Toyota Can't Make Enough Prius Hybrids to Meet Demand

If you'd really like to buy a Hybrid, consider the pro's & con's from non-Toyota website www.PriusChat.com.

If you can afford a combined car payment + gas of 600$/month before tax, the car will be a financial net zero in the first five years.

Then it gets interesting for the next 15 years by getting an EV pack and being able to possibly ditch gas altogether except for speeds higher than 55Mph.

I'm glad that many people are looking beyond the hype now.

Interesting that they have 80% share and Toyota seems perfectly willing to give up a huge chunk of a fast growing market segment to the first one that can fill the void. I can understand the need to diversify, but high efficiency gas is a push with this technology, clean diesel is an oxymoron (particulates), and fuel cells just moves the pollution from end user to producer. Plug-in seems the likely way, but in the meantime? Toyota seems reluctant to get paid well for fulfilling a demand that shows no sign of slacking (?) Honda is going to eat their lunch if they ain't careful; multiple designs in hybrid tech already...To the other manufacturers, come'n'get it. Toyota has bought a customer base for y'all...

We are very committed to hybrids but it's not our position that hybrid is the solution to the future. We're looking at high-efficiency gasoline, clean diesel, fuel cells and the plug-in hybrid.

Is this the same Toyota that didn't want to make a plug-in hybrid? If not for Cal Cars work on the Toyota Prius (proving to the world it was reasonably easy to do) and GM's threat of the Volt, they probably would not be working on a plug-in Prius. Be that as it may, this is still a good thing.

I wish they would have some "supply problems" with the tundra and the FJ cruiser instead...

I'm taking a guess, but I bet there is a particular component or components (plural) that is the limit, not the actual chassis.

Batteries?
electric motor?
electric motor controller (or components of)?

I'm always surprised by the Prius haters out there. They are clearly not perfect. They are expensive, and not nearly as efficient as they should be... However, they are one of the best cars available in the US, and they are sending a strong message to the auto industry that Americans would like a greener car.

If nobody bought the Prius I promise we wouldn't even be talking about future options such as plug-in hybrids or purely electric cars. At least we wouldn't be talking about anything that would be available to a mass market.

Give Toyota their due, they made a car that helps people both express their desire to have an energy efficient vehicle, and do something (no matter how small it may be) to improve emissions, and reduce gasoline consumption, AND they did this in a highly profitable way so other auto manufacturers will take note.

The reason Toyota hasn't made big changes is because it's selling at capacity and has no real competition. Why would they take the production line down to retool, etc?

They've already announced in Japan that they've got a plug in version in testing. It requires bigger and more expensive batteries but they will be ready with it if any of the majors ever ship anything that competes with the Prius.

Clean diesel an oxymoron? Whoever thinks that is indeed a moron. Do a little reading and Google before putting your shoe squarely in your mouth.

Hint: look up Tier 2, BIN 5 regulations, then post an apology.

Here's some more on why new diesels are BETTER than current hybrids:

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/strategies/articles/121734/article.html

Willy Bio you assessment is wrong.

Your Edmunds article compares Gas SUV's to Diesel SUV's to Hybrid SUV's.

All three types of SUV's are flawed by design, switching to Diesel or Hybrid is almost just a placebo.

Also, all current SUV Hybrids are simply an electric motor in-line with the gas motor - both always spinning. A very cheap way to do a Hybrid.
They also give Hybrids a bad name.

The Volt concept and Prius concept share a common quality - gas engine can be off, electric only.

So Willy Bio you are correct in saying a Diesel SUV has better MPG. Ever wonder why?
- costs less to manufacture diesel
- diesel has energy density than gas per equal volume
- gas burns more cleanly
- diesel causes more pollution

So basing a purchase decision for a Diesel SUV, does indeed make that buyer a moron. Buying an SUV when a regular car will fit 100% of the same needs, does a moron make.

If I ever want to go camping where only an SUV can take me - impossible to go there in my Prius, then I will rent an SUV. Just like I rent a truck when I move, instead of making 150 car trips.

So you're saying that I'm wrong, and T2B5 is wrong? Address T2B5, or SU, with all due respect of course.

Later this year when the new VW TDI Jettas come out, they can run the comparison between it and the Prius. Wanna bet which one comes out on top?

Oh, just a reminder, READ UP on T2B5.

Goodnight.

Willy, T2B5 is nice. Should have been done ten years ago. Should be standard issue on ALL trucks small & large.

Using T2B5 technology on an SUV doesn't make that SUV any cleaner.

Quote :
Environmental benefits of the new engine include a 13% reduction in CO2 versus gasoline engines, and at least a 90% reduction in particulates and NOx compared to diesel vehicles today.

That's still 10% more NOx than regular gas cars.

High octane fuel burns more cleanly, but costs more to manufacture in energy.

A hybrid like the Prius is a compromise situation, where you do need a car. Get the least polluting one, that stretches the evil gas the most.

As for VW TDI Jetta - the pollution created from that car is enormous compared to a Prius.
On the highway, the TDI is less than a Prius.

A Diesel TDI will be equal - because Diesel has more energy per volume.
A Diesel Prius would beat a TDI Diesel.

As soon as you put Diesel, on a TDI, even with T2B5, will hugely pollute more than a Prius.

How about performance? An automatic TDI versus a Prius - Prius will win hands down any 0-60Mph race.

If you compare a manual - regular gas - TDI, against the Prius, you're not comparing the same type of car. A manual TDI will beat the pants off ANY sedan with an automatic transmission - if driven properly of course.

The new WV TDI is already available in Europe, as well as the Prius, and while MPG is similar
(comparing Diesel to Reg Gas)
the pollution output is not similar.

WHY would you want a VW TDI?
Can a Prius answer all those same requierements?

Then how much to upgrade a VW TDI to electric?
How much for a Prius?

Umn, with that wacky logic, you're saying gas engines emit no NOX at all? Really? You sure about that?

T2B5 says that magic words "AT LEAST".

You're so wrong here, you border on lunacy.

Upcoming US T2B5 VW diesels have an NOX trap and particulate trap, resulting in emissions equal to gas, period. EU version does not meet T2B5, EU has not adopted T2B5, their regs are more lenient.

More wackiness from you: you talk about diesel hybrids, then not, then sort of. You make no sense. Of course a diesel hybrid is the holy grail, I have posted that a million times here. But right now IT DOES NOT EXIST.

Really? A 2006 auto TDI will lose to a Prius in 0-60? Really? You sure about that? (Hint: you're a loonie)

In September, the new US T2B5 Jettas will be available. You will then see the data on total life cycle emissions for it. You will then see that it soundly beats the Prius. You will see that TOYota is dragging its feet on creating a real PHEV version of the Prius.

Now for the coup de gras: biodiesel. Even as low as B5, emissions for even old TDIs drop drastically. B20, its astonishing. And that biodiesel can easily be made from waste vegetable oil and animal industry waste products. Even commercial soy based BD is made from the byproduct of feed creation and has >3x energy output over input.

So, to sum up, choosing a Prius over a 2004-2006 PD TDI is an environmentally, economically, and performance oriented POOR CHOICE. Choosing a 2009 Prius over a 2009 VW T2B5 TDI is just plain retarded.

Willy, the new Diesel TDI wasn't available in 2006 when I bought the Prius.

Even if it had been, what suits my needs & wants is a highway capable EV car.

Yes, I concur that the new Diesel TDI with T2B5 will pollute less than a regular car, while obtaining impressive MPG.

Making Diesel exhaust clean takes a lot of work. It's easier with more refined gas, then making regular gas exhaust cleaner with PZEV.

The holy grail is Diesel-generator-electric hybrid. The only way to fit that in a car is with Motor-In-Wheel, which is what Mitsubishi iMiev prototype is.

I fail to see why a 2009 PHEV Prius, that in a daily commute will use 1/10th the gas a VW TDI T2B5, is such a bad choice.

Perhaps looking at the type of driving will help, which is what I mentioned previously. If 95% of your driving is on the highway at highway 50+Mph speeds (not bumper-to-bumper slow traffic) then yes a TDI would be a better choice.
Meaning you are driving in excess of 1,000 miles per month.

If, like my case and over 75% of the NA population around cities, is a mix, and the highway is bumper-to-bumper rush hour traffic, the Prius is still a better choice for reducing pollution and gas usage.

Willy, also consider why clean Diesel that Honda, and now VW, have taken so long to come to market.

The logical conclusion is cost-to-consumer, the auto execs thinking that eco-conscious consumers will refuse to pay extra for clean Diesel.
Yet hybrids in all categories are selling, proving the execs are wrong.

I'm glad Willy you are eco-conscious and will be a future owner of a car with T2B5. Just don't bash the Prius where it performs best - at sub-50 Mph driving conditions. I live in a large city with congested highways, and most of my one-way driving is less than 10 miles, making an EV capable car my personal choice.

As far as pure speed is concerned, a VW TDI T2B5 with automatic transmission will be slower than a Prius. Not the case with a manual transmission, in a 0-60Mph race.

Here's proof - a 2006 Prius stock beating a 2001 Honda Civic LX.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAXLdw6Mg_I

Also consider that a Prius has more room and cargo space than a Jetta hatchback, better airbag system. For not that much more money.

I'm a little confused. You keep calling your 2006 Prius an EV. It is not an EV. It is an HEV. Unless you are telling me you upgraded to an aftermarket PHEV kit?

OK, I'll concede that if your daily commute takes you 10 miles in one direction, in city traffic, the Prius is a better choice than either the 06 or 09 TDI. Unless, of course, those TDI's are running on Biodiesel from waste.

But, of course, my biggest question is: why own a car at all? Bike, maybe. But what about an electric scooter? I only wish I had your situation. I'd have one of the cheap Chinese electric scooters and be done with it all. You are really not a good example of the typical Prius owner, or US driver at all.

Something you really have to wrap your head around, and that is life-cycle analysis. A Prius fails mainly due to its significantly reduced lifespan over the TDI. Light duty diesels are rated at 30-40% longer lives. Any fuel savings and C02 reductions are wiped away and then some when you have to build a whole new Prius and the TDI is still going strong. When the diesel Chevy Volt comes out, I'll be first in line.

0-60 for both are rated between 10-11 seconds. Your statement that the Prius soundly beats the auto 06 TDI, has been soundly proven as false. 08-09 Sportwagen will soundly beat the 08-09 Prius, let alone your model.

To sum this all up again, until TOYota releases a real PHEV version of the Prius, it is simply a Red Herring, lulling the masses into thinking they are being green. Small efficient diesels are fast going to eat their lunch. Latest sales figures from EU show this perfectly: http://www.greencarcongress.com/2008/02/european-automo.html#more

Now that they are as clean as gas, and the price difference from diesel to gas is more than made up for with efficiency, the US will fast follow suit.

Sorry man, you got snookered with that E10 only gas burner.