Taking the Train to New York: The Only Way to Fly
by Lloyd Alter, Toronto 
on 12.11.07
8:30 Toronto
The trip started so much easier than a plane flight; An easy subway ride to Union station, climb into a huge leather seat in Business class (all of 25 bucks more than regular;then gliding along the shore of lake Ontario among the new Condos on the shore. the car is half full, and we have our own little cafeteria and dining area. It is an Amtrak train with Via rail staff, who switch at the border.
11:30 Niagara Falls, Canada
Approaching the border, they close the bar for two hours to allow for customs. Will they let me in? Am I in their computer? We know what they think of enviros at Homeland Security, and I have written some not nice things about FEMA and even mentioned Michael Chertoff by name. I am nervous.
12:15 Niagara Falls , New York
That was intense. We all had to grab our bags and get off the train, and go into the tiny little amtrak station and wait to get a brief interview, and then back on to the train. Everyone was very nice except for one guard who went to intimidation school and wouldn't let me go to the bathroom. But they let me in!
1:00 Buffalo
I hit the dining car for a bite and find that it makes airplane food look like haute cuisine. I remember a trip out west when i was a teenager; they were plucking chickens on the train for dinner. Here they nuke tired sandwiches; I ordered a soup which came in such a heavy duty container it could have derailed the train if put on the
tracks. Lesson for next trip: bring lunch. But what can you bring? The form they give you when you cross the border says no fruit, no meat, do I dare to eat a peach?
2:45 Somewhere between Buffalo and Rochester
I strike up a conversation with the guy in front of me, who seems to have an endless supply of interesting environmental books. It turns out he is Michael Egan, an "environmental Historian" and professor at McMaster University on his way to Washington to meet Barry Commoner. It's his third trip in six months, always takes the train. He notes that it is a great place to get a lot of work and reading done without distraction (except for me).
3:00 Toto, we're not in condos anymore
On the Canadian side, we were sandwiched between the water and the highway; very pretty and cranes and condos everywhere ,giving way to the vineyards and orchards of Niagara. It is so different on the American side, running past abandoned buildings and junked cars, very tired places that remind me of Paul Simon's My Little Town. Infrastructure everywhere, buildings, canals, bridges, factories, assets on the ground that are just going to waste.
Rochester, New York
8:00 Schenectady
An hour behind schedule and it is getting boring. It isn't very social, everyone is in their own world, perhaps the iPod and Blackberry has forever changed train travel as well. I tried to listen to Barbara Kingsolver but couldn't get into it ; however Steve Martin's autobiography made four hours fly by.
Lessons for next trip: all three volumes of Lord of the Rings, and a notebook computer instead of my Treo.
9:00 Hudson NY
They switched to an electric engine and we are bombing down the Hudson River, it almost feels like Europe. It still isn't a party, but people are chatting.
As for me, my day job is reading and writing, and I can do that as easily on the train as I can at my desk (although a high speed internet connection would be nice, and I dread my bill for checking email on my Treo)
I had asked the engineer how much fuel he was using and he answered "I don't know, a couple of hundred gallons." So I cannot do an exact comparison of fuel per passenger, but suspect it was a lot less. It was also a third the price of flying, not even including getting to and from the airport, and relatively trouble free, and the Amtrak and Via people were all nice, cooperative and friendly. I look forward to repeating the experience.
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I am very excited to be taking the train for two days across Canada to visit some friends and family out west. I have never taken a train but I would imagine it to be a very romantic and exciting experience, at least for the first three hours. But I will make a note to bring lots of movies, thank you.
So, twelve and a half hours ... station to station. And that's an hour behind schedule.
What time would it have taken to fly (including pre-flight, etc.)?
Did you discuss with the frequent train user his experiences?
Perhaps it'd be good to write up an account to send to VIA and Amtrak to help 'em improve.
David.
Great story. Too bad it takes so long!
At the end of it all it was that bad - but what do you say of the cross-border hassles? If only the immigration officers could come on the train and check you through!!! like in Europe!
One day I guess...
We are taking the train from LA to Chicago next week and I am so looking forward to it!
That picture labeled Schenectady is in fact, ROCHESTER, NY thank you very much! I live here! LOL.
That picture labeled Schenectady is in fact, ROCHESTER, NY thank you very much! I live here! LOL.
LA: thank you for correcting me, I got confused.
Nice train journal.
Anyone want to read my train journal? I go about 15 miles from Princeton Junction to New Brunswick on NJ Transit, a few days a week for class.
[G]
DS
Yup, Amtrak is definitely great, use to be better though. I am surprised that this site which is now owned by discovery? has not developed a relationship with mass transit orientated site.
When gas hits 4 amtrak is gonna be in a major crunch with increased passengers that they do not have the rolling stock to deal with..
One of my beefs with trains on the Canadian side, at least, is that cargo gets priority. The lines are owned by CN, so if there's grain or oil, etc to move, passengers get to wait. Why is this? I cannot fathom why passengers are not considered the most time-sensitive cargo. It's not as if there are no stockpiles of goods and Montreal or Toronto are going to starve to death if their grain train is 15 minutes late!
Thanks for the story and the pics...
Makes me wanna take the train to NY.
They USED to come on the train for that border crossing. I used to take that train frequently. Toronto-Rochester and back. I'm guessing it's the whole homeland security thing. Not that it was a walk in the park before 9/11 either... No kidding, G.I.s with M-16 rifles and German Shepherds, every time. I used to loathe VIA, but flying and AMTRAK give you all new respect for them.
LA: other passengers and the conductor told me that this was an aberration, that they usually come on the train.
Sounds good :-). I can recommend books, when I was taking the train for an hour every day (each way) in England over the summer I think I read at least one book a week! I'm not so sure about movies -- but, I'd have trouble finding a 12-hour rail journey in Britain! That's an impressive distance you must have covered!
In Europe you don't need customs checks between most countries, so the train just goes straight through: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement
They do check between the UK and France/Belgium, but that's done before you board the train. You have to arrive 30 minutes before the train you want to take leaves, they glance at your passport and wave you through (I don't think anyone cares about leaving the UK). It would be silly to stop in the middle of the tunnel though! Going back to the UK they wave me through too, but that's presumably because I'm EU/British ;-), I expect others have more trouble.
David, how long is the train to take from LA to Chicago?
i take amtrak frequently up (and down) the east coast on the U.S. I love taking trains, but amtrak is a bit of a dissapointment: it's accumulated 30 billion in debt since its creation in 1971 creating a huge cost to U.S taxpayers(it is owned by the U.S. gov), it only accounts for 1% of all transport in the U.S., and it's speed can't even compare to trains in europe or japan.
its quite unfortunate.
Train is great. In France, traveling through the country is just much easier since they introduced the high speed train in the 90s. Lyon to Paris in exactly two hours, Paris to Marseille in 3 hours... airlines trying to compete with that just went bankrupt because one, the train is often after, two, it's much easier, three, you leave from the center to the center, and four, it's more comfortable.
I travel between London and Edinburgh quite often (yeah I know, ewww, British Transport). A flight from London to Edinburgh takes about 1 hour and 15 minutes. Of course that does not include getting to the airport (at least 1 hour from central London, maybe 2 hours in some cases), checking in and getting through security (another hour), getting your stuff back when you arrive (another 30 minutes) and getting back to Edinburgh from the airport (30 minutes).
Compared to that, the train is 4 hours and 30 minutes, running every half hour from London King's Cross to Edinburgh Waverley, the center to the center. There are power sockets for your laptop, free internet for everyone on board, a restaurant and a bar, lots of toilets, large windows, a quiet coach, space to walk if you need to, etc. The price of tickets is more or less the same, depending on when you book.
Michael Egan. I took a Canuck History class from him back in 2003 or so. Refreshingly not a pushy academia liberal. Oh, I got a B.
My dad loves to tell the story of when we took the train from Florida to PA to visit relatives. I was barely one and I don't remember it. He always ends with, "of course, we could never afford this luxury now." Why has train travel become so expensive. I always check the train fares before buying plane tickets home, but it never fails that I can save more than $100 by flying. I refuse to believe trains are actually more expensive to run than airplanes.
My dad loves to tell the story of when we took the train from Florida to PA to visit relatives. I was barely one and I don't remember it. He always ends with, "of course, we could never afford this luxury now." Why has train travel become so expensive. I always check the train fares before buying plane tickets home, but it never fails that I can save more than $100 by flying. I refuse to believe trains are actually more expensive to run than airplanes.
I've been considering taking the train from the UK to the middle east. Takes about 3 days, but what a journey it would be!
it is so funny you are totally excited about riding a train...
you sound like a child who've got to drive a car for himself for the first time.
i can hardly imagine anything more normal than taking a train, be it in spain, greece or Russia. The custom guards (if any) just get on the train and check the IDs and then get off again. the train
does not have to wait. Cargo trains wait for passenger trains to pass and this is just normal and ordinary.
the only problem here in Germany, the train transportation keeps getting more and more expensive, so if you are not traveling alone it's often cheaper to drive and sometimes to fly.
I'd love to go to NYC by train. Guess I am going to check this out.
Did you need to have a passport?
more posts like this please.
the CRAZY thing is, it's cheaper to go from Toronto to New York than it is to go Toronto to Ottawa.
VIA rail feels like a government agency, so expect a certain level of competence...
At least VIA has WiFi Internet on-board for a small fee.
Great post! Last month we took the Amtrak from NYC to Montreal. The view when traveling along the Hudson is brilliant! The food was terrible, so definitely bring lunch (and dinner). Amtrak does serve Green Mountain coffee however, so grab a cup and make sure you bring a good book! Beats the heck out of flying in my opinion if you have the time to spare. Train travel is not very fast, hopefully we can catch up to the Europeans with regard to speed. Anyone know what happened with the Amtrak vote in Congress a few months ago? We need more riders to justify any more tax dollars going into the Amtrak, so take a train!
I took this same train a few years ago (less than 5) and the customs guys did come on board then.
Funny thing was the laughs I got from the conductors when I asked if we would be on time. They would all laugh and shake their heads, smiling, as though I was a child asking a very silly question. No surprise then when we were three hours late arriving, and all but one of my friend's friends who were supposed to meet us at 9:00 at a bar were long gone by midnight.
The reasons given for delays varied from 'they're working on the tracks' to 'a stopped freight in front of us' to 'no idea, sorry'.
Its mostly not their fault as they do share the tracks, the obvious solution is a dedicated high-speed track network.
When I travel long distances by train, I try to find a red-eye and sleep through it all. It really SEEMS like I save time, because I wake up and I am there, with the whole day ahead of me. Of course, I could do this on a plane, but they are too fast. Nothing like the rhytm of a train to catch some zzzz's.
Great post. I love the idea of a train ride, but I have to agree with Liam in that it just takes so long sometimes :(
It's sad to think that so many towns upstate have become 'land that time forgot'. People keep using resources, and moving on to the next town when things become a bit dull. I think another problem is that everyone keeps moving down to the City (NYC), or to other states. I know a few towns are talking to Albany for funds so they can 'rebuild' tourism. Many of these towns have the ability to be hubs for people looking to get away for a little while, with the natural beauty and quaint B&Bs in this part of the state. Crossing Fingers.
can I recommend www.seat61.com as a resouce about train travel?
I'm just back from a return trip - Montreal to NY on Amtrak. I thought it would be a picturesque trip, and greener too. It was certainly cheaper than the flight - $61 each way.
Ok, so it takes 11 hours (a car would take around 6) and the food in the café car will never win any good awards, but on the whole, I give it the thumbs up. No check-in, no immigration, no hassles with baggage, no getting there 2 hours before departure, no commuting from the terminal to downtown via a long, pricey taxi journey. You arrive, board, depart, deboard and arrive downtown.
The seats are fairly roomy, the toilets (now they have an on-board cleaner) are usable throughout the trip, and you plug your laptop into a power bar that runs alongside your seat.
What could make it better? Go faster. Stop less. Install wi-fi. Give me the option of sitting next to a cute girl or interesting personality without having to trust to fate?
I am planning on attending SXSW music festival in Austin, TX in March, and I live in Colorado, so I thought I would take Amtrak rather than drive or fly. Turns out I would have to travel to Missouri first, in order to go to Austin. Grumble.
Re: cost of the train vs. aircraft - let's not forget that someone has to pay for the land the tracks are on, as well as their maintenance. I'm sure there are fees for aircraft to operate in and out of airports, but do they pay for the air? And the airport fees are a joke compared to the fuel they burn just idling on the tarmac (I have that on pretty good authority).
So Amtrak has to pay for the right of way and its maintenance, fees at terminals (do they own them?)as well as catenary and other required systems.
Also - you can launch more planes than trains because they can fly on different vectors. Trains have to share the track.
Who pays for air traffic control? Lots of questions here, but the answer for the expense of train travel is most likely the land.
Dave
There is a major problem with the way that Canada's Via Rail prices their tickets. It is more expensive for me to take the train across Canada than to fly, despite the fact that it takes significantly longer to take the train. I've rode the train before on short trips and enjoyed it, but the cost perplexes me and forces me to fly on long journeys.
A train ticket should always be under the regular price of a plane ticket.
I love trains too, but one question whar happen to overseas travel like the Hawaiians islands you still need airplanes. we need alternative fuels for them.
but I still do not dismiss train and the automotive for greater pleasure and more efficient way to travel
sincerely
Jose Chavez
The border scenario on this trip was abnormal. Typically the customs guards board the train. 13 hours--TO to NY is a long time, but arriving door to door is nice and being able to spread out is great. It really is a nice place to work. If only Amtrak would provide wireless service, no one would fly again.
Glad to hear some old Pullman students are still around. I used to give out Bs?? I must have been soft back then...