Volkswagen to Introduce 70 mpg Diesel-Electric Hybrid Golf

Don't hold your breath. VW can't deliver the cars that it promised THREE YEARS AGO. If you ever see this in North America, it will be in 2019.

The diesel Lupo gets 50mpg RIGHT NOW. Can't get it in America either.

Go electric. I just read about Phoenix Motorcars or Miles Electronic Vehicles at
sattlerclothing.com/blog/

Sounds promising. Although I wouldn't get your hopes up. This could be just another marketing campaign to create the illusion that the company is doing something for the environment. What I find funny about all this talk about CAFE standards and fuel economy is that the people who are pushing this technology are really missing the whole boat. We need to stop using petroleum fuel all together. Biodiesel isn't any better unless it's like b85 or b100. Good luck finding those blends at your local gas station. We need all electric vehicles and require utility companies to offer renewable electricity options to all customers so that you can charge your vehicle with green energy.

"We need all electric vehicles and require utility companies to offer renewable electricity options to all customers so that you can charge your vehicle with green energy."

I totally agree with you, but in the meantime, while affordable and practical EVs aren't available, it's a good idea to burn less fossil fuels.

This is fantastic. Let the diesel-hybrid revolution begin.

Diesel is what we have to bridge the gap until electric cars are viable. To quote Johan de Nysschen of Audi "if 25% of the cars just roughly speaking that are purchased per year in the US were diesel powered – just by virtue of the fuel consumption benefits derived from diesel – we would save enough fuel to eliminate our oil imports from the whole of Saudi Arabia! Roughly speaking…"

PLEASE GOD BE TRUE! I'm so sick of paying for gas.

As a current user of biodiesel (waste oil based biodiesel, that is) in a VW Jetta TDI, this is exactly the car I want. And if I can find someone willing to convert it to plug-in hybrid, all the better.

Here is a bit to chew on. The energy in a gallon of gasoline is equivalent to 33.69 kilowatt hours. In my area a kilowatt hour is worth about ten cents on the grid. So, if I burned gasoline with 100% efficiency, a gallon of gasoline would be worth $3.37, about what it is worth today. However, we can only get about 25% efficiency by burning it in a car. So that gallon should really be worth one fourth of what it is, or about $.84. If plug ins were 75% efficient, the cost per mile driven would be about one third the cost of driving on gasoline at todays prices ($3.37 per gallon) (do the math yourself - it's good for your brain). There should be enough economic incentive now for a plugin (realizing that you may get only about 50 to 100 miles per day out of it). The price of oil is way too high for what is worth especially when you consider the war cost and the environmental costs. What we need to do is become the alpha consumer and just go out and buy or build our own plugins. People are doing it. You just need to find them. Energy conversion information found at: http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html

Bob, one thing to take into consideration is that electric cars are often pretty light (not big engine, transmission, etc -- the battery pack can be heavy, but still lighter than what it replaces). So EVs can be even more efficient.

Sounds good. Ship it then !

I can't wait till the volt comes out, because once that happens there's really nothing limiting what kind of engine (or generator, as they like to call it), because only the electric drives the wheels, so you can put a gas, diesel, ethanol, or fuel cell engine on top of it with no issue. Plus, the engine always runs at peak effiency, as opposed to even today's PHEVs, where the engine doesn't always run at it's peak efficency.

BTW, I know on average diesels run at ~20% higher efficency, but what is the maximum efficency comparison?

On the highway, over HALF your power is going to fighting wind resistance. I would like to see more aerodynamic cars.

I wouldn't mind if windows couldn't be open except maybe the driver's window. I would like them use cameras and screens instead of mirrors. The cost isnt' that high and would be offset by the the windows. Besides, the drag from the side mirrors probably pays for the camera system within a few years. The issues with cameras can be worked out if they want to put in the effort.

All of you are commenting on "what we need to do." That's great. I agree. You could also try to comment on how the 80% of the american public, that is living paycheck to paycheck, who have car payments already, who are commuting over 100 miles per day, are going to pay for the major overhaul in infrastructure. I personally thought the VW announcement was a positive one, but moving towards green tech just doesn't seem enough for those of you posting comments. Also, when you plug in an EV, the grid is now responsible for your home AND your car (x the number of households in the US). Of course we need to move towards a carbon-neutral footprint, but noone (maybe one) said anything about how nice it is to see the "evil corporations" getting on board with fuel efficiency. Nor was there a comment on how we need to focus on the MAJORITY of consumers (who don't have large amounts of expendable income); to give THEM access to clean tech. So. Moral of story: focus "what we need to do" discussions on what we can do right now, and don't use a report on good technology to fantasize on infrastructure advancements that are unlikely to manifest @ your desired pace.

Please, stop reprinting press releases as if they were news. This is vaporware. Given VW's track record, believe it when you see the actual car for sale on the lot.

"The diesel Lupo gets 50mpg RIGHT NOW. Can't get it in America either."

VWs diesel engines don't meet US emission standards so we can't get any VW diesel cars at the moment. The Passat is scheduled to be offered with a US compliant diesel engine starting in mid-2008. If demand is there then they will offer diesel in other models.

@DAWSONMI: Agree wholeheartedly. Plug-in hybrids powered from a cold-fusion power grid will be great but I still need to drive my car for the next 50+ years.

Nice article, save ecology with eficiency gas , I have a lot abbot vw http://lovelybeetle.blogspot.com

Dawsonmi, I think it is great that VW is coming out with their car. Gasoline cars can come in handy if you need to drive for extended distances. My comment was only that plug ins are economically feasible now. Not ten years from now. There is less maintenance on the engine (there is none), there is less cost for fuel, there is 1/3 as much carbon dioxide per mile, even on coal. There are people converting their cars to plugins. When I have a little more time I'll perhaps list it here - in the mean time do your own search. Alpha consumers usually have money so your comment about serving the needs of people that don't have money doesn't really matter. The point is it is the alpha consumer that drives the market and causes these products to be mass produced. If we don't do it no one will.

@saintchuck: not true. I drive a VW Jetta TDI that runs on Diesel or Bio-diesel and has gotten about 40MPG on average over the two years that I've had it. And, I live in the US and just went into a VW dealer and ordered it.

John, if you don't care about what's in the pipeline, don't read about it. Nobody's forcing you.

I like to hear about stuff while it's in development and before it appears at the corner store. So keep up the good work TH!

One more story about somethiung we can't get here. Hooray!

I hate to say it, but Bob's right about the Alpha consumer. Part of the basics of supply & demand. Heck look at Honda's FCX Clarity - slated at a limited lease program in California (go figure) at $600/month. No average Joe like me could consider that.

Honestly, I think the semi truck companies (Peterbilt, Kenworth, Volvo, Mack, etc) will bring their hybrid diesels onto the US roads quite a while before pre-orders are even taken for the Rabbit diesel hybrid, but I do hope that they continue down that direction.

Dawsonmi, I think it is great that VW is coming out with their car. Gasoline cars can come in handy if you need to drive for extended distances. My comment was only that plug ins are economically feasible now. Not ten years from now. There is less maintenance on the engine (there is none), there is less cost for fuel, there is 1/3 as much carbon dioxide per mile, even on coal. There are people converting their cars to plugins. When I have a little more time I'll perhaps list it here - in the mean time do your own search. Alpha consumers usually have money so your comment about serving the needs of people that don't have money doesn't really matter. The point is it is the alpha consumer that drives the market and causes these products to be mass produced. If we don't do it no one will.

First if all, I am really worried about the cost of new tier 2 bin 5 diesels. I am especially worried about more complicated hybrid diesels.

If you are going to spend more money on a hybrid, it might as well be a Range Extended Electric Vehicle (REEV or PHEV). I only need a range of 25 miles to get to and from work

Consumers are fooled by the 15% higher Energy Densities of diesel fuel, which means more CO2 and other pollutants then consumers, think. Diesel looses in the Well to Wheel efficiency, so it does not matter how good MPG looks. They also don’t realize that diesel in the US is more expensive then cleaner gas especially in the winter when there is high demand for heating oil in the east. Even with T2B5, diesel produces a lot of particulate matter, which is the most hazardous to health than any other pollutants. Right?

If otherwise, post a non-bias sorce so we can learn.

If the VW has a plug, I would not car, because most of the time I would be filling up with clean, cheap Californian electricity. But if it is going to plug-in, then you might as well ditch the expense and extra weight of the diesel block, turbo, intercooler, and exhaust treatment filters and go with gas.

Step in the right direction. For healthcare reasons will they also be noting how much EMF's the electric motor emits?

Waite, waite the average America buyer wants a hot rod by comparison of cars 25 years ago. I guess I'll stick to my 86 golf Diesel. 69hp and 98 torque and 58mpg at 60mph. Lots of fine tuning, high ratio tranny. I hope to replace this car one day but I don't see much thats any better. I don't race to the next stop light.

Hey Brody,

Care to backup your statement about gas being better (???) than gas in WTW? You know, with some links? Care to do it regarding hybrid technology? You know, links to studies showing diesel hybrids will be worse than gas hybrids in WTW.

How about those studies that included embodied energy of building the car to begin with, factoring in expected usable life? You know, like how diesel cars are rated at lasting 3-4X longer than a gas equivalent. Yes, 300-400%. I guess you can post links which dispute that?

Back it up.

Cost is a huge barrier to the average consumer wanting high efficiency cars.

Consider a person who drives 15,000 miles a year with a car that gets 25mpg. Gas is costing him $1890 a year when it's selling for $3.15/gallon.

If he switched to a car that got 60 mpg, it would save him just over $1100 per year.

How much would a person who is short on cash be willing to pay up front for this savings? My guess is not more than $3300 ( a 3 year recovery). I don't know of any current high efficiency car that is anywhere near this price differential compared to a lower efficiency but otherwise comparable car.

The equation will change if gas prices go up a lot. If gas tripled in price, you'd save $3300 a year. Now someone might pay an extra $10,000 for a high efficiency car.

But until gas prices get this high ( approaching $10 per gallon) the market forces will not be there for more expensive high efficiency cars.

The only other possible motivation for such cars would be if our fuel supply got undependable or we had some sort of rationing.

If someone develops a high efficiency car that is comparable with other available cars in room, comfort, safety and price, that would be a different kettle of fish.

Oops, typo above. I meant your statement that gas is better than diesel in WTW.

I think "saintchuck" meant to say that an E85 ethanol compatible Passat was coming out in 2008, not a diesel. Yes, I have a VW TDI (turbo diesel) also.

I think hybrids are a great idea, but how about they make one that is actually realistic for a family. A family that has kids in car seats. Not a Toyota Prius that can only fit 2 adults in the front and 2 middle-aged kids in the back.

Or what about the Toyota IQ? If that got into a wreck, I would hate to see the end result. The only way that car would come out ok in a wreck and the driver/passengers didn't die is if it crashed into a bike.

Japan has made a Toyota minivan that seats seven. That is the definition of a practical hybrid. Enough room for all the kids, and room for groceries, soccer gear, bookbags etc.

Like I have said in the past, people won't make the change to go green if it is such a hassle. A great example of this: I just spent 90 dollars on replacing all my bulbs with CFL's. No one ever mentioned that the only place I can dispose of them is over a 45 minute drive away! Being green is a grea idea, but organizations need to actually think things completely through. Otherwise peolpe will just throw CFL's in the trash instead of doing what's right.

I don't understand the criticism of small cars not being enough for those with a family. People in Europe and other parts of the world drive cars much smaller than Americans on average and they seem to raise families just fine. Do we Americans just have too much stuff we drag everywhere with our families (video games, DVDs, books, etc.)? Or are families in America larger on average than the rest of the world?

Thomas, I don't know about family size, but I believe that we do drag around more stuff than the rest of the world, because we have more stuff to drag around. However, there may be more to it than that.

When my son was born, my wife suggested I should get something larger than my Ford Focus. I told her that I didn't need to for exactly the reason you mention, and the Focust is one of the most popular "family cars" in Europe. Well, I am now looking for a larger car. When I installed my son's child seat in my car it woudn't fit in the rear facing position without moving the front seat all the way forward. It is okay so far because I haven't had to carry him anywhere with anyone else in the car, but if I had a passenger in the front, they would be forced uncomfortably close to the airbag, so it may be trading one person's safety for another's.

Additionally, the child seats now are so wide, that you couldn't get more than two in the back seat of a small car, and since it is now recommended that a child be in a safety seat until they are something like 8 years old, if a couple has three children, it is likely that they can not fit them all into a compact car properly restrained as recommended.

I can't imagine that European child seats are any smaller than ours, so I assume that because of the higher price of fuel, they just have to accept the risk and inconvenience of the smaller vehicles.

Thank you gl, I appreciate your insight.

I am happy with my Hummer!

Too bad we can't get the Polo over here. I had the pleasure of renting one while stationed in Germany for a couple of weeks and was amazed at how well it rode and at the fuel economy it returned. I can just imagine how well a diesel/hybrid can do on the highway.

Another breakthrough that is not originating in the US.

VW already make the POLO Bluemotion 2dr all diesel car that gets 60mpg and "it is all diesel" and less co2 than the prius as well, this seems rather silly. I wish they sold the polo here in the states.

Remember that 40% of trips are 2 miles or less. Even with an electric car you use a lot of energy and don't address the consumption in the cars production, shipping, and disposal. Also, it does nothing to address congestion. How about a vehicle that is far less expensive, easy to use, doesn't require much infrastructure, has zero emissions, and runs on peanut butter.... THE BICYCLE!!!!!!

We are going to have a third child this fall. Can't fit the 3rd car seat in the back of our subaru forester. What 7 seat vehicle has the highest mpg?

I believe the new Toyota Highlander Hybid SUV has a 3rd row seat.

Regarding the quote "I think hybrids are a great idea, but how about they make one that is actually realistic for a family"

This is a typical American comment - and it sums up the problem - Americans will not give up 'big'. The Prius has tons of room - I'm 6'3 and I fit comfortably in the back of Prius - I just rode in one last week!

Then there's the myth of the safe SUV. The roads are less safe because of large cars and SUVs, not more safe.

Finally, there's the myth of cars being the problem. Big everytyhing is the problem - big houses especially. Overheating and overcooling and overbuilding and furnishing your 4000 square foot glass box is unsustainable. I live in a 1500 square foot house with my spouse and a roommate. And we have an empty bedroom!! How can we live in such a tiny cramped house???

regarding running bicycles on peanut butter - I'm all for more biking but human power is incredibly inefficient. Turning the food you eat into power is a nightmare only mitigated by the fact that your bicycle is so lightweight. I'll let someone less lazy do the math on peanut butter calories made equivalent to the energy in gasoline or off the electricity grid.

Here in Portland, Oregon, riding a bike to the grocery store is a dangerous proposition as well - few bike lanes and rude and/or oblivious drivers. How about instead of poring billions into light rail and other transit - we create protected commuting corridors for bicycles and electric ultralightweight two seater cars.

I love the VW Rabbit TDI Diesel Hybrid because it combines the newest, most efficient type of combustion engine (clean-diesel) with the benefits of regenerative energy recycling (hybrid), all without resorting to some low slung, cramped design (Civic) or overly-wedgey shape (Prius). If VW can offer this model SOON while getting quality up, it will be a great 'people's car'.