery bank for acceleration. This system drastically improves fuel economy by on upwards of 50% for most vehicles, some even more. Until we get a high capacity storage medium for electricity we rely on some form of combustion but there is plenty of room to grow now without sacrificing even a bit of power and most of the time ending up with even more power, especially with the 0-60 numbers.

Detroit died because of UAW greed and health care costs. In the south auto workers w/ just a high school diploma make 22-25/hr while in Detroit they demand $60-70. You guys shot yourself in the foot.

@patrick thomas

There's not a fixed number of jobs in the world. If the big three go out of business, those workers will be able to find jobs at another company. Especially since they have valuable skills. And the easy credit may have made it so you had a job for another couple months but it is putting the rest of the country into a depression. There are always trade offs.

If the author of this ad wasn't a total ToyoHonda fanboy, he would know that most new vehicles made by Ford and GM easily perform with the best in any regard. (Chrysler, on the other hand, deserves all of the wrath it can get.)

Malibu = 33 mpg, Accord = 31 mpg, Camry = 31 mpg
Cobalt = 37 mpg, Civic = 36 mpg, Corolla = 35 mpg
Silverado = 21 mpg, Ridgeline = 21 mpg, Tundra = 18 mpg (notice that the hideous and car-based Ridgeline with a V6 can't even out-mileage the Silverado with the 5.3 V8)

The Enclave, CTS, and G8 are all easily best in class as well. Malibu won the JD Power award for best initial quality this year. Any reliability site besides the biased Consumer Reports will show very little to no difference in reliability for recent model cars. Consumer Reports, by the way, takes data from subscribers, which is not a good sample of the general buying public and are biased in favor of the foreign makes, BECAUSE of CR's bias towards them. And even still, they said in their most recent edition that ALL Ford makes have matched the Japanese for long-term quality.

Not only are you spewing information that's wrong. It almost seems like you WANT another 3-10 million jobs lost.

We still have a fighting chance against this bailout, write you elected officials and let them know you oppose this measure.

http://www.capwiz.com/freedomworks/issues/alert/?alertid=12215391

A car is like any other commodity, If you went to the grocery store and saw UAW Bread for $25.00 a loaf, and knew you were also paying 95% of a bakers wage that was laid off due to the invention of the oven, would you buy it?

First, Congress and the White House needs to formulate a real energy policy. European governments have one that taxes gasoline and encourages smaller more fuel efficient cars. I'm not suggesting the taxes be as high as in Europe but our gasoline taxes are way too low.

The tax write off for SUVs(as trucks) skewered the market and overly weighted the management and marketing of the Big Three.They tried to make everything look like SUVs. Get rid of the tax break and the market will shift to sleeker more aerodynamic and fuel efficient vehicles instead of the bricks on wheels we have now.

Reinvigorate our cities. You can't have 300 million people driving 50 miles to work every day plus 15 miles to buy a quart of milk. We need communities where people can walk and use public transport. This would have the added benefit of reducing those expanding waistlines, improved health and lower overall health care cost.

I'm an environmentalist, and left-leaning, but we have to realize that the fundamentals of our economy rely on the following:
Everything works much better when wrong decisions are punished and good decisions make you rich.

The problem with any of these types of bailouts is that it punishes people who make good decisions (e.g. home owners who decided not to take equity out of their house because they knew they couldn't afford it, or shareholders who moved their stock to companies they thought were making better long-term decisions), and transfers money to people who make poor decisions.

Here's a good WSJ article talking about the original bank bailout. The same logic applies to the auto bailout. Even if it's structured as a bridge loan, it's still rewarding poor decisions.

Wow. That is an incredibly naive statement. I'm speechless. Welcome to my black-list.

You gotta admit, folks, this ad, intended as sarcastic and ironic humor, hits several nails on the head. The SUV and the Hummer (is that even an American make of car?) are proof-postive that Detroit has been living its own version of Reality TV for years. "Hey look, our cars are selling less and less, even as foreign cars are doing better and better. Hey look, there's all this talk about global weather change and fluorocarbons contributing to that change. Hey look, let's just stay in our aluminum and fiberglass-reinforced castles and make the same old cars year and after year then fly to DC in our personal jets and beg for public money that we couldn't get from the populace by selling relevant product. But we did have some nifty coffee holders, GPAs and stereo systems, didn't we?" One wonders if the bail- out will change anything, as even rich kids who are always pampered by their parents when the going gets tough rarely change their stripes or improve. They just ask for help the next time around. Meanwhile, our poor public schools deteriorate and our highways degrade and the arts aren't funded and we sell off more parklands for oil drilling. At least we'll have nice cars to drive around in our wasteland!

I'm an environmentalist, and left-leaning, but we have to realize that the fundamentals of our economy rely on the following:
Everything works much better when wrong decisions are punished and good decisions make you rich.

The problem with any of these types of bailouts is that it punishes people who make good decisions (e.g. home owners who decided not to take equity out of their house because they knew they couldn't afford it, or shareholders who moved their stock to companies they thought were making better long-term decisions), and transfers money to people who make poor decisions.

Here's a good WSJ article talking about the original bank bailout. The same logic applies to the auto bailout. Even if it's structured as a bridge loan, it's still rewarding poor decisions.

It's unfortunate how blind and ignorant most Americans are about this subject. Before you go out making wild statements about all of the American auto companies, do some research first.

It's amazing to me how the financial district was BAILED OUT of the credit mess and there was barely a flinch when they handed over $500 billion (which isn't being accurately tracked) to do whatever with. Now, when the automotive industry, who accounts for 1 in every 5 jobs in America (directly or indirectly), asks for a loan or $35 billion of *conditional* money, everyone gets all excited.

The quality vehicles in America are being built by American car companies too, but most people don't want to believe that. Do some research on Ford Motor Company, and you'll find that they have more 5-star crash ratings than any other car company. Their quality ratings are as good, if not better, than Toyota or Honda. And, Ford offers more Hybrid vehicles than any other auto company.

The picture is funny but only for amusment purposes.

I agree with the poster who said that the Big 3 build what the customer demanded in the USA. Look a the size of cars and trucks from the imports. They are rapidly trying to catch up in size, power, and "low" fuel economy.

I have a 1997 Saturn 1.9L 5spd car that is getting between 38 and 43 mpg in mixed driving at 115k on the clock. It is an outright lie to say the Big 3 can not or do not make a fuel efficient car. The real problem is that the consumer (USA population) has the luxury of changing their mind on what they "want" overnight. Automaker execs should have at least seen it coming though.... That is why they get paid the big money (presumably).

Ah yes, that evil biased Consumer Reports! Look, even if domestic cars are better quality than they have been in the past (and that's a big "if"), the perception lingers because their cars were really, really shitty for quite some time. That's what happens when you make a shitty product that costs a lot of money--people remember. Fool me twice, can't get fooled again.

uhm, I happen to own 2 fords and I live in europe...and I'm surprised by how reliable they both are...

it's one of the best fake ads I've ever seen

Ah the big three...

As a lifelong (until recently) resident of Mid-Michigan...I'm sensitive to the effect of the big three...

And i've noticed several things regarding the big three...

First..workers are overpaid considerably in Michigan comparatively with the industry standards...If Mcdonald's paid all of its employees $20/hour, they too would see a huge decrease in profits.

Secondly...The big three suppress the technology to bring forth green vehicles...of course in cahoots with the oil industry.... Interesting fact--the original model T built by Henry Ford ran on HEMP Biofuel.

Thirdly--Why would they want to be a more prosperous company when every 5-10 years the fed cuts these companies a big ole check and they guys running this stuff are making bank off each check cut to their company.

Let them fail--we as a country need to embrace the technology and resources we've had for decades and actually bring them into the mainstream economy.

Who will be the next Henry Ford? You? Me?

Kick those bastards out of Michigan, get hemp legalized for fuel, plastics, fabrics, food, concrete, and much more.. become the state leading in the green revolution!

Imagine in the near future, Michigan farmers making millions off the crop that is used to build nearly ever part of the new vehicles that Michigan's autoworkers are now building. The Great Lakes State couldn't be more perfect of a place to start saying no to the toxic oil industry and hello to all things natural!

Big 3 missed an incredible op. I would have loved to see a convoy of cars travel to the capital and show how humble and proud they could be. But instead they showed up in private jets. Sorry but.....no respect left for those guys.

GET A LIFE! Sheesh!

This ad is imaginative and HYSTERICAL ; )

I'm from good ole' Detroit and have seen first-hand the industrial I-don't-Carelessness of the Automakers, so there's not much you can tell me about it that would shock me.

As for the Bail-out (THAT is EXACTLY what it is), this is not the first time the 'Big 3' have done this crap. They pulled the same thing back in the '70's, building model year after model year of highway boats that nobody wanted nor could afford and left the 'Thrift' market to Japan. Stupid is as Stupid does!

So why are the 'Big 3' asking to be bailed-out? Well, let's see... they weren't begging Congress before the Wallstreet geniuses were given free money; guess they smelled a hand-out and decided to get their cut. Sure, they need it like I need my own private Lear Jet! Idiots! If you're gonna play the 'poor little rich mogul' routine, it's probably smart to at least park it out of sight. But, then, that's just one more reason not to bail these fools out.

RE: Quality of domestic vehicles

http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/dependability-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-#page-anchor

Actually K Brown's comments are not naive. What is needed is for us to totally re-examine our lifestyle. "Fixing" the "economy" by tweaking some small segment is only a bandaid.

We need to radically review our economic structure and just why it is that "credit" is the basis of our economy (debt is good). Look at any number of excellent videos on the Federal Reserve Central Banking System. The originators of the country tried to avoid having one, Andrew Jackson destroyed the central bank that got set up anyway, and it ended up being reinstated anyway. It's been behind corporate manipulation for decades, wars (those are wonderful if you want to produce machines, destroy them and then produce them again) and the wage enslavement of each one of us.

The corporations are motivated only by Maximum Profit Motive for stock holders. They want to pay as little as possible to produce goods that people think they want (think advertising dollars) and to produce and sell them over and over again.

We cover all this with "patriotism" that our system is the best in the world, denying all evidence to the contrary. If you ever get out of this country you find wonderful, stable governments that fund good health care, monitor their corporations (before there's a meltdown), have some notion of "common good," and where there are good qualities of life. Where there is exploitation and rampant profit motive, a brutal survival strategy exists which rapidly degrades a culture and a country into a failed state.

We might not sink that far, but we certainly are on our way to a monetary devaluation. That's where the people in the know shift their money to another currency and then buy back cheaper dollars and make a big profit. Who's in control? The money guys - the same ones who got $500BL without strings or accountability. The game has not changed in centuries and those who don't study the history of banking, are doomed this time also.

This is much bigger than our auto makers. Nice diversion. Capitalism, as it's done now, with an "every person for them self" Maximum Profit Motive kind of mentality will always fail. It's time we found out how others do it, who's manipulating us and make it work for everyone. It's the only chance we have.

when is the public going to arrive at the fact that fuel cell technology for autos is a sham. maybe someday, but not tomorrow, or any time in the near future. what a friggin waste of time and resources, not to mention advertising. gm"s sale of nickel metal hydride battery technology patents to chevron, is almost criminal. they've intentionally tied their own hands, rather than allow a substantial amount of propulsion be powered by electric systems. let the big oil companies invest in the big three, they've been supporting big oil from the beginning.

Susan Justice and K Brown are barking up the right tree. Check out Zeitgeist and Zeitgeist Addendum for both a disturbing look at the banking interests that control the Fed and our lives as wage slaves as well as a very exciting look at a different way to do things: the Venus Project.

"We drove all the cars, and decided the Malibu LS was the best deal.... I usually get over 40 mpg in this car, and never less than 35."

Liar. Fuel economy quoted on Chevy's own site states: "24 MPG city / 32 MPG highway" how are you never getting less mpg then the manufacturer says is the maximum mpg?

"My '94 Buick Roadmaster is getting roughly 24mpg. It's a boat. a loaded Honda Civic gets 26"

More Lies. '94 Buick Roadmaster 17 MPG city / 25 MPG highway and 1994 Civic 29 MPG city / 35 MPG highway (there are multiple versions of the Civic so I'm quoting the worst mpg values here, the best would be 34 MPG city / 40 MPG highway).

Patrick, the big problem is that car companies have done very poorly in creating automobiles that reflect what drivers are looking for when purchasing a new vehicle. Instead of changing their designs to fit consumer desires, they continued to produce cars that wouldn't sell, thus resulting in less profit, thus resulting in subsequent downsizing, etc. The main problem with a consumption based society/economy is that its success lies in consumers continually buying products, which means continually producing them. When consumers do not buy however, those companies make less money, produce less, which results in less jobs, which results in less people having less money to spend on consumer goods.

Mao's revenge, - a self-regenerating army of country girls in their prime, manning Chinese factories for 55 cents an hour, and working 12 hour shifts, 7 days a week, poop in floor slot toilets, sleep on 3'x6' mats on the floor in the factory, eat at the in-factory cafeteria, wear company uniforms 24 hours a day, color coded to indicate their departments, return to the peasant farms whence they came when burned out, pensionless and no economic burden to anyone, to die an early and convenient death! and have been taught by General Motors U.S. how to build Buick LeSabres and a Chevette like car called the Cherry! They will take a job from your neighborhood soon! They have no cost to commute! - the world is a changing place, and not all for the good - the neo cons and Uber-rich of America are tired of your (very expensive) sort, and prefer her (very cheap) sort! as far as they are concerned, don't you kiss your sad ass goodbye, just f##k off and die! Every time GM announces a lay-off, the stock goes up! If my family fortune was getting put down on a bet, the girls from China would win every time! The new "global market" and "Free Trade" notions are non-protectionist! and commie countries, like dictatorships simply do not give a damn! The docks at Shanghai are loaded and and waiting for shipping instructions, These cars will be retailed at a Walmart near you soon for $6000.00 a copy!

There are a lot of good American made cars.
If American made cars were the only cars Americans could buy
then Americans would have the best cars in the world.

thanks from tony

I just cant believe how dumb the top management of the big three are .....when the whole world was looking towards fuel economy years ago...these stupid companies kept rolling out fuel Guzzlers and they still are even though people are not buying them....

i think all cars should be destroyed and then run the entire earth on solar power. easier said than done, i know. but the only reason we don't use solar power as much is because its so expensive, but if we didn't spend all our money on gas transportation for personal use, mass cargo transportation and all this other nonsense crap then we would be able to afford it.

the sun will ultimately save this planet by burning us all alive

The foreign car companies are only in business because their countries are subsidizing them. How nice of the American public to purchase from them and keep them going while screaming that the American companies should not be helped. Way to help foreign counties, right wingers!

i wanna go green but going Green is too expensive and the only thing i can afford is to recycle

Bottem line: The North American Product is undesirable, simply review the sales fiqures over the last 20 years. You will see an intersting trend.....America should stay America, but the current, and past equation (Ford, GM, Chrysler) is inherantly flawed - and the end of near.

it's sad to see such established car makers with a history of great engineering facing such hard times.

Isn't it interesting that the federal government (Supreme Court) ruled in favor of GM, Ford, Toyota, Honda etc... to strike down the California law requiring zero tailpipe emission automobiles. GM then recovered all it's electric cars and crushed them. What goes around, comes around. As for me, I am a raving democratic socialist/communist. It is one thing for government and the auto industry to see the error in their ways. It is quite another to respond in kind. Let the government support the domestic auto industry. The rest of the world is doing the same for their industries which exports those products to us. At the same time "We The People" have to keep our collective foot in their butts to make sure they produce and develop plenty of green automobiles. As long as Bernanke is running the printing press, how about a green energy infrastructure to power our places of work, transportation and homes. The dividends such an investment would pay are immeasurably enormous.

We should stop behaving like superstitious caveman.The future is no longer completely unknown. It is what we make it!

I found this hilarious, especially since i own a Subaru Impreza WRX.

I know this is incredibly late as a comment, but I find all these people posting defending the big 3 quite amusing. Business is harsh. When you fail you get exactly what you deserve. The big 3 failed and are getting what they deserve. And fact of the matter is there is plenty of evidence to support that so called "American" cars are not competitive with so called "foreign" cars (see consumer reports for a start, look at award winning vehicles for engineering, recall rates, etc). The truth is the big 3 produce garbage and have for some time (oh sure they occasionally get a winner, but one shining moment does not make a successful company). It is sad to see three big companies go down, but again, they deserve it. And I am not so polite as the others about placing the blame completely on management. The greedy workers of the UAW, the common blue collar worker, is just as guilty. They produced trash with a ton of defects that resulted in recall after recall and the need to offer huge incentives to convince consumers to buy the product they produced. The big 3's workers are just as guilty for allowing this to happen. No pride in producing good quality products leads to just collecting a paycheck and thinking somehow you've been treated unfairly by the market when your job goes belly up. Management alone can not take the blame for the big 3's failures. The entire corporate culture of these companies deserves what is happening. I can only hope that we as Americans have the guts to let this play out the way it should in the long run (if not this time) - in a free market companies are allowed to fail - it's their right in fact. I shouldn't have to pay to make sure a bunch of less than quality minded people keep their overpriced job in Detroit. Industries change, places dry up, get over it, get retrained on something and move on. Detroit is dead (or at least it should be). For now it looks like the American people are going to fall for this poor blue collar worker crap, so the only real satisfaction I'll have when all this is done is that I will still be driving my made in America by American workers, 100% problem free since purchase in 2000 Toyota. So lets call this what it really is, because there is nothing inherently more American about the big 3 than there is about Toyota, Honda, or many of the others - drop the patriotic argument - get to the facts - the big three and every worker who is part of them from management down to the line worker deserve what they have earned completely - really this is 3 big companies trying to scream that somehow they deserve special protection and using an emotional argument to create an appeal - save the blue collar American job! Thank you. I think I will save the blue collar American job by buying a Toyota or Honda again next time. I will not however waste my hard earned money on junk from Detroit.

New GM's are terrible compared to the 50's-90's. The quality just isn't there anymore. I think it won't be long until the term "big three" will refer to Honda, Toyota and Nissan. The only reason Ford isn't asking for a bailout (yet) is their selling of Land Rover and Jaguar before things got really ugly. Dodge, when they were in partnership with Daimler built some impressive vehicles, now that the partnership is over and Dodge plans to partner up with Fiat, (notorious for poor quality), I'm sure the future there will soon be bleak as well.

I hope that GM and Dodge decide to restructure as a single entity, take the best from both camps and start to build competitive cars and trucks again. Picture a Cummins Diesel with an Allison transmission, it works in rigs and rv's, would be amazing in a pickup.