Honda Bucks the Trend, Announces It Will Produce A Hydrogen Car Next Year
by Andrew Posner, Rhode Island, USA on 11.28.07
California's proposed Hydrogen Highway may still be in its infancy, but starting next year Southern Californians will be able to lease the FCX Clarity, what Honda is touting to be a full-fledged production fuel cell vehicle. The announcement came at this year's Los Angeles Auto Show , where all the big automakers have unveiled their latest eco-models, including Chevy's new Tahoe Hybrid SUV, which just won Green Car of the Year . The Hybrid Tahoe is indicative of a general trend toward hybrid and flexfuel vehicles, and away from the greatly hyped hydrogen fuel cell car. Movies like "Who Killed the Electric Car" and negative press coverage, combined with the Big Threes reluctance to embrace the technology, had led many to believe hydrogen was a dead end.
Honda, however, has been moving forward with fuel cell technology ever since they debuted the FCX back in 2002, despite the lack of fueling stations and questions about the environmental implications of hydrogen production. They have steadily tweaked and improved the vehicle, to the point that it now boasts a range of 270 miles per tank, fuel economy of 68 miles per gallon, and a lightweight lithium-ion battery pack. The big breakthrough seems to be in the 45% smaller powertrain,which frees up space for the larger hydrogen tank and battery pack, and increases the power-to-weight ratio by 25%. It is still unclear how many Clarities will be manufactured in 2008, but dont expect to see one in your neighborhood anytime soon; they will only be leased for three years to certain customers in Southern California, at a cost of $600 per month.
Via: ::Green Car Congress and ::NY Times
See also: ::Honda FCX-Concept Series Name to be Announced, ::Honda Shows Off FCX Fuel Cell Concept Car, ::Honda FCX Fuel Cell Vehicle: Production in 3-4 Years, ::More Details on Honda's 2006 FCX Fuel Cell Car, ::Honda's FCX Fuel Cell: Production in 2008?
I just spent the summer living in japan, and one thing I will say is that there, and in Honda's mind, hydrogen is anything but dead.
This car recieved more advertising than any other Honda offering of the time, even though it will only be out in japan on limited leases (the same way it will be released in the US).
Good to see it going forward though, looking forward to seeing the home charging station in a view years.
If they lease them, they can take them back. Didn't Honda lease an EV to meet the CARB mandate back in the 90's? Do any of those EV's remain in private hands?
Thanks anyway, but I buy my vehicles, I won't rent one for $21,600 and give it back.
Ah - the EV. Now that was a car. Strange how they took them all back eh?
I can't wait to see one of these on the road.
This will be Honda's equivalent to the Prius.
If enough get bought, it will create a micro-market.
There are many places in the world where electricity at the plug is dirt cheap, or, are in a no-snow zone for solar-to-hydrogen.
I don't think dedicated hydrogen pump stations will exist any time soon.
Much like Hymotion/A123 are doing for the Toyota Prius with a Plug-In kit + improved batteries next year.
Still disappointing that the very best way to do it, Diesel-Generator, electric motors in wheels, small battery pack, isn't gaining much ground.
C'mon Mitsubishi !
Off topic, but why isn't there a push to run airplanes on hydrogen? technical difficulties or nobody has thought of it yet?
I could run an electric vehicle and IF a quick charge system were developed or more likely a small light tow behind generator trailer would be unlimited in range.
Planes can't stop to "recharge"
I don't like electric cars, or hydrogen cars, or even solar cars. I don't like cars at all.
Why can't people take the bus, or train, or bicycle? Building a vehicle uses on average twice as much fuel as it will burn in its lifetime.
What does that mean? It means that it is better for the environment to drive your SUV for another 5 years than to buy a Prius. It means that two people in an SUV are saving more fuel than a guy in a Prius even if the Prius saves one full average lifetime of fuel in its life. It means no electric car will ever compete with a well-used minivan, and roads can't compete with trains or ships.
California epitomizes this stupidity, where everybody sticks their nose up at the huge SUV's THEY made trendy a decade ago, has the worst traffic I've seen outside Europe, and still nobody will take the bus.
If you live in Los Angeles like I do, taking public transportation is not an efficient way to get to work etc... My normal 1 hour commute would become 2 hours taking the bus. I dont have an extra 2 hours a day.
The low population density and large metropolitan area make Los Angeles very ill suited for public transportation. Los Angeles politicians continue to pour a lot of money into subways and large public transportation projects, but they all have pretty much failed miserably in that ridership is low.
Planes running on hydrogen? lol
You can buy a turboprop that runs on diesel.
However the next fuel being pushed for planes is butanol..
FYI, The 600$ includes insurance, maintenance and the the lease payment all from Honda.
Hydrogen cars are stupid and won't last in the creators mind.
The low population density and large metropolitan area make Los Angeles very ill suited for public transportation. Los Angeles politicians continue to pour a lot of money into subways and large public transportation projects, but they all have pretty much failed miserably in that ridership is low.
The Los Angeles region has one of the most comprehensive, well-utilized, and cheapest cost per passenger mile bus systems in the United States.
Dillon I read a Popular Mechanics article years ago that included a tests by the USAF running jets on hydrogen. It works very well as a fuel for turbines and may be a future aircraft fuel. Larger aircraft could be built with the cryo-storage of H2 in mind airports could have the fueling systems.
The Germans were using diesel planes in WW2 so nothing new there.
H2 as a fuel for cars is a whole other mater, H2 is bulky and hard to store in a smaller vehicle. It will probalby be better to have BEV for short trips and for longer trips get on a train.
BTW I called H2 a fuel but it is really an energy stroage medium. You have to put a whole bunch of energy in to produce it and then more energy to store it. Barring some large breakthrough H2 is very inefficent. My H2 jet comments above are assuming other fuel sources become too rare/expensive.
"Why can't people take the bus, or train, or bicycle?...California epitomizes this stupidity."
Because life involves a set of trade offs and a juggling of competing values. Using public transportation in LA may, as another poster noted, take twice as much time as driving. This increase in time, not to mention frustration and stress (yes, driving in LA can be stressful but not as much as a much longer commuting time), will cause people to be less efficient in doing their jobs--jobs that may be very socially valuable. And this loss of efficiency may be worse than the CO2 they emit from driving. If we want people to take public transportation, we have to design it so that it makes sense for them to do so. Until then, you can hate cars all you want, but standing in judgement from your ivory tower isn't going to be of any help.
To all of those complaining about paying $21,600 for a 3 year lease, do you realize how much a 100kw fuel cell stack costs? A Hydrogenics HyPM HD module of less power goes for well over 150k. Honda is taking a huge risk promoting the technology, in an attempt to show that not only is the technology feasable but superior to anything on the road.
Most people just don't understand the hydrogen concept, an energy carrier that has the potential to be made entirely from sustainable resources, efficiencies well over 70% (compared to 15% of gasoline and 40% of diesel) and a well to wheel model that truly offers zero emissions with a low production footprint and safer systems than a liquid energy carrier; yet everybody constantly knocks it because they don't know any better.
And yes, to answer some questions they are heavily researching planes running on H2. It actually takes very little convert turbine engines to hydrogen combustion.
Honda... what are you doing?
Hydrogen is inefficient. It takes more energy to produce it than it gives back... therefore go straight electric. Honda putting out a hydrogen vechile does nothing (for me) than turn me away. I think of Honda and Toyota as world leaders... but this makes me feel nothing but shame.
I look forward to a smaller company building a miniscule electric car. Paint it with solar panels too.... refuel while you drive, are parked, etc. Hydrogen... sheesh... give me a flippin break!
The fuel question is still not answered... Where are you going to fill that thing up? maybe the $600 month includes fuel delivery???
Smaller area countries should be able to have the infrastructure long before the large area of USA, but we'll still engineer it
Hydrogen cars are not what I want, and the leasing aspect is not appealing either.
Hydrogen cars still use a form of internal combustion and that means more moving parts, more things to go wrong and more vehicle maintenence.
The Tesla car has demonstrated that battery technology is available now to make electric cars a reality. In a few years, supercapacitors will greatly reduce charging times and extend range.
Electric cars offer more efficiency, more safety, less maintenence, less noise, and better performance. Cost is the current problem, but with mass production and continued developments in technology this will eventually be resolved too.
The Tesla car has demonstrated that battery technology is available now to make electric cars a reality.
The $100,000 two-seater with 200 mile range that hasn't been produced yet? That Tesla?
Hydrogen fuel cells and combustion engines that use hydrogen are two very different things, and the Honda FCX should not be confused with the latter. The hydrogen fuel cell does not involve internal combustion and as a power source is far more efficient.
For the love of God, people ... will someone stop the insanity over using hydrogen as an alternate fuel?!? It should be a non-starter!
The petro fuel situation *is* killing the planet ... no question. But ... what are the expected emmissions from a hydrogen-fueled vehicle?
WATER VAPOR!
Water vapor is a *worse* greenhouse gas than CO2!!! It is far more effective at trapping heat than ANY other greenhouse gas, including methane and carbon dioxide (I believe). We have an equilibrium amount, now, in the atmosphere that is not a problem. It doesn't stay in vapor form long enough to be a critical problem.
Or ... it hasn't, before.
But think of the effect if a majority of the planet's current petro-fueled vehicles become hydrogen powered! All that water vapor going into teh atmosphere ...! It will have climate impacts that will make today's Global Warming sceanrios seem downright benign!
(Added bonus: Where are they getting the H2? From COAL and other cheap hyrdocarbons ... failing to avoid the CO2 effect!)
I am stunned that no one is raising the alarm. Of all the bright scientists and engineers in the world ... where is the outcry?!?
Or is there a scientific aspect that I have completely missed? Please ... *someone* tell me I'm wrong and point out what I must have missed!
@Cathexis
There is no outcry because the atmospheric water cycle is a closed loop system. 71% of the Earth's surface is water and even a few million hydrogen cars is insignificant in comparison to those evaporative losses.
A fully grown tree loses a couple hundred gallons of water a day due to transpiration. 90% of the water plants use is evaporated into the atmosphere due to transpiration!
Whether or not water vapor compounds the effect of global warming (rising temps = more water vapor, hence more warming) is another issue entirely but water vapor emissions are not a justifiable concern.
Tata Motors is planning to produce Hydrogen Cars in 2006
Adressing the issues brought up here:
1 - fuel stations: there are about 5 hydrogen stations in socal (which is why this is the market for the fcx). Honda plans to focus its sales around the stations in torrance, santa monica, and irvine. As far as I know, all these stations (as well as the rest of the hydrogen highway) use renewable procedures to make the hydrogen. The Honda station in Torrance uses solar power to take hydrogen from natural gas. Honda is also working on a home fueling station which converts natural gas to hydrogen and uses the extra energy from the unit to heat and power the house. Eventually the natural gas could be replaced with biogas (i.e. from cow poop or landfill composting), resulting in net-zero carbon emissions. More stations are planned for production.
2 - Why H2 over BEV? Don't get me wrong, batteries are definitely better than H2 in short-distance commutes. However, it is more convenient to fill up a car with hydrogen in five minutes rather than charge for 10+ hours when stopping at a station in the middle of a road trip. The future will probably have a selection many different fuels available rather than one fuel.
3 - Water vapor as a greenhouse gas: Yes, it is true, water vapor is a very strong greenhouse gas. However, its effect depends on how much of it the air can hold. Depending on the conditions, air varies on how much water vapor it can hold before it rains. Warmer air tends to be more humid, and it is in these conditions when water is an effective greenhouse gas. When humidity is too high for the air to hold, it rains/snows/hails. In cold areas, the water vapor will quickly condense and liquid water is not a greenhouse gas (obviously, because it's not a gas in the first place). As Abe Lincoln (the commenter, not the president) says, more water is evaporated into the air from trees and bodies of water than hydrogen cars will emit. In the slim chance that water vapor emissions are discovered to be an issue, i don't see how it is difficult to capture these emissions to use as a source of more hydrogen. Conclusion - water vapor is probably only a bad greenhouse gas when the air is already warm.
4 - Price - What many should know is that this seemingly expensive $600/month price includes collision insurance and maintenance within that lease. Also, the $12,000 (yes, that's twelve THOUSAND) tax credit pays fore more than a year of the lease. If you do the math, it is equivalent to a 3 year lease costing $266.67 per month (for a million-dollar car). That's a pretty good deal.
Yes, hydrogen does have it's limitations (ie: storage and production) but we need to appreciate that Honda is introducing some technology which may change things for the better. Who knows, maybe in 5-10 years fuel cell vehicles will be as common as hybrids are today.