Quote of the Day: Jason Alexander on Overpopulation

amen, more people need to be saying this cuase its all true

I love how this conversation assumes that Earth is the only planet that we can live on. Right now we have the technology to populate Mars at the same rate that the New World was populated 500 years ago.

Through recycling and nuclear fusion, the solar system can support trillions of humans, living on planets that have no ecosystems to destroy or plant or animal species to go extinct.

Jason,

Exactly how many people was the earth intended to have? Is your source for this number credible? Are there competing opinions about the number?

We need to be responsible stewards of our environment, but Mr. Alexander could perhaps learn a more rational argument for his position.

Though I agree with this quote, and the concerns of overpopulation, we must recognize that in general it is the uninformed and uneducated groups within our population that are exacerbating our population woes. We must get family planning information to the masses, and maybe eventually regulate (gasp!) family size. If we do not self-regulate population size, Mother will do it for us (read: pandemic). Lastly, lets make sure all groups learn to control family size so we don't end up in a situation as portrayed in the ridiculous (but maybe too possible) film "Idiocracy."

I couldn't agree more.

The best way to reduce family size is getting people out of poverty and educating them. See most rich western countries vs. most poor african/asian countries.

totally agree... having children is very very not green.

Just curious. How do you know what the limitations are on this planet? Most manufactures put out whitesheets on there products to show the purpose, usefulness, and limitations of their products. Did you contact the manufacturer about this? What did He say?

So, ... what's a good number?
When will the Soilent Green or the QuietUs factories begin production?

I know this topic has been beaten to death before on this site.

I won't be having kids. I just know my own preference that's all.
I would not discourage 'good people out there' from having them. Bring them up responsibly and the world will be better for it.

vsk

It's about time we started talking about population. Any efforts we make to ameliorate climate change will be a complete waste of time unless we do something about human population. This the the elephant in the room that no one dares mention. Paul Erlich had it right, back in the early 70's, and I've been worried ever since. Email your representatives and wake them up.
Tony

A class I had in college had us do one of those consumption tests that say how many planets would be needed to sustain us. Considering we were all college students with relatively spartan lives compared to most people, we still averaged between 2 to 2.5 planets. Someone raised the idea that there were just too many people, and it was as if the person endorsed murdering a billion people. Population control is definitely the most important subject in the whole eco debate, but so many treat it as taboo that it doesn't seem to be addressed seriously.

Amen. My wife and I had this discussion well before children, and we won't be having more than two children naturally (there's only two of us after all). If we want more than that (if that even happens), there are plenty of less fortunate children out there that could use a home.

Ideally it should not be about replacing yourself, but reducing world population by having only one or no children.

I've increasingly begun to think that we need a cap-and-trade system for having children. Everybody is given an allowence of 2 children, and if you didn't want to have 2, you could sell your allowences to those who do. People who wanted to have more kids could--if they could fork up the cash. If you were poor, you would have the financial incentive to not have children, so, for example, if you only had one child rather than two, you could sell your credits and use that money to support your other child.

I know this issue makes people sqemish, but something has to be done. We are struggling to support 6 billion people, even with 60% of the world's population making less than $3 per day. With the estimated 9 billioin people in 2050, we're definately facing environmental catastrophy and likely alarming rates of world poverty.

Ahhh... I sense a growing movement towards my side of the fence when it comes to popping out the most consuming creature nature has yet devised.

Ted Turner gave a little rant yesterday too:

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/news/stories/2008/04/03/turner_0404.html

So, to all you self absorbed me monkeys who can't control your base instincts, your days of being tolerated are NUMBERED.

True! I talk about this with friends and family too. I think it is the idea of change that upsets some. Some people think we are taking away freedom, but really like it is "about responsibility in family planning".

I think we forget our home extends past the walls of our shelters. Our home is this wonder of a planet.
=-)

Jason, Jason, Jason. Unfortunately, the places when overpopulation is rampant are places where the people are so poor they will never hear your words, much less even know who you are.

In most industrialized 'first-word" countries, however, overpopulation is a myth. Birth rates in many are already so low that they're already below replacement values.

Determine how to spread prosperity, and birth rates will fall, naturally, of their own accord.

Michael, he's talking about adoption, and when you're talking about adoption, suddenly ALL child birth is measured on a global scale, because if privileged people can adopt an under-privileged child instead of bring to the world yet another child, that's one less person to overpopulate the poor areas of our world. One less person who has to live his or her life in dire need. That's not a good thing?

Granted, it's not the biggest thing you could ever do for your planet or humanity, but it's SOMETHING, and we can't start dismissing all the little somethings and only focus on the big things, because it's all connected. Everything we do matters.

In accordance with Michael Long's comment, it's not the families in sub-Saharan Africa that are the main "problem" anyway. One American family of 3 or 4 uses up WAY more resources than a sub-Saharan family of 8 or whatever. (This is averages, of course.)

This is an argument against international adoption, by the way. Take a child who would normally consume a small amount of resources and bring her to a place where she'll grow to probably consume waaaaay more resources.

Well, what to You propose? Kyoto protocol for birth rate? Countries whose population booms will have to buy credits from countries who have a negative birth rate? Usually the pop is booming in developing countries, with the rise of wealth their numbers will also stabilize. But then again, there's so many of them and if they start to consume like the rest more developed nations, it will impact the world very hard.
Anyway, hopefully we find a balance, but if we don't then the equlibrium will force itself upon us by disease, famine, war, disasters etc.

Let me tell you a little story. I know a couple here in Venezuela with a very limited income. They managed to have only one son, so they could give him a decent life and good education.

Within time, the kid proved to have a knack for fixing things and playing musical instruments, so they brought him a Cuatro (a Venezuelan folklore instrument, similar to a bigger Ukelele).

Nowadays, the kid is a grown-up adult who majored a PhD with honors in classical & Venezuelan music, with a love for teaching music to children and a recording career with the "Ensamble Catako". They've even played in U.S.

Thing is, most families of their income just don't practice birth control, so they end up with lots of kids, they can't feed them well, and eventually those kids get involved in crime just to find some cash to get home. Orlando Cardozo is a living proof of how a loving, responsible and planned parenting can have a positive impact on society.

First of all I like the green movement BUT your ideas that Mother Nature is God are dead wrong!!!!! YOU think YOU get to decide what is a valuable human life and what is not! Every human life is valuable to God who created us!!! weather is someone who drives a Hummer or a poor child in Africa. The day we die we will all be judged on loving God and loving our neighbor. I am all for clean air, not giving our money to violent dictatorships for oil, and reducing our consumption, But population control, come on!
If you think the world is overpopulated and someone should limit the population growth, how about eliminating yourself from the equation to save the world...Jason Alexander and Ted Turner, or is YOUR LIFE more valuable than another, What if your parents didn't have you because of world population!!!
your life is valuable and God does love you, so lets leave population problems to God OK

Mike Long has it right.

I always joke that having kids today is for rich people. All costs are rising with no end in sight, salaries are not keeping pace. Heaven forbid if the child actually wants a college education!!

Bring up the children responsibly so they can combat all the marketing out there that says you need the latest and greatest stuff, which will break to be replaced by more stuff... etc.

Yes, developed nation birth rates have been falling for a variety of reasons.
vsk

Mike Long has it right.

I always joke that having kids today is for rich people. All costs are rising with no end in sight, salaries are not keeping pace. Heaven forbid if the child actually wants a college education!!

Bring up the children responsibly so they can combat all the marketing out there that says you need the latest and greatest stuff, which will break to be replaced by more stuff... etc.

Yes, developed nation birth rates have been falling for a variety of reasons.
vsk

I cast my vote for the enlightened, responsible attitude demonstrated by Jason Alexander! It's really not rocket science. Even George Costanza could understand it.

Dave Gardner
Producer/Director
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
www.growthbusters.com

"If we do not start to really understand this harsh reality and reverse it, our planet will not survive. "

Not true. Our planet will survive, we just might not be here. If we destroy our environment we'll only destroy ourselves. Then after we're gone, our planet will recover and be as though we never existed.

@Icelander -I'm not so sure about living on other planets in any near term colonization. The physics and health impacts of living in other gravity environments shows that we would likely have some serious issues.

Not to mention we are having a tricky enough time of growing food, and supporting people here. I think we should address our problems here before spreading the same thinking to the rest of the solar system.

And as for having 2 or less children, that brings problems as well. Japan is facing this as it's population ages, there are less 'working' age people to support medical costs and care.

@Dan A -I'm intrigued by your suggestion of a cap-and-trade system for population. but find the prospect of it on an individual level a bit oppressing.

Instead of on an individual basis I wonder if it could operate on a country or international basis of population control. (Japan gets money for not having as many children- which offsets some of the issues around caring for elderly)

Definitely one of the important things people need to be talking about. While it's heartwarming to see people becoming more conscious of the world around them, it's frustrating that, in many cases, Global Warming is the only issue spoken of.

"Jason,

Exactly how many people was the earth intended to have? Is your source for this number credible? Are there competing opinions about the number?

We need to be responsible stewards of our environment, but Mr. Alexander could perhaps learn a more rational argument for his position."

Richard, I think most could agree the earth is intended to have a population of humans that can balance with the rest of the species on the planet as that is the natural order for other beings. Considering other beings are going extinct at an alarming rate due almost exclusively to us humans displacing them, i think we can come to the conclusion that we are way out of balance and need to be "culled".

Although I don't agree with everything Ghandi said one thing that makes sense to me is "There is enough for everyones need but not enough for everyones greed".

If we all choose to consume as much food as the chubby Mr Alexander then our position is unsustainable. If everyone wishes to live like Al Gore (there is the irony) then we need many planets which we do not have (regardless of the nutter who thinks we should live on Mars).

What needs to happen (but won't) is we all become veggie and live like a third world peasant. Personally that is not an option. If I am lucky I will be here for another 50 years. My lifestyle is governed by my wallet nothing else. I compost, I drive a diesel but if money was no object would I have my own jet. Of course I would and so would everyone else. There might be few freaks who are totally altruistic but I bet they are after something. That is what makes us human. So billions must die but no one lives forever. Yes that is right the 6 billion or so of us are going to die. The tide will have turned when breeders get booed when they announce proudly they have 8 kids. Catholics and muslims usually. So eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die.

Our world really isn't struggling to maintain 6-billion people. The difference is that some societies are more efficient than others. Africa in particular lags ages behind and always has. We produce more than enough food on this planet and actually pay farmers NOT to produce food.

This shouldn't even be an issue of discussion in the Western world. #1: the West isn't contributing to it, and further declining rates of reproduction would seriously damage economic and social prospects for generations. #2: Talk of such implies a sort of imperialism I doubt a lot of you would be comfortable with.

I, for one, am not opposed to imposing moral values on the rest of the world in specific arenas--though this is a pretty low-ranking issue with me. I am, however, a strong believer in individual liberty and would mock anyone who suggested we should place some kind of global cap on the number of children people have.

If you really want to cut population in a country like the US, do away with welfare benefits for having more kids. I work in an inner-city hospital. Almost none of these women have ever had jobs. It's fairly common to see a 25-year old with 5 kids. None of these kids will go on to college, even the state practically throws scholarships at them. Those are the people reproducing in the US--not those who can afford to educate and raise their children well.

Colonizing other planets and mining the asteroid belt... the lunatic fringe speaketh.

Sure, in another couple of centuries, if we make it that far. But we might want to put out the current fire in the basement before planning that second floor bay window, dontcha think?

Most certainly. The planet can't POSSIBLY withstand 6 billion people at the energy consumption rate standard of the "first world". Probably THIS is what you meant, Jason. Ya, probably we should starve the third world (80%) to death so we can have more of everything. Oh, wait.. check, already doing that!

Wake up, (first) world.

Most certainly. The planet can't POSSIBLY withstand 6 billion people at the energy consumption rate standard of the "first world". Probably THIS is what you meant, Jason. Ya, probably we should starve the third world (80%) to death so we can have more of everything. Oh, wait.. check, already doing that!

Wake up, (first) world.

Governments seem to be interested in increasing populations to keep the economy working the way it has for a long long time. This counts on incoming hard working low wages earners. This dependancy in the US seems to keep any politicians from discussing it. It also sounds so "un-American" to ask the citizens to do something responsible. "The free enterprise system fixes all."

Not to go on an anti-Capitalist rant, but it tough even for us Americans, who should damn well be able to look at the facts and see where population is taking us.

I was in Switzerland last year. They have like 7 million people in the whole damn country. And they've been making babies a long dang time.

If 25% of the people who believe we're over populated would kill themselves tonight, we'll have more room by morning. Oh wait we don't mean us, we mean other people should die. Hitler would be proud. Fascist.

With all the curing of diseases occuring and the life expactancy rising, more people are living. I do believe that there is a maxium carrying capacity on the Earth we live on. No matter how rapidly populations grow, the eventually reach a limit posed by shortages of important environmental factors, such as space, light, water, or nutrients. Therefore I believe as we cure disesases and the life expactancy rises, new diseases will spring up trying to leave the survival to the fittest. Bigger, badder dieseaes. Worse than AIDS or cancer, one that will wipe out a good percent of the population.

The world has been experiencing a population explosion of not only people, but farm animals too.

The combined weight of the world's 15 billion farm animals surpasses the weight of the human population by over one and a half times.

This raises the effective non-wild population of Earth from 6.5 billion to 17 billion beings of human-weight equivalent.

So in addition to having less children, please consider eating lower on the food chain.

Source: Meat production's environmental toll.

If George Costanza said it, it must be wrong. I loved the first comment. "more people..."

Wow! A lot of you guys seem hostile towards children! Granted we shouldn't use them as an excuse to push foolish government policy but they really aren't the problem. You guys seem to advocate for awful policies like china's one child policy. Shouldn't people be able to decide for themselves how many children they want? You all should just relax and stop trying to save the world it will manage just fine all on it's own. Humans are just like any other animal if we get too numerous or poison our environment too much, large numbers of us will die off either from disease, famine some other disaster. Problem solved. Nature will find it's own balance. As for meat production I bet it may possible in the near-future to grow a perfect steak in a lab that is healthy on top of tasty.

Wow! A lot of you guys seem hostile towards children! Granted we shouldn't use them as an excuse to push foolish government policy but they really aren't the problem. You guys seem to advocate for awful policies like china's one child policy. Shouldn't people be able to decide for themselves how many children they want? You all should just relax and stop trying to save the world it will manage just fine all on it's own. Humans are just like any other animal if we get too numerous or poison our environment too much, large numbers of us will die off either from disease, famine some other disaster. Problem solved. Nature will find it's own balance. As for meat production I bet it may possible in the near-future to grow a perfect steak in a lab that is healthy on top of tasty.

I could not agree more about controlling population. When I was a young woman there was a lot of talk about Zero Polulation Growth. I did my bit....nature having a say in it. I read in Mother Earth News that the world poplation has doubled since 1950!

If you look at all the problems in the world today you can trace nearly every single one of them back to overpopulation.

We have the intelligence to see what damage too many people have done to our planet and what dangers it poses to our future. But do we have the intelligence to override our biological urge to procreate?

Deliberately childfree here and very proud of it!
I've done my part and have no regrets beyond a sadness at seeing all the mindless breeding around me. The population has doubled since the 1950's, but selfish religious and other types of morons keep breeding their hearts out and lowering the quality of life for EVERYONE with their self-centered myopia and relentless ignorance.

Goddity god ghod, entittlement, me , mine, gimme, I have it coming, my genes are speshul, plenty of room for more, ghod want it this way, it's true because I believe it, etc. THERE.
Think I covered all the rebuttal points, so defensive breeder idiots can save their energy for more ghod-sanctioned unprotected sex, m'kay?
Time will show who is right on this issue, and that right soon.

I have four boys and do not regret them for a second. I will raise them to be socially and environmentally responsible. By not overconsuming! Where do industrialized citizens get off over polluting and consuming and then telling developing countries they can't pollute or have children.

I don't necessarily disagree that too many humans inbalance nature and resources. However why is it new humans and not older humans. People used to die with dignity, now we put them in a home with underpaid, often non caring people to "care" for them because families don't want to be burdened but they want to keep them alive artificially with harmful pharmaceuticals.

Unless you absolutely do everything possible to live sustainably, you have absolutely no right to tell others what they can and cannot not do.

My famiily composts, grows veggies and fruits organically, makes our most of our own food from scratch ie beans and soups and cakes. (this eliminates excess packaging and chemicals added to foods, and is more nutritious), we use fluoresant bulbs in all our lights, we don't leave lights on, use only one computer, we have energy efficient appliances, a 96% energy efficient furnace (most new ones are %80) we eat meat sparingly, we use only truly plant based soaps, shampoos, and detergents. We have a mini van but only drive it a few days a week. I walk to pick up my kids at school, we are conscious of our water use. (yellow let it mellow, brown flush it down) we use only %100 percent post consumer paper and reclycled toilet paper, we use cloth napkins. If we need towels, sheets, t shirts, underwear we buy organically grown cotton or hemp ones. On wednesdays and sundays we don't watch tv, play video games or use the computer. We recycle almost everything and have only one kitchen size garbage bag of garbage per week (for a family of 6!) These are just some of the things we do to lessen our load on mother earth.
We have a ten year plan to lessen it even further by living as close to no "footprint" as possible,with such plans as installing tankless water heater and solar panels, growing 35 percent of our food, and to buy a hybrid (or better) mini van when available.
Please don't tell others what to do until you yourself are doing all you can.
Lindsay
Oregon