Lightning Lithium Superbike: No Emissions

Exactly where do you buy these?

I'd be a little worried about driving a bike that cruises along silently with electric engines.

They may need to add artificial engine noise!

In the words of a man whose greatness is severely understated,
"I have GOT to get me one of these!"

What a horrible thing to do to a perfectly good motorcycle!

I'd woulldn't mind zipping around on one of these. a 160km range is plenty for most weekend cruising, and 0-100km/h in 3 seconds is insane......

While I can see Brian is a proponent of the mantra "Loud pipes save lives", this thing seems like it's manouverable enough to keep you out of bad situations in the first place. Then again, the motorcycle in my garage is a Honda Z50, quiet, and I have't had any problems so far. People seem to sit up and take notice of a 180cm tall dude on a road registered 50 cc bike.

Digg frontpage people!

as the article says..... this specific bike is a prototype, but they do sell electric motorcycles. http://www.electricmotorsport.com/

Excellent!! When you reach 150 miles on a charge it will
make for a better commuting vehicle.

However, how long to charge when "empty"?

Although it's heartening to see such innovation, we have to remember that lithium itself is drawn from open pit mines from North Carolina, Zimbabwe and Canada. This mining process is very destructive. Perhaps we should shift focus to supercapacitors instead. No destructive materials, higher energy capability than batteries and and an efficiency of around 95%.

Good effort so far; but still seems like a lot of things might need to be done; how long did you say it take to charge one of these ?

This is just too much! Proof once again that chain driven is better than belt driven.

http://www.templatestaff.com

I'll buy one too

Will Smith ?

Lithium powered batteries needs a lot of safety precautions which is the main reason that toyota is delaying its li-ion powered automobiles.

Jenny
http://www.spaml.com

i don't know guys... it looks pretty dangerous

i mean the chains are completely exposed on the sides.

=/

What a ridiculous idea. Hasn't anyone told any of you that the amount of fuel burned at the power station to charge the batteries is more than the petrol the original bike used? .

Sportbikes always have exposed chains. Much safer than the stupid exposed belts that you see on all the HD clones. If you're dragging your feet/nose/eyebrow down on the underside of that sprocket (thats where the pinch point would be) you're already in trouble and the chain is a secondary worry.

I'm more concerned that it weighs too much. Thats a solid brick of batteries. 100 miles is barely an short afternoon ride.

While I like the idea, this particular bike is a pile. Motorcycles are already poorly aerodynamic and they made this worse by piling a bunch of bricks in it with literally NO airflow around them but have a ram from the fairing shoving air directly at it. There really needs to be something done about the big yellow bricks.... really. Maybe some plastic covers that will help airflow.

Look at the sprockets, I can only imagine how fast that motor has to be turning to be run 100mph. It would probably be a good idea to put a smaller sprocket on the back. Not only could it go faster but it would also get more milage to the charge. Plus, I'm sure there's a balance issue with a sprocket that friggin big.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad someone's doing it, but.... wow, that's not the right way.

seems alot of people want to critique your innovative approach yes It has some minor issues for improvement but still a great effort.. listen up all If you sit and critique these guys and have nothing proven better than shut the hell up...nice job guys

The major problem with any plug in rechargable electric vehicle is: how is the charging electricity generated? In this country, coal is used to generate the majority of energy in our grid. Given the charging inefficiencies of all chemical batteries, three to four times as much energy is wasted as is delivered to the electric motor. Multiply that by the low efficiency of power plants (~30%) and you will see that the rechargable vehicle is no solution for a dying planet.

Li-ion is a pretty bad choice for a motorcycle battery given that the innards will explode when exposed to water, which will happen in a crash or any case leak. It is also super energy intensive to make the batteries in the first place. Plus there is the recycling problem after the relatively short half life of Li-ion batteries.

(I shot some video in a Medtronic LI-ion battery lab. They used to recycle the scraps of pure Li until the transportation costs of the hazardous explosive got too expensive. To trash Li, they just threw it away cheaply. . .Something is very backwards about this game)

So unless you are making and charging the batteries exclusively on solar or wind power, the carbon footprint of this bike is much greater than a petroleum powered model. Nothing green about this bike.

What a surprise. I say something that's unfortunately true but doesn't agree with your messed up idea of whats 'green' and it doesn't get posted...

Wow-you posted something negative about an electric vehicle-thanks. I guess you guys are a bit more enlightened than our government...

"yes It has some minor issues for improvement but still a great effort.. listen up all If you sit and critique these guys and have nothing proven better than shut the hell up...nice job guys"

Marty, since when does "it's likely to explode when crashed in the wet" and a far bigger environmental footprint than the original vehicle count as 'minor issues for improvement'?!

We need to start some SERIOUS thinking about alternatives to fossil fuel. If it's being burned further down the energy 'food chain' than it is in a car then at the moment it's more destructive than driving a car. Let's not forget that Hitler was 'having a go' at 'getting it right'. Getting this as badly wrong as politicians are doing is going to have a far bigger impact than Hitler. Actions don't count. Results DO.

WANT! GIVE TO ME! WAAAAAAAANT!!!!!

quote...
i don't know guys... it looks pretty dangerous

i mean the chains are completely exposed on the sides.

=/
end quote...

WHAT ARE YOU A MAN OR A ***** MOUSE?....
DANGEROUS MY ASS!
BRING BACK THE MOTOR AND LETS SAVE THE WORLD ONE WHEELY AT A TIME

This is just one major step in a very large effort. The further we push the fossil fuel source down the food chain the easier it is to replace with something clean. What real good would wind or solar energy if our main mode of transport was still fossil fuel based? If we can convert more and more vehicles, homes, public transport etc, to electric we can fuel that need by eco friendly means. Even though its not being done so now. This is an earth healing effort and to heal we need to clean it up from the bottom up. So bravo and it will be great to see what tech advanced come to make this bike and other vehicles even greener. And as the photovoltaic cells catch up and the wind and water power increase this will pay off.

Brilliant bike, if charged at home from medium vertical windmills it would be sorta greenish, the problem will always be the cost to build something from natural materials will allways outways the benefits, ie at how many new cars a being produced every year promoted as more fuel efficent vehicles. These are supposed to be easier on the enviroment but the cost to make the new car far outweighs the cost of sustaining an older car even with its inefficent fuel systems. They could also make cars from aluminium/ fibreglass so cars wouldn't rust and last longer, thing is companies want to make money not out of you and not build something that lasts...thats why kill hittler. Remember the folks wagon... built by the people,for the people... great car for its time. socialism vs capitalism.... work together Vs use eachother.

"What a ridiculous idea. Hasn't anyone told any of you that the amount of fuel burned at the power station to charge the batteries is more than the petrol the original bike used? ."

Quite the opposite. Even using the dirtiest electricity generation, coal, it is still better than gas because of power plant efficiency. And even if it weren't:
more electricity is used in refining one gallon of gas than an ev would need to drive the same distance as that gallon of gas would get you.

The electricity is being used anyway.

"yes It has some minor issues for improvement but still a great effort.. listen up all If you sit and critique these guys and have nothing proven better than shut the hell up...nice job guys"

While I agree that they have done a great job, it is a prototype, meaning the production vehicle will be different.
Although it is very likely that the guys know what needs to be improved, outside imput should be considered so critique should be encouraged.

It would be nice if it were more polite, informed and constructive.

"The major problem with any plug in rechargable electric vehicle is: how is the charging electricity generated? In this country, coal is used to generate the majority of energy in our grid. Given the charging inefficiencies of all chemical batteries, three to four times as much energy is wasted as is delivered to the electric motor. Multiply that by the low efficiency of power plants (~30%) and you will see that the rechargable vehicle is no solution for a dying planet."

Bullshit. The charging efficiency of a li-ion battery is >95%, not 25 - 33% as you claim. There are losses elsewhere, but even when these are taken into account the efficiency is still far greater than you claim. Getting power from the plant to your house is 90 - 95% efficient, the charger is 85 - 90% efficient, getting the power into the battery is >95% efficient, getting the power out is >95% efficient and the motor is 85 - 90% efficient. This works out to a total of 59 - 77% efficiency, much higher than what you claim, and much higher than any internal combustion engine.

The pollution from coal power plants is a big problem, but this doesn't mean that electric vehicles are fundamentally flawed, all it means is that we need to clean up our power. Given that the majority of pollution (2/3rds) is generated by coal power plants, not petroleum vehicles (1/3rd), it makes far more sense to clean up our power first before worrying about cleaner cars. Environmentally it would be far better if America went 100% wind/solar/nuclear for power generation and everyone drove around in Humvess than if everyone got hybrid/hydrogen/electric cars. But for some reason people are far more concerned about driving cleaner cars than cleaner power. Once (if?) America goes to 100% clean sources for its power electric vehicles will be by far the cleanest type of vehicle.

Is this thing safe to crash?
I mean what happens if the battery cells cracked; will they explode?!..

Charging from coal fired electric stations are polluting to environments? Load distribution from late at night until early morning are way under utilized where people have gone to sleep. Its a good way to charge batteries overnight instead of daytime.

Remember nuclear, coal fired, or renewables electric stations are not in position to power down their output at night. It's time consuming and expensive to power up to meet daily demand.

Get on, sit down, shut up, accelerate like hell!
This is one bad arse bike!

I just need some things clarified with some of the comments posted before. It was said by Marty Maschino and others that with chemical battery inefficiencies and the delivery of the energy to the motor up to three to four times the energy is lost. Can any of the posters above prove or explain this?

The charging efficiency of a Li ion battery is quoted to be 99.9%. If you look up on wikipedia it's mentioned there. Also on wikipedia about 90% of the energy is transferred to a motor. So the amount of energy that is put in during charging about 10-11% is lost during vehicle operation. Pretty efficient by my calculations.

Now the efficiency of a gas engine is ideally about 30%. Gas engines are heavier for several reasons and to maximize efficiency you have the gear boxes and so on which adds more weight. This in turn makes the system more inefficient because more energy is expended to just carry the vehicle by itself. Electric vehicles are often lighter thereby requiring less energy to move forward. They are also have less inertia so I am guessing that it makes them more maneuverable.

So even if a power station is about 30% efficient less than 4% of the energy supplied at the power station is lost. Pretty darn good if you ask me.

You also have to take into account that a power station is always on. Energy is always being generated. So using an electric vehicle is is using energy that would have otherwise been lost compared to a gas vehicle.

So if anyone can explain how a lighter vehicle needs more energy than a gas powered one by explaining the above arguments it would be helpful. Calculations and citing of sources would also be helpful.

I can provide my sources and calculations for anyone that needs it.

Later

Dave, the only thing that you leave out is that gas contains so much energy. Despite the engine being inefficient, the amount of power in any amount of gasoline is why they have become a prevalent source of power for so many years. Even the best batteries are not capable of storing the kind of power that gasoline inherently has.

Mind you, I am very much in favor of not using gasoline at all, I am just explaining why the gasoline vehicle seems to have more energy potential... because it does. They are very inefficient with that power, but still powerful.

Dave, you condemn yourself in your own words.

Gas engine efficiency 30%

Your calculations for electric vehicle-26%

Plus the added environmental impact of producing and,renewing and recycling that many li-on batteries.
Gas engines can be recycled as scrap once they die-and many parts can be recycled simply by re-using them.

Why is it that some knucklehead always comes along and claims that electric vehicles use energy from dirty power plants so therefore, they are teh stupid?

Hmmm, I wonder why?

Holy crap! The rear sprocket could double as a hubcap!

The above discussion about fuel usage of powerplants vs the fuel usage of motorbikes mainly shows that such comprisons are a little too delicate to carry out at the back of an envelope. For a usefull comparison you need a complete life cycle analysis (LCA).

"Why is it that some knucklehead always comes along and claims that electric vehicles use energy from dirty power plants so therefore, they are the stupid?

Hmmm, I wonder why?"

Because ignorance is a widespread condition for consumers who believe what multinationals want them to.

Humans make the most profitable animals to farm and many who air their feeble minded views are no better off than a dumb herd crying "baaahh". For these farmed-humans ignorance is their only sense of freedom and yet its their illusion.

Research has proven that 86 per cent of the US could run an ev and create no increase in CO2 by charging their EVs off peak.

Its simple oil means better profit and in turn better for the economy of multinationals not the everyday farmable Hsapien.

Coal fired power plants average around 45% efficiency. Combined cycle natural gas plants average 55% efficiency. Average efficiency of the US power grid is greater than 90%. Average efficiency for li-ion batteries is 90 %. battery charge/discharge efficiency is 93%. Efficiency of AC induction motor/controller varies between 80-90% a single stage chain drive is over 98% efficient.

Gasoline production and transportation is approximately 83% efficient. The average car engine is around 25% efficient. Because motorcycle engines are optimized for weight and throttle response characteristics as opposed to efficiency, they are only about 20% efficient. A manual transmission is about 95% efficient.

multiply all of this out and you get about 31% energy efficiency for an electric motorcycle compared to 16% efficiency for an IC motorcycle. Taking regenerative braking into consideration would tilt the balance toward the electric bike even more. The amount of CO2, CO, NOx, SO2, and particulates coming out of a coal fired plants smokestacks are all lower on a per unit of energy delivered basis than ANY gasoline powered motorcycle built today.

References for generation and transmission numbers were drawn from the following books
Kents power plant engineering
Marks mechanical engineers handbook
Skroski & Vopat Steam Turbines
Woodruff & Lammers Steam Plant Operation
And compiled by myself, A licensed power plant engineer (Actual license is 1CE)
Motor and battery efficiencies were drawn from sites all over the web.

Cool! I'm always happy to see people working on a new angle for motorcycling. I know it's a prototype, but, as an avid biker, for me, 100 miles won't cut it if recharge is more than a few minutes. For now I'll put this in the catagory of the Segway; interesting, maybe fun, but useless. Keep it up, though. It's a nice start. I just hope it doesn't explode like a laptop battery ;)

Well said, evader. I am tired of the completely unfounded FUD regarding electric vehicles. Also, while you analyzed energy efficiency, the pollution savings are even more dramatic.

In addition, if electric vehicles largely replace internal-combustion vehicles, the leftover gasoline can instead be used in power plants, replacing coal. And electric vehicles charged from gasoline power plants are both more efficient and *significantly* cleaner than gasoline cars.

It is *inevitable* that electric vehicles will become common. Power plants will improve so coal becomes deprecated and clean energy is used wherever possible, and there's nothing wrong with the electric vehicle itself.

The only valid complaint I've seen here regarding batteries is that some chemistries can become dangerous if ruptured. However, it is not difficult to design them to be almost impossible to rupture. Use many small cells each with a rigid case and mount them together on a flexible mesh. Any impact will deform the mesh rather than rupture the case. But that's not important for a prototype. And keep in mind batteries contain no moving or loose parts so mere force (like sudden deceleration) would never hurt it.

I would buy one for communting to work. Out of the 6 months of biking weather here, I would save $1200 a year in fuel at the current prices.

To be blunt i like the idea.But i also see a problem.When i leave for the weekend.I put on in excess of 500 miles.If not more.What is recharge rate?

that is the most awsome thing i have ever seen! why dont they do these on big scale production! i'd buy one...

I actually tried to find contact info for these guys online, but I came up with nothing. If anyone at Treehugger has their info, could you pass this comment along?

I love the idea and since I go solar this month, an electric bike would be even better. One concern though - the lack of noise. Most auto drivers are alerted to the presence of a cycle by their sound. Would it be possible to include a speaker that emits "cycle noise" with the sounds emitted linked to the RPM? Even better, one that you could adjust the volume on so if you’re out in the desert with no one else around, you could shut it off.

Keep Innovating!!

hey tree hugers here is a litium batery that clames is not a biohazard. will not explode 2x the energy 1/2 the weight of the old lead acid.

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Supercaps do look attractive, and I believe the sproket ratio is to decrease the current through the motor. I believe you get most torque at 0 rpm on an electric motor, and also the most current (and rezistivity) ... and thus it may heat too much, and drain the batteries too quick. Releaving this is a good idea.

I don't think it is any less aerodynamic then the original.

If you want to go green, give up the BS propaganda for petrol burning... you don't have to charge on the grid: get a solar pannel on your roof and charge on that. Free power shall we say? Free transportation... as maintenance would be minimal (grease the bearings, and change the tires)

I want to buy one...

It's awsome! get it into production asap, cover the battery packs for aerodynamics, get someone to back you - some environmentallly friendly multi-millionaire, so the bike can hit the stores at the Right Price - and these will sell !! even the present distance before recharging is fine by me - commuting 40 miles a day.
oh.. and DO design me a laid back cruiser :) .
this is so much better lookgn than those hyrdogen powered bikes~ that look more like a bycycle trying to be a motorbike !

Actually it is significantly better to power your vehicle from the grid instead of oil. Takes about 5 minutes to look it up.

Loud pipes are always the answer hu? According to LAtimes.com rear ended fatal accidents only acount for 3.5% of all motorcycle fatalities, loud pipes can be hear in the direction they point. So point them straight pipes out the front and maybe we can fend off the 40+% of front end collisions from vehicles pulling out in front of motorcycles. For that matter why don't we just pulse the horn constantly???, though I don't think that will help much either, maybe air horns but 4 wheelers seem to pull in front of trains and semi's too.

As for gearing, i'm sure the large rear sprocket was nicely balanced, though a gear reduction allowing the use of a standard size sprocket could easily be put in place, but thats the whole point its a PROTOTYPE.

To those mocking the use of a perfectly good bike for the project: read closely its a "track beaten" I've seen nicer bikes than that labeled scrap metal due to insurance payout because theres a few scratches on the plastic, making them illegal to license and operate on public roads.
Considering the 0-60 time of 3 sec(which is very respectable), I'd be willing to bet with a simple 2 speed trans it would contend in the top end as well, hense making it a contender on the track too.

As for unprotected chains, thats nothing compared to the minibike I was riding when I was 8(and still ride occasionally to this day), and i still have all my fingers, toes, ear, and hair. Its people dumb enough to place there extremities near open chains that should NOT be allowed to operate these types of machines, probably the same ones riding with out insurance or properly licensed(which were a part of 18% of fatal accidents in 98').

Sorry I don't have time to research and rebuttle all the bogus claims posted. My one concern was, i'm sure someone will set me straight, wasn't the motor on the R1 a structured member of the frame? was the frame braced prior to adding the batteries? I bet its a bit hairy on the track, though I don't have much room to talk I'm racing a 1970 CB450. Just my 2 cent. Once battery prices come down I'll be on one, actually I already have plans for a electric minibike, with dangerously exposed chains as well!!!!!!

P.S. Strap a portable generator(solar panel or wind mill, but that might take a while to recharge) on the back and you have power on reserve, charge it while your shopping/working/playing...... Or at least have a method for getting home after you run out of juice.

I think in one of Will Smith's upcoming movies he'll have to drive something like this - VERY cool!

Just to clear it up, this was an old dead race bike with NO motor, or any gasoline running gear, body work and a bent sub frame, the price for the bike (rolling chassis) was a measly $500.00.
Old bikes with blown motors, make for good electric conversions.

thanks.

I'll buy one

Excellent!! When you reach 150 miles on a charge it will
make for a better commuting vehicle.

I'll buy one

Excellent!! When you reach 150 miles on a charge it will
make for a better commuting vehicle.

there are some things that should not change... loud bikes save lives you think people didn't see you before you'll be a greese spot on the road...

Everytime I hear someone talk about how "loud motorcycles save lives", it makes me laugh. When I have my stereo cranked and I'm talking on my cell phone I can't hear your Harley sorry...

While arguing over which is greener you've left out the fact that oil is heavilly subsidize. when you take into account the costs of fighting wars to protect our interests (i.e.) oil. Then suddenly the actual cost become more apparent, Waisted oil, natural resorse's, dollars,lives, and destroyed ecosystems.
The internal combustion engine that runs on fosil is a desaister.
The Bike is a great start.

i really like it, it looks like any other sportbike, however don't know if i'm into the boxes (batteries).

besides i'm glad for the progressive steps their taking to even try, i mean isn't a little bit of progression better than none at all?

i really like it, it looks like any other sportbike, however don't know if i'm into the boxes (batteries).

besides i'm glad for the progressive steps their taking to even try, i mean isn't a little bit of progression better than none at all?

has anyone ever seen a lithium mine.... hyrdogen fuel cells are the way forward