Another example of why NYC is headed for a massive and sudden collapse. Such ignorance. Such self absorbed ivory tower idiocy. Such excess and gluttony.

I feel bad for the people who were actually born there. They have to suffer now with the hordes of bridge&tunnel riff raff who have moved in and overrun every aspect of life. Now they must suffer one more indignity in that even the B&T who do not live in the city are still allowed to add to every day impossibility of life, without even a small fee.

I'm not sure if Willy Bio has ever been to NYC, but does he know that Manhattan is just one of five boroughs? Which would make the majority of New Yorkers "bridge and tunnel riff raff"?

I live in Manhattan, and I've lived in several of the outer boroughs (I guess that makes me both riff raff and elitist). Although NYC is famed for its subway, which is well-priced and runs all night, it does not reach all areas. The problem with the congestion plan was that there were not adequate public transportation equivalents for the folks who drive into Manhattan -- specifically those in far Queens and Brooklyn. The city would be forcing the working class people who live in these areas to give up, say, a 40-minute drive for an hour-and-40-minute commute by a combination of buses and trains. In other words, the congestion plan was politically D.O.A.

I suspect that more people would have been persuaded by the plan if the MTA were know for efficiency and honesty -- few New Yorkers expect to see a completed 2nd Avenue subway line in the next ten years, let alone express buses that serve East Flatbush.

This is just the short sightedness, selfishness, and entitlement that I was afraid would paralyze the congestion pricing.

I live in Brooklyn and can get into the city fine. I know people who live in Connecticut and New Jersey and they take either the standard train or PATH train respectively to get into Manhattan everyday. Though the outer lying borough train system is not as extensive as the train system in Manhattan, it is still adequate enough that most people should not need a car. Even people from out of state are able to commute easily without a car.

It is strange however that my neighborhood streets are lined with cars, yet I am a block away from a reliable enough line that goes directly into the city. This shows the selfishness. People say this is their freedom. They don't have to follow a schedule, yet they are tied so ridiculously to the automobile.

The interesting thing about the congestion pricing only allowing the rich to travel into the city is that that statement holds no water, seeing that monthly train fairs are far less expensive than owning a car. It's just people need to realize that the truth at first is inconvenient, however after adapting to a lifestyle of more careful planning they would wonder why they even wasted their time and money on a car to begin with.

There is more and more that can be said...

What can we do to get the bill back on the table???

Just another example of how the public has to take things into their own hands. Government can't help us.
The bureaucracy at the top and middle is stifling.
There is a good discussion thread on this from local points of view on the noreast.com website- "angler's lounge" (off-fishing topics). [There is some pretty heated stuff there too, as well as a discussion on the proposed Broadwater Liquid Natural Gas terminal for Long Island Sound].

Anyway, I bike in to NYC from Brooklyn, 11 miles each way. It is faster than the subway. A bigger reason for my biking is also if you leave later than rush hour, the trains get scarce. Not to complain but that's just the way it is.
Yes there is corruption at all levels, but 'we' New Yorkers were supposed to get over $300MM of Federal $ if we passed the bill. I don't know how much it will take to dig the 2nd Avenue hole for the new subway but I am sure it would have gone towards it. So it's not like we'd be sacrificing for nothing, we'd get fed $ for our contribution as well, I think people don't see that. Better and more service would have more people on the trains and buses.

Much like wind turbines spoiling views, executing birds, and being hazards to navigation, there are points that are valid to varying degrees from all sides.

NY already has a congestion penalty, in the form of time. It can easily take 2 hours to go the 12 mile length of the island during 'rush' hour. Or take an hour to go 5 miles from Brooklyn or Queens. Parking costs are too high. I don't see how people can drive here day in and day out, it's madness. Give me the bike, or at least the motorcycle.

As for sudden collapse? Gas costs will be too high some time soon so I think the cars will start to trickle out little by little. I start to get a little more furious every time I have to turn the key myself.

Bridge and Tunnel Riff Raff? I am a citizen of the world who happens to live in Brooklyn so it doesn't apply to me.
Now as for the 'other' B & T riff raff, ... NYC would collapse without them. Who builds things? Who runs things? Who are the doormen who open the doors for the ignorant fragile self absorbed rich? Who drives the trains and buses? Can a motorman's salary keep you in Manhattan? Who cleans up the place and spends $$ in the local stores? Where do the fresh superorganic wonderful free range veggies come from? Maybe no one should be allowed to live in NYC and it should just be one big office and museum.
When people start whinning and getting all self aggrandizing, there's no civility and intelligence in that.

Good Luck,
vsk

Sorry, I mis-spoke (as is all the political rage these days).
I shouldn't have said pejoratives toward apartment dwellers with doormen staff. Just to say that doormen and building staff perform vital functions of keeping the places safe and running. And not everyone who lives in a doorman building is rich... or self absorbed, etc.

NYC needs the ebb and flow of people who keep it going. To get them in there and out safely, efficiently, and quickly is key.

vsk

The plan was defeated because it wasn't a good plan.

There were insufficient disincentives to discourage motorists from Connecticut, Westchester, New Jersey, Long Island and Pennsylvania from driving in; most would have only paid an additional $2.00, while outer-borough residents, who are, after all New York City residents and New York City taxpayers, would have paid the lion's share of the cost. Coincidentally, New York City residents constitute the smallest percentage of drivers in the city.

All indications are that the Bloomberg plan would not have provided the relief from pollution desired by most residents, and that revenues would have been much lower than projected.

Now is the time for advocates to get together and produce a more comprehensive and more palatable plan to reduce congestion and pollution, to make streets friendlier and safer for pedestrians and bicyclists, and provide for much improved mass transit. I'd love to hear ideas!

http://bettertransitny@blogspot.com

I have to agree with the dissenters on this one. Although I can sympathize with the environmental reasons for congestion pricing, it cannot be denied that this is highly regressive. The wealthy will simply pay it and drive through-thank-you-very-muich. With enforcement not being applicable to people in NJ and CT, its simply not tenable to force those who are least able to pay the bulk of the fees. This works in London because (1) they have better transport and (2) its all the same juristiction.

(I've already sent this into the Mayor's office):

I love the idea of congestion pricing, but also see that it can be regressive/elitist. The rich couldn't care less about paying to drive - they may even start to consider it a way to keep the riff-raff off 'their' streets.

Based on a $10/day starting rate, how about adding things to the pricing plan to make it less regressive and more fair?

Miles per gallon: -$1 per 5mpg over 30mpg rating; $1 per 5mpg under 30mpg.

Sticker price of car: add $1 per $10k over $40k sticker price; -$1 per $10k under $40k sticker price.

Carbon offsets: -$5/day for converted cars (natural gas, battery hybrid, etc.). This is on top of MPG benefits.

Having my Toyota Prius come in at $2/day because of its sticker price, its MPG rating and its hybrid status VS. a Hummer H2 paying $20/day because of its sticker price, low MPG - this is the type of thing that makes congestion pricing more palatable, less regressive and smarter for NYC's long-term carbon future.

Administration would be taken care of when obtaining plate stickers--just enter your car's make/model/year and your EZ pass is programmed with your car's formula. Using a Prius EZ Pass in a Hummer forfeits your vehicle - first offense. Funds should be used for mass-transit and bike lane improvements exclusively. It's easy!

Don't give up on congestion pricing - just make it fair!