GM's Chevy Volt Price Goes Up; Stereo, Wipers to Blame

Folks, remember that this car is a Version 1.0, compared to the Prius Version 3 coming out.

The price of the Prius is going down.

Prices of the EV-packs are going down.

The 2010 date? For just 1,000 cars, version 1.0, to work out the real life bugs.

Don't expect to be able to buy until 2012.

So much hype over a vaporware product.

The Mitsubishi iMiev will be available, and a better buy, than the Volt will be. Meanwhile, keep your old car an extra five years, properly tuned.
Or get a Prius.

Yeah, it's sad that GM is behind, but the Volt - even if vaporware for now - is doing great work popularizing series plug-in hybrids.

Even if it just ends up influencing other automakers, that'll be a net benefit.

I really don't get it. GM's all-electric EV1 had electric wipers, an electric stereo, an electric heat pump (with heat/ac), etc. It's not like GM is in completely uncharted territory here. The Gen 2 Panasonic lead-acid batteries used in the EV1 could keep the car (including the wipers) going for 75 to 150 miles. GM is only trying to keep the Volt batteries charged for 40 miles -- using far superior lithium batteries. How difficult could it be to reconfigure the EV1's electric system for use in the Volt? Can someone who knows more than I do about automotive engineering tell me if this is truly a valid issue? It seems like GM is just dragging its feet.

It's probably a question of cost. They could just make the battery pack bigger, but they'd miss their price-point even more..

It's just like going to the Moon.
All the people that worked on the Saturn 5 rockets are ... well the tech is over 30 years old.

Didn't they crush all the EV1s? Oh ... in their move towards the 'paperless office' all the info got lost in cyberspace.

Someone should have claimed an EV1 as stolen on their insurance and made replicas.

vsk

One of the problems is that we've had 100+ years in which gasoline cars were dominant, and 100+ years to perfect them, and now people are demanding electric cars that meet those same standards. I'm not saying that that's good or that it's bad, I'm just saying that's a problem facing companies like this.

I'm an engineer in the auto industry - we are supposed to be reading between the lines here, and the wiper and stereo thing is a lame excuse for some other issues. These issues could be anything from costs of certain components, to the undecided assembly location. It isn't necessarily bad news in fact, it just means that the program is now big enough and visible enough that GM's upper management is hedging their bets on how successfull the program will be, and who will get eventual credit for it if all goes well.

Wow. They haven't even shipped the darned thing and the're jacking up the price already.

That is a realy fantastic car

Price? I'm not sure I care as long as they make it. It will get cheaper in time.

Wipers, stereo? The engineering department at GM is gritting their teeth at the stupidity of this I'm sure. Ever heard of a class D amplifier? Their are available as after market car amplifiers, and I imagine at least some head units use them (they are so efficient they require little if no heat sinkinks, and heat sinks aren't cheap)

I'm losing interest in the Volt. GM needs to quickly push through a new model. Keep the 40 mile range and the plug-in hybrid concept. Drop the radio and all the luxury features. Steal the SMART body design and drop the price to just under $20,000. That's a car that I'd buy!

Let's see - the drivetrain probably uses about 100 kW, the stereo uses about 500 W and the wipers about 100W. Yes, I can see where the performance would suffer, loosing 1/1000 of the power to the wiper blades.
"Warning: do not crank 'Santana' solos on rainy uphills"

I know this has been mentioned before, but the Volt looks as heavy as a muscle car. Maybe they should start there.

GM knows if the Volt doesn't work well the first time it will hurt their image even more and it will give a black eye to all EV's. Does anyone remember diesels in the 80's. It took them 20 years to recover.

I would buy a Volt w/o air conditioning

I'm losing interest in the Volt. GM needs to quickly push through a new model. Keep the 40 mile range and the plug-in hybrid concept. Drop the radio and all the luxury features. Steal the SMART body design and drop the price to just under $20,000. That's a car that I'd buy!

Same here. I live in the city, so a long, low-slung car won't work for me. Of course, neither would a plug-in hybrid, so I guess it's a moot point.

GM is probably banking on the next presidency creating huge tax credits for hybrid vehicles that will bring the price of the Volt down to acceptable levels.

But when you compare a $35,000 Volt to a $25,000 Prius, it's pretty much a no-brainer.

So many people still want to attack GM for the EV-1. Look forward people and stock living with negative energy.

The Volt is a great concept and if GM can make it work then I expect we'll have dozens of EVs coming out from all over. Will everyone be thanking GM for forcing the market to EVs fifty years from now? I doubt it. Get off the complain boat people and get on board the future.

The drain of accessories on an electric car are not insignificant. During an interview Kristin Scott Thomas said of her G-Wiz that on rainy nights you have to decide between headlights and wipers. The exponentially increasing amount of power drawn by convenience items in cars, even since the days of the EV-1, has prompted the auto industry to consider moving from the now standard 12V system to a 48V system just to keep up with the load.

Consumers will have high expectations of the Volt. They will expect it to operate just like their other cars, but on a rainy night, with the headlights, wipers, electric heat or a/c, stereo, DVD player, and sat-nav on and cell phone chargers, ipods, laptops, etc. plugged in, it may have difficulty maintaining the load with its ICE range extender, much less going 40 miles on the battery.

If the Volt fails to meet buyers' expectations it could be a disaster. GM can't afford that. It is easier to apologize for a high price for something like this now than for browning-out or slowing to a crawl on the freeway later.

gl - moving to a 48V system won't fix the load issue. You get the same amount of watts from a battery whether its 12V or 48V. A higher voltage will allow them to use smaller wires, which will save a few pounds, but only a few. Higher voltages are really only advantagous over *long* wire runs which isn't an issue on a 10-foot long car. Safety becomes a bigger issue at higher voltages, since shock and arcing become easier. For all these reasons I doubt the accessory circuits on cars and trucks will ever change from 12V.

The primary battery for the drivetrain is a different matter, where large wattages demand higher voltages to cut down on heating losses. Those batteries are usually several hundred volts.

Keep in mind that GM didn't sell any of the EV1 cars, they were all leased, and GM lost/spent a bundle on the program. Had they been manufactured for sale, they likely would have cost as much as a Tesla roadster. The EV1, like the 1960s Chrysler Turbine car, was a test program, not a retail product.

The Volt (which, personally, I despise) is intended to be a retail product, thus the price reflects the actual cost of manufacturing.

I don't understand why GM can't explain it in those terms, maybe they should hire me to do their PR, and their new product development- I'm looking for a job...

Doug,

"moving to a 48V system won't fix the load issue. You get the same amount of watts from a battery whether its 12V or 48V..."

First, the battery isn't the limiting factor, the circuit capacity is. In this case "load"=current, which is what circuits are limited by with breakers, fuses, etc. You'll get 4 times as many watts from a 48V battery than from a 12V battery at a given current load. For example, a 15A circuit at 12V can only handle 180W, which can be used up fairly quickly. A 48V circuit at 15A can deliver 720W. In all likelihood, the 48V system idea will become moot with the proliferation of HEV, PHEV, or EREV systems, which as you mention are hundreds of volts.

Second, you seem to have completely missed the point, which was nothing to do with voltage, but that the load of additional comfort, convenience and entertainment items on cars has increased to the point that the industry was considering an entirely new standard, and thus is not insignicant with respect to maintaining the range of an electric vehicle.

cave man likes grog!

Chevy's not dragging their feet. Have you looked at their financial losses lately? They need this car out YESTERDAY. I think they will be a step beyond prius's if they get this architecture smoothed out sufficiently. Remember they are talking NO gas for the majority of commuters. We're talking some mighty clean air in Phoenix Arizona when enough of this vehicle gets on the road.

Where is the hatch? Why not a wagon?

Id love to use our GM employee discount on this car, but its a sedan - and a low visibility sedan to boot.

I dont understand why they are pushing this concept, when what the need in a car like this is something much more practical and universal.

Also, why are they using those expensive and toxic Li batteries that are so poor in cold/hot temperatures? GM is in Michigan and ought to know better.

There is a battery MUCH better proven in use today:
http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml

I thought true treehuggers didnt care about price, but rather, whatever it takes to have less emissions?

"I thought true treehuggers didnt care about price, but rather, whatever it takes to have less emissions?"

Well, that's not true, to really make a difference, you need something that lots of people can use, so price matters.

Even increases in price keep them in the news, which is free advertising!

I am a little sad that it isn't a hatchback, and I imagine they won't try to make one for aerodynamics reason (given the overwhelming focus on raw mpg I think they'll sacrafice some practicality)

I'm not sure what to think of this comment:

"Also, why are they using those expensive and toxic Li batteries that are so poor in cold/hot temperatures? GM is in Michigan and ought to know better.

There is a battery MUCH better proven in use today:
http://www.electricwheelsinc.com/batteries.shtml"

I followed the link to a website pushing lithium batteries...

Sadly to the people dismissing the Volt and waiting for a true electric, such a beast will never be drivable up here in Canada, without the waste-heat from the engine to heat the cabin no one will be able to drive it in the winter.

My assumption is that the reduced range problem in the Volt, caused by the cold will be offset by the need to have the engine running to heat the cabin.

This is a disappointing development. Presumably the rework of the stereo system and the windshield wipers is to save energy/fuel and extend the range of the vehicle. Five-thousand dollars seems like a lot of money for a mild gain. I think it would have sold much better at the $30,000 price point.

Prius wins hands down in this

Prius $25000 and Volt $35000. In 10000 dollars that I save by not buying Volt, I can drive the prius by filling the gas for 100 thousand miles. Considering prius mileage to be 40 mpg and gas @ 4 dollars.

If next gen 2009 prius gets much higher mpg as per the rumors and if govt does not give crazy subsidies GM is looking for then .......

Just start mass producing them and people will buy them. The cost will drop if you sale a million of them.

"gl - moving to a 48V system won't fix the load issue. You get the same amount of watts from a battery whether its 12V or 48V. "

Ohms law says something a bit different:

P = E x I

So:

A 12 volt battery @ 10 amps = 120 watts
A 48 volt battery @ 10 amps = 480 watts

"gl - moving to a 48V system won't fix the load issue. You get the same amount of watts from a battery whether its 12V or 48V. "

Ohms law says something a bit different:

P = E x I

So:

A 12 volt battery @ 10 amps = 120 watts
A 48 volt battery @ 10 amps = 480 watts

The bottom line is that none of these cars are affordable to someone like myself. I can't even afford to buy a used Prius, because they still sell at over $20,000. It seems like there is a greater force preventing affordable hybrids from being sold in the US. I'm forced to look at the total payments: $350/mo. car payment + $100/mo. fuel vs. $200/mo. car paymnet + $150/mo. fuel with my used Hyundai. I can't afford to pay an extra $100 per month to try to save the planet.

Yea that is true regarding version 1.0.

Most of your first generation vehicles and, well everything else, have bugs and lots of them. It certainly takes a while to iron all of them out. Iphones, Xboxs, Automobiles all have bugs. Hopefully the Volt will have as few as possible.

I wonder if they are planning a pure electric option for the Volt -- just replacing the gasoline engine with a larger battery or a secondary battery. If it got 100 miles on a charge that would be good.

I would spend a few thousand more on a pure electric Volt if I didn't have to worry about the same old stuff: oil changes, radiator fluid, tune ups, etc. etc. For me the gas engine seems like dead weight because I drive about 50 miles in a day at most and I would always recharge at night instead of relying on gas.

Personally i dont think that the volt will sell very well if released. Remember those expensive to replace ECU's on our gasoline engines today?. Many go bad and cost an upward of $1000 or more. There is a lot of electronics that need to be precisely tuned in this car. Its extremely risky cause one 8 cent resistor shorting out could lead to you totaling your car because you spilled coffee or drove through a deep puddle. Many people also dont understand that Electronic components dont last forever. When electricity is applied to a circuit parts heat up and over time break down. Repair costs will be astronomical. Your auto repairs will have to be done by people with a PhD in electrical engineering. I believe the car is being put to far ahead of its time. Four years is not enough time to work out all of the critical issues. They should have just made a few hydrogen prototypes and worked on a way to keep it cheap. Combustion engines are alot simpler

I hope that chevy also makes a "consumer" version of this car. A "bare-bones" version with a simple low-amp radio, and minimal power accessories. If it has to be one of the most expensive boys on the block it will only be moderately successful. The strongest competitor at this time offers a "simple" version at about $20K and a "fully loaded" version at about $30K.

I am anxiously awaiting it...
Does anybody know how I can place an advance order for the Volt?

That's kinda' a lame excuse to jack up the price of every single car... $5,000 in development maybe but for every car? Please. I agree with a previous comment - the car looks like a heavy muscle car. Why not start there to reduce power drain?

I think GM is asking about $10k too much for this car. In this economy there is no intelligent person that will go into debt $35k for an electric car unless they can get more distance out of the battery. Even in a good economy, I would never buy a $35k car. My wife and I together make about $160k a year so I'm not really sure who their marketing department is trying to sell this car to. I travel 100 miles in one day and wouldn't consider this car at this price unless it can get about double the distance on a charge. It disgusts me that the management of GM has made so many bad strategic decisions in the past that has driven the company into the ground. I know they have to make a profit but this is ridiculous. They need to stop relying on the patriotism of the American people to buy their cars and give us better quality at a better price. I'm sure that they have finished this car and are now intentionally engineering bad quality car parts for the volt that will have to be periodically replaced. I know GM can make a quality car if they want to but the car part industry is so big for them that they won't give us quality. Give us a break GM if you want us to buy your car and quit offering us crap.

There is alot of talk here about the batteries. Well, current batteries create what we call a "memory" based upon when the batteries are recharged, ie at high drain or low drain. What happnes is, the cells such as in Ni-Cad or Nickel Cadmium batteries over time (if you do not let them drain low, before placing a charge to recharge) will create crystalline structures within the cells and impede current flow, and after a period of time will not last very long after each successive charge. The only way to reverse this is to repeatedly drain the batteries and to recharge them many times. The newer batteries GM is putting out from what I can perceive, is a facet where they are putting alot of innovation into the lasting of the battery backs. I was real excited about the news awhile back on the anticipated arrival of the Volt. But, I am very very disappointed in GM, due to the fact they do not for some reason know how to effectiviely run a business. Chevy needs to realize that they should take a huge loss on the first years production. They are running scared. To properly get customers the car needs to be "out there", and they cfould have the best advertising in the World and it would not mean one iota, and them producing a thousand. I was SO anxious to get on the list, I work in Aviation and am paid very well, however with the price keep going up.... Hugh?

Ronald K, aka Coffeelover,,,,,

I just feel like GM does not get it . It would be nice if they could focus on affordable transportation for people instead of the usual OVER PRICED LUXURY cars. They just don't seem to understand that the time of spending more than you have has come to an end for most average folks.
It sounds like when all is said and done that the Volt is gonna cost around $35 to $40 grand ! So if you are trying to save cash are you gonna lay down your hard earned money for a luxury car that might work okay, or are you more apt to pay for a green car that has allready passed it's test - Prius anybody ?
How about more focus on something that gets me to and from work at an affordable price !

So those people who keep preaching the prius the 2 cars are totally different packages. The prius uses a batterie pack yes but there is no need to charge the system because it is charged by the gas motor.

The volt when plugged in wont use a drop of fule for the first 40 miles. Where as the prius will have used aprox a gallon of gas.

That is the difference between the 2 cars.

For me My daily commute is only about 10miles so the only tank of gas I would buy is If I was acctually driving for longer then 40 miles.

I am sorry but I have sevral freinds back home that love their prius but would trade it in in a heart beat to be free of a gas bill every month.

todays Hybrids and the Volt are like comaring apples to oranges.

I would like to know if the Vote is towable behind my motorhome on all four wheels....

Thank you

Well I'm a Soldier & I'm getting tired of going over seas to fight for oil. Somebody better come up with a car that runs on less gas or better yet none. I'd like to survive to have kids someday.

There goes the American auto makers- and the US wonders why its in such a mess- because I purchased a foreign car?? I think not. Its because of the American auto makers' greed. In NO WAY did the cost of this car go up $5K because of the stereo and wipers!! Do they think we are idiots?!! well, maybe some are but I won't be purchasing one of these, thats for sure.

Hey; where will I put my bike rack, kayak, and camping gear on this thing. It looks great on paper but the Volt isn't designed for the rest of us. In the meantime, the Government is using our money to bail these clowns out of their own bad marketing. What a bummer. (or Hummer, you pick.)

I can not believe this is $40,000.00 dollars. I mean I don't think I can afford that and would love to go green. It is too expensive to go green.

The Tesla Model S is totaly awesome, i just looked at a e-mail they sent me $49,900 with the $7,500 tax credit.

The standard Model S does 0-60 mph in under six seconds and will have an electronically limited top speed of 130 mph, with sport versions expected to achieve 0-60 mph acceleration well below five seconds. A single-speed gearbox delivers effortless acceleration and responsive handling. A 17-inch touchscreen with in-car 3G connectivity allows passengers to listen to Pandora Radio or consult Google Maps, or check their state of charge remotely from their iPhone or laptop. With three battery pack choices will offer a range of 160, 230 or 300 miles per charge, and a fast charger that only charges in 45 minutes!

Tesla is getting it done!

I'm not just looking at the fact that the volt can run on electricity, but all the things that comes with it. An electric transmission so the car is always "in gear", no clutch to worry about! And it still gets good mpg. Also it doesn't take away perfomance to get that mpg. 160 hoursepower, 0-60 in 8-10 sec., over 3000 lbs, and a 4 person sedan. It may not beet my metro's original price of around 8,000 but I will feel alot safer in a car that meets todays safty ratings. Another plus for me is an electric heater for the cold winters, I won't need to wait for the car to warm up! The Volt is a grand idea.

What do you folks think of the all-electric vehicles soon to be mass-produced by Detroit Electric?

www.detroit-electric.com

I'm pretty interested in them. How do you think they compare to the Volt?

I converted a Chevy S10 to electric for about $13,000. www.evalbulm.com/1752. Electric costs around $30 a month, vs gas was $300 a month for the same useage/distance. I go up to 78 mph, 40 to 60 miles, depending on speed. Why is it so hard to get me a voly when they had the EV1 all those years ago? Who did kill the electric car? Who's gonna bring it back?

I was interested in the Volt, though I would like to see a pure electric for a day to day vehicle. If they could build something that got 100 miles per charge it would work for us, as long as we have our View for the bad weather and long trips.

But lets be real, the new, already available Prius gets 50 miles per gallon, you can get one for $22,000 and it is backed up by Toyota's reputation.

Who in there right mind will go out and pay $35,000 for a Volt?

Now that gas has hit $3.00 a gallon again, my wife and I are thinking seriously about buying one this summer to replace our Honda Accord.

Mike