As a Canadian, I think the new plan is pretty pathetic and sad. I never thought we'd turn into a rogue state so fast.

Totally agree with the anonymous poster. Steven Harper? A climate terrorist, as he has been labeled last month by Greenpeace. Stockwell Day? An idiot of first order, and he's our minister of security. Google for his dumb remarks on Global Warming making way for more waterfront properties. John Baird? His monkey, that jumps how high Harper wants him to.

Combined, this lot is our government. Their actions are disgusting, insulting and criminal. Reminds me of a crew of a pirate ship.

If, in the upcoming elections in the near future, Canadians choose to vote Torries into power again, I will cease to be proud to call myself Canadian.

Uh, who's Gore to say this stuff? His house is a total energy hog - uses WAY more than the average citizen... but he justifies it by saying he buys wind power. I call hypocrite!

Canada is making progress - if we expect governments to save us, we are all in dire need of a makover. Once the price of renewables comes down, we will see private sector take the lead. If it makes financial sense - the private sector will adopt en mass. Just look at Kohls in California. The state incentive makes RE a cost effective alternative, and they are jumping all over it.

2nd Anonymous poster:

You call Gore hypocrite, I call you spiteful. Who knew how detrimental one immature emotional response could be towards handling climate change. Spite, whether it comes from anger, jealousy, ignorance, is not needed nor welcome.

In the US, for the time being at least, we may be clinging to the hope of the private sector taking the lead until whichever President leads the green charge in 2009 (hopefully), but Canada can and should do more. We expect it of you, but most urgently you should expect if of yourselves. Be excited that Gore is calling your government on its proposed standards-- at least they may respond and change course!

Don't play the "lowest common denominator" game, in which every nation defers to the one below them in environmental standards. USA to China, etc. etc. Hearing Canada cop out that they've done better than America... that's like saying you got a D- and barely passed school rather than failing outright. Take some initiative, and demand it of your leaders!

At least they are doing something. Our last government talked a better game, but did even less.

I suspect the "Green" party might get a seat in government next time around, it would be good for everyone I think.

I applaud Al Gore for creating a buzz about Global Warming.

That's about it. Let's be objective for a second. He uses 10 times more energy than the average American and then does good by buying carbon offsets from himself? How much business did "An Inconvenient Truth" create?

If he wants to make the world a better place, he should consider creating a prize for reducing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere...oh wait Richard Branson is already doing that.

Is anyone out there surprised that Gore's energy hogging garnered almost no media attention?

http://www.suntimes.com/news/steyn/281949,CST-EDT-STEYN04.article

Let's try to think positively, and not just along party lines.

Every single time this website mentions Al Gore we get the same comment about how much energy he uses. Even Chris, who says "Let's try to think positively, and not just along party lines." links to an article by Mark Steyn, who quit writing for Canada's National Post because it was no longer right wing enough for him. (great writer, though) Enough already. This website tries very hard to be apolitical and I think I may just start axing comments that keep doing this Gore eats energy thing, it is getting really stale, tiresome, boring and polarizing. Its like people latch onto one thing and keep flogging it forever until people believe it.

If you want to keep this argument going, we are starting a new Forum feature tomorrow and can hash it out there.

Lloyd-

I was just trying to put things in perspective. Who is Al Gore to call the Canadian Govt. a fraud? It may be too little too late...but it is something. Let's be positive.

As for the article...I make it a habit to not make claims without posting facts to back them up. Not trying to divide. Sorry if it was taken that way.

LA: and I perhaps over-reacted. My apologies.

If you want to keep this argument going, we are starting a new Forum feature tomorrow and can hash it out there.

Woohoo!

I was just trying to put things in perspective. Who is Al Gore to call the Canadian Govt. a fraud? It may be too little too late...but it is something. Let's be positive.

Your "perspective" is called an ad hominem attack, which is basically a misdirection, not a rebuttal. Even if Gore uses one thousand times the energy of an average American, it doesn't change the fact that the new Canadian climate plan is a dud. If you wish to point out Gore's hypocrisy, you're obviously free to do so, but to use that point in a debate that has nothing to do with Gore is dishonest.

mdpdb-

You are right...that was ad hominem. I was trying to emphasize that Gore shouldn't be pointing fingers. As the article itself says:

"The fact is our plan is vastly tougher than any measures introduced by the administration of which the former vice-president was a member," Baird said in the statement.

Did you read the article?

I'm tired of the soap-boxing by "celebs". Most of the time, the attention garnered is not what the cause needs.

Ever heard the line: "actions speak louder than words"?

Of course, there is nothing wrong with campaigning to an extent. I just wish Al would have simply pointed out the faults of the plan instead of accusing the Tory government of intentionally trying to "mislead the Canadian people".

Please tell me how I was dishonest?

As a Canadian, I think that he's right, BUT he also neglects to say that a previous government (liberal) had no specifics to their plan.

If I had a choice, I would take real regulation over talk.

However, almost everyone agrees that the steps they've take are inadequate. The goverment needs some balls to install a true cap and trade system and/or a carbon tax.

I would like to see a more aggressive model that reinforces/amplifies the economics of efficiency (i.e. don't waste/pollute because it will cost you money).

As an aside: US posters kettle => black.

Sigh, listen, people should be able to call attention to problems. Period. If you can't respond to that attention with anything other than an attack on the character or background of the person who brought up the problem in the first place, it's a sign of intellectual weakness. The fact remains that, even with his energy consumption, Gore is accomplishing far more to reduce global warming by raising awareness than any of us will by making personal footprint reductions. And the points he's raising are totally valid and echoed by any number of other environmentalists, both Canadian and American.

And, as an American living in Canada, I have to say the all-too-typical Canadian reflex of only paying attention to whether Canada rates higher than the US or not is really frustrating. Being say 5% better than the US (and in other cases, worse) isn't nearly good enough. How about comparing both Canada and the US to Sweden, rather than each other? We're both pretty bad. Let's drop this ridiculous sibling rivalry and wake up to the fact that both Canada and the United States are ridiculously wasteful countries.

mdpdb-

"Sigh, listen, people should be able to call attention to problems. Period. If you can't respond to that attention with anything other than an attack on the character or background of the person who brought up the problem in the first place, it's a sign of intellectual weakness."

How is my criticism of Al Gore different than you criticizing me? To borrow a page from your book: hypocrite

You just don't agree with me. That's fine. What's not fine is calling me dishonest and intellectually weak and personally attacking my character because you disagree.

By the way. I am in 100% agreement that the US and Canada should be aiming higher. The amount of {insert anything} that is wasted in North America because we can is ridiculous.

Chris: I didn't mean to call you dishonest. What I mean to say is the *form of your argument* is dishonest. I don't know what you intended to do with it, or if you recognized that it was not a valid argument when you made it; I don't even know you. So please don't be insulted.

What I *am* saying is that arguments of that form (ad hominem) are often used by people who otherwise have no response to the person they're criticizing in order to divert attention away from the original issues being raised. That's why I brought in those words before, and I'm sorry I made it seem like they applied to you, that was unintended.

To summarize what I was saying earlier, Yes, Gore may have a wasteful lifestyle, but nevertheless, he can be 100% correct about the Harper government's environment plan, *and simultaneously* have a wasteful lifestyle. They're separate questions. We can have a different discussion about how bad his lifestyle is, but even should we conclude that his lifestyle sucks, that doesn't mean we shouldn't listen to him when he criticizes the Conservative party's plan.

You may disagree with me on that last point, but I again raise the fact that an ad hominem argument is universally recognized as a fallacious form of argument (see my Wikipedia link, above). If that doesn't sway you, then I guess our discussion is over, and we should just agree to disagree.

I read a while back about this Harper guy. While I don't know much about him, it was pointed out how much he was like a Bush-wannabe. I don't know who's more of an idiot, George Bush or someone who wants to be like him. I used to think Canada was pretty progressive, so it's sad if Canada is turning into what the US has been for the last few years.

Chris/ 2nd Anonymous poster,

"That's about it. Let's be objective for a second. He uses 10 times more energy than the average American and then does good by buying carbon offsets from himself? How much business did "An Inconvenient Truth" create?"

"Uh, who's Gore to say this stuff? His house is a total energy hog - uses WAY more than the average citizen... but he justifies it by saying he buys wind power. I call hypocrite!

Umm, wind power doesn't produce CO2 emissions, so more than "justifying" it, that of course necessarily means his house doesn't add to global warming. So that would mean he isn't a hypocrite. Carbon offsetting is a legitimate concept, it means paying money for activities that counteract the CO2 you produce. While it's not a substitute for other actions, it's not a scam by any means. He in fact pays a lot more for wind power than he would for fossil-fuel based electricity and recently he decided to buy solar panels for his house.

And you said the whole Gore thing got hardly any media attention. I don't know if you're only talking about Canada, but it was all over the corporate media here. The usual right-wing liars and Fox news were all over it expectedly, and of course sites like media matters were debunking it. Even though it was a dishonest smear, it's remained a standard talking point for the underinformed and overopinionated.

Your "argument" isn't even a true ad hominem (at least in the sense of pointing out something that actually exists). It's a lie plain and simple. I'm not saying you purposely lie you probably believe it. But please try to do a little research before blindly repeating wht you hear on right-wing propagand radio,tv, or wherever you heard/read it. There's a big difference afterall between Faux News and reality.

"I'm tired of the soap-boxing by "celebs". Most of the time, the attention garnered is not what the cause needs.

Ever heard the line: "actions speak louder than words"?"

Now that's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read. Of course it requires attention. Al Gore and his efforts are probably the main reason why it's gotten the attention it is. The media ignores it or at most gives it very little attention and makes it still seem controversial, and of course the government does nothing.

And no, in this case actions don't speak louder than words. If Al Gore sat at home and did nothing but figure out how to make his house consume no energy it wouldn't make any significant difference. The whole point is this is a collective problem, it can't be solved by one or a few people but requires society as a whole to make efforts to solve it.