From the Forums: Buy a New Car or Keep Old One?
by Alan Graham on 05. 1.08
BAF is caught in a difficult position:
I have a 1996 nissan minivan, 21 mpg, paid off, runs great. I drive about 10,000 miles a year, so that's roughly 475 gallons of gas per year, and about $1750 a year spent on gas (at $3.60 a gallon).I know that economically it is better to hold on to my old car...if I doubled my gas milage I save about 800$, which is a lot less than a new car payment.But what about the environmental impact of an older car? If I want to REDUCE, I won't dump a working car just for something shiny and new. I can also REDUCE by walking/biking etc when possible. But in terms of driving,is my carbon impact bigger if I buy a new car (impact of manufacturing, etc) or bigger if I drive my older car (less mpg).
Looking at todays market, my pocket book, and my family's needs, we would replace this van with a Honda Fit (33/38mpg). I really need a hatchback, prefer 4 doors, and am not seeing a hybrid that would suit our family at this time. Another bonus of holding on to my new car, is allowing the market to make some more advances in hybrids, and maybe even an electric car?? I live in Eastern Washington, near the Columbia River dams, with lots of cheap hydroelectric power.So, I appreciate anyone's advice. Hold on to the old car, or switch to the Honda Fit...what is best for the environment?
So what do you think? Have any advice for BAF? What about a vehicle recommendation? Come in and share it.
The average driver drives about 12,000 miles a year. I drive a great deal more than that (currently about 45,000 miles per year). You drive a little less.
If you don't drive much, I don't think it matters much what you drive -- just so long as you keep the vehicle in good repair. If it burns oil, junk it immediately. Replace the catalytic converter, if necessary. Keep the exhaust system in good repair. Take care of those nagging check-engine lights (the oxygen sensor and the EGR are there for a reason). Use good tires, properly inflated. Use the vehicle only when its capabilities apply to a particular situation. If you do all of those things, then keeping an old car makes a lot of environmental sense to me.
As for me, I'm driving hundreds and hundreds of miles per week. What I drive matters a lot, from both the environmental and financial perspectives. My Jetta TDI is pretty good from the carbon-footprint side of things but, due to the frequency of repairs, it's lousy from the financial side. The Jetta can run off of processed veggie oil, so it has an
My girlfriend's Prius is a wonderful car from both the financial and environmental perspectives -- but it lacks any sort of alternative-fuel capability (the hybrid system does an amazing job maximizing the benefit you get from burning gasoline, but all of the energy still comes from gasoline).
Another thing to consider is that the next generation of cars coming out in the 2010-2011 timeframe will have a lot of environmentally friendly features. There should be a number of new small/clean/high-mileage diesels and hybrids on the market. There's a lot of hype about the Chevy Volt (a plug-in serial-hybrid that can go 40 miles on battery power and then an additional 300 miles on gasoline) -- if the hype condenses and GM sells the real car, then it would be worth the wait. If GM doesn't deliver, Toyota probably will deliver a plug-in Prius about the same time.
If you're interested in this stuff day-to-day, I can recommend a few blogs:
http://www.autobloggreen.com
http://www.greencarcongress.com
http://www.gm-volt.com
Over the average lifetime of a typical car driven an average number of miles per year, the energy footprint is:
5-15% embodied energy (total energy involved in the materials, production, and shipping of the vehicle)
85-95% usage energy (fuel, oil changes, tires, etc)
Therefore, if you buy a new vehicle that gets at least 20% better fuel economy, you drive the same mileage per year, and the old vehicle is purchased/used or recycled, the world is better off.
On the other hand, if you think you can reduce your annual mileage by half, suddenly the embodied energy becomes 10-30% of the energy footprint, while the usage energy drops to 70-90%. So if you plan on buying a new car AND will reduce your mileage by half, your new car needs to get at least 30% better gas mileage than your old car.
This is very complicated and is a topic worthy of a PhD thesis!
Probably the best things to do are reduce your mileage significantly, stop idling needlessly, get your tailpipe emissions checked, and replace the catalytic converter if necessary.
Obviously though, if you drive a big truck or van but don't really need to, then ditch it immediately for something more realistic.
The average driver drives about 12,000 miles a year. I drive a great deal more than that (currently about 45,000 miles per year). You drive a little less.
If you don't drive much, I don't think it matters much what you drive -- just so long as you keep the vehicle in good repair. If it burns oil, junk it immediately. Replace the catalytic converter, if necessary. Keep the exhaust system in good repair. Take care of those nagging check-engine lights (the oxygen sensor and the EGR are there for a reason). Use good tires, properly inflated. Use the vehicle only when its capabilities apply to a particular situation. If you do all of those things, then keeping an old car makes a lot of environmental sense to me.
As for me, I'm driving hundreds and hundreds of miles per week. What I drive matters a lot, from both the environmental and financial perspectives. My Jetta TDI is pretty good from the carbon-footprint side of things but, due to the frequency of repairs, it's lousy from the financial side. The Jetta can run off of processed veggie oil, so it has an
My girlfriend's Prius is a wonderful car from both the financial and environmental perspectives -- but it lacks any sort of alternative-fuel capability (the hybrid system does an amazing job maximizing the benefit you get from burning gasoline, but all of the energy still comes from gasoline).
Another thing to consider is that the next generation of cars coming out in the 2010-2011 timeframe will have a lot of environmentally friendly features. There should be a number of new small/clean/high-mileage diesels and hybrids on the market. There's a lot of hype about the Chevy Volt (a plug-in serial-hybrid that can go 40 miles on battery power and then an additional 300 miles on gasoline) -- if the hype condenses and GM sells the real car, then it would be worth the wait. If GM doesn't deliver, Toyota probably will deliver a plug-in Prius about the same time.
If you're interested in this stuff day-to-day, I can recommend a few blogs:
http://www.autobloggreen.com
http://www.greencarcongress.com
http://www.gm-volt.com
I'm in the same boat as you.
Have found some salvaged prius that were recovered as stolen and could be converted to electric still would have $20K tied up.
Seems like the car companies are still focused on the big cars because the margins are better for the dealers, the finance companies and their own profits.
If someone offered an electric car at a Fit price point the market would exhaust their supply immediately.
Keep the minivan, however, put what you were paying on your monthly payment to pay off you credit cards/other debt. If you are debt free, buy silver/gold with it to save up for you next car. (ideally electric).
Take into consideration your personal finical situation. Typically the cheapest car to drive is the car that you already own. As for what is best for the earth? Well what if you took the money you saved from buying a new car and investing that in energy efficiency around your home? From rain barrels to planting your own vegetable garden to saving up for a solar or on demand hot water heater. I would turn to one of those options first. As others have noted, I expect another major shift in automobile technology in the next two to four years.
I would also consider buying used. I have no expertise on this but it would make sense that a newer used car would have less of a carbon footprint.
I'd add this to the hang-on-to-it votes above. Be sure and let your favorite two or three auto manufacturers know that you aren't going to buy another vehicle until after they improve their fuel economy dramatically. And let them know about some of the up and coming ultra-high mileage and EV choices.
I don't know where Brennan got his numbers. While I appreciate his math, everything I can find states that 20-25% of the energy is embedded in the manufacture and shipping. This makes and even stronger case for keeping your current vehicle, especially since you don't drive a lot. You mention reducing your use of your car. That's the way to go.
brennan,
On the other hand, if you think you can reduce your annual mileage by half, suddenly the embodied energy becomes 10-30% of the energy footprint,
I've generally found that when I buy a car that sucks-less, I drive it more.
For instance, when I lived in-town and I owned a Ford Tempo, I drove it about 12,000 miles per year. After that, I drove a Ford Ranger (2.5L -- smallest engine available), which has comfortable seats and didn't try to poison me with carbon monoxide every few months. My mileage than jumped into the 20k/yr range -- because my friends would actually ride in the car.
I still have the Ranger, but the Jetta TDI is much better for highway travel in every way. I'm working on arranging my life so that i can walk to work and so that I live in the same state as my girlfriend -- but that hasn't happened quite yet.
Arrrrrrrrrggg. You don't NEED to buy a new car. Sell your car and buy a comparable, but smaller used car, or simply post an ad on craigslist, looking to trade your car for something a little smaller. It's not like you're throwing away your car, someone else will use it.
Get a mechanical inspection from a competent mechanic and you're laughing..all the way to the bank.
Or wait. Buying a gas car means that they make more gas cars. hybrids in their current configuration suck ass and really aren't that green when you buy new batteries. They'll cost you green tho. Wait for a plug in hybrid or pure electric.