Are you prepared to trust the manufacturer when s/he claims that his/her product is safe. Methinks not. This thing of "it's Swiss and can be trusted" is diluted by those products that don't measure up. See for example this blog post about a Zürich souvenir water bottle that started to rust (it has since been replaced by an acceptable product):
http://www.lunchoverip.com/2006/04/the_little_secr.html
I live in Switzerland and am glad to promote Swiss goods, but only if they're good (independently and compared to the competition) and deserve it.

"or any other chemicals which scientists have deemed as potentially harmful."

That's the line that bothers me.

I love the way that the Sigg bottles are designed and was really interested in one, but ultimately went with a Klean Kanteen instead. There is too much ambiguity for me in the response on their website as well as the one you've posted above. I want to know what their lining is made with. I don't see how sharing the contents will give away it's formula. Coke shares it's ingredients, but all the store brand knock-offs in the world can't match their formula.

I was looking at Klean Kanteen too... but I already have a few SIGGs and really wonder if it's not just a waste to make the change at this point.
A friend of mine has a SIGG bottle for over 20 years -- she's perfectly happy and healthy.
But then another guy I know uses Nalgene for years and years and he's in his 80s... healthy again.

Bottom line, I love my SIGGs. They're cute, eh :-)

"as there are many copy-cat manufacturers in the market (most based in China) that would like to get their hands on this formula, our supplier has an agreement with SIGG to keep his formula confidential."

That's what worries me. I understand that by "assuring" us that their bottles are safe and that the copy-cat manufacturers are probably not is good for marketting, but by releasing the liner content and the possible formula, we wouldn't have to worry about poisonous knock-offs.

I received the same pat response from SIGG. WHat is interesting is that they say at the beginning "laboratories around the world conducted regularly" BUT and this is a big BUT, they have no reference to ANY of these regular studies, ONLY the one they paid for. HMMMMM still not good enough fo rme.
Debby

When switching from plastic bottles I looked at both Sigg and Klean Kanteen, I decided to go with Klean Kanteen because it's ALL stainless steel with no lining and also because I don't necessarily think that aluminum is that great, I have my suspicions about it's effects on the body too. As for trusting a company who obviously would not want to lose sales, that would be hard for me to take their "word" for it...

The thing about Sigg is that they are made in Europe and have to comply to strict Euro standards. The standards in Europe are much stronger than the US, not to mention CHINA where manufacturing standards are questionable, as is their energy source and I won't even go into human rights and working conditions. For the record, the liner in a Sigg is Enamel based.

Laken is another Aluminum bottle company in Europe. Spain to be precise. They operate an ISO 9000 factory and use a food-grade epoxy based liner. The same liner that they use in milk trucks. The bottles come out of that factory exceeding FDA standards. The bottles that are here in the states have a wider mouth and threading on the outside. (Think ice cubes and easier to clean)

Think about it gang. These bottles are made in European countries where the health and enviromental standards are much higher AND there is socialized health care. The gov't tends to be much more strict and preventative with these types of things.

Go out and get yourself a Laken or a Sigg.

I had a Sigg for 9 months, and a few weeks ago it started to taste really weird. I have washed it after each use for the entire time I've owned it, but suddenly it just started tasting really strange. And it wasn't the bottled water I was putting in there either. It has a strange taste and strange smell now, I don't know if it's the inner coating that went bad, but the taste is unbearable.

So I'm going to put my Sigg bottle in the recycle bin or garbage tonight, as soon as I figure out where it belongs. I'm using a Snapple glass bottle from now on.

What ever happened to glass? I re-use glass bottles all the time. Everything tastes great out of them and they clean up in a jiffy. No chemical leaching or anything! Best thing is, they were free and will last forever!

All products imported into the EU and intended for food contact must pass EU1935/2004 testing. So any american, or chinese made product sold in europe is at least as safe for you as anything made there.

Note that the EU standards allow for detectable levels of BPA leaching which are considered 'safe'.

for the record, people are completely overreatcing. The amount of BPA in even the worst case exposed to is a fraction of a fraction of what *might* be considered unhealthy. People need to relax.

Or stop drinking from your office water cooler too.

Mary: you put bottled water into another bottle!?! Isn't the point of portable containers is to avoid using bottled water? Please think about getting a Brita.

i dont understand what peoples obsesson with water bottles is anyways. what happened to getting a drink with a glass when your thirsty or water fountain? Why is it that people feel this need to be hydrated constantly? people in the past got by just fine without ALWAYS having some sort of drink on their person at all times.
Even at the club i don't use them, when im thirsty i go to the fountain and get a drink then go back to my workout. You will survive for 30 minutes of excercise without a need to sip every 2 seconds!

Why Sigg is Not Worth The Risk:

FACT:Bisphenol A is an endocrine disruptor. It mimics estrogen.
FACT:Cells that need estrogen to grow will grow in the presence of Bisphenol A
FACT: Breast cancer thrives in an environment rich in estrogen receptive cells.
FACT: Bisphenol A can leach in quantities undetectable by human tools but detectable by an endocrine system
FACT: An endocrine system will respond dramatically to one tenth of one trillionth of a gram of estrogen/Bisphenol A
FACT: this amount of of extra estrogen/Bisphenol A has been known to cause significant growth in the prostate glands of fetal mice in as little as a 24 hour period, a measure of growth that is equivalent to the that which a mans prostate enlarges over a 70 year period.
FACT: our endocrine systems cannot tell the difference between Bisphenol A and Estrogen.
FACT: Sigg tests for Bisphenol A
FACT: Sigg's liner is made of water-based epoxy which they now coincidently refer to as a lacquer
FACT: One ingredient of water based epoxy is Bisphenol A

This is not an issue of knowing or not knowing. This is not an issue of faith. We don't need faith here- we have sound science to work on.

Why take our chances when we have safer alternatives?

I have had this very debate with Steve Wasik, the President of Sigg. His response is a form response and a response that caused me to retire my Sigg bottles to vases.

Wasik came from Chanel. He knows how to make a product sexy. He has no idea nor does he seem to care about what Bisphenol A does or how to effectively test for it. Sigg is hiding ingredients which is a big no no in the green business world. Therefore, they are not green.

Since we are talking vessels and not drinking fountains, glass is the best way to go. If breakage is a concern, #304 Stainless is it.

For more comprehensive info, read the PBS interview with the scientist who blew the cover on Bisphenol A 10 years ago, Dr Fredrick vom Saal.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/nature/interviews/vomsaal.html

Amelia Royko Maurer
Founder
http://www.freemarketorganics.com

The issue with the SIGG bottles is that BPA is a component of epoxy, and epoxy is what they use to make their liner.

The CEO does a masterful job of skirting around the issue without addressing it.

The only reason there is a hint of change from the CEO is because a collection of green business owners are taking SIGG to task about their bottles. These owners are an educated group, and are not the sheep SIGG is probably used to dealing with.

Not to mention, relying on the FDA for up-to-date and modern testing standards is simply silly. They are a slow moving, government agency that is slow to adopt the most recent information available.

Use a Brita? Now why would one do that? The container for Brita is loaded with BPA most likey and the filter is expensive to replace and only filters a fraction of what needs to be filtered.

Get a real water filter - like a New Wave Enviro 10 Stage unit - fraction of the cost and does the job well. Or a Watts Zero waste RO filter.

If I dont get a clear story from a manufacturer - there is a reason behind it to me - what is SIGG's? They may be scared of what happened to Nalgene and they may be next if they disclose that their lining is plastic. - is it? I dont know - my guess is likely yes.

I've used and sold Klean Kanteens for 3 years - they have some minor issues but overall they are a great bottle. The best I have seen to date - I keep looking for a USA based bottle...none yet...

If you'd like to view some Klean Kanteens, take a gander here -
http://www.healthegoods.com/kleankanteenstainlesssteelwaterbottle.htm

If you have any questions, do email me.

Best
Ben Lynch ND

LA: Brita containers are styrene, not polycarbonate, and contain no BPA.

I have to agree w/previous poster: European standards are much more stringent and a zero-rating has meaning. That said, we've done Klean Kanteens at home, and find both those and our Siggs to be equal from a use-standpoint.

The Nalgene effect is creating a strange environment, so I'm thankful for Treehugger and other outlets for keeping us thinking.

Hi! A few months ago I was exploring the "best water bottle" choices. I bought a regular Sigg in 2002 and the inside of the lining has started to bubble up... I have stopped using it for fear of leaching!

After reading loads of reviews, I got SIGGs new 100% steel bottle. It is called the hot&cool bottle. While it actually looks like their regular bottles, it has somewhat thick steel to help insulate cold and heat. My icy smoothies stay cold for about 4 hours. My hot things like soup for about 2. This steel bottle is about 0.5 liters.

It has NO lining in it! Just 100% pure steel. I read reviews about Klean Kanteen but several people said they leaked (design flaw with the lid). I knew that the Sigg bottles have great design, so I went for it and am VERY happy.

http://www.rei.com/product/768259
http://www.mysigg.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=485

-Kelly

I like my KK bottles, and they do not leak. I do not like that they are made in China, but I have also been told you have to look carefully at Sigg bottles. They will claim to be Swiss Made, but then they are actually made in China, as stated on the bottom of the bottle. I have not seen this first hand. I do worry about the epoxy liner, as it is impossible to inspect the inside of a bottle,and then aluminum could be leaching into your water.

Here's what Sigg told me when I questioned them:
http://ecochildsplay.com/2007/03/14/sigg-update/

Sigg's new stainless bottles are made in China too. They hide the origin on the bottom of the plastic box they are (over) packaged in. They then fit the bottles with a "Swiss Made" labeled plastic cap . . . all VERY deceptive, but as with the resin liner, transparency is not their thing. I'd bet the way they package these new bottles is also a violation of strict Swiss laws regarding what can claim "Swiss Made" status.

Nevertheless, the very fact that they are introducing stainless bottles leads me to suspect that, like Nalgene, they see the writing on the wall, and are just unwilling to be forthright about anything until they have their "new and improved" products ready to go. I'd be more concerned about what happens when the lining is scratched or delaminates, as that leaves you with bare aluminum . . . which ain't good.

On another note, quality-wise, Sigg bottles are often touted as being high quality by virtue of their Swiss origin. This is far from the truth. Using aluminum, they are actually a very cheap way to make a beverage bottle, as the process can be automated and the material is cheaper (i.e. that's why they put soda in aluminum cans). The reason Sigg bottles have this controversial lining is because Aluminum is not a good choice for foods. The fancy multi-color sublimation graphics that some people love and others loathe actually costs about as much as the bottle itself. In short, the whole quality thing is largely hype, though the knockoffs are pretty bad by comparison.

Guyot is now in bed with Nalgene, purveyors of all things plastic, which is a bit of a shock since they always seemed to be the most environmental outfit of the bunch (carbon offsets etc). That leaves Klean Kanteen and other stainless bottle makers in possession of the field.

Are you sure about Brita pitchers having BPA?

This site says:

"Although Brita filters are made from plastic, I was not able to find a #7 on my container at home. So we called the company to find out what type of plastic their pitchers are made from. A company representative tells us that there are 2 main parts to the pitchers. The clear bottom part which holds the filtered water is made from 100% styrene acrylonitrile and the reservoir part of the pitcher (as well as the filter canister which goes inside) is made of 100% polypropylene. Therefore, it appears that Brita filter pitchers do not contain any polycarbonate plastic and are not made from the same material as Nalgene or Avent baby bottles."
http://www.simplesteps.org/content/view/159/

Does anyone know about the aluminum bottles marketed for kids with the "Tyrrell Katz" brand name? The label also says "epoxy inner coating", but I can't find any more info on the web site, or where they are manufactured.

Thanks!