I completely agree with you.

Things like this really destroy the legitimacy of the entire movement b/c people write environmentalists in general off as loonies that destroy laboratories, threaten people and do things like, well, these people seem to want to do.

It doesn't accomplish anything except turn mainstream folks away. Someone needs to explain this to them. They're really not helping their cause, and more importantly, they are giving legitimate folks and organizations a bad name.

Perhaps it's the impetuousness of my youth speaking but i honestly see what Paul Watson's doing as an acceptable LAST RESORT in the event negotiations fail.

And to say it achieves nothing isn't entirely true. It disrupts the whaling process doesn't it? I'll agree that in the long run it's probably detrimental to the entire process but lets look at it in another light;

If you saw someone beating a dog who refused to respond to your verbal protests, wouldn't you get physically involved? I would.

Having said that i believe the most effective way to fix this problem is to appeal to the Japanese people. To quote the old WWF message, "When the buying stops, the killing can too". Till then, ram away.

i disagree sometimes you have to stand up for what you believe in. When people ignore you standing up you have to do something more drastic.

I think Greenpeace hurt the movement a lot more when they sent out a press release still containing the placeholder text, "[FILL IN ALARMIST AND ARMAGEDDONIST FACTOID HERE]".

As Captain Paul Watson of Sea Shepherd (and one of Greenpeace's earliest members/founders) put it, Greenpeace are now like the "Avon Ladies of the environmental movement." Theirs was such an inept effort last year that they didn't even find the Japanese whaling fleet until Sea Shepherd radioed them the coordinates.

While Greenpeace's rainbow-colored vessels engage in an ineffectual protest that has no audience other than the Japanese whalers (who don't need to be told that their activities are illegal) Sea Shepherd's effort is one of enforcement, an activity NGOs are empowered to engage in under international laws pertaining to the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary. Watch their videos and you'll get a healthy dose of "This is not a protest action. This is a law enforcement action.

Face it. If you scuttle and damage whaling vessels on a sufficiently regular basis the business of whaling becomes so risky that it becomes prohibitively expensive to insure. Sea Shepherd by no means intends to threaten the safety of humans, but they do intend to put the whalers out of business.

Sea Shepherd is by its own description a pirate organization that uses unregistered vessels to carry out its work. In this sense, when they intentionally sink or damage a whaling ship you will hear about it from them first. All of the reports I have seen of any violence or lives being jeopardized, however, have come from the Japanese and Greenpeace, so I would encourage people to read the other side of the story, watch the videos, and decide for themselves. (The Japanese are also in the habit of confusing Greenpeace for Sea Shepherd, or blaming their own unrelated fires and electrical problems on Sea Shepherd activities, so you really need to scrutinize this stuff.)

As for Sea Shepherd's activities being radical fringe or outside the law, their impressively mainstream list of supporters and the lack of any legal convictions speaks otherwise.

The Sea Shepherd Wikipedia page has a good summary of what the organization is about. (as well as some criticism) The 7 official video files listed from last year are particularly awesome!

I was going to write a fairly long and detailed article about the use of violence in conflicts (my university degrees being intl. diplomacy, politics), but I decided that what was said by the last three posters covers much of the primary essence of what I was going to try to impart.

Aaron, while I do not share your attitude about Greenpeace, I do basically second much of the rest of what you said. Thank you for taking the time to write and having saved me the trouble.

Who cares if this turns the mainstream folks away, The mainstream folks opinions does nothing to stop the whaling. The mainstream is just that an opinion, mainstream never gets anything done.

I completely disagree. Direct action in this case is absolutely necessary. All other avenues have been exhausted - the Australian Govt sits on its hands ("oh we don't know where they are, the ocean's so big, you know" ) while the whalers flagrantly cruise protected waters for their next kill - and yes, that is exactly where they have just been sighted.

I wonder how much money they actually make out of killing whales, and whether that would compare to the tourist and investment $$$ that Japan is losing because of the bad press killing these creatures gives them.

Talk minus action equals nothing. (DOA)

I do not think that trying to talk to people who do not care to listen is going to accomplish anything. Might as well go yell at a brick wall.. Now take a hammer to that wall and you will get some attention.

I respect Greenpeace and what they are trying to accomplish, they have the same goal.. But, they need to be respectful that other people have a different view of what MUST happen to get that same job done.

I am unsure that passive resistance can accomplish anything anymore, but feel free to try,

Watson has his quirks, but he has been out there for decades and not a single person has been killed or seriously injured by his efforts. Calling him a terrorist is ridiculous.

What I don't like about Watson is that his organization seems to begin and end in himself. He is not building a long-lasting or growing enterprise, despite all his funding, and the world's oceans need 100 more like him.

If you don't believe me, read this: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/15/world/europe/15fish.html

Still, he's what we've got. What the whales have got, really. Because the rest of us, Greenpeace included, aren't doing much for them.

I would like to respond to some of what has been said here, and the issue in general terms.

comments under quotes first.

what i believe the most effective way to fix this problem is to appeal to the Japanese people. To quote the old WWF message, "When the buying stops, the killing can too". Till then, ram away.>>>

Yes exactly, the majority of Japanese either ARE or WOULD be positive to stopping whaling in my opinion, certainly the number of Japanese you go on whale watching vs number who actually eat whale meat is very different. I for one have NEVER seen it for sale,in 7 years living in Japan over about 15 YEAR period and most Japanese I know haven't either.

THis stuff is NOT on the local supermarket shelf. I have heard that "someone" ( Guess what industry?) is lobbying for it to be on the school system canteen, THAT would be bad news.

In my experience, almost NO effort has ever been made to clearly EXPLAIN the situation or motives for stopping whaling, OR to convince the Japanese public. Most seem to think that its a "save the cuddly creatures" mentality behind efforts to stop whaling.

Moreover, in many years dealing with Japanese people, as a "shame" based culture, they genuinely respond to embarassment of foriegners negative opinions IF it is "at home" in Japan.

If you could get Sean Connory to give them a nice public kick in ass, things might be different. ( Ok, thats a silly example, but probably true...)

The Japanese are supremely indifferent, NIMBY, and apolitical nornally, and elites are definetely "in control", but I have seen the Japanese Governmnets do astounding backflips when the public sentiment runs high enough.

By the way, ramming them would have a NEGATIVE affect on Japanese public opinion, not posiitive, as now you would be "attacking Japanese eople" and acting irrationally, in their view.

ce it. If you scuttle and damage whaling vessels on a sufficiently regular basis the business of whaling becomes so risky that it becomes prohibitively expensive to insure. Sea Shepherd by no means intends to threaten the safety of humans, but they do intend to put the whalers out of business.>>>

Yeh, good luck with that, not very practical or likely.

For the record, the whaling business, though "small" is highly profitable, AND a flag waving nationalist "cause" backed by ( as far as I can tell..) Extreme Ultra nationalist right wing groups( picture the ones that came and attacked a Japanese journalist with a sword a few years back, cause they didn't like the opinion they read ) in Japan. IN that context, the more you "upset" these semi or outright criminal thugs and known foriegner haters, the MORE they will support the business, not less.These people are fringe groups in Japan, not the manistream, though they ARE dangerous, and sick.

The MAIN market for whale meat as far as I can tell is probably mafia types and very wealthy ones, at that.

As far as I know, Whale meat sells for about $100 a kilo, so do the math, thats VERY profitable for them. As an aside, you should be aware that MANY "profitable" ( read would be out of business in a week if they had to compete on world market, but still making money thanks to government protectionist policy/ help ) industries of ALL scale are VERY vocal and effective ( read corrupt..?) in manitaining their (monoplolistic ) businesses protection against ALL comers including foriegn trade partners, and the wto.

As for Sea Shepherd's activities being radical fringe or outside the law, their impressively mainstream list of supporters and the lack of any legal convictions speaks otherwise.>>>

The same reason of course why the Japanese whalers also act with impunity, jurisdiction issues on the "high seas", not to mention diplomacy issues, they ( protesters) should redirect their efforts to embarrasing the Japanese people at home.

Who cares if this turns the mainstream folks away, The mainstream folks opinions does nothing to stop the whaling. The mainstream is just that an opinion, mainstream never gets anything done.>>>>

Thats so concieted as to be beyond comprehension, in my opinion, who are you?Che GUavara?

The fact is that what mainstream folk think DOES matter,( always has ) more specifically what JAPANESE mainstream folk think, as said is the ONLY thing that can change these actions.

IF greenpeace ect are serious they AND the very profitable whale watching industry might consider this;

They could ( be helped financially to have some guts?), ( sponser ?) individual watcher companies to refuse service to Japanese nationals IF they wont sign a pettition to Japanese government And hand out clear explanations of the issues and implications,ALSO spelling out in clear way how shameful and negative it is for the image of Japanese people. MIliions of Japanese go on such tours yearly, why not wave some petitions under their faces AND embarass them "in a good way" on the spot? It wouldn't need to be an insult, and it would bring home to them that their governments policy "makes them look bad".

For those that don't know, Japanese people are( as a generalisation) highly self conscious about themselves "in comparison to westerners" in particular, it is virtually a national obsession in many forms.

Has such a campaign,(which considers the national political and mindset realities of Japan, let alone the simple fact that ALL national governments are ( in theory )accountable to THEIR citizens not the international citizenry, mores the pity...) ever been done? I wouldn't know, but I have never heard of it.

wonder how much money they actually make out of killing whales, and whether that would compare to the tourist and investment $$$ that Japan is losing because of the bad press killing these creatures gives them>>>

Problem with this is that Japan being a singularly insulated society, it is shocking just HOW indifferent they have been to ( good )ideas such as promoting tourism for foreigners in Japan.

Though this may seem strange in the context of massive Japanese overseas tourism, it is an aspect of the "bubble" world most Japanese live in. 90 % of tourism in Japan is for Japanese, not foreigners.

Similarly, I think it should be EMBARRASINGLY and forcefully "put to" the Japanese public that the world's oceans don't belong to them, to exploit at will, AND that THIS is one reason why "we" are angry about it.

Also, in general terms, the reality is that Japan, as one of top economies in the world has massive foreign investment at institutional level ect, so, as appealing as the idea is, this is not practical in any meaningful way.

In short, I would strongly urge anyone interested in "making" a meaningful change in Japanese politics to consider engaging the Japanese public in a serious and thoughtful way.

Even though their political impulses are ( usually ) dull, IF they get involved, they can change the way things are in Japan. If they don't, you can forget it, because of all the interest group lobby/corruption/ pride/ money involved.

You might also consider asking the LOCAL foreigner population ( more than 1 million of various nationalities) for help, as these are the "public face" of "the world" in Japan, not whats on CNN, or what most people in the pub in London think.

For context, I have lived in Japan 3 times, for a total of 7 years, also studied the Language. history and culture, society for a further 7 years, and am married to a Japanese national, so please don't bother saying "what would you know ect...", I may not be back to check anyway, please just assume I may just know something more about Japan than 99% of you and please THINK about what I said, and pass it on to someone who can act on it if you are able.

Hopefully it may be of some use.

Good luck

I would like to respond to some of what has been said here, and the issue in general terms.

comments under quotes first.

what i believe the most effective way to fix this problem is to appeal to the Japanese people. To quote the old WWF message, "When the buying stops, the killing can too". Till then, ram away.>>>

Yes exactly, the majority of Japanese either ARE or WOULD be positive to stopping whaling in my opinion, certainly the number of Japanese you go on whale watching vs number who actually eat whale meat is very different. I for one have NEVER seen it for sale,in 7 years living in Japan over about 15 YEAR period and most Japanese I know haven't either.

THis stuff is NOT on the local supermarket shelf. I have heard that "someone" ( Guess what industry?) is lobbying for it to be on the school system canteen, THAT would be bad news.

In my experience, almost NO effort has ever been made to clearly EXPLAIN the situation or motives for stopping whaling, OR to convince the Japanese public. Most seem to think that its a "save the cuddly creatures" mentality behind efforts to stop whaling.

Moreover, in many years dealing with Japanese people, as a "shame" based culture, they genuinely respond to embarassment of foriegners negative opinions IF it is "at home" in Japan.

If you could get Sean Connory to give them a nice public kick in ass, things might be different. ( Ok, thats a silly example, but probably true...)

The Japanese are supremely indifferent, NIMBY, and apolitical nornally, and elites are definetely "in control", but I have seen the Japanese Governmnets do astounding backflips when the public sentiment runs high enough.

By the way, ramming them would have a NEGATIVE affect on Japanese public opinion, not posiitive, as now you would be "attacking Japanese eople" and acting irrationally, in their view.

ce it. If you scuttle and damage whaling vessels on a sufficiently regular basis the business of whaling becomes so risky that it becomes prohibitively expensive to insure. Sea Shepherd by no means intends to threaten the safety of humans, but they do intend to put the whalers out of business.>>>

Yeh, good luck with that, not very practical or likely.

For the record, the whaling business, though "small" is highly profitable, AND a flag waving nationalist "cause" backed by ( as far as I can tell..) Extreme Ultra nationalist right wing groups( picture the ones that came and attacked a Japanese journalist with a sword a few years back, cause they didn't like the opinion they read ) in Japan. IN that context, the more you "upset" these semi or outright criminal thugs and known foriegner haters, the MORE they will support the business, not less.These people are fringe groups in Japan, not the manistream, though they ARE dangerous, and sick.

The MAIN market for whale meat as far as I can tell is probably mafia types and very wealthy ones, at that.

As far as I know, Whale meat sells for about $100 a kilo, so do the math, thats VERY profitable for them. As an aside, you should be aware that MANY "profitable" ( read would be out of business in a week if they had to compete on world market, but still making money thanks to government protectionist policy/ help ) industries of ALL scale are VERY vocal and effective ( read corrupt..?) in manitaining their (monoplolistic ) businesses protection against ALL comers including foriegn trade partners, and the wto.

As for Sea Shepherd's activities being radical fringe or outside the law, their impressively mainstream list of supporters and the lack of any legal convictions speaks otherwise.>>>

The same reason of course why the Japanese whalers also act with impunity, jurisdiction issues on the "high seas", not to mention diplomacy issues, they ( protesters) should redirect their efforts to embarrasing the Japanese people at home.

Who cares if this turns the mainstream folks away, The mainstream folks opinions does nothing to stop the whaling. The mainstream is just that an opinion, mainstream never gets anything done.>>>>

Thats so concieted as to be beyond comprehension, in my opinion, who are you?Che GUavara?

The fact is that what mainstream folk think DOES matter,( always has ) more specifically what JAPANESE mainstream folk think, as said is the ONLY thing that can change these actions.

IF greenpeace ect are serious they AND the very profitable whale watching industry might consider this;

They could ( be helped financially to have some guts?), ( sponser ?) individual watcher companies to refuse service to Japanese nationals IF they wont sign a pettition to Japanese government And hand out clear explanations of the issues and implications,ALSO spelling out in clear way how shameful and negative it is for the image of Japanese people. MIliions of Japanese go on such tours yearly, why not wave some petitions under their faces AND embarass them "in a good way" on the spot? It wouldn't need to be an insult, and it would bring home to them that their governments policy "makes them look bad".

For those that don't know, Japanese people are( as a generalisation) highly self conscious about themselves "in comparison to westerners" in particular, it is virtually a national obsession in many forms.

Has such a campaign,(which considers the national political and mindset realities of Japan, let alone the simple fact that ALL national governments are ( in theory )accountable to THEIR citizens not the international citizenry, mores the pity...) ever been done? I wouldn't know, but I have never heard of it.

wonder how much money they actually make out of killing whales, and whether that would compare to the tourist and investment $$$ that Japan is losing because of the bad press killing these creatures gives them>>>

Problem with this is that Japan being a singularly insulated society, it is shocking just HOW indifferent they have been to ( good )ideas such as promoting tourism for foreigners in Japan.

Though this may seem strange in the context of massive Japanese overseas tourism, it is an aspect of the "bubble" world most Japanese live in. 90 % of tourism in Japan is for Japanese, not foreigners.

Similarly, I think it should be EMBARRASINGLY and forcefully "put to" the Japanese public that the world's oceans don't belong to them, to exploit at will, AND that THIS is one reason why "we" are angry about it.

Also, in general terms, the reality is that Japan, as one of top economies in the world has massive foreign investment at institutional level ect, so, as appealing as the idea is, this is not practical in any meaningful way.

In short, I would strongly urge anyone interested in "making" a meaningful change in Japanese politics to consider engaging the Japanese public in a serious and thoughtful way.

Even though their political impulses are ( usually ) dull, IF they get involved, they can change the way things are in Japan. If they don't, you can forget it, because of all the interest group lobby/corruption/ pride/ money involved.

You might also consider asking the LOCAL foreigner population ( more than 1 million of various nationalities) for help, as these are the "public face" of "the world" in Japan, not whats on CNN, or what most people in the pub in London think.

For context, I have lived in Japan 3 times, for a total of 7 years, also studied the Language. history and culture, society for a further 7 years, and am married to a Japanese national, so please don't bother saying "what would you know ect...", I may not be back to check anyway, please just assume I may just know something more about Japan than 99% of you and please THINK about what I said, and pass it on to someone who can act on it if you are able.

Hopefully it may be of some use.

Good luck

Paul Watson has the right idea but the wrong methods.