That's all very well. But I'd rather drive a MINI. Problem is, in a car that small, there's nowhere to put the batteries.

Nick Kasoff

I live in Detroit....the Motor City....and I can tell you one thing that big corporations won't figured out: It doesn't look cool & it doesn't look like a regular minivan, so it won't sell. People want pretty. And if pretty isn't available, they want the standard model. That is the #1 reason why the big 3 lost so much $ on hybrids already. Make it look like a sports car & people will buy it....make it look practical & people will only buy it when they HAVE to....I'd hate to see toyota loose $ on something the American public doesn't want. Make a hybrid that looks like a Vette or a Charger & make it out of light weight plastic like my Saturn....and EVERYONE will fist-fight for it like a Tickle-Me-Elmo at Christmas time.

Every person I know who owns a hybrid has told me that they don't see the gas mileage which was advertised. Hybrids, in addition to using lead-acid batteries, do not eliminate traffic, pavement and roadway expansion, and the thousands of deaths on America's roads.
There is no sustainable solution which continues the trend of utilizing 4000 lb steel vehicles.
We must embrace transit, rail, and bicycle transportation if there is to be any success. You can learn more by reading about countries such as Cuba which have created oil-free economies.

A hybrid Yukon in a nice oxymoron... I am pretty distrurbed but what I like to refer to a "green washing". I sadly know that most US consumers are too out of touch to really look into many of these issues.

I understand the frustration with low gas mileage hybrids but saying they aren't truly hybrids is an obvious fallacy. They ARE hybrids they use a hybrid drive train and the Lexus ls 600h l definitely does serve a purpose in reducing gas mileage. People wanting status symbols won't sacrifice luxury for efficiency and there's no logical reason to expect to be able to force them to. Therefore reducing the consumption of those vehicles is the next best thing which the LS600h and the and the GS450h do very well. Honestly its infuriating that you can't see the big picture. I KNOW that the "big" picture involves a dire need to reduce consumption but you can't convince some people of that so sneaking it in under their noses will work. .. its just SO ignorant to expect Toyota to ignore a market (and leave that market consuming more energy than they would if Toyota didn't ignore that market) just because they can't force gas mileage to the height that you think they should.

"Every person I know who owns a hybrid has told me that they don't see the gas mileage which was advertised."

Non-hybrids also don't get the EPA sticker mileage, that's normal. You either have to compare real-world mileage with real-world, or EPA with EPA. The problem is that people compared hybrid's EPA with hybrid's real-world just because they have that screen showing them MPG, something they usually don't have in regular cars.

"Hybrids, in addition to using lead-acid batteries"

Hmm, no, they usually use nickel-metal hydride batteries which are 100% recyclable (they actually pay you to recycle it).

"I understand the frustration with low gas mileage hybrids but saying they aren't truly hybrids is an obvious fallacy."

They are indeed hybrids. The problem is that the "hybrid" brand has been sold to the public as "gas saving" for many years, and now when they advertise these muscle or mild-hybrids as "hybrid", they're hoping that people will think that they're just the same as Priuses..

Part of the fault is with consumers who don't do their homework, but part of it is with carmakers for trying to mislead.

Yeesh, the ignorance:

"they don't see the gas mileage which was advertised."

No vehicle's real world mileage will be the same as sticker. I have a friend with a Prius who has that pulse/glide thing down to a science. Gets over 60mpg on average, and he keeps super detailed records. Another friend who is all into diesels has an 05 Jetta TDI with a manual transmission. He gets 51mpg on average and does not drive like a granny either.

"in addition to using lead-acid batteries"

As already stated, I shall rephrase: DUH, NimH.

"Cuba which have created oil-free economies."

Oh boy, someone's been smoking that hemp rather than making hempoline. :)

If we could just get this minivan over here, all those damn soccer moms mentioned the other day would at least have something that gets reasonable mileage to drive the rats around in. And with all that space, I bet CalCars could expand the battery pack to make a nice long range PHEV.

"Part of the fault is with consumers who don't do their homework, but part of it is with carmakers for trying to mislead."

A guy I worked with owned a Jetta TDI - which gets AWESOME mileage and is not a "hybrid". He got into an accident and had to replace it. He bought into the hybrid hype and got a Honda Accord Hybrid. He told me he gets 50MPG. I laughed at him and said to come see me in a month. He's since realized his intensions of getting a high mileage vehicle wasn't realized. I commend him for trying, but the word hybrid is being used to fool people. Manufacturers have a responsibility they are failing on.

Also, I agree with the folks above talking about class warfare. If someone is going to buy a luxury SUV - I would much rather them buy the Lexus hybrid. It gets BETTER mileage than the regular one and you cannot (and must not) expect people to change their life style. Just because we chose to put mileage/greenness as a high priority in our life doesn't mean we should cram that philisophy down everyone's throat. We do live in a free country.

Being an engineer, I love root cause analysis. The American consumer loves big and fast. Why do we love big and fast? Because over our history, fuel prices have been cheap, so we grew to not worry about conservation and efficiency. If the federal government put a tax on natural gas, gasoline/deisel and electricity of 30-50%, phased in over the next 10 years, I would guarantee that would change our way of thinking. Remove the root of cheap fuel - and the consumer will respond with learning and implementing efficiency.

"Every person I know who owns a hybrid has told me that they don't see the gas mileage which was advertised."

I love reading articles which decry the EPA mileage ratings as unrealistic and unachievable -- then include a list of ten ways to maximize your gas mileage. It basically boils down to "don't speed, don't drive like a moron, and keep your car maintained" and if you follow them, you can EASILY achieve the EPA ratings. I consistently get better-than-EPA mileage in both my hybrid (2005 Escape) and my regular car (2001 Civic). Though I will admit, you don't personally know me ;-)

The only reason I got a "large" hybrid (the Escape) was because I needed a family-sized vehicle. And my family's continuing to grow. Luckily, I imagine I won't need a minivan-sized car for at least three years, by which time I hope the Estima (or similar models) will have arrived stateside. (I'd prefer a hydrogen fuel cell car, but might have to wait until the kids are grown for one of those...)

Yes, I know I'd be a better treehugger if I crammed us all into a Prius. So I'm getting 34 mpg instead of 50... at least I didn't get the regular version of the Escape at only 25 mpg! Small changes are easier to achieve, and still make a difference.

Every person I know who owns a hybrid has told me that they don't see the gas mileage which was advertised.

I'd imagine that if people had fuel economy gauges in their cars, they wouldn't be able to get the EPA estimated mileage out of their conventional vehicles.

My parents consistently get between 45 and 50 mpg in their 2001 Prius. If you're getting significantly less than that, you're probably driving it wrong.

"My parents consistently get between 45 and 50 mpg in their 2001 Prius. If you're getting significantly less than that, you're probably driving it wrong."

It's actually very hard to drive a Prius "wrong". You don't even have to drive it slow to get good mileage.

99% of people who report really bad MPG are people who ALMOST ONLY do very short trips which are too short for the gas engine to warm up.

This makes the Prius get crappy mileage, but IT'S THE SAME with regular gasoline cars. You just don't know it because there's not a nice LCD screen showing you.

There is a an all electric minivan that I have had my eye on for a while now. It is offered through Texas Electric Bikes and is reasonably priced ($12K). Not that hybrids are bad or anything, but I really want to get this van and I think others would want to as well. I am actually getting rid of my car soon and I am hoping on some more info on this EC-5.

I'm getting 50 mpg hyway and 60 city with my Prius. I don't drive slow and my top speed was 107 mph. BTW at 107 MPH you only get 35 mpg, but at 65 mph I do get 50 mpg.

PHEV's are great if you use solar, wind, or hydro to fill your tank up. I plan to do that and that is why I am converting my Prius to a PHEV. In the neighborhood less than 34 mph run on electric only. On the freeway for the first thirty miles everyday you can get over 100 mpg. Go on a long trip, or forget to plug it in, just fill up at the regular gas stations every 500 miles or so. Don’t waste money on Hydrogen as it take more energy just to separated it from water then if you would just put that energy into batteries in the first place. Why pay for consumables that we just don’t need anymore.

http://priuschat.com/My-official-Prius-Plus-mods-thread-t26951.html

I agree with Aaron's post!! Sustainable transportation = pre-1900's style (animal, foot, bike) and sailing ships + trains.

cheers!

Several years ago, after very briefly test driving an EV1 and before all the hybrid hype, I wrote to GM suggesting they design an electric car retrofit kit for the Saturn SL1/2, because the engine will likely wear out before the rest of the car does (love those polymer panels). The engine compartment of the EV1 had Saturn "fingerprints" all over it. I got a polite "thanks, but no thanks" response back from GM.

Then GM wimped out on the Saturn Vue hybrid, changing it from an advanced hybrid to a hybrid-lite. They've already lost my next vehicle purchase.

"There is a an all electric minivan that I have had my eye on for a while now. It is offered through Texas Electric Bikes and is reasonably priced ($12K)."

I took a look at it on the website. It's not a minivan, but a subcompact car. I think it's actually 4 door trike, much like a the Robyn Mr. Bean drives, only slightly bigger. I would NOT want my family to get into an accident in that egg shell!

"I live in Detroit....the Motor City....and I can tell you one thing that big corporations won't figured out: It doesn't look cool & it doesn't look like a regular minivan, so it won't sell."

Are you saying that Estima picured at the top of this page doesn't look cool? I think it looks great! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I found this article too late to get in on the petition. Can someone tell me how many signatures the petition got? I've been holding onto my 2000 Ford Windstar, itching for a hybrid minivan. Our other car is a 2001 Prius, and we use that whenever we don't need both vehicles or we don't need to move > 4 passengers (Me, wife, + 2 kids) or we aren't moving something too big for the Prius.

When will the Toyota hybrid minivan be available in the US?

1. Big 3 lost $ on hybrids because those are NOT hybrids - they do not save much gas, they are too expensive, and plainly most of big 3's cars are ORDINARY - all of them. So, whoever buys most of their cars, do not know what "pretty" is.
2. "Pretty" is different for different people. Same with practical. I would rather use term "there are too many dumb people who do not buy good cars, - e.g. do not buy hybrids and stick with gass-guzzlers".
3. I want my car to be:
(a) use little gas as possible
(b) drive well and be 4 WD
(c) be roomy, at least 6 passengers
(d) be reliable
(e) look good
I would buy hybrid Mazda 5. But none is available.
4. I drive Prius. Not as a statement, - but to save on gas. And it does save me a bunch! All people who complain about hybrids not matching advertised MPG are either driving them for short trips (for which hybirds do not save much), or drive in city racing from stop light to stop light (and why did you sell your race-bike?), or cannot count. I get 51 mpg in summer (mostly highway driving, regular city driving even better), a bit worse in winter due to heater on (Northeast winters do not get counted in MPG estimates). And this car is absolutely fantastic - roomy, flexible, cushy, quiet. But, alas, not satisfying all of my above desires (especially, # passengers & 4-WD), that is - not a minivan.
5. All this about "people want muscle cars" - is just teenagers speaking and big 3's pounding their propaganda on you. Look around! How many muscle cars are your friends driving? Unless you count those heavy SUVs gass-guzzler road-wrecks - where it does not matter if there is anything under the hood - these cars cannot race!

I recently sold my 04 Toyota Sienna and got an 08 Prius. Even with three kids, this car certainly fits all five of us comfortably and then some. Sure I miss the space but with gas prices going up and not coming down, I'm happy with my purchase. When the hybrid sienna comes to U.S. soil, I will consider it. With increasing prices on everything, "pretty" is taking a back seat and practicality is in the driver's seat.

I own a 2004 Toyota Sienna (yes, I am one of those "damn soccer moms," to quote a previous poster, thanks a bunch...) and I can't wait for Phoenix Motorcars to launch its all-electric SUV (more info here: http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/index.php).

I long for the day when I don't have to give one more penny to the oil companies. I hate them as intensely as I love my kids.