Greenpeace Activists Detain Palm Oil Tanker: Where Do Readers Stand on Direct Action?

"Direct action" protests like this only give environmentalists a reputation for being hostile, anti-business, etc. I believe in nonviolent civil disobedience, but I don't think chaining oneself to a tanker is going to accomplish anything good.

Personal responsibility demands action when you witness a crime being committed. Maybe they want Paul Watson back.

Answers will be recorded for national security purposes and added to your file. Thanks for your cooperation!

Think of the recent coverage and opinion of Islam as formed by the actions of a few radical extremists.

Really the only way to stop this type of stuff from going on is to place governmental regulation on it; protesting and chaining oneself to a ship won't do any good at all. All that this protest really indicates is that there are concerned people who oppose the palm oil trade. That's not gonna stop the entrepreneurs from conducting their environmentally harmful business, since business is all about legality and not necessarily ethics (unfortunately).

Until people get off the palm oil hatred and get on the real issue - deforestation, they will get nowhere.

we need multiple approaches to move us in the right direction, including direct action and legislation. much of the recent progress we have made towards a healthy society has been due to direct action. go greenpeace!

Should read:
"Activists fly to Indonesia (using lots of Jet Fuel), drive to port (using gasoline), and block tanker with outboard motor driven small craft (using more gasoline) to protest use of palm oil to feed-the-need for more oil." Hypocritical anybody?
Must be nice to live in one of those little worlds where you can tell others what they should do and not have to make any sacrifice yourself.
On the far left we have youngsters that want us to give up everything and live a pastural life they couldn't even tolerate. On the far right we have the oldsters who think we can't have anything if we give up oil. Stan Ovinisky (God bless his soul) said if you don't like the way things are then pick up some tools and change it. Me? I'm no saint, but I am a techno-optimist in the middle. I drive a Prius. I'm saving for an E-REV. Probably an Aptera, GM Volt, or even an XH-150 if Trinity ever finds a way to produce them commercially. Clearly the world doesn't need oil for transport. Clearly E-REVs and BEVs will be more economical in the not too distant future. ...just the way the Prius has gone from cash looser to cash cow product, so to too will E-REVs and BEVs become more economical as economies of scale are acheived. Go out there and help bring in the coming change sooner. Protesting that way is a waste of time and resources.
Want to save the world, then offer a way you can, not a way you can't. Find a better way for us to want to live.

I'm conflicted, I support the core of their ideals... Yet many of the things they do are annoying at best, especially when they get out of hand. I think I remember them at a oil pumping facility or oil refinery and they trespassed, hung banners, etc. and then they screamed 'oh no we're getting shot at!'

... they were in a foreign country, trespassing on private property (much of which was explosive I'm sure) and people KNOW what they do, etc. etc. etc. and they wonder why their getting shot at?

When someone from greenpeace comes to me asking for money the first thing I think is '... yay sponsor them to do that crap again...' which is unfortunate since I know most of the time they really do good.

I guess in the end, I'm against it, it does give them a bad name, a bad reputation, and in many cases all it does is delay a shipment, and cause the wider public not to think about it, but think of them as psychos.

Yeah, these guys were hypocrites, and they kinda missed the whole point (someone brought up deforestation), but...

Direct action is the only way to get anything done. Asking for government regulation is just like praying to Jesus for a new bike: you're appealing to a higher power which has no reason to listen. Voting is an act of apathy; it accomplishes nothing.

"Answers will be recorded for national security purposes and added to your file. Thanks for your cooperation!"

Sincerely,
George W. Bush

"Must be nice to live in one of those little worlds where you can tell others what they should do and not have to make any sacrifice yourself." -mds

Sacrifices? You mean like risking your life to take over an oil tanker?

Oh, no, you mean "sacrifices" like driving your Prius to the bank so that you can save up for a plug-in hybrid.

Yeah, it MUST be nice.

Actually, you guys should learn your history. Direct action is more effective than any 'green consumerism' could ever be.

Here are a breif list of things accomplished by direct action in the united states alone.

1. Womens right to vote.
2. The End of child labor.
3. The 40 hour work week.
4. The Minimum Wage.
5. The Clean Air Act.
6. The Clean Water Act.
7. The Civil Rights Act of 1964.
8. The end of the Vietnam war (indirectly).
9. The International Whaling Commission (which banned whaling.)
10. The Ban On cfc's.
11. The Nuclear Test Ban Treaty (indirectly).
12. A reduction in Old Growth Clear Cutting.
13. The End of Jim Crow.
14. The End of segregation.

and
Thousands of smaller victory's too numerous to name.....

Their statement says,

"Greenpeace believes that increasing productivity on existing palm oil plantations is the solution to increased global demand".

It does not say,

"Greenpeace believes that chaining people to anchor chains is the solution to increased global demand".

So increase productivity on plantations instead of chaining yourselves to anchor chains!!!

I am fine with direct action so long as people don't mind direct action being returned. Ask the French how well direct action against Greenpeace has been.

If you are going to board a ship with the intent purpose of controlling it against the wishes of its crew, that is called high jacking. For those that want to jump on me saying that force was not needed, then the protesters should leave as soon as they are told to make is a non-violent confrontation. But they don't, so they have elevated to the use of force to remove the person.

Maybe the companies that are dealing with these folks should take direct action against the protesters... maybe that will make it more newsworthy. Hire private investigators to watch their every move like they are the paparazzi or something. Position these protestors so that they become celebrities so that they can then broadcast their lives for the supermarket tabloids until they derail and come crashing down. Interviews with old girlfriends, arrest records, etc...

It could be the next great reality show on FOX! "So you want to be a protestor!"

Ok, I am being slightly silly here, but it does beg the question: What if the companies begin direct action back?

-Lego

Draz has an interesting point

GreenPeace et al DO raise a lot (I mean a LOT) of money.

Other than jetting around to do really stupid PR stunts and paying themselves REALY big salsries

What do they do that is positive? Something that makes a difference?

Search me, I have yet to hear of one thing positive (plant trees, build water filters, etc) that these Enviros have actually done - I must have missed the memo.....

@ proscriptus

If Greenpeace wanted Paul Watson back they'd start by helping him in his efforts to stop Japanese whaling rather than refusing to share information.

How many ways are there to bring attention to a problem so little mentioned in the media? How long are you willing to wait for GOVERNMENTS to take the necessary action to stop deforestation to grow palm oil?

"Think of the recent coverage and opinion of Islam as formed by the actions of a few radical extremists."
I think you're ignoring the racism involved with this prejudice.

"Stan Ovinisky (God bless his soul) said if you don't like the way things are then pick up some tools and change it."
That's exactly what these activists did.
P.S. Battery aside, a Prius is only a fraction "greener" than normal cars. Half the pollution in a car is there before anyone buys it.
"Must be nice to live in one of those little worlds where you can tell others what they should do and not have to make any sacrifice yourself." -- Frankly, this is hilarious coming from someone who congratulates his/her self for DRIVING a Prius.

"Other than jetting around to do really stupid PR stunts and paying themselves REALY big salsries"
I think you mean "SALARIES." And, no, folks in Green Peace don't make a lot of money. A large portion of them are volunteers. Why the hell would you think they make a lot of money?

@ Lego,

Another direct action that the captain could have taken is just pulling anchor and crushing them.

I don't have a problem with direct action. As Carl stated, many major events in American history resulted from activism. (He left out the Boston Tea Party, and of course the Revolutionary War.) If you are going to use that approach, however, you better believe that the cause is worth your life. I don't believe that this situation is worth anyones life. Unfortunately many protestors are kids that think they are invincible. I realize that different people have different values, but in my opinion this situation isn't worth a life.

I voted for protest no action over protest any action because the choice was too absolute. Chaining yourself to an anchor is fine but damaging property or putting people in danger is not fine. The key to winning hearts and minds is to have a better idea. If you can prove that palm oil can be grown more efficiently, thus decreasing expansion, the facts have to get out with the story. This is key.

On another note, I am sick of the seal hunt protests. In terms of what is really going on, it's fluff. Why focus energy on a sustainable hunt? Making fur wearers social pariahs is a plenty effective strategy. What we really need to get serious about making the poster child of the movement is not baby seals but the ocean itself. We need many more zones where there is no fishing at all. We need the giant fishing ships to stay in port. I have stopped eating any wild seafood. I loved sushi but its not worth destroying an ocean to get it. Who's with me?

It was only last year that Al Gore wondered publicly when young people were going to start chaining themselves to bulldozers to stop coal-fired power stations being built, so I dunno - do you think it's the kind of civil disobedience he's talking about?

Bones,
Did I say I was making sacrifices? Nope. Said "I'm no saint." They risk their lives foolishly. imo
I can afford a Prius. Many Cannot. There are other more positive contributions that could be made. What about just helping them pioneer better agricultural practices? What about helping them redirect to jatropha growing? No, not as easy, not as fun, not as glorious. More honest.

Carl,
Good point ...13 of them. Ouch! You win. I still say in this case protesting is a waste, when there are many solutions to this problem. Biggest problem is getting the solutions out there fast enough.
13, not 14? When younger, I help raise money for green peace to save the whales. I realize now, it was really the oil companies and their production of petro-chemical substitutes to whale oil that had the greatest impact to bring whaling to an end.

Johnny,
Glad you could see the humor. Humor is good. I do congratulate myself. It was only a small economic sacrifice. Saving the extra cash to buy gas for cheaper ICE would have been the more cost effective decision. You are wrong about two things:
1. They did not pick up any tools to work on solutions. This protest makes as much sense as a small child's tantrum. Put up a wind mill, a solar panel, ride a bike, buy an HEV, E-REV, or BEV, build a methane plant, plant some jatropha plants, genetically modify the palm plants to produce more oil, figure out how to grow and harvest "deisel trees" without destroying the forest, bring a better battery to the market, .... enough examples?
2. The Prius is part of the evolutionary path to all-electric transportation. I purchased mine when GM kept saying there was no market. Now there's a market. I had good company. Over 50% of the worlds oil is used cars and light trucks. Evolutionary path looks like this:
ICE -> HEV -> E-REV -> EV (BEV)
This is happening now. I have only done a pissant small part. Others have done a great deal more. I am in their debt. It is going to have a huge world impact.

Aptera (2 person E-REV)
120 miles all-electric, 130 mpg hybrid mode after

GM Volt (4 person E-REV)
50 miles all-electric, 50 mpg after that

Trinity XH-150 (prototype SUV E-REV)
50 miles all-electric, 50 mpg after that

78% of USA drivers travel E-REVs will have a huge gas reduction impact AND will continue improvements in batteries, electric motors, and drive lines until full BEVs make sense even in the USA.
(Just as HEVs have been causing enough battery, etc. improvements so E-REVs are now possible.)

Translation: Need less palm oil.

Tell a man not to eat and he starves.
Show a man how to grow fish in a pond...

Sorry,
"78% of USA drivers travel" was supposed to be
"78% of USA drivers travel less than 40 miles per day"

Johnny,
Think I missed part of your point. Maybe you getting at the dirty manufacturing of the NiMH batteries used in the Prius. It was not immediately clear. Yes, I've read about this problem. Not good. Did you know the USA Navy's first nuclear submarine, the Nautilus, was one of the noisiest? Nuclear wasn't quietier than the deisel-electric like it was supposed to be at first. Took some time. Sometimes new technology has growing pains. My point about reducing oil consumption by moving toward electric transport still stands.
Actually, you're a genius! That's the answer! These greenpeace protesters should instead dedicate their lives to cleaner manufacturing of the batteries we need for transportation. Cool!

Wow! Thanks for using Greenpeace as the example for this post. Very cool!

I've personally seen how effective direct action can be time and time again. In Europe, the Brent Spar is probably our most famous example of a campaign victory where direct action played a central role. The Probo Koala is a more recent example where direct action probably saved lives.

This year, Al Gore called for people to use civil disobedience to block the construction of coal plants. And a UK court ruled that doing so can even be legitimate from a legal perspective (see this Kingsnorth Six story for details).

While I may not always agree with their methods I have witnessed at least one instance where their direct (peaceful) action finally got enough people to notice what was going on.
They started circling on oil tanker in one of our ports with banners, calling the company environmental criminals. At first people concidered them nutjobs. The crew of the ship actually asked the police for help to get rid of them. Press didn't know what to think etc. But they did not quit, just circled the tanker in their pontoon-boat with their banners, taking shifts. So the press started looking up, what was all the fuss about and evidence began to emerge, that the ship in question - the Probo Koala - has indeed been dumping toxic waste in Africa and has caused more than 30 direct deaths among locals and serious healt hazard to thousands. So then suddenly it didn't seem like a fool's errand and things started happening. Local goverment called interpol and forbid the ship to leave the port until the case was investigated, they sent in a team of experts to collect samples for comparison with the African contaminants. The tone in the press and general public made quite a shift also - public realized that these people protesting did not combat hypotermia, starvation and public persecution just out of pure malice - they were actaully on to something. And indeed the case ended with shipping company paying for the clean-up and also several criminal charges for the mis-management of waste.
And they would have gotten away with it too, if there weren't for those meddlesome teenagers...

We see deforestation for the sake of agriculture to be myopic and environmentally disastrous. The locals see this as a living. If there's a market for their product, they'll keep on doing their work. It's too easy to criticize, but it's hard to find a real solution. From what I can see, Greenpeace does too much of the former and not enough of the latter.

"They did not pick up any tools to work on solutions. This protest makes as much sense as a small child's tantrum."
--Indeed, they used their protest as a tool. Tools aren't only things we hold in our hands.

You putting buying a vehicle on par with buying a bike is a little...off at best. There are no clean cars, even if you charge your FULLY electic car with a windmill. What's it MADE OF? Where did it come from? Where does all the crap it's made of go when you're finished with it? Hybrid-electic cars are more of a bandaid on people's wallets and consciences than they are the planet.

"The Prius is part of the evolutionary path to all-electric transportation. "
--Priuses are not a part of an evolution when they still use gas and are still made of the same crap other cars are made of. They are the same old car with slightly better mileage than similarly sized cars and cleaner emissions. So what? If Priuses are a part of any "evolution" they it's a small small step and one that is, frankly, relatively insignificant. Hybrids are for people and companies with a good consciences but who lack the will for real change.

Am I saying that hybrid owners would do better to ride bikes and transit? Yes I am.

One could argue that their job/home is too far or poorly placed for these options. Fair enough. I would reply that these people are putting their comfort and convenience before the planet, which is some might claim Joe SUV does.

Okay, but the plant is not #1 for everyone. That's cool.

So people might do well to stop parading around their ridiculous hybrids like they just really contributed to some magical one-day electric car and not the reality that they are only contributing marginally less to climate change than drivers of "normal" small cars.

Before you ask: No, I don't have a car. And when I sold it, I lived in a rural part of the country without transit and without money, since I lost a lot getting rid of my car. It can be done. And yes, I'm parading my being CAR FREE around But actually making the statement that cars are the problem, that a small class of them is NOT the answer, is consistent with a planet-oriented lifestyle.

Am I saying that cyclists are better people than Prius owners? NO, OF COURSE NOT. But they're doing less for Toyota and Exxon and more for the earth. It's a matter of environmental and social impact, and it's a measurable fact.

I mean, I'm sorry if I sound like a jerk, but no one's car, not even a fully electric one is the answer. What, are they going to be made of: recycled corn plastic, recycled steel? Will they be able to get around without concrete infrastructure? Will they biodegrade at the end? Will they charge via solar power?

The Magic Car that will allow us to save the planet while still maintaining our current lifestyle does not exist, and there is no "evolution" toward it. We might wait decades fooling ourselves while the earth suffers. Or we can get off our asses and change the way we get around.

[Puts away halo...]

"Think I missed part of your point. Maybe you getting at the dirty manufacturing of the NiMH batteries used in the Prius. It was not immediately clear."
--No, I'm talking about all the metal, plastic and glass Priuses are made of. Sorry I wasn't clearer.

"My point about reducing oil consumption by moving toward electric transport still stands."
--Unless you find a car made of non-oil-based plastic, using no gas in the production of and with an infrastructure that doesn't need all that petrol to exist, no it doesn't.

"Actually, you're a genius! That's the answer! These greenpeace protesters should instead dedicate their lives to cleaner manufacturing of the batteries we need for transportation. Cool!"
--Uh, no. That's a very small issue compared with the rest of the trash in a Prius or any other car. Do you think that the emissions/gas issue is the only way that cars kill the planet?

If you're going to resort to name-calling, "genius" is a pretty good one:)

Hey all - Direct action underway now.

One-hundred activists, supported by the Rainbow Warrior, have shut down construction of a E.ON coal power station.

E.ON makes a lot of noise about how "green" they are, but instead of fully investing in real energy solutions (renewables and efficiency) they're building more coal plants. Details and updates here...

E.ON's coal construction brought to a halt

This protest is 100% peaceful and 100% action. A great example of what this thread is about.

GREENPEACE,SEA SHEAPARDS their nothing but pirates and they should get jail