The $ 2000 CFL Cleanup: Where Urban Myths Come From

So the DEP doesn't want to get hit by a lawsuit so they recommend a hazardous waste cleanup company, who is more than happy to sell her as much of their service as they can. Yup, I see exactly what happened.

C'mon, folks, the 4mg of mercury in a bulb does require a careful pickup of pieces and proper disposal of any rags used, maybe air the room out well, but nothing more.

Steve Milloy cherrypicking and/or lying? Stop the presses! :)

Every society produces amoral gasbags who pretend to be objective. Milloy is just one of America's most prominent.

DEP measured mercury levels in her daughter's bedroom and found them to be higher than the standard set by the government.

That's why she was required to have her daughter's room declared a toxic waste site.

The story also notes that her homeowners insurance company wouldn’t cover the cleanup costs "because mercury is a pollutant."

Do whatever you want ... but if you put CFLs in your house, and they break (wow, that isn't common is it???) then you are spreading mercury dust throughout your family living space.

Why take the chance just so huge conglomerate corporations can make you pay 10x what a regular bulb costs that isn't poisonous?

Is it any wonder that Treehugger supports toxic light bulbs given the vast sums of advertising that Treehugger receives from the very manufacturers of these things?

LAME!!!!

The biggest concern in a situation like this would be the sharp glass. I bet that if that lady broke a thermometer (that has 200 times more mercury than a CFL according to nema) she wouldn't have done a thing about it.

It is sad to see how lame the media is trying to stop change giving a bad reputation to CFLs.
WE NEED TO SWITCH TO ENERGY EFFICIENT EVERYTHING!!!! HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND?!

Until LED lights become cheaper CFL IS THE WAY TO GO. If you break a bulb, dont step on the glass, vacuum it and be done.

I'm so glad treehugger addressed this article, because even me, the regular green reader, was a little concerned and confused by this piece of news. I can still understand this woman's concern, but wonder what other people have done when their 8 year-old-child broke a glass thermometer when she stuck it in a cup of hot chocolate because she was trying to fake sicker than she was because who wants to go to school??!!? (Ok, I admit it, I was that child)

Why isn't there any mention of the potential for mercury contamination on any of the packaging for CFL bulbs ?

Seems like a simple ... CAUTION breakage will release mercury into the immediate environment which will require special cleanup procedures.... ought to cover it.

Simply not mentioning the mercury content seems like there's something to hide.

WIth canada's ban of incandecents, and CFL's possible toxic properties. LED lights will be here faster than you can flick on a light :)

Some official CFL fact sheet links:

U.S. EPA/DOE EnergyStar

U.S. EPA (via NEMA)

In summary, they say to sweep up pieces - don't vacuum - wipe with damp paper towel, seal all debris in plastic bag. Open windows to disperse vapors. Deliver debris to hazardous waste facility; do not incinerate! Use trash only as a last resort.

Alas, neither fact sheet suggests what to do with carpet or other soft surface that can't be wiped with paper towels. (Neither document seems to have a date or contact information.)

Actually, elemental mercury isn't as dangerous as you might think: even if you swallow it, most will pass through your intestine and be excreted out (not that I'd recommend trying this).

Mercury fumes are highly dangerous, which is why you don't want to vacuum up spilled mercury or expose it to heat -- just use something damp and cool.

However, disposal of whatever you use to clean up the mercury is a problem: if you toss it out, it gets out into the environment, where bacteria turn it into methylmercury. Fish eat the bacteria, we eat the fish, and methylmercury, unlike elemental mercury, is easily absorbed by humans, and crosses the blood-brain barrier. It is a potent neurotoxin and developmental toxin.

"WIth canada's ban of incandecents, and CFL's possible toxic properties. LED lights will be here faster than you can flick on a light :)"

I'm all for LEDs. However, I see no problems with CFLs that aren't equivalent to the "thousands of scientific papers" concluding global warming is a myth. Also, trying to retrofit an incandescent fixture to use LEDs is a waste of time and money. If your going to use LED lighting, get fixtures that disperse the light properly. Same goes to an extent with CFLs , but mostly with exposed bulbs and track lighting.

I think the answer is just to not drop the bulbs... Although LEDs should be less likely to break ;)

I exposed them this morning....
http://www.thegoodhuman.com/2007/05/02/who-is-behind-the-fear-mongering-over-cfl-light-bulbs/

The Canadian National Post story is dated 4/28 and the Fox story is dated 4/29. Fox picked it up from the post.

It's all conjecture. You all know how to research on the internet. If you do a quick search you'll find it documented that CFLs are far less a threat to the environment and healthy living than the manufacture and use of incandescent bulbs. Start here www.greencambridge.org/epafactsheet-cfl.pdf

There is a lot more factual information. An entire industry of inefficient lighting manufactuers is being threatened. Whether it's oil, lights, building products, etc. those most threatened will spew disinformation. To see how rampant and deceptive it can get search on the "problems with ethanol"

So... Hasn't anybody thought about the mercury content of REGULAR fluorescent bulbs? There are millions of those already out there in businesses and home, and surely some of those have gotten broken before. Shouldn't we be freaking out already?

For how many years fluorescent tubes have been around and no one complain about that... ohh i see... there is a new guy in the block that you can sue right?

I think everyone seems to neglect one thing. Ever wonder how a mercury vapour fluorescent tube dies down? Usually mercury vapour leaking from it (much like gas from a balloon). This goes all in the air... but it's not a huge concern because we're talking about small amounts of mercury. Right wing news is just afraid of anything that will hurt their banks, anything that involves change, or likes anything that involves corporations dipping more money into them. For example, scares about how "txt messaging is used to organize crime" and therefore this new technology is evil. Like video games create murderers, but since movies have been around and we're used to them its ok that they are even more sexual/violent. Not to mention big scares about putting your name on the internet (but the phone book is just fine ladies and gentlemen?) or SARS is this relentless killing machine, not that the common flu hasn't killed anyone of course.

I am doing a school project, could someone please give me some links to, and/or run through the disadvantages of CFLs, because there are no sites on the internet that say anything about how long they take to get working, or how they are normally left on all the time so they donl't actually even save energy, whereas normal light bulbs are turned off when the room is left.

LA: just stick CFL into the search box on TreeHugger and almost everything you are asking about has been posted or discussed. (execpt you last point: you should flick off when you leave the room!)

Actually, its not an "urban myth" that cleaning up the mercury from a fluorescent lamp that has broken can cost in the thousands of dollars.

East Central Indiana school system spent $70,000 cleaning up the mercury from an 8 foot long broken fluorescent lamp in their library

http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/1793

Yes, these lights have been around for decades, but... They are primarily used in industrial sites where professioanls, or semi-professionals who knew how to handle the bulds took care of them. Now the push is to get them everywhere, especially in the homes of average consumers (who have no clue). I do not recall seeing many children crawling or playing on the floors of most industrial sites and virtually no one eats on the floor of a warehouse. People need to be aware that "You don't get something for nothing." These lights cannot replace regular bulbs in all applicaitons (they do not work well in the cold or in confined spaces). LEDs have great promise, but will have their own set of problems (heat from the voltage convertes, very toxic fabrication process, etc.)

let's not forget the trace amount of Mercury in the CFL is released in your home, that is so more dangerous that the ton and tons of shit that the power plant spews over the next hill and arround the corner.

let's not be near sighted folks, if all of our electricity was from non polluting generation methods that the incandessant becomes the better bulb, Untill then the less you can consume the less you'll pollute

In response to your request for proof of exposure problems from fluorescent lamps here is a link to another article.
http://www.ewire.com/display.cfm/Wire_ID/1793
This does not mean that I believe we should not use fluorescent lamps. On the contrary, it is an energy saver. However, the right thing to do is recycle lamps...not break them or allow them to enter the landfills.
One point to keep in mind...mercury is an "element", it is neither created or destroyed...it just changes form and moves on the pollute some other source, including our water bodies and our food chain. Cleanup and reclamation of mercury should be done in a responsible fashion. Just my opinion. Sharon

On carpet, since you shouldn't vacuum, use tape. Take a piece of (duct, masking) tape, loop it back around on itself, and press down on the carpet to pick up shards of glass.

For careful, considered information on the CFL and its problems, go to:
http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm

Folks:

Canada is getting so damn fascist. I used to use this as a joke, but it's getting unfunny.

I have tried and tried CFLs and come away very
disappointed. A solution helps nobody if it doesn't work. I'm not worried about mercury. Real T8s in T8 fixtures are fine with me, but CFLs are not a proper substitute for every Edison bulb.

Poor light quality, extended time to full brightness, shaky comparisons to 60W bulbs when the actual lumens are significantly less, excess weight that stresses sockets, inability to fit many light fixtures; tendency to overheat in some that they do fit -- do the CFL promoters mention this? The worst thing is the time to full brightness, which works against any efforts to get people to turn on a light then turn it off when it isn't needed.

I will use a CFL in specific situations. For example, I had some lights in an apartment hall that were always on for security reasons, and were in largish enclosed fixtures. These were successful; even though an enclosed fixture is not a good place for a CFL, these were large enough for some ventilation.

I really think the CFL is going to become the 1.6 gallon toilet of a new generation - a widespread technological failure that doesn't even solve its target problem but where the lack of field utility is endlessly masked by a patina of glowing hype.

Instructions for cleaning up CFBs can be found here:

http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/energystar.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2655

peace,

jlw

a couple of suggestions for those tunnel-visioned "environmentalists" hellbent on using cfl's and standard fluorescents: accidents happen, bulbs break, and complete cleanup of scattered mercury is virtually impossible; so DON'T use them in children's rooms - high susceptibility combined with chronic long - term exposure. also kitchens; risk of food contamination and high temperatures.
for aid in cleanup and greatly reducing vapors i recommend keeping some HGX (google it) on hand; long used in commercial / industrial settings. after sweeping up as much as possible, you mop, wipe, spray surfaces with the solution particularly porous surfaces, crevices etc. where countless tiny beads may remain. the stuff reacts to produce a layer of sulfide on larger beads greatly reducing outgassing and will convert smears, films entirely. (mercuric sulfide is a RELATIVELY less toxic form).
for those who, like myself would like to drastically reduce both the environmental toxin burden and energy consumption in advance of fossil fuel depletion, the following common sense suggestions: keep the cheap, non-toxic incandescents but use the smallest bulb that will do the job. turn off all unused lights and use dimmers - full brightness is essential only for reading and the like - dimmed is fine for just finding your way and greatly extends bulb life. and let's lobby against all those glaring (corporate) exterior lights that turn the night sky orange; you just know that this obscene excess involves lawyers and insurance companies as well as the well known corporate obsession with "security" . eliminate these first then worry about the relatively trivial savings from switching to residential cfl's. more to follow - mike

Well 62mike, with ad hominem attacks like "tunnel visioned, " no empirical data, and the all caps schtick, I certainly can't wait for what follows next.

Well 62mike, with ad hominem attacks like "tunnel visioned, " no empirical data, and the all caps schtick, I certainly can't wait for what follows next.

ok, tracy - i'll explain. i can't get itallics so caps will have to do for emphasis. while mercuric sulphide doesn't outgas, you wouldn't want to eat the stuff.
i completely agree with the (an) early contention of the environmental movement; that there is a limit to this planet's capacity to disperse and dilute myriad toxins to harmless levels, so it would be wise to quit dumping so much of them before those thresholds are reached. i regret the devolution of this movement into a bureaucratized, PC (excuse me) tendency to obsess over small aspects of the larger problem, proposing ill-conceived, expensive technological band-aids instead of concentrating on basic,systemic changes. this only triggers epithets like "shrill" and "tree-hugger" from the opposition and discredits an originally worthwhile movement. examples: the earlier posting mentions the low flow toilet and one of my favorites, the recent MTBE (sorry again, convention...) fiasco, trading a tiny,debatable reduction in air pollution for long-term groundwater contamination. not to mention the promotion of electric cars as "zero emission" when 50% of our electricity presently comes from coal burning and worse, some of us contend, another 15 - 20% from nuclear. and of course the ongoing attempts to mandate further reductions in automotive emissions, ignoring the reality that internal combustion is a mature technology; more and more effort and money for r&d will yield only trivial and costly improvement. better to concentrate effort on learning how to practically and economically utilize solar energy on the supply side, and on the demand side quit driving suv's (better?) and stop building transportation and energy intensive sprawl - systemic change.
anyhow -a long way from cfl's and i could go on but won't at present.
by the way, and not to get personal, but a response like yours demonstrates what i mean about getting bogged down in trivialities. i would be more interested in your thoughts on energy waste and mercury contamination, for instance; not a critique of my writing, which i'll admit is not all that it might be. let's concentrate on substance, not style please, and i stand by "tunnel vision" until you convince me otherwise. sorry. - mike

So we're trading pollution for environmental waste? That's insane. I'll stick with incandesent for now.

Unless the literature on this bulbs starts telling all the truths, and I can know to what extent recycling really does recollect the mercury.

And if it breaks...I thought the spagetti spill on my tan cloth couch 15 years ago was a pain.

How many people will really follow recycling them, or proper clean up?

Mike you've added many excellent points.

The problem with any flurecent lights is NOT what has been claimed as to breaking hazards, albeit, they do have tiny amount of mercury in them; but this is not the main problems.

One of the common problems with CFL's is the electronic ballast (the circuit that makes the lamp work). All too often, these circuits will fail long before the lamp does, thus making the entire lamp useless and trashable. The former magnetic ballast type CFL's never had these problems, albeit, their size was often a bit larger. As to LED's, we'll see what the future holds. I'm still not sold on the idea of congress passing a bill to eliminate incandescent lamps as the solution of our global warming...it's a farce at best. What happened to polution-free power plants anyway? (let alone polution-free cars)

Well - I accidentally broke a CFL simply by dropping it. Subsequently I had blood tests done and found that my liver function was abnormal and took six months for the blood test to come back to normal. The mercury problem is real. And don't forget that CFLs are manufactured in China with no regulations in place. I'm not convinced that CFLs offer an environmental solution to lighting efficiency.

Silicone Coated Shatterproof CFL's - silibulb.com is a lowcost alternative for CFL's - crystal clear silicone coating contains the mercery, glass and phosphor if the CFL - Coating is envirnmentally friendly, can be recycled with the CFL and is a green product.

More info can be found at www.silibulb.com