Of course, this might work better if Ford made, I don't know, a hybrid CAR. What's with the 20% Less Guilty SUVs? The Focus was a big hit when it was introduced in 2000. Ford missed the boat on getting a hybrid version out, and now all the attention goes to the Prius. Maybe there is something I'm missing, but wouldn't it be easier to power a plug-in car than a heavier SUV, even though it's small as far as they go?

Some people require suv and 4x4.We live in rural areas.Roads become sloppy,nasty,shitty messes.My area is loaded with these.When 4 x 4 get bashed.I get mad.Just because yuppies go and buy them.Most yuppies never engage the 4 x 4.Those who use four wheel drive on a frequent basis are offended by those morons.

What i would like to see in the united states.Is that diesel-hydraulic hybrid 4 x 4 based on the truck chassis.With the diesel engine providing significant torque.While hydraulic force also pushes.The last i heard they are only in Europe and outside of the united states.

Some people require suv and 4x4.

Less than 5% of light truck use is actually necessary, and that's with a generous definition of "necessary" - meaning, actually doing work that requires large hauling capacity and/or four-wheel drive. It doesn't question whether that hauling or off-roading is necessary in the first place.

I didn't mean Why 4X4s In General?, but Why 4X4 Hybrids Before Car Hybrids?, which I assume are easier to power because they are lighter and only need to power two wheels. I seems like Ford doesn't want their hybrids to compete.

I know some folks who own and use and need their 4X4s, but I think that's separate from Ford's insistence on not making a hybrid car:)

I didn't mean Why 4X4s In General?, but Why 4X4 Hybrids Before Car Hybrids?, which I assume are easier to power because they are lighter and only need to power two wheels. I seems like Ford doesn't want their hybrids to compete.

I know some folks who own and use and need their 4X4s, but I think that's separate from Ford's insistence on not making a hybrid car:)

To the first anonymous.When you say off-roading is not necessary.I would suggest you go to hell.

I know many rural people who use their 4wd.In fact on a daily basis.They work with search and rescue / police.Did you ever wonder how police get into those isolated crappy roads?Or into some of the most desolate areas?It is not by helicopter most of the time.They are expensive.They have the numbers of many off road clubs.

Saying 4wd owners are not green is false.Look into the moab.Specifically how they hauled out trash from teenage punks and morons.Or how they hauled out.A lot of lumber left behind someone else.Whether it was for a shed or whatever else.Or how in Michigan they clean up illegal dump sites in the middle of bfe nowhere.I can site lots of possible instances.

What you define as necessary may be different than me.I find it necessary not to get stuck in my 8 mile long driveway.I also suggest you read carefully at the last section of my comment.In regards to the diesel-hydraulic hybrid.

What needs to happen is for the off road groups.A hybrid drive train.Where you can unbolt your engine and transmission.Leavening in the transfer case.Get something that will bolt in.It would retrofit many.Versus the few new vehicles.That break to easily.

I don't think he ever said all off-roading is unnecessary, just that most of it is. John Smith living in suburbia doesn't need an SUV to drive to work on an interstate, nor do his kids need to be driven to school in one.

To the first anonymous.When you say off-roading is not necessary.I would suggest you go to hell.

Since I didn't say that, you can now offer an apology for being hostile for no reason.

I know many rural people who use their 4wd.In fact on a daily basis.

So what? That's a non-sequitur.

They work with search and rescue / police.Did you ever wonder how police get into those isolated crappy roads?Or into some of the most desolate areas?

Why would I wonder that? I've spent plenty of time in the mountains, desolate places, and so forth. Very, very few places require that one has 4wd capability.

Saying 4wd owners are not green is false.

Toting around extra weight and transmission resistance for a capability rarely needed is wasteful. That's just a fact.

What you define as necessary may be different than me.

Not really. That 5% figure I quoted is from actual national use data for trucks and SUVs. All you have to do is look at the percentage of miles driven that require very high towing capacity and/or four-wheel drive capability. The data include off-road use, so it's all factored in.

I find it necessary not to get stuck in my 8 mile long driveway.

I see, and you *need* and 8 mile driveway? Funny how billions of people don't starve without 8 mile driveways.

I specifically addressed that earlier.I live 50-55 miles away from anything that resemble town.The people that live in town and city.May only engage their 4wd twice in their life.I do so daily-weekly.Driving where i do.That is off road.Roads are crappy.Off road suspension seats help.

I agree that those living in the burbs-city do not need massive 4 x4's.But where i am it is a must.

Isn't TH supposed to foster constructive criticism? What's with publishing comments from someone telling someone else to go to hell?

Just saying.

To the above commenter's.

Brian is back in Iraq.Dealing with our problems.I am his brother.I now am caretaker of his property.

There are 4 primary property's in the area.My brothers,Two different farmers,and a family friend.

Brian's driveway is 8 miles long.It used to be 2 miles long.The county no longer wished the expense of maintaining it.So now it belongs to the 4 land owners.

I will not say i am sorry for my brother.He never will either.From his point of view.You need to understand the difference between City-Suburb-Rural-and BFE nowhere.

Here is a short list of vehicles in the area.

A old five ton military truck( 6 wheel drive )
Ford excursion diesel 4 x 4
1987 jeep wrangler
1979 ford bronco
1991 jeep wrangler
1977 ford bronco
one h1 hummer
one h2 hummer

All these vehicles are built to withstand severe abuse.My brother welds and builds custom vehicles.To withstand severe punishment.When you speak of 4 wheel drive.He may know more than most people think.He built Baja racing trucks.In fact he has one in his barn.800 horsepower and two wheel drive.

As to how green he and the neighbors are.My brother and the neighbors are all off grid.And self sufficient with exception of fuel needs.They have vehicles with specific needs.

I don't think being off the grid counts as being green if it's not a choice, man. It's cool, though -- more power to them.

Of course, those of us who NEED 4x4s could always just move to where we don't need them, no? At least, some of us?

I hope your brother is safe in Iraq. My heart goes out to him.

Ron

Explosives ordinance disposal is not exactly safe.He also works with a spec ops team on occasion.

Now for his home.The property in question is family property.He doesn't exactly like neighbors.His home is far away from people for a reason.He tends to avoid interaction with most people.For him to live closer to " civilization " would not be a good idea.

Someone decided to start a fight.He ended it quickly.He broke the idiots collar bone and arm.A total of 4 breaks.The moron pulled a gun on him.No charges were pressed.

Now for being green.It is as close as possible.I don't even like " civilization " that much.Do you know how many times my kids have been offered drugs in school?

The land owners all 4 have been offered massive amounts of money.For their chunks of land.He turned down 20 thousand an acre.So did the others.If that is not a green decision.I do not know what is?Just because your version of green and his differ.Does not make his/yours right or wrong.They are different approaches to the same target.

I moved out here to take care of my brothers property.And to get away from your civilization.Out here my kids can walk outside without fear of being shot.

Also the power company wishes to take advantage of us.We are now good enough to bring power in to.But not before.Now they wont charge to connect.The land owners are considering it.

Do not bash 4 x 4 and their owners.Without all the facts.You and he may not agree on how.But would you rather see them sell their land?The developer was known to be a big time condo builder.That is all we need.more sprawl.

If you do not like what they drive.Build a severe duty 4 x 4.That can tow-haul and take a beating.Check out some of his other posts.You may see it differently.

Brian popped onto this thread 5 days ago, shipped off to Iraq, then told his brother Jack to fill in for him in the comments thread? And somehow both Brian and Jack speak exactly the same and format their comments exactly the same way? All while making outrageous comments full of tall tales of violence and so forth?

T R O L L

I said SOME people can and should move. Any guy who did time in Iraq has sure as hell earned his peace and quiet, and I would certainly not suggest otherwise.

But there are a lot of people who say they love "nature" and want to live there and destroy it in the process. They'd probably buy the condos you're talking about:) I know people like that, and living where they do is a choice they could reverse. Family property is certainly another story altogether, especially for a guy who put his ass on the line for his country.

I think "civilization" is more than crime, though. If your kids were offered drugs at school and declined, that's just good parenting on your part:) I'd feel good to know that they said "No!" like that. But it can and does happen in rural areas, too. Been there:)

Civilization has given us some great things, like the ability to have this discussion across who-knows-how-many miles. :^)

" Brian popped onto this thread 5 days ago, shipped off to Iraq, then told his brother Jack to fill in for him in the comments thread? And somehow both Brian and Jack speak exactly the same and format their comments exactly the same way? All while making outrageous comments full of tall tales of violence and so forth? "

We are brother you moron.If we speak or comment in the similar way.It may because we have a similar background.

To anonymous I forget to add some things.

Dad had finished his 20 years.A straight military retirement.So are teachers were mom and dad.Gym was taught by dad.As was shop.From him we learned to weld,fix cars,and self defense.I believe he was qualified.He had two black belts.

We earned our first cars.Dad would buy a junker.We would do all the body work.And mechanical work.We learned how to install clutches,transmissions,and engines.

Mom taught math,English,and literature.So if we speak/comment similarly.Maybe it is due upbringing.Or people of significance.In our lives.

So if you think we are the same or similar.I take that as a compliment.Now i am not exactly sure where my brother is.If he had access to a computer.He may have pooped in and posted a comment.

Lastly he did not ask me to post on his behalf.He left his laptop at home.I found the site interesting and continued.The items of interest were bookmarked in firefox.

Now for the quote violence.The fight remark i posted.It was self defense.Even the cops,district attorney and judge said so.Violence would have been killing him.

The is a difference between self defense and violence.Law enforcement knows that.I do not think you are a law enforcement officer.

In the end.I am glad of the way that my parents raised me and my brother.They took time to know us.Instead of both heading back to work 40 plus hours a week.Then we would have only seen them at dinner.We were never given things like cars and privileges.We earned them.Which i cannot say most people.Most important they taught maturity at an earlier age.

You have the right to your opinion but i also have the right to mine.

What the hell is this, the Brian and Jack biography network? LOL

You do both call people names and get nasty with people in the same way, which does not go a long way to get your point across.

No one challenged your right to your opinions. You're the only ones getting nasty on here.

Looks like I'm joining the party late, but here it goes...
Who said the Ford Escapes plug-ins were going to be 4x4s? True they make the current hybrids in both two wheel drive (front wheel drive) and All wheel drive (AWD), but they are available in two wheel drive for those that need the capacity or ground clearance without the extra friction of all wheel drive.

People see a truck or SUV and somehow automatically assume they are 4x4 or call them that interchangably. As a matter of fact, most of the large SUVs come in both 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive versions and the 2 wheel drive versions usually get better mileage, are much cheaper, and have fewer parts to break.

Just thought I'd differentiate.

They will both kill you in an accident though and people buy them for the same reasons.

I don't see what all of the complaining about a hybrid SUV is. If we want to decrease our use of fossil fuels, why don't we try to increase the efficiency of vehicles that people want to buy. Not everyone is going to buy a Prius. Plus, the escape hybrid gets better combined fuel economy than the 2008 Honda Civic (26 city/34 highway). I don't hear anyone knocking the Civic.

Also, Johnny, I don't know where you got the 20% figure, but the below numbers are more accurate.

Ford Escape 2.3L FWD: 20 city/26 hwy
Ford Escape 3.0L FWD:18 city/24 hwy
Ford Escape Hybrid FWD: 34 mpg city/30 mpg highway

70% increase city, 15% increase hwy over 2.3L.
89% increase city, 25% increase hwy over 3.0L.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but sometimes an SUV or a truck is necessary. Most people where I grew up used them relatively frequently, for legitimate purposes. But I agree that there is no need for most city dwellers to use them.

Jack, best wishes to Brian. I am an active duty Marine and know what it is like to be deployed and away from your family

I don't see what all of the complaining about a hybrid SUV is. If we want to decrease our use of fossil fuels, why don't we try to increase the efficiency of vehicles that people want to buy. Not everyone is going to buy a Prius. Plus, the escape hybrid gets better combined fuel economy than the 2008 Honda Civic (26 city/34 highway). I don't hear anyone knocking the Civic.

Also, Johnny, I don't know where you got the 20% figure, but the below numbers are more accurate.

Ford Escape 2.3L FWD: 20 city/26 hwy
Ford Escape 3.0L FWD:18 city/24 hwy
Ford Escape Hybrid FWD: 34 mpg city/30 mpg highway

70% increase city, 15% increase hwy over 2.3L.
89% increase city, 25% increase hwy over 3.0L.

I'm sorry to tell you this, but sometimes an SUV or a truck is necessary. Most people where I grew up used them relatively frequently, for legitimate purposes. But I agree that there is no need for most city dwellers to use them.

Jack, best wishes to Brian. I am an active duty Marine and know what it is like to be deployed and away from your family