Volkswagen to Introduce 70 mpg Diesel-Electric Hybrid Golf

Don't hold your breath. VW can't deliver the cars that it promised THREE YEARS AGO. If you ever see this in North America, it will be in 2019.

The diesel Lupo gets 50mpg RIGHT NOW. Can't get it in America either.

Go electric. I just read about Phoenix Motorcars or Miles Electronic Vehicles at
sattlerclothing.com/blog/

Sounds promising. Although I wouldn't get your hopes up. This could be just another marketing campaign to create the illusion that the company is doing something for the environment. What I find funny about all this talk about CAFE standards and fuel economy is that the people who are pushing this technology are really missing the whole boat. We need to stop using petroleum fuel all together. Biodiesel isn't any better unless it's like b85 or b100. Good luck finding those blends at your local gas station. We need all electric vehicles and require utility companies to offer renewable electricity options to all customers so that you can charge your vehicle with green energy.

"We need all electric vehicles and require utility companies to offer renewable electricity options to all customers so that you can charge your vehicle with green energy."

I totally agree with you, but in the meantime, while affordable and practical EVs aren't available, it's a good idea to burn less fossil fuels.

This is fantastic. Let the diesel-hybrid revolution begin.

Diesel is what we have to bridge the gap until electric cars are viable. To quote Johan de Nysschen of Audi "if 25% of the cars just roughly speaking that are purchased per year in the US were diesel powered – just by virtue of the fuel consumption benefits derived from diesel – we would save enough fuel to eliminate our oil imports from the whole of Saudi Arabia! Roughly speaking…"

PLEASE GOD BE TRUE! I'm so sick of paying for gas.

As a current user of biodiesel (waste oil based biodiesel, that is) in a VW Jetta TDI, this is exactly the car I want. And if I can find someone willing to convert it to plug-in hybrid, all the better.

Here is a bit to chew on. The energy in a gallon of gasoline is equivalent to 33.69 kilowatt hours. In my area a kilowatt hour is worth about ten cents on the grid. So, if I burned gasoline with 100% efficiency, a gallon of gasoline would be worth $3.37, about what it is worth today. However, we can only get about 25% efficiency by burning it in a car. So that gallon should really be worth one fourth of what it is, or about $.84. If plug ins were 75% efficient, the cost per mile driven would be about one third the cost of driving on gasoline at todays prices ($3.37 per gallon) (do the math yourself - it's good for your brain). There should be enough economic incentive now for a plugin (realizing that you may get only about 50 to 100 miles per day out of it). The price of oil is way too high for what is worth especially when you consider the war cost and the environmental costs. What we need to do is become the alpha consumer and just go out and buy or build our own plugins. People are doing it. You just need to find them. Energy conversion information found at: http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/misc/energy_conv.html

Bob, one thing to take into consideration is that electric cars are often pretty light (not big engine, transmission, etc -- the battery pack can be heavy, but still lighter than what it replaces). So EVs can be even more efficient.

Sounds good. Ship it then !

I can't wait till the volt comes out, because once that happens there's really nothing limiting what kind of engine (or generator, as they like to call it), because only the electric drives the wheels, so you can put a gas, diesel, ethanol, or fuel cell engine on top of it with no issue. Plus, the engine always runs at peak effiency, as opposed to even today's PHEVs, where the engine doesn't always run at it's peak efficency.

BTW, I know on average diesels run at ~20% higher efficency, but what is the maximum efficency comparison?

On the highway, over HALF your power is going to fighting wind resistance. I would like to see more aerodynamic cars.

I wouldn't mind if windows couldn't be open except maybe the driver's window. I would like them use cameras and screens instead of mirrors. The cost isnt' that high and would be offset by the the windows. Besides, the drag from the side mirrors probably pays for the camera system within a few years. The issues with cameras can be worked out if they want to put in the effort.

All of you are commenting on "what we need to do." That's great. I agree. You could also try to comment on how the 80% of the american public, that is living paycheck to paycheck, who have car payments already, who are commuting over 100 miles per day, are going to pay for the major overhaul in infrastructure. I personally thought the VW announcement was a positive one, but moving towards green tech just doesn't seem enough for those of you posting comments. Also, when you plug in an EV, the grid is now responsible for your home AND your car (x the number of households in the US). Of course we need to move towards a carbon-neutral footprint, but noone (maybe one) said anything about how nice it is to see the "evil corporations" getting on board with fuel efficiency. Nor was there a comment on how we need to focus on the MAJORITY of consumers (who don't have large amounts of expendable income); to give THEM access to clean tech. So. Moral of story: focus "what we need to do" discussions on what we can do right now, and don't use a report on good technology to fantasize on infrastructure advancements that are unlikely to manifest @ your desired pace.

Please, stop reprinting press releases as if they were news. This is vaporware. Given VW's track record, believe it when you see the actual car for sale on the lot.

"The diesel Lupo gets 50mpg RIGHT NOW. Can't get it in America either."

VWs diesel engines don't meet US emission standards so we can't get any VW diesel cars at the moment. The Passat is scheduled to be offered with a US compliant diesel engine starting in mid-2008. If demand is there then they will offer diesel in other models.

@DAWSONMI: Agree wholeheartedly. Plug-in hybrids powered from a cold-fusion power grid will be great but I still need to drive my car for the next 50+ years.

Nice article, save ecology with eficiency gas , I have a lot abbot vw http://lovelybeetle.blogspot.com

Dawsonmi, I think it is great that VW is coming out with their car. Gasoline cars can come in handy if you need to drive for extended distances. My comment was only that plug ins are economically feasible now. Not ten years from now. There is less maintenance on the engine (there is none), there is less cost for fuel, there is 1/3 as much carbon dioxide per mile, even on coal. There are people converting their cars to plugins. When I have a little more time I'll perhaps list it here - in the mean time do your own search. Alpha consumers usually have money so your comment about serving the needs of people that don't have money doesn't really matter. The point is it is the alpha consumer that drives the market and causes these products to be mass produced. If we don't do it no one will.

@saintchuck: not true. I drive a VW Jetta TDI that runs on Diesel or Bio-diesel and has gotten about 40MPG on average over the two years that I've had it. And, I live in the US and just went into a VW dealer and ordered it.

John, if you don't care about what's in the pipeline, don't read about it. Nobody's forcing you.

I like to hear about stuff while it's in development and before it appears at the corner store. So keep up the good work TH!

One more story about somethiung we can't get here. Hooray!

I hate to say it, but Bob's right about the Alpha consumer. Part of the basics of supply & demand. Heck look at Honda's FCX Clarity - slated at a limited lease program in California (go figure) at $600/month. No average Joe like me could consider that.

Honestly, I think the semi truck companies (Peterbilt, Kenworth, Volvo, Mack, etc) will bring their hybrid diesels onto the US roads quite a while before pre-orders are even taken for the Rabbit diesel hybrid, but I do hope that they continue down that direction.

Dawsonmi, I think it is great that VW is coming out with their car. Gasoline cars can come in handy if you need to drive for extended distances. My comment was only that plug ins are economically feasible now. Not ten years from now. There is less maintenance on the engine (there is none), there is less cost for fuel, there is 1/3 as much carbon dioxide per mile, even on coal. There are people converting their cars to plugins. When I have a little more time I'll perhaps list it here - in the mean time do your own search. Alpha consumers usually have money so your comment about serving the needs of people that don't have money doesn't really matter. The point is it is the alpha consumer that drives the market and causes these products to be mass produced. If we don't do it no one will.

First if all, I am really worried about the cost of new tier 2 bin 5 diesels. I am especially worried about more complicated hybrid diesels.

If you are going to spend more money on a hybrid, it might as well be a Range Extended Electric Vehicle (REEV or PHEV). I only need a range of 25 miles to get to and from work

Consumers are fooled by the 15% higher Energy Densities of diesel fuel, which means more CO2 and other pollutants then consumers, think. Diesel looses in the Well to Wheel efficiency, so it does not matter how good MPG looks. They also don’t realize that diesel in the US is more expensive then cleaner gas especially in the winter when there is high demand for heating oil in the east. Even with T2B5, diesel produces a lot of particulate matter, which is the most hazardous to health than any other pollutants. Right?

If otherwise, post a non-bias sorce so we can learn.

If the VW has a plug, I would not car, because most of the time I would be filling up with clean, cheap Californian electricity. But if it is going to plug-in, then you might as well ditch the expense and extra weight of the diesel block, turbo, intercooler, and exhaust treatment filters and go with gas.

Step in the right direction. For healthcare reasons will they also be noting how much EMF's the electric motor emits?

Waite, waite the average America buyer wants a hot rod by comparison of cars 25 years ago. I guess I'll stick to my 86 golf Diesel. 69hp and 98 torque and 58mpg at 60mph. Lots of fine tuning, high ratio tranny. I hope to replace this car one day but I don't see much thats any better. I don't race to the next stop light.

Hey Brody,

Care to backup your statement about gas being better (???) than gas in WTW? You know, with some links? Care to do it regarding hybrid technology? You know, links to studies showing diesel hybrids will be worse than gas hybrids in WTW.

How about those studies that included embodied energy of building the car to begin with, factoring in expected usable life? You know, like how diesel cars are rated at lasting 3-4X longer than a gas equivalent. Yes, 300-400%. I guess you can post links which dispute that?

Back it up.

Cost is a huge barrier to the average consumer wanting high efficiency cars.

Consider a person who drives 15,000 miles a year with a car that gets 25mpg. Gas is costing him $1890 a year when it's selling for $3.15/gallon.

If he switched to a car that got 60 mpg, it would save him just over $1100 per year.

How much would a person who is short on cash be willing to pay up front for this savings? My guess is not more than $3300 ( a 3 year recovery). I don't know of any current high efficiency car that is anywhere near this price differential compared to a lower efficiency but otherwise comparable car.

The equation will change if gas prices go up a lot. If gas tripled in price, you'd save $3300 a year. Now someone might pay an extra $10,000 for a high efficiency car.

But until gas prices get this high ( approaching $10 per gallon) the market forces will not be there for more expensive high efficiency cars.

The only other possible motivation for such cars would be if our fuel supply got undependable or we had some sort of rationing.

If someone develops a high efficiency car that is comparable with other available cars in room, comfort, safety and price, that would be a different kettle of fish.

Oops, typo above. I meant your statement that gas is better than diesel in WTW.

I think "saintchuck" meant to say that an E85 ethanol compatible Passat was coming out in 2008, not a diesel. Yes, I have a VW TDI (turbo diesel) also.

I think hybrids are a great idea, but how about they make one that is actually realistic for a family. A family that has kids in car seats. Not a Toyota Prius that can only fit 2 adults in the front and 2 middle-aged kids in the back.

Or what about the Toyota IQ? If that got into a wreck, I would hate to see the end result. The only way that car would come out ok in a wreck and the driver/passengers didn't die is if it crashed into a bike.

Japan has made a Toyota minivan that seats seven. That is the definition of a practical hybrid. Enough room for all the kids, and room for groceries, soccer gear, bookbags etc.

Like I have said in the past, people won't make the change to go green if it is such a hassle. A great example of this: I just spent 90 dollars on replacing all my bulbs with CFL's. No one ever mentioned that the only place I can dispose of them is over a 45 minute drive away! Being green is a grea idea, but organizations need to actually think things completely through. Otherwise peolpe will just throw CFL's in the trash instead of doing what's right.

I don't understand the criticism of small cars not being enough for those with a family. People in Europe and other parts of the world drive cars much smaller than Americans on average and they seem to raise families just fine. Do we Americans just have too much stuff we drag everywhere with our families (video games, DVDs, books, etc.)? Or are families in America larger on average than the rest of the world?

Thomas, I don't know about family size, but I believe that we do drag around more stuff than the rest of the world, because we have more stuff to drag around. However, there may be more to it than that.

When my son was born, my wife suggested I should get something larger than my Ford Focus. I told her that I didn't need to for exactly the reason you mention, and the Focust is one of the most popular "family cars" in Europe. Well, I am now looking for a larger car. When I installed my son's child seat in my car it woudn't fit in the rear facing position without moving the front seat all the way forward. It is okay so far because I haven't had to carry him anywhere with anyone else in the car, but if I had a passenger in the front, they would be forced uncomfortably close to the airbag, so it may be trading one person's safety for another's.

Additionally, the child seats now are so wide, that you couldn't get more than two in the back seat of a small car, and since it is now recommended that a child be in a safety seat until they are something like 8 years old, if a couple has three children, it is likely that they can not fit them all into a compact car properly restrained as recommended.

I can't imagine that European child seats are any smaller than ours, so I assume that because of the higher price of fuel, they just have to accept the risk and inconvenience of the smaller vehicles.

Thank you gl, I appreciate your insight.

I am happy with my Hummer!

Too bad we can't get the Polo over here. I had the pleasure of renting one while stationed in Germany for a couple of weeks and was amazed at how well it rode and at the fuel economy it returned. I can just imagine how well a diesel/hybrid can do on the highway.

Another breakthrough that is not originating in the US.

VW already make the POLO Bluemotion 2dr all diesel car that gets 60mpg and "it is all diesel" and less co2 than the prius as well, this seems rather silly. I wish they sold the polo here in the states.

Remember that 40% of trips are 2 miles or less. Even with an electric car you use a lot of energy and don't address the consumption in the cars production, shipping, and disposal. Also, it does nothing to address congestion. How about a vehicle that is far less expensive, easy to use, doesn't require much infrastructure, has zero emissions, and runs on peanut butter.... THE BICYCLE!!!!!!

We are going to have a third child this fall. Can't fit the 3rd car seat in the back of our subaru forester. What 7 seat vehicle has the highest mpg?

I believe the new Toyota Highlander Hybid SUV has a 3rd row seat.

Regarding the quote "I think hybrids are a great idea, but how about they make one that is actually realistic for a family"

This is a typical American comment - and it sums up the problem - Americans will not give up 'big'. The Prius has tons of room - I'm 6'3 and I fit comfortably in the back of Prius - I just rode in one last week!

Then there's the myth of the safe SUV. The roads are less safe because of large cars and SUVs, not more safe.

Finally, there's the myth of cars being the problem. Big everytyhing is the problem - big houses especially. Overheating and overcooling and overbuilding and furnishing your 4000 square foot glass box is unsustainable. I live in a 1500 square foot house with my spouse and a roommate. And we have an empty bedroom!! How can we live in such a tiny cramped house???

regarding running bicycles on peanut butter - I'm all for more biking but human power is incredibly inefficient. Turning the food you eat into power is a nightmare only mitigated by the fact that your bicycle is so lightweight. I'll let someone less lazy do the math on peanut butter calories made equivalent to the energy in gasoline or off the electricity grid.

Here in Portland, Oregon, riding a bike to the grocery store is a dangerous proposition as well - few bike lanes and rude and/or oblivious drivers. How about instead of poring billions into light rail and other transit - we create protected commuting corridors for bicycles and electric ultralightweight two seater cars.

I love the VW Rabbit TDI Diesel Hybrid because it combines the newest, most efficient type of combustion engine (clean-diesel) with the benefits of regenerative energy recycling (hybrid), all without resorting to some low slung, cramped design (Civic) or overly-wedgey shape (Prius). If VW can offer this model SOON while getting quality up, it will be a great 'people's car'.

Greetings from Europe.

In response of people wondering what we do here when we have 3 children: Then (and only then) we change one of our cars to a "monovolume" (aka MPV, and somewhat similar to a minivan). Those may have 3 lines of seats, yet being shorter than 4.5m (about 14.5 feet). With diesel, you may have quite weighty cars and still keep consumption low, at a reasonable price. Example: Citroen C4 Grand Picasso diesel 110bhp automatic, 150gCO2/km - there are many other models. That's plenty of power (remember that diesels & robotic automatics need less bhp). Diesel is the main reason why average fuel efficiency of cars in Europe has decreased in spite of their growth of weight and power and, really, I do not understand the adversion by many US environmentalists to diesels (I do understand the one by corporations and politics: car imports). In Europe the emissions of NOx and particulate matter has decreased a lot in spite of dieselization of cars - thanks in great part to reduced use of coal.

Also, I do not understand why americans identify bigger=safer with cars. Just check the euroncap crash tests. Small cars may have excellent ratings - usually better than SUVs, that in addition have far less stability (that's why the benefit the more from ESP).

I lived in the US for 4 years, and a lot of things are better in the US than in Europe. But cars are not one of them, as of today. Roads are.

Actually saintchuck was correct, for a peiod of time now VW has not been selling their diesel cars in NA. This is soon to be rectified with, I believe, the 2009 Golf/Rabbit (bloody daft name Rabbit). As to this particular vehicle, bring it on, I want it now! As I understand it, new California regulations will include very low particulate matter requiements, so that argument against diesel will be eliminated. I, along with Manuel have always been baffled by the ridiculous aversion to diesel engines in NA, especially when vehicles such as the Dodge Caravan have been available in Europe with a diesel for many years, there would be no development cost at all. Do bear in mind however, that diesel in Europe is about 30% cheaper than gas, which, when factored in to the equation makes a significant impact on running costs.
All in all, we need to explore every avenue when it comes to reducing our impact on the planet, it is becoming clear that biodiesel is not a panacea. When we consider the infrastructure and societal requirements involved it seems that evolution, not revolution, is what is required. Again, it is incumbent on manufacturers to "test the water" with potential new products and it is incumbent upon us to voice our opinion. We are the ones who ultimately must make the changes in our lives and we must do it with all the informaton we can get.

Gentlemen,

I have been owning VW diesels in the US for 30 years now. My first one was a rabbit. Hate to tell you that I own a Jetta (2002) that gets over 50mpg on the highway. I never had a problem getting the vehicles and my next one comes in September. If you are a little smart and plan ahead, you will surely survive the wait. I have done it for 5 diesels in the past. It's a great car for a small family and not all of us women need to be 3 feet above the rest of the world like most American women do.

Happy driving.

Have you considered the impact millions of electric cars would have on the nations's electic grid? Can we find more rivers to dam? Do we create numerous nuclear power generating power plants? Do we create a system of tidal electrical generators on our East and West coasts and a system to transfer all the power to the interior parts of the contry? How many wind turbine and solar power plants would it take to supply the driving needs of public, commercial and private demand. Then how about the air transportation?

Simply stated, oil is the best energy source available as it does not compete with the other sources we depend upon. Bio deisel from algea may be a source, but it is a long way from suppling the fuel needs of this world. Ethenol competes with the food we eat. Electricity competes with our daily living. Solar, tidal, wind cannot ever cheaply supply the vast amounts of fuel energy required transportation.

I say, let the oil flow and pump it cleanly. We can figure out how to pump oil enviornmentally safe.. Open up those vast sources in Alaska, Texas and off shore...PUMP, PUMP, PUMP

VW had a 2001 turbo diesel golf that gets 55mpg i think a diesel hybrid get better.

I have a Chevy Impala Hybrid Diesel. Gets over 30mpg. I love it.

It seems that there is a reason we cannot get these high MPG vehicles in america and that the highest mileage we can hope for is 41. Isn't there something going on that we have had the technology for so long, the diesel originally being invented to run off veg oil not fossil fuels..If you watch who killed the electric car it is clear what is going on. It is not the technology that is the problem it is the barricades and the corporate alignment with our government in this country. It is crazy that in high school i had a honda civic that got as good gas mileage as anything i can get today in this country. It is so clear that with the oil companies making record profits this year that something is really wrong.
What do we do? how can we change this place when the people running the country are in such close alignment with those making the most profits off of the rest of us....?

Just a note about efficiency. Converting mechanical energy into electicity is only possible with a theoretical maximum of 50% efficiency. That is phisics, that is nature's law. Converting energy the other way around also possible with a maximum of a theoretical 50% efficiency. So, if you burn fuel (drive a turbine) and make electricity and then use that electricity to drive a car, that is a two times conversion (50% x 50%). That is a maximum theoretical 25% efficiency. That is the maximum without any loss on the way what we are very far away from., it is more like 10%. Once you get the electricity from wind, solar or nuclear sources, that's a different story, but until you got the electriciy from fossil fuels you didn't solve anything. If you can burn fossil fuel in a car cleanly, you make less harm to the envirement than when you drive an electric, because there is no conversion between mechanical and electrical energy. So. If the point is to save the planet, the elctric car won't do it alone!

"Just a note about efficiency. Converting mechanical energy into electicity is only possible with a theoretical maximum of 50% efficiency. That is phisics, that is nature's law."

Please cite your sources. I'm aware of limits to conversion efficiency, but it's the first time I hear about "50%".

Why does everybody insist on one size fits all solutions? Hydrogen is only for the oligarchy looking for another way to concentrate wealth by making you come to them for 'cheap' hydrogen rather than expensively making your own by using elecricity and water or natural gas. But batteries aren't quite there yet and stations certainly aren't equipped to charge up an EV as fast as one can fill up with gasoline or diesel. SERIAL diesel electric hybrids are the best stop gap for cars that need infinite range because diesels are the perfect engine for constant speed and diesel has even more energy density than gasoline and diesel is sold widely if not as widely as gasoline. The price might even come down if more people are buying rather than gasoline. And diesel fuel can be made from more than just crude oil.

Using electrically assisted bicycles would be even better, but as with motorcycles and scooters which are a compromise with bicycles and cars, the weather plays a role. On the other hand, bicycles and Segways can be taken on most public transportation. That would of course require more spending on public transportation when spending is actually going to go down.

The real problem stems from the Silent, Boomer and Post Boomer generations being the worst in U.S. history. After the GI generation builds the strongest middle class and country in the world, the following generations spend decades recklessly tearing down all the safeguards, ignoring all warnings, avoiding infrastructure maintenance, going along with every get rich quick scheme and doing everything possible to screw the middle and working classes.

HOW FUNNY BECAUSE TOYOTA ALSO HAS DIESEL TECHNOLOGY IT GOT FROM ITS STAKE IN SUBARU AND IZUSU. TOYOTA PRIUS 2009 WILL GIVE 80 MPG, THATS RIGHT, 80 MPG!!! WHILE THE VW DIESEL HYBRID WILL ONLY GIVE 69!!! SO WHAT IS ALL THE FUSS ABOUT? READ ALL THE FACTS BECAUSE YOU GET ALL EXCITED, SEE YOU GOT ALL EXCITED AND DIDINT KNOW PRIUS WAS INP[ROVING ITSELF, EVEN IF SOMEONE MAKES SOMETHING RELALY GOOD, TOYOTA IS YEARS AHEAD MAKING SOMETHING BETTER. NICE TRY VW, NOT EVEN NICE BECAUSE 69MPG TO SCREM SOMETHING AND ERVEN HONDA WILL MAKE SOMETHING FOR 2009 TO GIVE MORE THAN A WEAK 69 MPG!! HOW LAME VW REALLY IS

The best way to get them to start selling them here is to send them a note or email saying you want to buy one here, even if you aren't in the market right now. Call your local dealiers and ask for them. Let them know that there IS a market for them here.

I hope that VW comes through with cars like this - especially diesel based so that we can utilize local alternative fuels.

What about the Volkswagen 1-Liter diesel Car?

I think they should add one large rear tire and call it a motorcycle..... 300+ mpg!