Electric vehicles dangerous for the blind?

I think the solution is to reduce ambient noise pollution. Then the car will be easier to hear because other things won't be drowning it out.

The only way I can think of getting around adding noise, is to put radio beacons on every vehicle, and a blind walker would have to carry a receiver. It would beep faster as the car approaches, and then slower as it receded.

But this puts a burden on the blind that they shouldn't have to shoulder, even if it was built into cell phones or watches. Which is why I've said on both of the past entries linked above that noise will have to be added artifically - up to the point that road noise (tires and wind noise) is loud enough to hear.

I believe scientists are working on a visual sensory very similiar to the comic book daredevil where they would sense a car coming just like a bat would. Of course the temporary solution would be some sort of non-annoying beep.

Public safety comes first. Beyond that, hopefully we can find a pleasant way to announce a silent car's presence. No one wants noise pollution, but it's so subjective.

Of course, the lower the speed limit, the lower the volume we need to safely announce our presence.

I can see it now - downloading "car tones" like ring tones.

I remember seeing an article that said that the bulk of the road noise (from the outside at least) acutally came from the tires rolling. Did anyone else see this? I don't remember the source.

what about bikes? they can't here them.

Yes, bicycles are quiet too, as are pedestrians, pushcarts, roller skaters, baby buggies (perambulators for you Limeys), etc. Are we to ban them all to protect the occasional blind pedestrian? Or is it just a slow news day?

As I keep telling people, where-as cellphones have ring-tones, electric cars need drive-tones.

Most of the noise made by a car is from the tyres, not the engine..

But if it's really a problem with EVs, there's many easy engineering solutions. It's easier to make a car noisier than quieter!

Yes, already said, but worth saying again: what about bikes, skaters, people, Segways, magic carpets...

This is, of course, absurd. Better yet, I challenge any blind person at a busy intersection to be able to pick out the noise of an oncoming car from the noise of the cross traffic and everything else.

But, about the tires, the tires become the main source of noise above, I think, 45mph. Below that, the engine is the main source of noise.

Clip clop?

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/01/26/horse-sense-from-electric-car-designer-clip-clop-sounds-announc/

I think a gentle high frequency whistling sound (something like the wind whistling through wires or indeed something a little bit louder and variable than the sound an EV makes now) would be unobtrusive and sufficiently distinct from conventional traffic sounds. If I remember right it's easier to detect the direction of high frequency than low frequency sounds.

Damn...

http://snipurl.com/clipclop

The most effective solution I've seen for this is getting rid of cars and the city designed for cars. Bring back the city/town/village designed for pedestrians. Almost no one wants to here that solution though. We worship our cars, even alot of "green" people.

Like other readers have mentioned, quite a bit of noise does come from tires. So perhaps the solution would be to install really tiny bumps about 50 feet or so before a crosswalk. Kind of like what they do on some country roads in the US. As the car approaches it generates a funny noise that lets the driver know they are approaching a stop sign.

This seems like a much easier solution, because the lazy auto manufacturers don't have to do anything with their vehicles. The local cities put this solution into the pavement. This noise is generated from the tires so peds should be able to hear. But it won't be too loud as to annoy everyone nearby.

Then all you need to do to change the frequency of the sound is to change the size of the bumps and the distance between them.

But this doesn't completely solve the problem either, because blind people need to know when to cross as well as whether or not a car is coming.

I vote for the nice whirring sound that George Jetson's flying car made...

I like the idea of "car tones." Maybe electric cars could play music a la ice cream trucks? Seriously, I think Webs has a good idea. As you get closer to some toll booths, there's a lot of reflectors/bumps in the row that remind you to slow down, and consequently also make a lot of noise. If you put those maybe a hundred yards or more before intersections, you'd get people to both slow down and make noise for the blind.

I'm not sure how this is a burden on the blind. Perhaps the real solution is have the blind people make noise so the EV drivers can avoid them...

Tire noise is the first hint I know I can safely pull My car out of the driveway. I live right on a wicked downhill turn.

A better solution to a radio transmitter would be a ultrasonic beacon on the front of EV cars. That would send out a non-noise-polluting signal and with a simple reciever, the blind would be able to detect the oncoming vehicle.

But, yes, this puts a burden on the blind as they have to either have one of these gizmos or be in the presence of someone who detect the vehicle (sighted or not).

Well, I agree with Eric. I don't think the way to solve something like this is more engineering and more noise and more technology. You know, I don't own a car; I walk and ride a bike, and I've never had a problem around blind people. At least you can acknowledge the person with your voice from a bike or while walking. What are you gonna do in a car, honk or something?

How about getting rid of cars? How about redesigning cities? But once again, Eric is right, because nobody wants to hear that.

Hey, they could install "car-beepers" at the crosswalks in cities, with no burden on the blind. But, really a beeper signal and beeper-catcher is a good enough solution for this minority I'd think. Just make it free for the blind, and mandatory for the manufacturer. As things stand, I've seen blind people ask for an escort to cross the street, and crosswalk signals have to audio component to their signal (which they should).

With my Prius, it does happen that people expect an engine noise, and are surprised.

I've been planning on placing an outdoor speaker under the hood near the grill, a small amplifier, with a jack inside the car, to play from an MP3 player.

Theoretically, I could then play Crazy Frog Revvin' His Engine non-stop.

A blind person would be crazy to step in front of my Prius that's singing, VrrrrooooMmmmdingdingdubdubdubRRRRRRR.

You can't rely on making blind people "see" via radar just so the general public can still drive around in electric cars. And believe me, electric cars still aren't going to save the planet when you factor in manufacturing and materials used. It be neat if all urban dwellers just got to where they were going via public transportation, cycling or using their own legs.

In any case, the safest thing would be to add artificial noise to the car. A robotic whir on the wheels, a rattler, anything that would emulate a motor, though maybe not as loud. If not just for the blind, but for children, and the inattentive as well. These solutions shouldn't have to be so complicated.

i live in sf bay area and we have pedestrians getting killed all the time - i presume most of them were not blind. i suspect that most of them get killed because they don't hear our electric buses coming - they're so quiet, it's almost unbelievable.

not sure if any study has actually been done.

so, oddly enough, i think blind people might be less susceptible to electric bus attack than sighted people - just because blind people have more sensitive/nuanced hearing and would still be able to hear the tires of a relatively-quiet electric bus on the pavement.

Why not make the streets and cities more accessable for people with disabilities? Why not introduce a law that says that cars must stop for people that are a going over the zebra marks?

Or wait! Here is a crazy thought! Why not BAN cars from the cities!? Now that would make sense and be a good move towards a better environment.

OK this is directed not at the blind whom I believe may have difficulty hearing an electric car over the hustle and bustle of a normal city street, but to those who are being hit by electric buses/cars AND are fully sighted.

OPEN YOUR FREAKIN EYES!!!!!

Now, to the blind struggling to hear an electric car.
I quite like the idea of texturising the road coming up the crossings of all sorts.

It will have an effect on both peds and drivers not just the blind. It will tell drivers to slow down, the blind will know when someone has stopped because the sound will die out.

Very elegant solution that doesn't require something annoying being generated by the car constantly.

Just a little wind-driven whistle on the bumper would do. Like those things they have for deer, but designed for the human ear. A little loss in aerodynamics, so more a little more energy used per vehicle, and on the grand scale, more coal burned, so more people die from respiratory illnesses. We'll trade the asthmatics for the blind. Yes, really, we have to get beyond the car-centric cities. Viva la velorucion.

In Belgium (and I believe in many other countries), the pavement tiles near crossings are a special type (bubbles on them, and soft rubber ones).
Blind people can sense by the feel when they step onto such pavement tiles, that they are at a crossing point.
Have the silent cars make an artificial noise and no other aid on the pavement, and the blind people will hear them ecofriendly cars coming, but they still cannot see where the street crossing is.

These intelligent cheap pavement tiles are really the best solution.
But not only this offcourse: traffic regulations need to be adapted for the blind people too.
Whem traffic lights are red for a pedestrian wanting to cross the street, a clicking noise comes from the traffic light. When the light is green for the pedestrians wanting to cross the street, this clicking noise gets a bit louder and the ferquenct triples.

So: blind people feel the crossing locations by the pavement tiles structures, and hear the green light by the clicking noise.

Surely not all crossings have traffic lights, but a simple proximity detection (IR, coils under streets,...) could generate a similar noise signal telling the blind people wether or not cars are approaching.

And make people more aware that not everybody is driving a car, but also pedestrians still exist.
That will make it safer for every person travelling by foot, for every blind pedestrian, but also for our childrens on the streets, on their way to school etc.

Having all cars producing an artificial noise is ridiculous. The only reason I see why it would ever be implemented is because governments do not want to invest in good infrastructure and move the responsibility to car manufacturers.

what is a bigger problem? blind people getting pummeled by cars, or the sorry environmental state of the world? i can't even believe this is an issue.

I couldn't agree more with Thierry. You can't add modifications to cars. Look how hard it is to get US automakers to change their standards, just damn near impossible. If you want to solve the problem, the solution needs to be separate from the idea of getting the automakers to change.

And yes Thierry, here in the US we also have soft rubber bumps right before crosswalks for peds. It's a great idea.

Blind individuals usually carry a white can with a red tip. That is same as a stop sign for a vehicle. It is the responsibility of the sighted driver to watch for the blind pedestrian...not the other way around. However, most drivers are in such a rush they don't pay attention so...

Technology created this problem (arguments about bikes withstanding) and technology can solve it, indeed I think it MUST solve it.

Think about how much effort and money goes into making cars safer for their drivers yet how little goes into making them safer for other road users which includes pedestrians, cyclists and othes.

The obvious solution is that every car has a RF transmitter that transmits its location at short range along with speed, direction and vehicle type, similar to the "squawk" devces planes have. Any blind person could wear a receiver to pick up such signals and know when moving objects are close by. Using a vehicle (including bikes) on the road without one should be illegal - as is operating a car without a seat belt, horn, lights etc. Other people's safety should be made as important as vehicle operators - its the ethical thing to do.

It wouldn't even have to be expensive given that a bluetooth or zigbee transmitter costs just a few bucks and has a range of hundreds of feet.

This is such a ridiculous concern.

1. The burden should be on the car manufacturer--same as providing seat belts and air bags as safety standards.

2. There should be warnings for BOTH the driver and pedestrian (visually impaired or not).

3. Sensors have been developed to alert drivers to whether there are small children that they cannot see behind their vehicle when backing up. Similar sensors should make noise when a pedestrian is within vicinity -- different noises can mean different distances for the driver to parse.

4. The pedestrian tiles can also make noise (as another commenter noted) either when a car approaches, or when it is appropriate to cross the street.

Cars present a real and unavoidable danger no matter what precautions are taken. Cars are fast and drivers are all unique in their application of safety and speed. But the threat to the environment is a threat to us all and should take precedence over the needs of any specific group of people.

"what about bikes? they can't here them. [sic]"
I think this problem was actually solved many decades ago, when the first 8-year-old boy decided to put a baseball card in the spokes to make it sound more like a car. Not every problem needs a slick technological solution, especially since those usually run on batteries.

Hmmm...

Do any of the people who have commented on this apparent problem actually drive an EV?

It doesn't seem that way to me...

Well, I do.

I have a Chevy S10 pickup converted to 100% electric operation, whcih I use to commute in daily.

I can say for certain in the last six months I have owned this vehicle that never, not ONCE, has somebody stepped into my path as I was driving slowly, simply because this is an EV and they could not hear it coming at low speed.

Parking lots, shopping centers, malls, residential streets, crosswalks, stop signs...it has never happened!

This is not to say it cannot happen, and not to say the EVs are not quieter than gas engined vehicles (they are)...but I think there is an issue being made here that is just not an issue.

In 25 years of driving all over this planet, I have had many sighted people step into my path because they simply did not bother to look. Does this mean I should drive a noisier car to get their attention, too? Please! My car has a horn I can use for those dummies just as easily as I can use it for blind folk, in either case if they are not paying enough attention.

Blind people have many ways of adapting to our environment; hearing is just one of them.

Every person (blind or not) has to look after their own survival and avoid stepping into the path of oncoming cars, and every driver has to pay attention to what is in front of them...and we all find ways to make sure this happens.

Making EVs noiser does not make any sense at all.

My two cents...

Doug