ATVs: Destroying the Climate and Environment for Fun

Lloyd,

Thank you for an articulate, non rage-addled post. When people clearly and calmly lay out their concerns, more gets done. I for one don't think this craze will last forever, namely because these things require more and more insurance every year. Perhaps there should be a secret fund to buy up used ones and use the metal to build artifical reefs.

ATV's... indeed, most recreational offroad vehicles... are the most useless waste of resources on the planet. Nothing that goes offroad gets even the slightest bit of fuel efficiency, and the noise and pollution that these vehicles make is downright ridiculous.

I find it especially amusing that the people that use these vehicles consider themselves 'outdoorsy' and that they're 'roughing it'. Probably the same folks that sit in an RV and call it 'camping'.

I've tried talking my local jeep club into doing a hike instead of running 20-some-odd jeeps through the forest, but that's like talking to a wall. A lot of these people have invested a *lot* of money and resources into making their vehicles "off-road" worthy, and they want to see a return on their investment - no matter who suffers for it.

Whereas there are legitimate uses for such vehicles (maybe), there should be special licensing associated with it. I feel similarly about the oversized SUVs that plague our highways - there should be licensing for legitimate use. A mom with two kids doesn't need an armored troop carrier to take care of her day (and she definitely doesn't know how to handle a vehicle that big).

Between the wastefulness of these vehicles in terms of resources and the lives taken when these behemoths completely ravage smaller cars in accidents, they should be controlled like weapons.

Okay, I digressed a little - but the point is made: special use vehicles should have legitimate licensing or controls.

Here in Germany, ATVs are street legal and are often used as commuting vehicles. They are somewhat more expensive than motorcycles and scooters of equivalent engine size, but as they have four wheels they are safer to drive. I'd like to have one myself, for trips that are too far for my bicycle but do not have enough cargo to justify driving my truck.

That said, I think the activity of "off-road" recreation needs to be severely curtailed, especially on public lands. In Europe off-road recreation is largely restricted to private areas which are set aside for such activities, such as old gravel quarries. I think this is a sensible way to do it.

I think you guys are overreacting... I have an ATV and there's nothing more fun than blazing down the trails in the wilderness and occasionally taking a break and taking in the sights.

Standard ATVs are not safer to drive on roads than motorcycles. At anything more than 60km/h they become incredibly unstable due to their bulbous tires, short wheelbase, and relatively high centre of gravity. They are designed for low speed traverse of rough ground.

My main issues with offroad vehicles are noise, pollution, and damage to pristine areas. As long as users stick to defined offroading areas and trails, and eventually phase in electric vehicles, it'll be all good. There's plenty of marginal land to have fun on.

I'm a serious mountain biker, so i empathize with the need for thrilling speed off road. We also come under flak from the snail-people who are into looking through binoculars at sparrows. Gee, what fun!

(...and Lloyd, I didn't mean to imply that YOU were bitter, I do find a lot of shrill language around this subject, tho. I think the best way to handle these things is to require them to adequate insurance. That would make sure irresponsible people don't get involved in the activity.)

Here in the US there's been a trend of ATV users and similar going onto private land without permission and tearing the holy crap out of it. A few farmers--it's usually farmland that gets torn up--have set traps for the riders. Sometimes riders get killed by these traps, and I can't say I'm sorry.

I thinka speed limit should be enforced on public lands. People using off-highway vehicles responsibly should not be punished. Hunters, fishermen, ranchers or rural residents are not tearing up the land as the highspeed, wheel spinning recreationalist are.

The industry could definitely improve their emmisions, including noise, and even design electric or hybrids.

Here's a bio-diesel candidate:
http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2005/07/06/roush-diesel-quad-atv/

Most of the trails I hike on are destroyed by mountain bikes of the pedal variety. So I think it is more than the vehicle causing the damage, it's the irresponsible operator.

I am most frustrated by the personal water craft that pollute every aspect of a lake with their destructive presence. There, I said it.

ATVs and JetSkis are the same thing, only one uses water and the other, land.

I went for a ride on a JetSki once and waved to my friends at the dock saying "Look at me - I'm a menace to society!!" All the while going about 3 mph.

Anyway, I am sure these things can't be comfortable and jumping logs and little furry animals etc has to get boring pretty quickly.

So Why can't the generic 'THEY' make then ELECTRIC?? I am sure you don't really need much range and you could have gobs of torque and the suspension to pull the battery weight.

I mean, how long do they have to go for? 5? 8 miles? After that I am sure the privates are fried!!

I hate the noise too. Plus all that smoke, etc.

How about a Tesla Golf Cart with big wheels on a lift kit?

vsk

I myself have an ATV. I just bought a new one that I spent a pretty penny on. I bought it because my old ATV had a carb which involved fiddling with the jets as I went into higher altitutes. The one I have has electronic fuel injection whcih makes the engines more efficent. I ride pretty much exclusively on BLM and public land. I stay to defined trails, and I make way for slower traveling people such as hikers and bikers. If I see them coming towards me, I'll pull to the side of the trail and shut down and wait the 10 minutes it takes for them to pass me. Even doing this I often get sneers and comments from hikers and bikers things like "way to destroy the environment" or "you're wrecking this wilderness" and the truth of the matter is I'm not. Now I don't doubt that there are a lot of people who ride ATV's and motorcycles who do, but there are also mountain bikers who do, and several hikers who will go to the bathroom in the woods, or will not break down a campfire used overnight. All the same, I think it is unfair to be painted in the same light as people who abuse it. I ride with a group of riders who we all take turns performing trail patrol where we ride the trails looking for other atv'ers who are breaking the rules. We are able to inform them of the regulations, and also call forest rangers. The way I see it, is there is a lot of wilderness out there. We all can't enjoy it, and it shouldn't be just restricted to hikers and mountain bikers either. What matters is that people respect the regulations and don't deviate from established trails. Unfortunatly that isn't good enough for some, and there are several groups who want to make it difficult for me to enjoy the enviornment untainted by pollution, by ranching, or anything else for that matter. As far as the noise complaints, it really isn't that much of a problem. People who do modify the exhusts are violating federal laws, and will eventually get stuck with a hike after their atv has been impounded. I think we can all share this environment no matter what your mode of transportation is. As far as fuel efficency. I can usually make a 100 mile loop on a little over 2 gallons of gas. This includes going up 30% grades, and up and down narrow switchbacks. Its hard enough to get that kind of efficency out of vehicles on flat roads.

These things ARE a fad. They won't be around forever. Remember how dirt bikes and minibikes were big in the 70s, but they petered out. And remember how Segways disappeared almost immediately? People look stupid on ATVs, which lack the style of motorcycles . People get severely injured on ATVs, and considering most people can't pay for college or their kids dentist bills, why would they continue to indulge their "power sports" fad.

Half of the fun of ATV is hanging out with friends and drinking beer, and eventually people will consider that those two things, alone, cost about 1 percent as much.

We'll we do share the planet. I'm not a big fan of ATV's and the concept of Trailblazing but there are other forms of off-roading which aren't as bad for the environment as you might think.

I did a lot of Off-Roading in my Jeep back in the days, but most Jeep Off-Roading is done as slower speeds and the groups are very good about making sure no littering happens. The value for the community is actually pretty high because Off-Roaders often are using fire trails in the woods. They often are making sure the trails aren't blocked by fallen tree's or other things.

For the most part I think that ATV's, Snow Mobiles, and Jet-Ski's are just the byproduct of having cheep fuel for so long.

I feel like most people here are hypocrites. If you truly cared for the environment you would'nt be using computers to complain about people
``destroying the environment`` ? They (computers) consume plenty of electricity and they`re mostly not recyclable, they are HIGHLY toxic.How many PC`s have you went through in the last 5 years? Yet here you are bitching about ATV`s. How many here drive an SUV? How about cars with six cylinders? How about a car with an engine bigger than 2 litres? Hybrids are NOT a viable solution either.

But then again being green is the ``it`` thing to do these days.Your article should be re-named to:

Bitching about ATV`s with a PC: Destroying the Climate and Environment for Self-Righteousness.

I live in ATV country, a lot of people i know have and ride ATV's. I hate them myself and i believe they fracture the sanctity that the remaining animals in the area depend on, especially when you get a band of ATVers going off trail tearing a track, dumping oil and exhaust through places where animals think they are safe, it just pushes them farther and farther back.

Now as for stopping this behavior i think requiring insurance on ATV's much the same as on snowmobiles will greatly reduce the atv population. Snowmobiling has taken a huge hit because the trail fees and insurance are very high, this would be a great way to curb atv activity. As well, as the country folk get more access to other things to do like satelite tv, high speed internet in the middle of nowhere you will see far less "mud derbies" and supped up mud trucks tearing holes through the wilderness.

Isn't it enough that humans cover as much land as we do , webs of roads everywhere cutting habitat corridors off etc, why do we also have to run loud smelly messy machines deep into the remaining spots left to "the wild"?

Recreational ATVs are horrid. I am an ER doc near Pismo Beach, CA, where thousands of campers and ATV riders flock every weekend, spewing fumes, tearing up the beach and dunes, and getting injured regularly, sometimes severely or fatally. We have people killed every year, a 4 year old was run over just last month, a 21 year old girl is now a permanent quadriplegic, plus hundreds of broken bones and lacerations per season. Many ATVers also put their small children on these motorized deathtraps and have them ride around in the midst of thousands of other high-speed motorists, some of whom are under the influence of alcohol and/or drugs.
What ever happened to human-powered recreation? It's much more rewarding when you hike or ride your bike to the top of a mountain, rather than being artificially propelled while wasting fossil fuel, polluting, and ripping up the landscape. Along similar lines, sometimes when we go surfing along the coast, jetskiiers will obliviously and obnoxiously choke us with their exhaust in their quest for speed and bigger air over the waves. The dolphins that often play in those waves are nowhere to be seen on these days, driven off by the noise, fumes, and oil slicks floating on the water. Human-powered recreation is healthier, less dangerous, and has much less environmental impact than the motorized equivalent. To make matters worse, the average person that uses these vehicles has little to no regard for the environment in the first place, driving jacked-up trucks and towing huge "toy-haulers" for hundreds of miles so that they can "camp" in RVs and use tons of pre-packaged food and disposable utensils (leaving a great deal behind on the beach). The same people that will argue that it has minimal impact and is safe, are the same people that think it is a good idea to drive a Hummer around town, or go to the grocery store in an Escalade.
And yes, I know that hikers, climbers, and mountain bikers effect the local environment as well, but as with everything else, there is a continuum of effect with responsible hikers and bikers being relatively low on the scale, and ATV and motorcycle riders causing much more impact.
If I was looking for a way to waste fuel, destroy wildlife habitat, get minimal actual exercise while exposing myself and my family to as dangerous a situation as possible, all under the pretense of "being outdoors", it sounds like the perfect family vacation.

One thing I never see mentioned in discussions like this is the access to the beautiful back country for people with physical limitations that motorized vehicles like motorcycles and ATV's provide. As someone in that condition since I was under 4 years old, I was fortunate to grow up in a family that rode dirt bikes because I was able to see parts of the world that I would otherwise never have seen. We were always responsible and stayed on roads and trails, didn't leave behind anything but some tracks (and I suppose some exhaust). Bikes with proper mufflers don't emit as much noise as a thunderstorm so they may not be that bad for the wildlife as some people would project. Unfortunately, as is always the case in life, the irresponsible people ruin it for the rest. But once again, to those of you totally opposed to motorized vehicles in the back country, did you ever consider what you might miss out on if you had certain physical limitations?

Before everybody condemns all atv riders.I have and use some of your "destructive" machines.They are tools like anything else.To be used in the right way or wrong way.It is a matter of responsibility and judgment.

I work with police in the area for search and rescue.The one big advantage in atv's is that they make noise.It is far easier for a lost person to here a loud atv.Rather than a silent horse rider.Many people lost are found by hearing a car/atv,or 4x4 and finding the rescue worker.

Before you condemn me also.I have atv's and 4x4's.I also have horses.Of the draft variety.They are ridden by my kids and used for my small logging business.They horses provide a low impact logging option.

I completely agree with Clint and the others who rightfully criticize use of ATVs.

I live in the countryside. My three hectares of land are up against a public land passage with a dirt road on it - this dirt road runs along about 300 meters of my north border . This public land passage is a 'via pecuaria' (I live in central Spain) which is meant for use by farm animals travelling from lowland grazing locations to highland grazing locations. But sheepherders rarely use these passageways anymore, so they are now used almost exclusively for recreation purposes. However, the laws still are in place which prohibit the use of motorized recreational vehicles on these dirt roads. Only motor vehicles allowed are those used by owners of adjutting properties to access them or work them. But they use them nevertheless; and the local public authorities play dumb, deaf, blind, and mute to this.

ATVs are loud. I can hear one coming from many kilometers away - and this within my AAC house. A type of construction material with relatively high levels of acoustic insulation. I live in a hilly forested area with a lot of nature - all kinds of birds, rabbits, hares, squirrels, chipmunks, etc. etc. I have literally seen wildlife take off running when ATVs are driving toward my finca. Luckily these ATVrs usually only come around on Sundays, so the fauna only has to put up with that insane noise for a few hours a week.

ATVs are polluting. These things consume a ridiculous amount of fossil fuel for the little practical benefit they achieve. Society needs to start drastically reducing CO2 emissions to avert ever worse climate change consequences. So the fact that there are people around who find it acceptable to continue wastefully and needlessly contributing to a problem that they have a moral responsibility to be trying to fix, and on top of that using as an asenine excuse that it is fun, is simply and utterly UNacceptable. I wonder if Hitler would have gotten away with killing Jews if he had simple made clear to everyone how fun it was for him? After all, most war crimes conventions didn't come into existence until AFTER WWII. The 'fun' argument hits all the wrong buttons in me, and I am sure that it does so in most other moral people too.

And as far as I can tell, a very large portion, probably a large majority, maybe the virtual totality, of ATVrs are extremely irresponsible. They think that because they are on some dirt road in the middle of nowhere with no speed limit signs posted every 50m that they can go as fast as they want. This is not a joke. I often look out my back window and see them speed by. I don't even have to look. I can hear how fast they zoom past my finca. These a***s think they have some right to speed on a dirt road they are not even legally allowed to be on! Not only do they endanger other LEGAL users of the road, such as mountain bikers, hikers, horse riders, etc., they basically drive away these legal alternative uses since these other individuals don't want to deal with the noise and danger posed by these a***s. Seven years ago, there were virtually no ATVs driving on this dirt road, but there were plenty of bikers, hikers, and horse riders. Now it is the reverse. I now avoid taking walks on Sundays. But I know this, one of these speeding a***s crashes into me, and I will send him to the hospital with his ATV up his rear.

They also have a tendency to take any dirt road that they come across, whether the road is public or private, legal or not. I have one neighbor who had to fence in his finca to keep them from driving through. I have another neighbor who put up a couple of posts at the entrance to his property with a chain connecting them so that they wouldn't drive into his finca. He told me that he took it down when one ATVr accidentally sped into it and was injured. I told him: 'Good. You should put it back up.'

And these ATVrs leave garbage all along the damn dirt road - plastic bags, aluminum cans, disposable silverware and plates, rags, and so on. And they literally tear up the dirt road. Rain tends to make deep crevices in this dirt road, so I sometimes have to fill some of them so that my Yaris doesn't have serious problems. But these ATVrs always manage to make the crevices worse than they already are.

These people don't give a damn about the environment. Using current ATVs for recreational purposes is INHERENTLY environmentally irresponsible. There is no valid comparison between irresponsible recreational ATVrs and irresponsible recreational mountain bikers or hikers. Just like there is no valid comparison between irresponsible racists and irresponsible non-racists. Racism is inherently wrong. Whereas hiking and biking are not inherently irresponsible. People can be irresponsible in every facet of life, in every decision of their lives. This is NO excuse for saying that since people are irresponsible by, say, farting uncontrollably in a small packed movie theater, it is therefore OK to trash the environment with an ATV.

As for controlling ATVs, ENFORCE existing laws! Toughen pre-existing laws. And tax the hell out of ATVs based on CO2 emissions and noise levels. And have forest rangers fine every ATV going faster than 20MPH!

Well, obviously this is treehuggers heaven. I race atvs and theres nothing you can do to stop them. Whats next, snowmobiles? Boats? Cars? You cant live without them to stop complaining about them. If theyre too loud, close the windows. If theyre too dusty, go inside. If theyre too anything, just shut up and hug a tree...

Joe,

I hope more ATVrs talk exactly the way you just have. The 'Just shut the f**k up and just take it up the rear!'

Joe,

I hope more ATVrs talk the same way you just have. The 'Just shut the f**k up and take it up the rear!' attitude will do more to convince society of the need to severely regulate ATVs than anything any environmentalist could ever say. Joe, I hope to hear you speak often and loudly on this issue wherever and whenever possible. Not just here at TH but at other blogs, in other forums, in public and private. With the same attitude and much the same words. And I thank you in advance for your efforts to express your opposition about environmentalist attitudes toward ATVs. And don't forget, make sure to do it with your inherent ATVr respect for others.

Sincerely,
Houston

Brand new book on the topic...
http://www.chelseagreen.com/2007/items/thrillcraft

like so many things it comes down to the the morons behind the wheel, not the wheel itself....

By all means lets ban idiots in ATVs but don't ban the ATV.

There are plenty of us who use off road vehicles responsibly. I drive a 1990 Diesel Land Rove, she runs on 40% reclaimed veg oil and when off road I don't think I've ever been above 30mph and rarely more than 15mph.

My self and the rest of the off road club I'm a amember of often run off road days with a local charity where we take on local disabled people as passengers and get them out in the country, to places they feasibly will never see otherwise, they can't walk there and their wheel chairs would have difficulty as would their cars.

Wow, there is a ridiculous amount of stupidity flowing through this blog. Most ATVs get about 50 mpg and they're not nearly as loud and disruptive to the environment as many of you think. I am very avid about preserving and monitoring the wildlife on my land and, since I have purchased an ATV, have seen little or no affect at all. And as for the comment about "going to the bathroom in the woods". Are you serious? Where exactly do you think the animals go? Where do you think our ancestors went? Anyways, how can any of you even compare the effect that ATVs have on the planet to cars, buses, airplanes, factories? You could eliminate all of the ATVs in the world and see ZERO change. They also do have many electric ATVs emerging just fyi. Although I am not exactly a "tree hugger" (considering my family owns a lumber company), I am all for managing and conserving our environment. No trees means no income for me. I just think many of you are not focusing on intelligent, feasible options.

Move to the moon you bunch of idiots. If atv's are wrecking the environment, then why is Ajax Ontario. the fourth largest polluter in north America. (metal recycler) Aren't blue boxes great???

i race motorcycles and i dont see the problem. i have rode all my life. where i race there may be a house a few miles down the road but they dont go psyco and call the cops to shut it down. you can deal with the noise for one day out of the year. but if you live near a motocross track and cant bare the sound of a dirt bike then MOVE! i dont understand how you people just stay around the track and bitch. and this isnt just a fad! for me its a way of life! someone menched a 21 old girl was hurt seriously, thats the risk you take, there are things to prevent a serious accident. theres a neck devise out called the leatt brace, it helps prevent spinal injuries. also it aint all about drinking beer, i train my ass off and ride almost every weeked to be the best i can be. if i train hard enough i could turn pro and make more money than you ever could! buts its not about the money, its all about when i watch little kids ride i see them having so much fun. and you want to take that from them? its like taking candy from a baby.this industry will never die! you guys must not hear how much rule changes we have had in the past years, there are changes to the db's our bikes put out. my bike is a healthy, LOUD, 102db's. yes i have a quit core insert but i choose not to run it. but when it comes race time i have to use it becuase of you guys! and our bikes dont dump oil, gas or anything liquid. if did we take it back to our house and fix it. if theres anthing else you would to talk to me about let me know!

Its really too bad to see some of the opinions against offroad recreation (ATVs and dirtbikes.) I enjoy riding offroad, but being respective to those on foot as well. A lot of the comments on the excess emissions and fuel consumption are extemely slanted, bias and inaccurate. It seems that this is micromanaging a far larger problem (industry) which is the highest percentage of polluters on the planet.

Do not froget that there is still a large community of people out here that do not believe that man can change the climate. ~ We even have proof!

Fossile records show that the earth has gone through many hot and cold cycles. Even to the point that they now know that it was warmer on average when the dino's roamed the earth than it is today.

And to imply that we are distroying habitat by riding on roads and trails is really foolish. Afterall, what happens when an SUV loaded with "TreeHuggers" laden with cameras and butterfly nets goes down the same road????

What gets me is when people who dont like dirt bikers go to one of the few places left that are designated for dirt bikes and cut down trees to prevent us from using our trails. I've seen dozens of trees cut across trails which forces riders to make new trails around the trees. I've also seen traps created on private land by neighbors who wanted to cause injury to the riders.
I have 9 miles of trail on our land and regularly see deer turkeys and other wildlife. These animals are not afraid of the bikes.
Responsible riders should not be penalized because non riders dont like sharing the forest with them.

Off Road vehicles are a silly thing to be angry at. There not gonna hurt the planet... Shoot, the Grand Canyon was caused by erosion, asteroids have hit, vocanoes, etc..
I think allot of the anti-ORV attitutes are fueled by basic human jealosy and envy. It's as old as man kind and can effect anybody.
Y'all see us having fun in a different way, and you get all pissy about it.
We're all trying to enjoy our lives as best we can so just live and let live!!

Just so you know I am going to be civil. I could go off but whats the point really. I wanted to question on a few things I read here. First off why all the hate towards the off road community? Is it just because of the noise? Is it Because of marks in the soil? If this is it I've hiked plenty of well worn deer, pig and cattle trails so why haven't you any of you tried to curtail damage from animals? Is it because you really believe that we are frightening and disturbing wild life. If so then how come when I ride or drive near deer, pigs or squirrels or birds they just watch me go on by and do whatever it is they do? I would like one of you who seems to be so in touch with nature to inform all the woodland creatures that they are supposed to be afraid of the highway,pavement and motor vehicles so that they quit jumping out in front of my car. Like the poor fox I plowed at 70 and the deer I almost clipped at dusk the other evening. Is it the distruction of habitat? If so how come none of you are out there stopping urban sprawl or distructive mining with any number of real environmental hazards? Probably because it's easier to pick on someone without million dollar lawyers and who knows you may have a stake in that new housing development. Do you hike off the main trails? Knew you did. Caught you, you little poachers. Just so you know we're all in the same boat, some of those groups you support would love to have you locked out of public lands as well as us.

I love the outdoors. I've camped hunted,fished ,hiked and rode horses and motorcycles just about my whole life. I share this world with alot of people who do things and think alot differently than I do. Maybe one of you good civil treehuggers can tell me why you never hear of an offroader boobytrapping a trail for foot traffic but some enviromentalist groups seem to like to try to kill or maim us for basically enjoying the same things they do but in a different way? I guess what I'm trying to ask as part of the offroad public how come when I can share the trails and the outdoors with you. You can't with me? It's crazy that I welcome all of you into my home but I'm not allowed in your's. Really disgusting behavior people of Earth.

Let me just say that I know that we're all not angels and we the offroad public need to educate that small percntage that ruins it for everybody and as environmentalist you should do the same with your ilk. Oh and to houston who drew the hitler comparison you are a lame excuse for a human being please quit choking down rage and stupidity and go out and get some air it'll work wonders for that black pit you call a soul.

Thanks for letting me post here. Joe

You could end all recreational ORV use tomorrow and it wouldn't make a difference towards climate change; ORV use is responsible for a tiny fraction of carbon emissions.

Similarly, ORV trails barely scratch the surface of the wilderness, and have only a tiny fraction of the impact of, say, agriculture.

Mind you, I don't own an ORV and never have; I've ridden one maybe 5 times in my life.

I think most of the anti-ORV sentiment is fundamentally classist and puritanical in nature. The real problem for the snobs here is that they don't like the sight of common folks (or anyone, really) having fun; The arguments about environmental damage are just a pretext.

tree huggers, yuppies, ect, are the most discusting people iv ever had to deal with! there snobby selfish and jealous, IF YOU DONT LIKE LIVING NEXT TO A MOTOCROSS TRACK, MOVE!!!!!!!

Might as well just start banning everything! What about banning those really loud woomba can mufflers on all of these riced out imports!? Can we ban those, they are destroying my pavement! I also think that when I am running along on a peaceful day and one of these "ricers" peels out and makes my dog jump he should be drawn and quartered. The dB level on that thing FAR surpasses my KTM 300 XCW, and it's barely as fast. My ranting is this, everywhere we turn someone is telling me to not do something I enjoy.

What happened to democracy? Well, I can tell you.... It is being used for us who do enjoy riding off road to keep our trails. Sanctioned, out of the way, never any hikers where I am either. However, my land is up for grabs to those who love trees! Wait, I am one of those guys too... I guess that when bad storms come through and we are cutting new trails through the woods to clean out old dead cars, and remove massive logs from Salmon feeding tributaries while in the mean time controlling erosion, isn't a decent enough gesture that I do a tremendous amount for the area I use.

Hold on, did that Neanderthal on his quad that was doing doughnuts near your car spook you!? He spooks me too! I really agree with alot of the things that those who do not get involved in the sport see, and I fight it! I can also say that those in our organizations fight it as well... But like all things, we get the bad rap! I ask this, the next time you are doing something you enjoy, stop and ask yourself if you are doing all you can to tread lightly and use caution because some day someone may take away your hiking, mountain biking, horse back riding or any other outdoor activity (I hope not because my dogs and I would be WAY out of shape). Stop the massive real estate development, put your energy into fighting our nations healthcare problems and let those of us who enjoy the outdoors in every way, be.....

I love it when I am pulling out of the riding area and I see Mountain Bikers give me a dirty look... Why!? Because I just smile and keep driving with dirt bike in tow thinking, "you ungrateful bastards, I just carved out that trail that you are going to go and ride!" You are welcome!

As a mt biker I have seen singletrack turned into a 4 foot wide mudpit after several passes by