But is it Vegan? The Chicken Fat for Biofuel Debate Heats Up
by Sami Grover, Carrboro, NC, USA on 01.23.08
While this TreeHugger’s local biodiesel supplier, Piedmont Biofuels, may get its hands dirty in everything from soap making to community supported agriculture in an effort to support local resilience and resource efficiency, that does not put it above criticism from some quarters. Recently a row has broken out in the local press over Piedmont’s use of poultry fat as a feedstock. On the one side stand the vegan-purists, who claim that any purchase of waste animal fats is inexcusable, due to the support it gives to the factory farming industry:
The use of animal feedstocks financially aids the producers of them by providing one more revenue stream, allowing them to avoid disposal costs—whether it is the main item produced or incidental to the production of some other. If you purchase a product, you support its production.Given the energy-intensive (typically petroleum-based) nature of raising meat, and the inefficiencies of conversion of plant protein to animal protein (with the associated waste of water and land), animal-derived biodiesel is not eco-friendly. If Piedmont Biofuels is earnest about promoting alternatives to an unsustainable energy policy, it seems contradictory that it would formulate animal-based biodiesel.
Others, however, advocate a more pragmatic approach, with a response to this letter (from Bob, another vegan) claiming that waste chicken fat represents the lesser of two evils, when compaired to petroleum-based diesel:
With all due respect Joe, this sounds like what Voltaire was considering when he said that "The perfect is the enemy of the good." As a vegan, I find CAFO's (confined animal feeding operations) reprehensible. As a planetary citizen, I find petroleum reprehensible as well. […] Poultry farmers have been getting paid for their poultry fat for years, this is not a new revenue stream for them created by biodiesel demand. Poultry fat gets fed to cattle, swine, and poultry, and turned into cosmetics among other uses. […] A firm like Piedmont Biofuels has two clear choices today - utilize feedstocks that are financially sustainable, or cease operations and send their customers back to petroleum diesel.
This lead to a pretty scathing response from Joe, a “real vegan”, who claimed that Bob was "no vegan [he] would like to hang out with", before Evan at Piedmont stepped in to try and calm the fray:
We have all been working tirelessly with minimal staff all winter, trying to fight the cold and the equally tireless upward trend in feedstock prices. We are, as always, doing the best we can. I believe we've referenced our recycled poultry feedstock several times in our co-op membership e-mails, but I agree we could do a better job at making it clear. Thank you for the tip. On the bright side, we are still displacing mideast imported crude oil, one gallon at a time, with a local waste product. Imagine what might happen if we all stopped complaining about the imperfect, and tried to focus on the good. . .
It certainly makes for interesting times when conscious consumers start asking whether their fuel is suitable for vegans. While we are, to some degree, sympathetic to those who want nothing to do with any animal-derived product ever, we tend to come down on the side of the pragmatists. After all, imported oil is hardly the stuff of wonder for our animal kingdom, and we can’t see the fate of the chicken farming industry hanging by a thread on whether or not their waste fat gets used for feeding more animals or for fuelling more cars.
What this episode does illustrate is that there are no quick fixes and no easy answers. Ultimately, nearly every TreeHugger would like to see an end to both CAFOs and fossil fuels. Sometimes we have to make some imperfect choices on the way to getting there.
[Disclaimer: This author has just purchased a diesel vehicle and is in the process of becoming a member of Piedmont Biofuels. He is not actively involved in their operations.]
::The Independent::via Piedmont Biofuels::
Soylent Green is good for the environment, too...
It's not just vegans but vegetarians who may choose to not buy Piedmont's chicken-fat fuel if informed about its origin. I toured their funky, inventive facilities this summer and while there learned for the first time about the animal fat in the fuel. The point raised in The Independent was that consumers should be informed about what they are buying.
The Piedmont Biofuel website has images of leaves but not chickens on their home page.And here's the first entry on the FAQ page (bolding added):
As a treehugging vegetarian, I must choose between a lot of ways to green my lifestyle using a limited amount of money. Converting my car to biodiesel moves way down the list once I know that the local supplier is part of the factory-farm network.
This doesn't mean that Piedmont Biodisel isn't doing overall good work, just that there are plenty of chicken eaters in the area who can and should responsibly support the whole cycle of growing chickens for meat. Me, I'm going to use the money to replace my drafty single-pane windows instead.
It's not just vegans but vegetarians who may choose to not buy Piedmont's chicken-fat fuel if informed about its origin. I toured their funky, inventive facilities this summer and while there learned for the first time about the animal fat in the fuel. The point raised in The Independent was that consumers should be informed about what they are buying.
The Piedmont Biofuel website has images of leaves but not chickens on their home page.And here's the first entry on the FAQ page (bolding added):
As a treehugging vegetarian, I must choose between a lot of ways to green my lifestyle using a limited amount of money. Converting my car to biodiesel moves way down the list once I know that the local supplier is part of the factory-farm network.
This doesn't mean that Piedmont Biodisel isn't doing overall good work, just that there are plenty of chicken eaters in the area who can and should responsibly support the whole cycle of growing chickens for meat. Me, I'm going to use the money to replace my drafty single-pane windows instead.
I use soy-based B100 from http://www.agri-greenbiodiesel.com/. It works great in my turbo diesel smart fortwo cdi. When it is +6 celcius or colder I use between 5%and 20% mixed with regular diesel. I haven't had a problem yet and my cars exaust kinda smells like a chip truck mixed with popcorn:) If I can find someone who has used pure b-100,and has had no problems, in their smart during warmer temps then I might do that also.
I've only been using biodiesel from piedmont biofuels for a few months now and I knew where it came from. Besides it seems to me that while supporting the factory farms is bad, they do a lot more good to make up for it. Let not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
"there are plenty of chicken eaters in the area who can and should responsibly support the whole cycle of growing chickens for meat."
What is it with passive Vegetarians? You see it as wrong, yet you have no problem with others doing it? What good is that for the animals?
"Besides it seems to me that while supporting the factory farms is bad, they do a lot more good to make up for it."
You can make up for unnecessary mass murder? I think not. The exploitation of ay sentient being, human or otherwise, is immoral and should be deemed illegal.
I thought Treehugger had more people who were sensitive to the immorality of animal slavery. In reality, many of you have amoral feelings about it. It's disturbing. When will the environmentalists embrace the animal rights. It can only help.
Here we go again ... the vege lovers are biased for their fuzzy friends , but not their plant friends. How audacious can one be? To imagine that plants are lifeless fodder for consumption is beyond any common sense. Yes, animals should be treated fairly. And so should plants. If you don't respect what you consume, you have a lot of room for growth. But you'd better hurry up, the end is near.
Vege soldiers: help me out here. How can you be so one-sided with your love, and also so overt with hate? You as confusing as those religious fanatics - full of contradiction.
Is there a list of which life forms vegetarians and vegans like and which life forms the don't care about at all? I find it interesting that they care more about the food they don't eat than the food they do eat. They hate humans that eat rabbit, but love other animals that eat rabbit. V's, please make up your minds.
Hey there anonymous, why don't you do some research before you go and take a jab at vegans for their apparent 'contradictions'
"Is there a list of which life forms vegetarians and vegans like and which life forms the don't care about at all? "
How about creatures with a central nervous system that feel pain? I think those can all safely be lumped into the category of things vegans care about. If anyone tells you otherwise then they aren't vegan.
"They hate humans that eat rabbit, but love other animals that eat rabbit."
Those rabbits haven't lived a torturous life on a factory farm, and are being killed in a natural way. I have no qualms with carnivorous animals, it's completely natural and sustainable for them to eat other animals. There is no such thing as a sustainable or humane way for humans to consume animals. In today's modern society there is simply no reason for humans to be consuming meat.
And on the issue of chicken fat in bio fuel? I think that the veg community could not support such a thing in good conscience, especially since plant-based alternatives already exist.
Hopefully one day all this banter will be put to rest with electric cars.
This sounds like another case of "my vegan dick is bigger than your vegan dick." So childish. Seriously, no matter what people are not going to stop eating chicken (and it's fine if they do) so I have no problem if they use animal fat for biofuel. As far as the factory farm debate goes that industry does need to be changed. Animals do need to be in better conditions but we can still eat them. What we don't eat we can then use that for what other means we find fit.
aside, of course, for biology and evolution.
"You can make up for unnecessary mass murder?"
I never knew mass murder could be so delicious, especially deep fried mass murder.
All joking aside, this anthropomorphization of all creatures seems a bit extreme. Words "murder" and "slavery" are trivialized when applied to lower life forms. I understand there is a long way to go with regard to how animals are treated in factory farms, but it is far down on my list of priorities compared to mass murder and slavery of members of my own species. It is admirable that some people do not wish to cause further harm to other animals, and I fight the urge to mock those willing to make the sacrifice of not eating meat. However, I cannot take seriously those who are more concerned with the welfare of chickens over that of mankind.
right, so it seems that some folks won't even talk to those who use animal products in a civil tone. clearly this is a constructive in terms of creating a dialog to discuss how to better the world. i fear that i will be ignored because i not only consume tasty tasty animals, but wear their skins.
some of us choose to eat animals. some of us choose to vote for $DifferentPoliticalParty. some of us worship $DifferentDiety. if we can reduce the damage done by doing "bad" things it's great, especially if it's allowing those who don't care if they impinge upon others via overcomsumption or moral/ethical superiority to do less damage to others around them, great.
So the Vegan solution is just to dump all the unused fat into a landfill, or just live in denial about the fact people will continue to eat chicken? No real solutions presented by the Vegan crowd.
One of the tales of the Native American was how they would utilize every part of the killed animal so nothing went to waste. It looks as if turning unused chicken fat into fuel would be similar to this ideal rather than just dumping it into a landfill which will produce more greenhouse emissions in addition to the petrol burned which would have been replaced by the chicdiesel.
First off, I'm not a Vegetarian of any stripe, but I am a Diesel nerd.
I'm having a hard time with the whole Biodiesel thing in general, because as its generally produced now, it has the some of the same problems as Ethanol based fuels, i.e. requires more land be claimed for growing feedstock, and/or drives up the cost of food for poor people.
One solution: Make Biodiesel out of people! ....a la Soylent Green!
Think about! It creates one of those oh so rare economic phenomena, the recursive demand curve! Demand is reduced, by transforming it into Supply!
Think of all problems it would solve!(Sarcasm)
I remember when one of the most talked about subjects in environmental circles was how important it was to save the rain forests of South America. What do we hear now? We hear how totally awesome and progressive it is that Brazil is going to be energy independent using Biofuels made from switch grass. Huh! Notice how they never talk about where that switch grass is going to be grown?
Pop Quiz For the Vegetarians/Vegans: What agricultural practice is the greatest destroyer of natural animal and insect habitat? Even using the most organic/traditional methods.
Nope! Its not raising beef or dairy farms! Sorry!
Try again! Nope, it's not hog lots either!
It's the growing of rice! Think about it. How many times have you seen pictures of Panda bears frolicking happily in a rice paddy on a hillside in China? Probably never.
Ok, let's try again with another question: What agricultural practice, again in its most natural organic form, produces the most methane gas per acre used?
Darn! Still obsessing over cows?
Its the growing of rice in rice paddies.
I don't see why animal rights even has to enter into this debate. Animal rights issues tend to be too charged with rhetoric, in my opinion. Raising animals for meat is a large burden on the environment. When measured per calorie, rather than by total production, a much more significant standard in my mind, meat consumption puts a far greater strain on the environment. Russell's comments ignore all the plants grown to support animals agriculture. And even if rice production is as bad as he says it doesn't make make meat production any better.
Simply put environmental standards should be used to determine what sources are used for biodiesel, since environmentalism is the most prominent focus of the movement.
By that logic, corn is out too.
I think part of the excitement of being involved in the biodiesel movement is the excitement of doing something good and innovative. And if it is possible to fight the oil corporations, corn lobbies, and factory farmers while helping the improve our environmental practices, doesn't that really make for a much better product?
Won't this clog my car-teries?
One of the main reasons I'm vegetarian is that I find the entropy involved disgusting, as is the methane production (as well as a host of other issues). So, using energy that would go to waste from animal production doesn't really bug me. And even my vegan friend is willing to wear leather, although he tries to avoid it.
just a clarification on the first comment from a former fuelmaker...
the fuel made by workers at the piedmont biofuels coop is 100% locally collected vegetable oil. chicken fat is only used at the industrial site, so the statement on the website is, in fact, correct.
if you really think that piedmont biofuels is part of the factory farm network, go talk to them and i think they will change your mind.
This is a wild ride.
I think I side with the vegans. If your ethic dictates "no animal anything ever," than you can't really run around on poultry derived biofuels. Roger on that.
The notion that Piedmont's website is misleading is ridiculous, however. The vegangelicals analyzed a site that is 20% static content from years ago (which is obsolete) but ignored the 80% of the site which is dynamic, and has poultry all over the place.
I'd like to see the debate elevated.
I'm assuming that if we can't drive around on animal fat derived fuel, we certainly can't drive on petroleum. And I will happily concede the debate to anyone who is not driving around on either.
After all, petroleum does more damage to the animal kingdom...
And before anyone takes a swipe at Bob, I suggest you stop by and buy some of his homemade tempeh before deciding whether or not you'd like to be his friend.
Well there is just one more datapoint, but I'm vegan and a biodiesel user, and the idea of using rendered animal fat doesn't bother me in the slightest. Reusing wasted fat isn't going to increase the demand for dead animal flesh. On top of that, the use of petroleum is responsible for habitat loss and extinctions, which alone should be enough to give any vegan pause. We have to stop thinking about these issues as compartmentalized "causes" and look at the bigger picture.
"Pop Quiz For the Vegetarians/Vegans: What agricultural practice is the greatest destroyer of natural animal and insect habitat? Even using the most organic/traditional methods."
-Thats all fine and well but think of it like this. Rather than eat the animal itself, cut out the middle man and eat what the animal eats. You do what you can and make choices that are as moral as they can be. A big way to cut your carbon is to not eat meat, so in my mind, there is no question and no valid argument to not at the very least go vegetarian if you are truly compassionate about the environment.
"And even my vegan friend is willing to wear leather, although he tries to avoid it."
-They are not vegan. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegan#Definition
"Well there is just one more datapoint, but I'm vegan and a biodiesel user, and the idea of using rendered animal fat doesn't bother me in the slightest."
-But you wouldn't eat it? And you wouldn't wear it? Why would you "consume" it in any other fashion?
By allowing it to happen, promoting it by using it, you are saying its ok to continue to do so. I feel as if most "vegans" you know are in it for the wrong reasons.
This discussion points out how much all of us really care about doing the right thing. We are all striving to mitigate the damage we've done to our environment by eliminating our dependency on petroleum.
Unfortunately, petroleum products are so entrenched in our lifestyle it is almost impossible to avoid them, whether it be in our fuel tank, our diet (yes, even vegan food is made from oil) our gadgets, home furnishings or clothing.
I became a vegan some years ago in an effort to reduce my environmental footprint. I'm convinced that eating lower on the food chain is a good thing for the planet. In a perfect world, we wouldn't use oil to grow grain to feed it to livestock so we could eat them.
The use of biofuels is another good way to reduce our footprint. In a perfect world, we could grow enough food crop to fuel every aspect of our lives. We could do that, in a perfect world, without anyone going hungry. Or having to give up animal protein.
I'd like to point out that chicken fat is not a waste product. Chicken fat is sold for use in animal feed, cosmetics, lubricants and biodiesel. All things being equal, I believe making fuel from chicken fat beats feeding it to cattle.
Hey all...Just one point!
The petro you "V's" drive around on and is used to power the machines to grow & harvest your non-meats is carbon based! Meaning; like plants, the animals that also died millions of years ago are apart of that carbon fuel cycle so just tone it the hell down a bit and lets chat about real things that matter! OIL is bad! Getting oil and coal from under the ground...Bad! Not waiting 2.3 million years to use the damn animal fat (caged or not) for a fuel source…..NOT BAD!
I mean how far do you want to take it and at what expense? If we keep dividing within our concerned global community then "they win". What if we don't become united and really make change and just buzz around and miss the big point that’s “looming above us”!
Together we can make change ….divided ......we become the next carbon cycle fuel for the next generation of being on this great planet!!!
MH
Ps: The weapon we have is Love!
HP Alliance
It's nice to see this discussion brought up to a meaningful level. Thanks to camille and marty for some useful and insightful comments.
My take on fuel feedstocks is that you need to look at the energy it took to get that feedstock into a fuel. The damage from petroleum to the social and environmental economies is far greater than that of most any biodiesel. you could make.
There are certainly several layers of 'green' of biodiesel feedstocks. In my opinion chicken fat will beat commercially raised monoculture soy and palm oils And used cooking oil or other 'waste' veggie oils will probably beat chicken fat. Big Soy is a sort of factory farm nearly as dangerous as that of the CAFO's. But chicken fat is a minor byproduct of the industry moneywise, and one of the only affordable feedstocks in the south. If consumers were willing to pay more for vegetable based fuels, Piedmont would be more than happy to run their entire plant off of local canola. But Americans, and I'm willing to believe, even vegetarian Americans want CHEAP fuel. And the only way to compete with petroleum prices is to use chicken or try to collect your own oil, something that Piedmont is beginning to get into.
These attacks on piedmont are coming from a fairly uneducated stance if we view the debate out of the micro level it started at. I'm sure that they'd be more than willing to have the conversation, their plant is quite the public spot.
Obviously cutting out driving in general and focusing on biking, walking, carpooling and locally produced foods is the best place to be, but as long as we're talking about internal combustion for transportation I think that biodiesel is a best managament practice.
(disclosure, i was formerly employed by piedmont as the head alchemist/chicken fat orderer)
this is an interesting argument. i personally would rather see the animal product used to displace petroleum rather than fed back into the CAFO system.
however, a question for the hardcore vegans: what do you think of homebrew biodiesel?
i mean, if i decide to brew up some of the stuff myself, i'm likely to get used veg. oil from local shops (which is way cheaper than fresh, new oil). shops that more often than not sell dishes with meat in them. hell, the oil was probably used to deep fry chicken or something similar. and if not, they still likely sell meat in one form or another.
so i'm encouraging animal cruelty/slavery either way, right? or should i only get waste vegetable oil from vegan restaurants?