Survey: How Far Should One Go When Protesting?
by Lloyd Alter, Toronto on 06.30.08


For 18 months, protesters have been living in giant oak trees on University grounds in Berkeley. It is against the law to chop down oaks, but the University says that the law does not apply to them because they are a State institution and exempt from City law. As the police started fencing the area to prevent supporters from providing them with food and water, the protesters started throwing human excrement at them.
TreeHugger Kenny thought " this is nothing less than madness indeed. There is a fundamental need for basic civic action of many types in the environmental movement, but this is not one of them. It’s simply drawing undue negative attention that distracts from the real issues while gaining little at all in return." Many of our commenters profoundly disagreed. What do you think?
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You may want to proofread your articles. I am disappointed when I read not just one, but several blatant errors. This is a legitimate news source, is it not?
My opinion on the matter is that I do believe in the protesting, but flinging excrement is obscene and accomplishes nothing positive. That just maligns yourself and not the institution your battling.
LA: I apologize for the typos in the poll. I noticed them as soon as the post, but our survey software does not let us go in and edit after the fact. And I fixed your spelling of excrement.
I honestly don't understand the options. The misspellings seriously make it impossible for me to figure out what each one says. It's probably just a case of the Mondays :p
In this case, I'd say throwing poo was probably out of bounds. I can't really think of any cases in which it would be deemed ok, but I'm sure there's one out there somewhere :p I would've thrown dead tree branches :)
I can't say I'd engage in any fecal fandango, but it's hard to deny the result: after 18 months, this is back on the front pages. I'm left wondering if some other form of resistance to the barriers (from the ground) would have had the same outcome.
In general protest actions that demonize or scapegoat the oppoition are highly counterproductive in the long run. personal attacks an dother sorts of contempt towards others distract and detract from the cause. It can e hard to get young people who want to feel like they're doing something powerful to understan this. The greatest weaknesses in US Progressive/activist approach for the last 40 years has been a tendency to ,unlike King ,Ghandi,Mandela and Tutu,not treat our political opponents with respect. This is one of the major reasons we have so little political power. We have often even treated our only allies in the mainstream,middles class liberals with contempt. This is a losing strategy. When one hears the word political demnstration,and important question to ask is "What is being demnstrated,and to whom?"
An unfortunately cleear example of a group that has not adequetly explored this question is Critical Mass,who believe that by locking traffic with their bicycles they'll convince people to give up thier filthy cars. But what really happens i sthe make themselves targtes for drivers frustrations at being stuck in traffic,increasing animosity between bikes and cars. many commuters have developed hatred for bicyclists. A more effective strategy ,that does address teh question swould e to have a bunch of people in cars block traffic,then have some people on bikes ride by in a relaxed carefree manner,demonstrating that the people are stuck in the cars .
The effective uses of protest has mostly involved leaders,or spokesfolks,the most notable are those listed above,who clearly articulate both the injustice,and the desired policy. without that kind of clear communication protest can easily come across as mere factional venting.And this kind of thing has been very succesfully spun by demagogues in such a way that protesters have often unwittngly strengthened the positions of those they oppose.
I really hope the Berkely tree sitters save the grove,This is not trivial. They have succeeded in getting media attention. But the SF bay area is the most liberal part of the US. It's worth noting that throwing excrement is the most basic tactic in Primate territorial disputes. On that level,semitically,archetypically it's entertaining. As a tactic it's idiotic. Hurts the cause in the long run,hurst the already low credibility of environmentalists in the public discourse. And th epeople who are being thus attacked ,are just trying to do their jobs. Respecting the fact that police etc. are working and trying to supporyt their families makes it much easier to gain mutual respect.communication only happens between equals.
In general old style protests aimed at bringing attention to an issue by making a loud enough noise to get media attention are larlgely inneffective. Esp since the media is almost totally corporate controlled now .Remember the Million Mom March? What lasting impact did it have on policy ? none. Providing alternate apporaches that recognize the needs of one's opponents should be an important part of Activist tactics.The carrot instead of the stick goes along with the idea of having respect for one's opponents. It's much easier to get tings done by motivating people to cooperate than by forcing them to.
This can't work in every situation. Inthe long run ,old fashioned door door grass roots organizing is more effective than protest. current Netroots approaches are goo,ut prbably not as good as face to face.
From everything that I've read it seems that them flinging fecal matter was a last resort in order to keep their supplies coming so that they could continue their protest. No fence, no fecal matter. They wanted to build a fence, what else would you have the protestors do?
In general protest actions that demonize or scapegoat the oppoition are highly counterproductive in the long run. personal attacks an dother sorts of contempt towards others distract and detract from the cause. It can e hard to get young people who want to feel like they're doing something powerful to understan this. The greatest weaknesses in US Progressive/activist approach for the last 40 years has been a tendency to ,unlike King ,Ghandi,Mandela and Tutu,not treat our political opponents with respect. This is one of the major reasons we have so little political power. We have often even treated our only allies in the mainstream,middles class liberals with contempt. This is a losing strategy. When one hears the word political demnstration,and important question to ask is "What is being demnstrated,and to whom?"
An unfortunately cleear example of a group that has not adequetly explored this question is Critical Mass,who believe that by locking traffic with their bicycles they'll convince people to give up thier filthy cars. But what really happens i sthe make themselves targtes for drivers frustrations at being stuck in traffic,increasing animosity between bikes and cars. many commuters have developed hatred for bicyclists. A more effective strategy ,that does address teh question swould e to have a bunch of people in cars block traffic,then have some people on bikes ride by in a relaxed carefree manner,demonstrating that the people are stuck in the cars .
The effective uses of protest has mostly involved leaders,or spokesfolks,the most notable are those listed above,who clearly articulate both the injustice,and the desired policy. without that kind of clear communication protest can easily come across as mere factional venting.And this kind of thing has been very succesfully spun by demagogues in such a way that protesters have often unwittngly strengthened the positions of those they oppose.
I really hope the Berkely tree sitters save the grove,This is not trivial. They have succeeded in getting media attention. But the SF bay area is the most liberal part of the US. It's worth noting that throwing excrement is the most basic tactic in Primate territorial disputes. On that level,semitically,archetypically it's entertaining. As a tactic it's idiotic. Hurts the cause in the long run,hurst the already low credibility of environmentalists in the public discourse. And th epeople who are being thus attacked ,are just trying to do their jobs. Respecting the fact that police etc. are working and trying to supporyt their families makes it much easier to gain mutual respect.communication only happens between equals.
In general old style protests aimed at bringing attention to an issue by making a loud enough noise to get media attention are larlgely inneffective. Esp since the media is almost totally corporate controlled now .Remember the Million Mom March? What lasting impact did it have on policy ? none. Providing alternate apporaches that recognize the needs of one's opponents should be an important part of Activist tactics.The carrot instead of the stick goes along with the idea of having respect for one's opponents. It's much easier to get tings done by motivating people to cooperate than by forcing them to.
This can't work in every situation. Inthe long run ,old fashioned door door grass roots organizing is more effective than protest. current Netroots approaches are goo,ut prbably not as good as face to face.
I live 100 feet from these trees in Berkeley. It is interesting to see the development of this story.
I will have to agree with people who commented already that although this form of protest undoubtedly attracts lots of attention, it is quite unproductive. I would appreciate if the involved treesitters instead spend 560 days of their lives on something that is going to have a far reaching effect and solve bigger problems...
At this point, they are just wasting both - their time and energy
why aren't the citizens of Berkeley out there protesting with them? The article doesn't mention if they are doing so or not.
Normally, I would consider this behavior way out of bounds but living in a neighborhood where giant trees are being mowed down every day to make way for mcmansions, I understand their frustrations perfectly.
Why have democracies not advanced into the 21 Century to meet peoples aspirations and this since the mid. 1800, when every thing we do and how bus is done has totally changed.
There are only about a handful of more advanced Democracies, all on continental Europe and one has been at the top of this list, as the most democratic nation there is and this since the beginning.
People have to have legal petition rights which governments have to deal with and reach consensus, and people must have full constitutional democratic empowerment rights. Of the western nations, the USA, GB, AUS & CND are some of the most backwards, where people have zero say and zero voice in Australia not even a bill of human rights.
Democracy goes far beyond just casting a vote every 4 or 5 years. And the 1800 style adversarial government (two party) systems, just cannot meet today's and the future challenges at which speed things move in a globalised world. - Who runs any bus. on opposition ?? - Consensus is what every nation needs, make that all Nation has real ownership of what every a nation is doing and stop the blame games. This must be by the will of the democratic majority, whilst the minority must be protected. The present opposition style of Government systems are just too easy to be abused, nor accountable, just have a look around the globe. Over the past 40 years, more nations have gone backwards than forwards and some are your totally out of control and the people suffer. By the time the electorate throws-out a government, if they can, it is all too late. Further, the swing of politics, change of governments, costs any nations far too much, just to start it all again and achieve not much. How much better we really could do with all these unnecessary millions of protest/action group dollars spent annually in a nation, let's not think what this sum represents world wide. Then add to this the political campaigning to it. Then we get for e.g. like in the USA where there is the most corrupt administration ever, as billions of dollars are side tracked via the war in Iraq whilst the soldiers die..
We, most nations need democratic reforms at all levels of government. This does not have to be reinvented, it all exists very long, since the beginning. So politicians, why are you holding fellow citizens at ransom and are unwilling to change these outdated, present pretend democracies & get real - give your people a real and true say and a real voice after all they pay for it all.
The Nation, the Land, the Governments belongs to the people, the governments are meant to be there for the people and not the people for the government, as it is still today.
Real DEMOCRACY is... - WHEN PEOPLE HAVE DEMOCRATIC RIGHTS TO LEAD, THE LEADERS WILL FOLLOW & GOVERNMENTS WILL GOVERN BY THE WILL OF THEIR PEOPLE -
which is nothing less than:- 'Government of the People, by the People, for the People - and for PLANET EARTH '
and then there is no need for these protests, which appear sometimes going too far, but if not, one is not heard. Politicians please consider this. Seph Xenon