Climate Change? What Climate Change?

Hi Treehugger. Let the organic chicken live, turn waste into compost, and die a friend when it time comes. Dont put it in the pot that's a step too far.

It was meant to be a play on Herbert Hoover's 1928 campaign promise 'A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage ". I do not like boiled chicken.

...and as Bush speaks, Europeans are preparing for expansive drilling off of the Florida keys. I guess so long as it's not in their backyard, the ecological impact doesn't matter. Interesting this is not mentioned in this article, though. Ironic.

Let's talk about refineries for a second. There are about 150 refineries that refine crude oil to gasoline, kerosene, jet fuel, diesel, etc.,. in the US. It's true that there haven't been any new ones built for a while. But it's also VERY true that no one would build a new refinery today. Why? The billions of dollars it would take would probably be amortized over a 50-year timeframe. In 50 years, there ain't gonna to be no more oil for that thar brand-spankin' new (relatively speaking) refinery to be refinin'. Even if a company where to use DCF (Discounted Cash Flow) to ROI (return on investment) model over, say a 20 year time-frame, you'd be getting to the point where there's not a whole lot of oil left in terms of supply to make a new refinery worth while. And this doesn't even get into the conspiracy theory about oil refiners intentionally closing refineries in order to create higher profit margins at the refiner level, which almost certainly happened a few short years ago.

Well, you might say, let's increase supply by drilling ANWR. Okay great. You've got... what... an additional supply for that refinery for how many months? MONTHS. Not years. Definitely not 20 years. Most certainly not 50 years.

So next time someone blames the cost of oil on a lack of refineries, please call B.S. immediately and loudly, 'cause we're likely to hear this a lot during this campaign season.

All of this talk about drilling for more oil doesn't make sense to me. As far as I can tell, there is currently not a shortage of oil. In fact, demand is dropping and refineries aren't producing at peak capacity, yet prices keep rising. Why doesn't the president or media focus on the real cause of current oil prices: unethical speculation in the oil futures market by the big energy futures players? This article pretty much sums it up, and makes sense to me, unless this guy is just flat out making stuff up, which I don't think he is:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9042
I'd be curious to know what others thought about this.

"We are addicted to cocaine".

"Lets steal from the public so we can get more cocaine".

Substitute "cocaine" for "oil" and you see our President's face all over it.

Yup. Just like you say.

The partie's over. Drill away, as much as you want, anywhere you want---it doesn't add a drop to reserves. It just uses up what there is much faster, and will drive prices astronomically higher at downhill roller coaster speed.

I don't argue with anyone anymore.

Let 'em have their way.

The war will end when the US drops into a major depression from all the deficit spending and inflation.

People will change their driving habits when gas is $12-14 at the pump, if it is even still at the pump at all.

I think this may be just one more cynical cow-tipping ploy. Force Democrats to defeat the measure and then crow to the mediathat they favor high gas prices.

The bait is in the trap., now Voter mice are not lreacting with macroeconomics and engineering backgrounds. They will go for it sadly.

Earth, I cannot fail. Loved ones, I must not fail. I will be the change that needs to happen.

It always amazed me how people can read these articles and be fooled. I mean, last month I read the (paper) newspaper 3 times. I saw a few articles on oil, which listed a) that we use 20-25 million barrels per day, b) that the reserves off the florida coast are estimated to be no more than about 5-6 billion barrels, with a comparable amount in the arctic. At current use (zero growth seems approximately reasonable if you combine rapid increases in efficiency with historical demand growth), that is 1.5 years worth of U.S. oil use. Maximum. To be pumped over several decades.

The inherently expensive thing about tar sands and shale is that it takes a heck of a lot of input energy to extract them oil (which we use primarily for its energy content). So in effect for each barrel extracted you need to put 1/2 or 1/3 of a barrels' worth back in. Instant price increase.

The problem is if we do not drill in the Gulf of Mexico the the Europeans, Chinese, or Mexicans will. We might as well keep the money and oil in the US if it is going to be drilled anyway.

2009 cant come soon enough...

Nice energy policy from the man whose family wealth started with funding the Nazi war machine and evolved into oil, construction and defense. Hmm, it's no wonder oil prices are so high and we are at war while simultaneously "reconstructing" the country we bombed.

"Brilliant" business plan. We always need oil. If we start to develop alternatives, make your energy policy about oil. Then defense and construction go hand-in-hand. We sell the bombs and we sell the labor to rebuild after the bombs.

Of course I'm generalizing here. The Bush family doesn't own any defense, oil, or construction companies directly anymore. They just invest in them via the Carlyle Group.

The point is, what the hell were 60 million americans expecting when voting such a man into the highest office in the government? If you send an oil and war monger into office, expect high gas prices and war. It's that simple. You also get all the corrupt Enron types that follow him.

I can't even get upset about this stuff anymore. It's all very predictable and the arguments supporting it are all very flimsy and transparent. It's just sad at this point.

How did the Republican Congress switch from a bunch of religious fanatics to hyper oil and coal salesmmen?

So,
Why are we 'letting' other countries drill off our shores when we are so opposed to it?
I guess it's better to be at the mercy of people who chop heads off anyone they like and dump cheap products on our market?

We need to keep developing alternatives to the fossil fuels but 'for the time being' will be how long?

So say suppose we drill til it's all gone? Then what? It will all be gone one day. So let us assume for a minute that it's all gone, not one more gooey drop left. I would think we would want to be in the best position to deal with the situation.

I heard an interesting suggestion... drill these areas and then cap them off and use them when the Israellis and Iranians bomb themselves into oblivion.

We are a long way from energy independence for travel, heat, electricity. The majors all know alternatives are really the way to go. The smart ones will have to develop them first. The late comers will come hat in hand for the crumbs (less productive wind and solar sights). Most of the efficient hydro power sights are taken.

So - what would happen right now if there wasn't any more oil in the ground???

Happy Friday !!

vsk

I guess Bush has not read that drilling won't help gas prices.

See the US Energy Information Administration report that says,

"The projections in the OCS [Outer Continental Shelf] access case indicate that access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017. Total domestic production of crude oil from 2012 through 2030 in the OCS access case is projected to be 1.6 percent higher than in the reference case, and 3 percent higher in 2030 alone, at 5.6 million barrels per day. For the lower 48 OCS, annual crude oil production in 2030 is projected to be 7 percent higher—2.4 million barrels per day in the OCS access case compared with 2.2 million barrels per day in the reference case (Figure 20). Because oil prices are determined on the international market, however, any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant."

Go to the following link for the full report.

http://eia.doe.gov/oiaf/aeo/otheranalysis/ongr.html

"Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government"
-- Thomas Jefferson

Drilling more...BAD (will make some rich but provide no real independence and will be used up at current rates...a little past a year IF all could be extracted at once.
Tar Sands....BAD
More Pollution...VERY BAD

The problem I have is I'm always hearing this "CO2" = Global warming is a consensus. Cap and Trade...tax...etc with almost a religious fervor. It can't be questioned.

I believe we should be environmentally benign/neutrual in all our affairs so that future generations will reap the benefit of our proper stewardship over the planet. So YES...reduce or eliminate Human generated CO2 and the actually harmful gases... like methane and the cloro- fluorocarbons.

So here:

CO2 from human generation is NOT causing global warming! 0.117% of the greenhouse effect is due to atmospheric CO2 from human activity...PERIOD. The majority of the effect is caused by WATER VAPOR which is related to the Sun's energy states and we have absolutely no real effect there (also less than 1%). The percent swing of our contribution is multiples less than the natural variance of volcano co2 yearly.

I repeat...we are harming ourselves with POLLUTING the environment and it should be stopped...but jumping the Carbon bandwagon and the BAD BAD BAD science and skewed studies will only help the rich get richer as they turn "Carbon" in to a traded commodity and create trillions out of thin air...literally. An appeal to numbers and authority is a logical fallacy so just because you are told "scientist agree" (not) and "everybody knows".... means little. Al Gore has been lying and twisting numbers folk.

For the record:
I ride an ebike 75%
drive an ecar 20%
Take public trans 5%
recycle
heat home solar thermal (vac tube/heat pump)
PV lighting and aux power
Vegetarian
Make my own decisions and do my own research and comparative analysis.
Refuse to join the sheeple in the CO2=apocalypse herd.

Research more and make your own conclusions.