Survey: Should Drivers Who Give Out The Door Prize Be Charged?

Let me take a step back and say that cyclists should never allow themselves to be in the position to be doored. One should ride in the lane of traffic and not be bullied by motor vehicles urging them off the road.

"One should ride in the lane of traffic and not be bullied by motor vehicles urging them off the road."

That's right.

Why should cyclists worry about impeding the flow of traffic or making a situation more unsafe?

Any auto driver that wants to use the road is just being a bully.

Wuz -

I ride heavily in the city and there is NO WAY that you can get away with riding with traffic all the time here. Welcome to Toronto. You either get forced off the road by some yahoo who is laying down the horn while giving you the finger, or you happen to be riding faster than traffic and it makes no sense to be stuck in it when you can ride past. The areas that do have bike lanes have them sitting in the door prize zone or there are cars parked in it. Even when you are trying to keep distance, there are usually cars parked in places that make it impossible to avoid (like beyond the designated parking spots on Bloor).

In the past WEEK I have almost been doored twice, on two occasions had people pull illegal U-Turns (cabs) in front of me and have had to use evasive action to avoid being pinched (when a car decides to pull into a parallel parking spot with no signal and without looking). I am EXTREMELY vigilant and aware of my surroundings and I do give plenty of space for car doors. Many others do as well. But it still happens that people get injured and killed all the time.

So get real.

It's the drivers responsibility to be aware of whats going on around them. If they want the conveniences of 4 wheeled transport, it's the least one can do. And yes. I do drive as well on a regular basis, so I am also saying this from the POV of a driver. It's easy to see whats coming. Look in your side view mirror and check your shoulder.

So yes. I think drivers and passengers should be charged. It's negligence. Just last fall I witnessed a girl get doored when a cab drivers passenger door swung open without notice (needless to say, he was stopped where he should have not been). Luckily she only clipped the corner. If it were head-on the outcome may have been death or serious injury.

So let me get this straight: It's the CYCLIST's fault, for getting in the way of somebody's car door? Give me a break. Yes, it's true that cyclists must always ride defensively. But a car driver who knocks someone into traffic and kills them -- even if it's an accident, that's a situation that demands to be addressed. So what is the appropriate response? Maybe it really was "just" an accident. Maybe both the driver and the cyclist were equally at fault. Punishing the driver isn't going to bring the cyclist back, or make that driver more careful in the future -- but will it make other drivers more careful, when they hear that this person spent some time in jail? I doubt it. Still, doing nothing seems to equate to saying it doesn't matter that this happened. Maybe the driver should be charged ... with what? And what then?

I am currently going to the court on this matter. I looked in the side mirror AND through the side window and even still someone managed to drive right onto my open door. The open door was on the left side while sidewalk AND biking lane were on the right side, so the cyclist was already on the wrong lane.

He did not get hurt in any physical way, he fell down smoothly and his coat got a little bit wet (from snow), and he still sued me. I think cyclists get an unfair support here - accidents may result from their mistakes as well.

I am pro-cycling - except when idiots are among them.

I second Wuz's comment. Certainly most US drivers will never cede space to bicyclists out of a sense of fair play or good citizenship. Bicyclists have to stand up for their rights. Eventually things will change (probably about the same time gas hits $7 US/gal., and the number of bikes on the road reaches some kind of critical mass), but not until bicyclists assert themselves first.

Getting 'doored,' as they call it in Boston, is a terrifying hazard of cyclists. Cities who want to be serious about cyclists need to create protected thoroughfares of travel for cyclists (read: no cars, parked or otherwise).

Getting into the lane of traffic has its own hazards. Many drivers of short stature in a large gas-sucking SUV's can't see over their hoods at close quarters. But aggressive in-lane cycling increases visibility and may annoy drivers...but will likely improve your visibility.

I don't know if I would go as far as charging the driver...If your using a legal parking area one would assume you have control over that area. I believe making a crime out of this is skirting the real problem - large vehicles, overpopulated cities, poor mass transit, etc....making more laws to charge people with crimes that are a result of these other issues seems a bit off to me. Solve the problem, not the symptom.

it’s difficult for a driver to see a cyclist

Are you kidding me? Then stop driving. If you can't see a cyclist, how can you see a pedestrian, or a stop sign. The law has it right, the cop was wrong. If the cycle had been a motorcyle, where an insurance company has to shell out money, the "driver" (driving or not) would definitely be held responsible.

As a pedestrian, non-driver, non-cyclist I think it is a two way street. Cyclists should be aware of their dangers at all times and if you're going past a driver who even is cautious opening their door they may not see you when they look, feel its safe to go then all of a sudden you're there going 25 mph expecting someone moving less than 1mph to to keep up on a situation that can change in under 10 seconds. If motorists are expected to be aware of smaller slower things, the same goes for cyclists. It doesn't mean there are people who don't look at all and they are negligent but they're just as likely to open their door and get it taken off by a passing car as well.

Personally, I'm sick of cyclists. I almost never get hit by drivers but at least twice a day either me or someone else in my field of vision is almost run down by a cyclist blowing through a red light or cutting a corner feeling empowered and self-righteous because they're a biker and not a motorist. Almost daily I see elderly and disabled people panic, some having to stop of move out of the way because of negligent bikers blowing through a busy crosswalk against a red light without even blinking or slowing down. I used to be happy things like Critical Mass and such happened in San Francisco, but now I'm sick of bikers in this city who feel they own the roads, the crosswalks and the sidewalks. I wanted to get a bike and start biking to work instead of taking public transit but I reconsidered because I don't want to be thought of in this way. There is a serious hate on bikers right now because of their increasing arrogance on the roads, I'm not the only one.

For those of you bikers out there who DO obey the traffic laws and pay attention to us pedestrian's and ride defensively congratulations. You are a minority in San Francisco and I have nothing against you.

I'm sure the driver has already been punished enough. You can call it negligence, but all of us are guilty of being un-attentive at times. Besides, punishment rarely works for anything. Think of the war on drugs. Possession should not be punished at all unless it's possession for the purpose of distribution. It is the intention that matters. If you can prove the driver intended harm it's a different story. Again, punishment as a means of changing behavior rarely if ever works.

i do think that drivers are criminally negligent in many bicycle accidents, but there are also so many bicyclists on the roads that are not following traffic rules who are putting themselves and other riders in serious danger. i agree with blueshift, there should be buffered bicycle lanes throughout cities to prevent the chances of being doored. but i also think that there needs to be serious education, for both motorists and cyclists, to clearly address traffic rules and bicycle safety.

If it had been a bicycle cop that got killed, not only would the driver be charged, but likely he would also be tasered and beaten!

Cyclists need to be on the lookout for doors. Sometimes I get out of my car and i think, "whew, thank god no cyclist was coming, because i forgot to check!".

Pulling random u-turns and changing lanes without warning is another matter.

From what I know of bicycle laws, they are for most intents and purposes treated as a vehicle. Seeing as they operate in a "motorcycle" fashion, they should be treated as such. Considering the poor state of bicycle lanes (or should I say non-existence) they should pretty clearly be given the benefit of the doubt in most cases.

The bicyclist is going 10+ mph while the owner of the car door is going zero. I'm pretty sure the bicyclist has FAR less time to react to a door opening than a driver does to opening their door. These accidents don't happen in slow motion, and it appears to me obvious as to who has the greater control to protect the bicyclist. These types of accidents should be treated as any other accident and depending on the nature of the injury (if any) there should be charges just as in any other vehicle accident.

If you open your door and a car hits it, you are liable. (as happened to a friend of mine in Seattle) Should be the same whether a car or bike hits the door.

That being said, I ride well into the lane and keep alert for people in cars.

So if I pretend to be in shock and then door a unaware biker I can get away with it?

I wonder whos side the cops would take if my 50 dollar bike accidentally slipped downhill from my hands and rolled into oncoming traffic. I mean I could just say I was in shock from chafing calves...

The driver should get punished for killing a civilian...

We have a shitty bicycle infrastructure in this country. Period.

I live in Columbia, MO, and I have been biking for awhile. I've only been close to getting hit by a door once, since then I have taken it upon myself to pay very close attention to parked cars.

I always check to see if there are passengers/drivers in the car, and if so I slow down, or check to see if I can merge into traffic real quick.

Just as if you were driving and hit another cars door, the car with the busted door is held liable. Same for bikes and cars... Or atleast it should be.

As a driver it is horrifying to deal with aggressive bikers who take it upon themselves to create a new lane of traffic between cars and parked cars but also between cars and driveways/side streets. There are a number of places where I am afraid to drive after nearly killing cyclists who tried to pass me on the right when I was turning right into a driveway. If you're going to be on the street, then you need to follow traffic laws, which would include not passing other vehicles on a one-lane road. That in itself would prevent a lot of the problem of bikers being "doored."

It's illegal here to open one's car door without looking to make sure the coast is clear. Most drivers don't seem to know this, though. It's not just for cyclists. You never know if there's someone in a wheelchair, a pedestrian, a kid, whoever... You need to look. That said, accidents *do* happen. I think in general I'd say "the driver broke the law and needs to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law". But hopefully in a trial situation all sides of the issue would be looked at.

I'm in favor of the laws on the books being enforced on everyone: jaywalkers, bikes that blow through stop lights, cars that change lanes without signalling...

that'll be the day.. when motorists actually get penalized for injuring or killing cyclists or pedestrians.

Cyclists do have to be careful beyond the road code for the simple reason they if they get doored, turned into, pulled out on they can die. I bike around 16km a day in a baby city of 300,000 and would take evasive action once every two weeks. My recommendation is to do what i do. If someone almost hits/doors you stop and talk (yell) to them about it. Tell them how they could of killed you, ask them how they would fell.

Basically if i see someone is in a car I give them a wide berth knowing that most people don't look.

I think that a group of concerned cyclist need to invest in the legal fees for finding and winning a test case for wrongful death. If the police and lawmakers are going to take no action to stop this type of manslaughter, then maybe establishing a civil case history will act as public awareness and a deterrent.

Every time I rode to work in Toronto. I took my own life in my hands. Drivers used to yell at me for just being on the road. The day I got the door prize on College Street, I slid across 5 metres of streetcar track and three lanes of traffic before I stopped. I was in such shock, I just got back on my bike and kept going. I should have laid charges. People should be charged for doing this, had the car coming the opposite way been 5 seconds later, I'd probably be dead.

If the biker was driving legally, in a bike lane which was next to parked cars then clearly the car driver should be charged. If there are safe bike lanes out of the range of car doors (which is rare) and the biker is ignoring them then it's a different matter. But, opening a door into a bike lane is just like driving into one. And where there are no bike lanes bikes should be allowed to ride in traffic.

The real issue is unsafe bike lanes. Even if drivers were always careful some accidents would happen. That's why we need sidewalk - bike lane - parked car - traffic. That way even if you did get doored you wouldn't be knocked into traffic. Some cities are beginning to do this--but way too slowly.

Is 'not looking when you should' not the very definition of negligence?

I would be interested to know how much of an investigation is usually performed in cases like this. I know that with motor vehicle accidents that involve death they'll often cordon off a road and perform all sorts of analysis to determine what happened, does this happen in these cases too? I would assume so, what were the conclusions?

Let's consider...

Was the cyclist rampaging through traffic like a yahoo?
If so, I think we can all understand that it could be impossible not to 'door' them even if being duly diligent. Assuming the person did check before opening the door, we have a case where some poor individual will be left with that awful moment burdening their lives. I can't even imagine how something like that would feel. However, what if the driver did not check? Surely, even though the cyclist was riding like some demon, this would still constitute negligence on the driver's part. After all, it could still be possible not to 'door' them if being duly diligent.

But if the cyclist was obeying the rules, and cycling in a predictable manner? If the driver didn't check we have a situation where someone died through no fault of their own other that, either by choice or necessity, they were out riding their bicycle.

In the first case the cyclist was negligent and he forced everyone, including his family, to pay a hefty price. In the second case the driver was negligent and forced everyone to pay a hefty price. Either way, if appropriate, blame should be laid at the feet of the one responsible so that society can learn from it.

As a cyclist, pedestrian and driver I try to obey the laws in all cases. I dislike stupid, aggressive, cyclists, pedestrians and drivers equally.

Of course now I realize that what I really dislike is stupid, aggressive, people.

I've been riding a bike my entire life, and I have to wonder... How did this person die from just hitting a car door? Where was his helmet? Secondly... Ever heard of Sidewalks? If traffic is to rough to ride with, then get off the street. I live and ride in L.A. and it's pretty easy to recognize danger spots. It's a sad incident, but Charging a person for trying to get out of there Car? That's just Ridiculous. ~Peace

Most drivers don't realize that in almost all states, or about 40 of the 50 states in the US -- it is the fault of a driver if the diver "doors" someone.

Unfortunately, I was doored in November on my mortocycle. It seemed like an open and shut case (har har) to me so I filed a claim with the drivers' insurance company. They're making me take her to court before they'll pay me anything.

In California, as in most states, I can't sue the insurance company directly. I feel somewhat badly that I have to sue the lady who did it. I understand that opening a door without looking first is easy to do, everyone's done it, and it results in an accident 17,000 times a year (or more) in the US.

But that's exactly why when it does happen there needs to be repurcussions, so that it starts to happen less and less until people look at this situation and see it as clearly the fault of the driver.

First of all, this was really a tragedy. No matter who did what. Sometimes I wish car doors just... weren't there.

As someone who has ridden at least 15 urban miles a day, 365 days a year, for 8 years, an obvious bias might be expected. However, I see how this is tough. Small mirrors, large vehicles behind, the silent, swoopy agility of bicycles, twilight... Many things can make it tough to see something rapidly approaching from the side/rear. The faster the cyclist, the harder it is to see 'em, and the worse the ensuing collision. Nothing good there. I'm in the reverse of this situation every day -- squeezing in a bit too close to the parking lane to let someone by. "But it looks pretty clear... and it's just for a second..." WHAM.

Speaking frankly, I find it very difficult to not take advantage of the superiority of the bicycle in the urban environment. I attempt to compensate with extreme vigilance, and never, ever assume that ANYone can see me, but this is no long term solution, and isn't for everyone either. I try very, very hard to not behave in any aggressive way, but sometimes those curvy lines blasting through snail-pace traffic call to me with the euphoric strains of a siren's song. Some of you will know for sure what I mean.

Lets continue being frank. Cycling is almost nothing like driving. Sharing the same infrastructure is really difficult, especially when it was designed exclusively around the automobile, kicking off decades of its exclusive use. Yes, this was a silly idea. Yes this needs to change, and soon.

I feel the seething rage of the marginalized cyclist. But I also understand the impatience and hostility of the traffic-bound commuter, born on the road, nursed on cheap-as-free gas, imprinted on our car-idolizing culture, and now threatened by an uncertain new reality. Not to mention pissed off at the sense of superiority and entitlement that positively radiates from so many riders who've never given a four-way stop the time of day.

We need to understand each other, completely, if we're ever going to get out of this mess, and that means realizing that accidents do happen, Lloyd, and will always happen, and that the reflexive recourse to ersatz zealotry only drives that dividing wedge further between us.

Peace.

Eye Magazine notes that "It may be unfair to single out Sgt. Burrows, since his comments represent the average person’s approach to such things."

Shame on Eye Magazine :>(

If the 'average' equates to just another person being killed by another person who was probably in mind 'a million miles away' and not paying attention then shouldn't Eye Mag be striving to change the average???

Some poor soul has lost their life, not to mention the friends & relations left to pick up the pieces.

Yes, a cyclist should never assume that he/she has been seen by another road user/pedestrian. But then neither should another pedestrian/cyclist/motorcyclist/driver.

I'm not typing this as an angel either. I'm sure there will have been occasions that i've opened the car door when tired, distracted, maybe during a row with the wife or when one of the kids is having a tantrum. The point, is that there are probably many times that most of us has unwittingly almost put ourselves or an innocent party in danger, but if we caused an 'accident' - it wouldn't be right would it?

During the (almost) 16 years of driving (from England, UK BTW), i've attained 3 licences.
The Car test was hard at the time of taking it, but in retrospect was by far the easiest.
The Heavy Goods tests (I did rigid & articulated but the roadcraft was basically the same) was quite advanced requiring smooth operation and a lot of forward planning. I actually failed the artic test twice - first due to being not up to scratch in a big way (!), and the second due to misjudging the length of my trailer whilst pulling out onto a roundabout.
The Motorcycle test was on par with the Heavy Goods test in standard but placed much more emphasis on not committing yourself until you have been seen. Obviously, this is due to being less visible and more vulnerable on the road - the test ensuring that you are capable of dealing with risky situations as such. But taking this theory onboard and combining it with some lateral thinking equates to...

...if you need to be seen, you need to SPOT who needs to see you.

As an 'average' car driver for example, driving down the road you want to turn left. The status quo in my part of the real world is to switch on the indicators and turn.
If a large truck was driving in the opposite direction then the 'average' driver would wait until it had passed before turning. The 'average driver' however wouldn't check the mirrors or look over the shoulder before turning.

My commute home takes me through a right turn at a 3 lane roundabout. Whilst traversing the roundabout my path goes into the inside lane, which then tails off gradually to my exit (UK motorists will know how this works - logically IF you look at the white lines on the road heheh!). As my lane migrates from the inside of the roundabout to the centre, the angle of the corner sharpens (due to poor design in all honesty), the 'average' driver who has driven on to it from the same direction as me has incorrectly joined in the centre lane due to it having less traffic (the 'average' driver being naturally impatient) instead of the correct inner lane. At the point where by lane drifts into the centre, most of the impatient average drivers don't see the bright white road marking beneath them - they simply drive over the broad white lines cutting up the minority of 'aware' drivers who have their eyes open. A sizeable percentage of the remaining impatient average drivers possess the advanced skill of being able to put their indicators on whilst performing the same dangerous maneover 5 days a week.

Shockingly, I can count two Traffic Police cars as examples of the latter - how bad is that??? And they are reputedly taught how to drive properly!!!

Sorry for the rant, but to end it please consider this - as theres every chance that the poor deceased cyclist didn't look for the driver and anticipate his actions (we'll never know which unfortunately leaves all the accountability to the driver) - how would Sgt. Burrows react if a driver opened & leapt from a car door only to be struck down and killed by a cyclist who 'didn't look'?...
...IMHO the cyclist would be the guilty party for not spotting the hazard and approaching it with caution. It would be interesting to hear what an 'average' driver, an 'average' Sgt. Burrows, or an 'average' commentating journalist would think though - and as the lack of care possibly lies with the cyclist, what an 'average' cyclist would think considering that an explanation would be unattainable from the driver.

Ian...Swizz69

P.S:- How to solve the problem that caused this unnecessary death is a difficult.
I only cycle every week or so for leisure or to the shops. In good light & weather I consider it safer to cycle by looking out for hazards and taking steps to avoid them along the way, but accept that at speeds faster than sitting still - so called 'accidents' CAN & DO happen, and welcome any attempts to raise awareness to prevent them happening no matter what the cause.

The main thing is that nobody gets hurt ;>)

I am both a cyclist and a driver regularly. As cyclists we rightfully demand that drivers share the road and respect us as they ought to (but often don't) respect motorcyclists.
At the same time, cyclists must of course bike defensively and realize they are small and vulnerable and slower-moving (in most circumstances).
I think both these problems could be solved by requiring cyclists to receive formal training. We don't let drivers or motorcyclists on the road with other drivers/riders without a license, and if we want bicyclists to follow the same rules we need the same standards. And also, that way bicyclists would be officially on the radar of traffic cops policy makers, and could more easily be incorporated into driver's ed programs.
Having only gone through driver's ed a couple of years ago (I'm 21) I can safely say that besides me, not one person I know out of many dozens of friends who got their licenses actually read the driver's manual. They also didn't pay attention in driver's ed, but that is ok because the teacher didn't cover most of the laws anyway.

Also, I'm living in Boston now and there are bike lanes near me. In some places they are next to the lanes of traffic, leaving bikers in danger from doors. In other places the bike lanes are actually between two lanes of traffic- safe from doors but hardly an improvements during the morning commute as drivers change lanes. Those drivers are definitely NOT considering that they are crossing 2 lanes of traffic (the bike lane and the one they want to get into). Scary.

The driver KILLED someone. Out of carelessness. Where I come from that's manslaughter.

The driver of the Volvo was shaken and in shock? Well, imagine how the cyclist she doored into traffic felt! Oh wait. He's dead. So it doesn't matter how he felt. If a car or streetcar had hit her door she would be charged, but because it's a cyclist, there's no charge? Would they have charged her if it had been a bicycle cop she had doored and killed?

The author errs in saying this isn't an accident and needs to use a dictionary.

An accident by definition lacks intent. Look it up. An accident does not absolve responsibility. The author is confusing the fact that the word "accident" might connote a situation that no one could foresee when in fact it denotes a lack of intent. The driver clearly (negligent or not) did not intend to door the cyclist.

The fact is that this is an accident. And a tragic one at that. That said the driver needs to be held fully accountable for the action.

Unfortunately as bike commuters we all know that drivers are rarely held accountable when they kill cyclists.

I've heard of people causing accidents with thier cars, hitting other cars, and killing other drivers or passengers and being charged with manslaughter. So moral of the story: it's ok to kill a bicyclist as long as you don't kill a motorist. WTF!

It is fair to say that of all the cities I have biked in as a commuter, Glasgow, Newcastle, Bristol, London, Charlottesville and Toronto, the drivers in Toronto are the absolute worst I have encountered as regards their attitude to cyclists. However, even in Toronto I still occupy my lane, stay well out of reach of car doors and assume when approaching a junction that that car is going to turn in front of me. Interestingly, I have never had an accident involving a car (touch wood) in 14 years of daily commuting by bike, and can count the unexpected near misses on my fingers. (Note the emphasis on the word unexpected.)

The one thing that has become very clear to me is that cyclist movements where the bikes occupy the roads only annoy cars even more. What is needed is driver reeducation - carrot (eg, make bike awareness part of driving exams) and stick (charge drivers who show no awareness of bikes - after all, manslaughter often carries a suspended sentence or less).

To the guy who made the 'where was their helmet' comment. Had they been wearing a helmet (I didn't notice anything that indicated they weren't), I still don't see how that would have protected them from being run over?

I've been riding a bike my entire life, and I have to wonder... How did this person die from just hitting a car door? Where was his helmet?

@B
I have to wonder if you read the entire article before commenting...the cyclist was doored and as a result fell into traffic where he was run over by a cube van. Helmet or not, I don't think the chances of survival were on his side.

---
As for being charged, yes to the full extent. I'm tired of hearing about bikers being killed (when they aren't at fault) and the only "punishment" that the person responsible receives is "the guilt of living with the death."

When someone is on a bike they suddenly become second class citizens whose lives aren't as valuable as others when they are killed. Everyone out there on a bike (as annoying as the red light cutters, etc. are) make things better for those who are driving; by reducing the number of cars on the road, in parking spaces, burning oil, causing congestion, inflating healthcare insurance costs...I could go on.

I don't hate cars or bikes. I can't stand irresponsible drivers or riders. I've had as many close calls on my bike with other cyclists running stop signs, as I have with cars cutting me off. There needs to be a mutual respect, but people are self-absorbed and ignorant...so I won't be holding my breath.