9W LED Bulb Replaces 70W Incandescent

The $60-$70 price point is interesting in that I'd like to know how it breaks down. What's dominating the price? LEDs, power conditioning components, manufacturing? If this was known, it'd provide more insight into how quickly the price would drop. From what I remember of white LEDs, those buggers are expensive.

Mike

For comparison, an equivalent compact flourescent would be about 18 watts.

Also, the above bulbs output about half as many lumens at the 70w comparison. So you might actually need two bulbs to achieve the same luminosity of one 70w incandescent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_bulb#Power

How long would such a bulb last, I assume a long time.

Is it possible that it needs less total lumens because those that are there are better directed than in an incandescent? Honest question.

Is it possible that it needs less total lumens because those that are there are better directed than in an incandescent? Honest question.

From my understanding...no. It's just dimmer. Incandesants and CFL tubes throw light almost 360 degrees, LED's only throw it in front, hence the 150 LED's in that bulb. I'm not sure on why but they only go so far then, less ambient light maybe. LED's are essentially a bunch of tiny spotlights, there is falloff between the cones so less lumens...

I just pulled that from you know where, but it makes sense to me.

To Tim: LEDs bulbs last about 10-15 years.

I'm curious about the lumens issue, because another manufacturer quotes 36 LED bulb = 60 lumens = 25W equivalent.

That is kinda high price....

Basicially:
Incandescent bulbs: 22 Lumens/Watt lifespan: 1.5K Hrs
CFL: 50 to 100 lumens/Wat Lifespan: 6K ->15K hrs
Led: 32 lumens/Watt, newer stuff promising 50 to 100 lm/W Expected Lifespan: up to 100K hrs

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That bulb is one of the most expensive I've seen, and the it uses a lot more energy than other LED incandescent replacement (Factor that in over the lifespan)
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Here is a cheaper one:

1.3 Watt 110V LED Light Bulb (60 Watt equiv) $5.99

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=18-LED-CLR&cpc=RECOM

They also have spotlight type LED lights, same price

for $70. I can buy apx 10 of these (with shipping)

Look to me -- inventive marketing. 308 Lumen for 9 watts is about 34 Lumens per Watts. Better than the average incandescent lamp but not that good.

I don't have access to all my documentation but my reference is usually the following:

Good quality -- 60 Watts Incandescent: 870 Lumens or 14.5 Lumens/Watts
Fine CFL of 13 Watts: 800 Lumens or 61 Lumens/Watts.

If I remember: I have 7 Watts CFL that produce 480 Lumens or 65 Lumens/Watts. These have a frosty cover and Instant ON quality. Very good.

LEDs are likely the future of lighting, however they just can't compete for now. This bulb is half as efficient as a CF bulb, 33 Lumens/Watt compared to 60 lm/W for the CFs.

I think we should all just walk around with LED headlamps on our heads (which would be powered by batteries that have been charged with solar power, of course). You only need to light up the area you are looking at, anyway, so why waste the extra energy to light up the rest of the world? :-)

If a light falls in a forest, and no one sees it, is it really light?

Though, headlamps might be tough when you're looking at someone else's face... Maybe diffusers could be encorporated into the headlamps that automatically dim the center of the light when it detects another headlamp?

But really, we should all just evolve night vision and be dome with it!

Turil: If everyone used night-vision:
1 - night vision still requires light, just a lot less of it.
2 - if everybody had night-vision systems: the IR light would basicly have the same blinding effects, except they would only be visible in the thingys. And it would screw up tv remotes...

Extreme Greek, eh?

I've read that the bulbs last 10 years "continuous". Meaning you could leave the sucker on for 10 years straight before it died. The price is uber-ridiculous but if I were building a new place or just purchased a new place, I would definately try to cost these into high-traffic areas of my house like the kitchen, where I tend to leave the lights on and the bathrooms. It would be nice to just let those areas be lit without worrying about wasting money and power. The price is a small one to pay for the guilt free ambiance..

Why would somebody fork out $70 for an LED light bulb that uses 9 watts..... to conserve hydro? well, maybe...but you would have to be pretty dumb to spend 70 bucks on an LED bulb when you can spend a few dollars on a compact fluorescent light bulb that puts out the same amount of light and uses about 13 watts of electricity... pay $68 more for 3 or 4 watts less hydro consumption? LED's are just not worth it for most of us.... the only thing they have proven good for is police & fire emergency lighting where their fast response, extreme brightness and low energy use make them ideal...

The price continues to be the problem with the LED lightbulbs becoming more popular. I love the idea, it's definitely the future...why does every idiot use the term "price point"? Same people who say "please advise" and "as per ___".

Just don't plug one of these things in anywhere around Boston, you'll cause a major bomb scare!!

X-Treme GReek, you say?

One thing I don't see discussed in the cost equations for CF and LED replacement bulbs is the cost of defect failures. I've purchaced about 10 CF replacement bulbs for use arounf my house. after 6 months to a year, 2 died prematurely. Yes they theoretically last X times (I forget X) longer than a $0.50 incandesant bulb, but because they have electronics, and they get hot, and they are made to be cheap, they fail. They are nowhere near a reliable as a tungten filiament. If you have to add %20 to your cost for defect failures, the comparison is not quite as good.

X-Treme Greek hey? I think you mean X-Treme Geek..

Unless this is an exclusive Greek verison of the well known X-Treme Geek..

LED's produce something around 28-35 units of light per watt. incandescents produce ~35. the best lightbulbs produce ~75-85 units per watt. LED are *not* an efficient technology.

I wish people would remember that metal halide and mercury vapor are MUCH more efficient than LEDs or compact fluorescents. It would only take about 4 watts of metal halide to put out 300 lumens of full-spectrum daylight.

Its promising technology, and I'm all for it, but better to spend the money in other power-saving areas I think. Sure, they'll last long after they are made obsolete by superior technology, and they use half to a quarter of the power as a 'long life' compact flourescent... but the installation and running cost to for a whole house of these just isn't sensible. Much better to use normal or long-life globes and invest in solar hot water and/or grid connected photovoltaic.

Still, bring it on!

I would agree that it is not a 70 watt bulb equivalent. Perhaps the company is trying to discourage overlighting, but they shouldn't lie about something like this. I know a lot of people pay no attention to the lumens produced by a bulb, just going off the old standard they know.

You can leave CFL's on all the time and they'll last years too. CFL's wear out at the starter. If you never use it, the phosphor will last but the bulb will get dimmer.. I have a 12W Earthlite CFL that's still going 6 years on. It's never turned off as it is used on a hallway.

The price for a 9w LED is ridiculous. I'll wait for the newer technology to come out and then it will be equiv. 90W led that uses 10W.I would want a DAYLIGHT LED version, not off-white or "cool."

My whole house is just about outfitted with CFL's. The cheaper ones buzz when turned on. I have at least 25 of them. Even the porch light is a CFL. They are 20W and I turn them off when I leave the room. I've paid about $ CDN 7 per bulb on average although the Earthlite on special in 98 was $ 15.

These are some crazy bulbs!

I really wonder how the light looks that is coming off of these. Is it a nice white light or is it blinding like most LEDs?

Wikipedia suggests that white LEDs are about the same efficiency as fluorescent lamps, so why is this a great idea? Why wouldn't I just use flourescents everywhere?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_%28electrical_component%29#LED_lamp

Red and Blue LED's with a more focused beam is perfect for indoor hydroponic "tomato" gardens, as the spectrum absorbed by the "tomatoes" is more efficient with LEDs than HIDs, CFL, and incandescents.

NASA has even used LEDs for experimenting with growing plants in space because of more efficient consumption of power, and less heat production and as mentioned, near perfect absorbtion of the LED's spectrum.

The only thing they need are some killer tomato seeds from Amsterdam.

X-Treme Greek is spanakopitastic!

These are not that good and VERY expensive. I buy 300led 4ft sticks off ebay for $34 and they put out roughly 120watts of light (a bit more than a 100watt bulb using seat of the pants estimate) I use 3 of them in my bedroom and its as bright as daylight. 11watts consumption each :-)

2 factors. one placement. Critcal. the shadows are Harsher so I have one each on 3 ways so the light from each bulb crosses the others filling the room evenly and without major shadows.

Second led's are point sources of light effectively more related to lasers than light bulbs so you need 2 things ONE 120' angle led's (shaped epoxy heads) nd #2 SPREAD the bulbs. 300 bulbls in a circle useless 300 bulbs in 3 rows of 100 4ft long VERY effective and also spread enough that LOOKING directly at it does not burn a hole into the back of your brain :-)

Do this and they are wonders. I am replacing all the FLouro fixtures in my dad's business with these. for each 8ft dual bulb fixture I have to use 4 maybe 5 of these led bulbs but the power difference is MASSIVE the 8ft dual flouro's consume 192watts of power minimum while 4 of the led tubes will only consume 44 watts

doing all of them will cost about $900 with an ROI of 10.2 months saving OVER $100 a month on the electric bill. Figuring 80,000 life (white led don't last as long as colored ones) thats 12.1 years at 18 hours a day.

Savings in Electricity over the life of the bulbs over $14,000 dollars cold hard cash. PLUS the savings from having to change bulbs change ballasts going to th store to get them replace them PAYING someone to go up a 12ft ladder to replace them etc.. etc..

Plus the materials savings on the enviroment. at LEAST 50 8ft bulbs and and 40 4ft bulbs in that same 12 years plus 24-32 ballasts

Plus reduced fire hazzard (nearly no heat and no amps being drawn to speak of)

This also makes it theoretically possible to put a VERY modest sollar array on the roof and battery pack for the sole purpose of powering the lighting alone. eliminating power grid need for the lights at least and meaning we keep going if the power goes out (common where we are at least 6-7 long blackouts a year (long being more than 1.5 hours of so)

The Benefits are just massive and immediate.

NOW in a HOME the benifits are not so immediate or huge. a home uses far less power (he consumes 6.1 million watts a month) I did the math on a solar array to provide that much power. $89,000 :-) not cunting batteries or electronics ie just the panels needless to say we won't be doing that :-)

but LED lights ROCK. I light my room BRIGHTER than 2 300watt halogen floor lamps (thats 600watts) on 33 watts of power :-) nice :-) I might add a 4th tube just to make it brighter and still consume less than a 50w bulb :-)

They will last so long I will be able to pass them to my children and they might even last long enough to pass them to there kids :-)

NOW there is one flaw. Asthetics. I happen to like the sci fi'ish tube light look but for ambiance they might not be so hot. IE these bulbs here are HUGE and they further the problem by trying to be a omni source with a point source light so a lot of the lumens are wasted requiring far MORE led's to makeup for this. and then you still have the point source issue.

First if you going to do this you need lampshades. first lamp shades SPREAD the light so its less point source like (the difference is massive) and they soften the light making it warmer.

an LED bulb like this will actually appear tolight the room BETTER inside a lampshade than bare. and it eliminates the asthetics problem :-)

Turn off the lights in your kitchen :)

And what is the colour and shade of the light emitted?
All of these things sound good until the logistics come into play.
Give me biodiesel or give me death.

As they stand at the moment LEDs are not a realistic replacement for household use if your main consideration is energy saving.
Where LEDs currently become viable is where the other benefits of the technology come into their own. These are: Cool running, LEDs do not produce as much Infrared or Ultraviolet light making them suitable for use where heat or ultraviolet may cause problems (Artwork, bars, museums,etc.); Colour & flexibility, White LEDs are not particularlycost efficient, but having an a bulb which you can change the colour of using a remote controll? or set to slowly scroll through them? - again ideal for pubs & bars; size, because of their tiny size LEDs can be packaged in a wide variety of ways - Long thin strips, standard light fittings, flat sheets, etc. they can be used in a wide range of places where normal lighting just doesn't work.
Finally length of life: In an office environement having lighting that does not need to be changed every 6 months means huge savings in labour costs, and reduced health & safety risks of people climbing on ladders, tables, etc to get at the light fittings.
And for 'life span' some manufacturers are claiming up to 100,000 hours. However the general consensus seems to be estimated at "At least 50,000 hours" before they start becoming noticeably dimmer.
Wait 5 years and LEDs will be in the market at the same place as Compact Flourescent is now.

How many treehuggers does it take to screw in a $70 bulb? At that price, I would think none. Still waiting...

Spotlighting this LED lamp looks like wishful thinking. But LEDs won't be ready for prime time until they meet two key performance criteria: lumens per watt and color rendering.

The standard 60-watt incandescent makes about 850 lumens, a paltry 14 lumens per watt. A 13-watt compact fluorescent has comparable output; 65 lumens per watt. And the light quality (color rendering) is almost as good.

At 594 lumens (was 308 for the non-frosted version a typo?), the 9-watt LED makes 65 lumens per watt. While that is comparable with most fluorescent systems, it's not a significant advance that justifies it's price premium or substandard light quality. LEDS do enjoy a significant advantage in lamp life, and maybe that's worth it in some critical or hard-to-access applications.

Hopefully soon when they boost the lumens-per-watt and/or the light quality, we'll see the "killer app" that brings the price way down. Like what happened w/ red LEDs when they started using them in stoplights. Now if you use incandescent or fluorescent in an exit sign you're way off track. LEDs are the norm there. But anybody who has used white LEDs knows the light quality still lags.

TH

And to answer the first post, the price is due to the LEDs. You can buy an exit sign for less than $20. It comes with many red LEDs in a big plastic case, backup battery, and the electronics to run the LEDs, automatically switch between normal and backup power, and charge the battery.

White LEDs need the killer app.

Tt12s

Does anyone know if LEDs can be used with a dimmer switch?

My question would be is it dimmable? I am using 15 incandescents at the moment in the house because of the dimmable recessed lighting I have.

ANyone know if these will work inside domed (enclosed) fixtures???

If I was feeling flush I'd buy a couple to put in the light in the vaulted ceiling over my dining room table in a heartbeat. I'm sick of replacing that sucker... though an LED fixture that directed the light downwards would probably be a better investment.

Whilst it may be very expensive in conventional terms iit will last for years and save a lot of energy in that time. Add that up for hundreds of thousands and the electricity bill would plummet for many users. Also for companies where they have maintenance staff to change these they will save money as they will not need to be replaced so often. On a national basis that would save millions on oil importrs annually.

Thanks Reactual, great bulb life! I'm sure the price will come down over time as production increases. I remeber it wasn't that long ago that CFL bulbs were expensive but now now they are only a few dollars.

Guys, this is a very silly product. All you need is CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lightbulbs). I have CFLs in every single part of my house. A 9watt mini CFL from GE is equivalent to the light output of a 40Watt bulb. And the 13W CFL is slightly brighter than a 60Watt bulb. They cost $15 for a pack of 8 at COSCO. The light output is not only very pleasant but even better than incandescent in my opinion. Make sure you buy lights that say "soft white" or something to that effect so you don't get the ugly old CFL style of light (which looks like traditional fluorescent lights). Also I want to point out that Home Depot carries not only the spirally models but regular looking lightbulb CFLs. They also have spotlight shaped bulbs and they have just started carrying "dimmable" CFLs (yes CFL technology can be dimmable, it's just that most brands are not there yet). The moral of the story is get rid of all of your incandescent bulbs and stop scaring people with $60 novelty items. You can make a big difference today.

Eric

It IS a bit silly, why not use leds for applications they are better suited for? For example, very low profile installations. I await the led array whose transformer will fit in a standard junction box & be efficient enough to not start a fire, so that a thin platter of LEDs can radiate out in a 1/4-inch-thick 70-watt-equivalent room light.

Dimmable please.

Are we all forgetting the geek factor? We have formed an entire industry around our disposable income!

Do we really need speakers that cost more than the car? How about $800 phase change coolers for our OC needs?

Personally, I'd like to see one in a brick and mortar, so if it is as cool as it seems, I can go get more, instead of waiting another 4-6 wks.

I've replaced most of my bulbs with CFL about two years ago, and I haven't had to replace any of them since.

I also bought one LED bulb that had about 20 LEDs in it. It did not throw off the light it promised and worked far better as my daughters nightlight for about 2 months, until the LEDs started to go, and after the first went the rest did in quick order. Perhaps it left a bad taste, but I am not impressed with the LED bulbs compared to CFL currently.

One question though.
The only bulbs I have not replaced yet are the smaller socket bulbs that some of the chandelier fixtures use. I don't know the bulb size offhand, but hopefully someone knows what I am referring to. Does anyone know if these bulbs have CFL equivalents too?

To Jeff, you can find candelabra style CF bulbs here:

http://www.gaiam.com/retail/product/36617

and here:

http://www.bulbman.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=4595_4616

The thing I'm most interested in is light quality. I have quite a few CFLs throughout the house, but only in areas where light quality isn't necessary.

Now, these CFLs (and maybe I'm using the wrong ones) are better quality than ones I'm accustomed to in offices, but they are still not as good as incandescents.

Conceptually, I love the idea of LEDs as a replacement for incandescents. From the numbers I've seen, changing to CFLs or LEDs could cut total energy consumption dramatically. The effects these lights could have in the developing world are incredible.

The problem with any of these technologies is that if they aren't as good as incandescents, they just won't fly with most Americans. I'll tolerate a little flicker and less than full spectrum in non essential parts of my home and office, but it's hard to imagine sub-par lighting where I'm reading or working.

Has anyone seen any of the higher power LEDs in action?

Randy
randy@boxbe.com

Once again typekey is broken...

Anyway, Chris Taylor your $ to outfit a house with PV are way off. Usually the cost is between $15K to $30K depending on many factors. Payback is about 15-20 years and the system usually lasts 30-40 years.

Jeff, I have found those small-based candellabra CFL's at Wal-Mart and Home Depot.

The mercury contained in CFL tubes is a concern. The claim that LEDs don't produce the heat/lumen that a CFL produces would indicate that they are more efficient.

What you are paying for here is the longevity. I'm VERY interested in these bulbs for places that I tend to leave the light on 24/7 -- front porch, dark hallway -- or places that are difficult to access or fixtures that are difficult to open; again, the front porch light comes to mind. I'm glad to pay the premium to be relieved of the chore of changing bulbs.

LED lights can be made to be dimmable, however, the way it's done is by turning them on and off at various rates, i.e. making them flicker (really, really, really fast) So, while it's possible to have an LED light that dims, you may not really enjoy the effect of the flickering for very long in a home setting. Though if your home is more like a nightclub, dimmed LED lights might work out nicely for you...

I find it interesting that the 60 watt incandesent
bulb gathering dust in my drawer is rated at 800 lumens.

A comparable CFL burns 15 watts maximum.

Hmmm, let me see:

Should I buy 5 of the LEDs at $60 to $70 each burning 45 watts total to get 1540 lumens or two CFLs at 99 cents to $3.99 each burning 30 watts total to get my 1600 lumens?

By the way, I have had only one CFL burn out in
the last 10 years.

if one of the LED bulbs was to stop working, the remaining bulbs will still continue to function? - of will all 150 LEDs stop working requiring the bulb to be replaced!?

Without reading all the responses I want to make two points.

Without major advances in technology LEDs will never be as efficient as fluros.

A damn lot of energy would have gone into producing the "energy savers."

But as always the poor treehuggers are once again sucked in by the wiley marketers!

"But as always the poor treehuggers are once again sucked in by the wiley marketers!"

And where's your data on this?

Making LEDs isn't so energy-intensive when you consider that the end product is pretty efficient and can last easily for more than a decade, maybe two-three decades..

guys, I believe the extreme greek comment was in reply to the one gentleman's suggestion that everyone become outfitted with personal lighting devices instead of lighting up a particular area. The fellow's greek comment was taken by me as meaning the sophist greek, the if no one sees it does light fall on a tree greek. any decent undergrad philosophy course goes over this.

Can someone answer?

Some of my closets and basement staircases are too dark & the the outlet manufacturer has printed 60 Watts Max.

Is this an opportunity to increase the lumens by using a 30 watt CFL instead? Wouldn't this be safe?

This begs the question, if a CFL uses approx 1/4 the power of an incandescent, shouldn't that be evidence that we can use a CFL with a wattage rating up to an incandescent wattage rating?

This allows us to much more brighten dark underlit areas of the home of necessary.

@Will -- Yes, using a 30watt CFL in those light sockets should be safe.

Just make sure that you use a dimmable unit if there is a dimmer switch anywhere on that circuit (even if you don't use it), because the insurance company won't cover you if you use a non-dimmable bulb in a circuit that has a dimmer. One fire and your entire house could burn down, and your insurance company won't pay up.

Also, check your CFL and make sure it can be used in your type of socket. If this is in a recessed can, make sure that the unit is rated for that function -- same reason as above.

You may want to make sure that the color output is similar to that of incandescent, so look for bulbs that are "warm white", at a color temperature of 2700K. If they don't list the color temperature, I wouldn't buy them.

Also note that some of the more expensive units can have separate bulb & transformer -- the bulb-only portion can be replaced after 10,000 hours, but the transformer might be good for 50,000. This has a higher up-front cost, but will save you money in the long run.

Right now, the best brand of CFLs is Technical Consumer Products (TCP), which you can buy online from a variety of sites, many of which TreeHugger has already linked to.

here's something interesting, convert your car headlamps to high efficiency LEDs. this frees up 15 amps from your electrical system. this would allow most cars to use a water electrolosizer, otherwise you have to get another alternator.
most mercedes have min 120 amp alternators, i use 30 of that to power my water electrolysis of which the hydrogen i inject into my fuel line and the oxygen i put into the air intake, this increases the engine temperature and requires better cooling so i try to keep the revs low and i put a small turbine/generator to produce even more electricity, which in turn electrolysizes more water, my gas mileage has gone over 100 mpg

LED lights?

OLED wallpaper... :D

Couple things to remember on LED's

No matter what marketing tells you, they are not typically useful for 100,000 hours. It is true, they will burn for 100,000 hours+. LED's unlike other technologies don't burn out (and stop functioning) but they do depreciate-that is, emit a fraction of the light that they did when they are new out of the box. usually this depreciation is around 50% at 10k-15k hours. That, of course depends on a lot of factors, such as how well they are cooled (yes they do make heat and are very sensitive to heat) and how hard they are driven.

They don't typically have more lumens per watt than fluorescent. But One place they potentially have hope for the future is to replace directional accent lighting (like MR-16 and par lamps, etc).

I have found that they also work really great for night lights and prevent you from having to turn on bigger lights in the rest of your house when walking through corirdors etc.

I think LEDs are going to come around eventually. There are lots of cool things coming to market in teh commercial arena that function well as night lights-emergency lights, etc. One of the coolest is a handrail with leds in the bottom of it that give code required minimum lighting for commercial egress paths. http://www.iolighting.com/luxrail.htm

Problem is that it costs about 300$/foot.

We'll get there. In the meantime LEDs work great for cutting light pollution (and probably energy consumption) of billboards. have saved lots of energy on stoplights and keep people from risking their lives changing the lightbulbs on tall radio towers.

Mike

A question I have about LED lighting as an alternative to CFL might seem out in left field, but I still think it's worth asking. My parner and I have thought about using CFL lighting internally in our apartment, but she has an anxiety disorder which seems to be partially stimulated or exacerbated by fluorescent light. I know, for example, that she can't dally when she's in stores because she experiences gradual onset of anxiety. I haven't found much hard medical research on the matter, but it seems that some anxiety sufferers and their doctors have reported that the strobing effect of fluorescent light may be responsible.

I assume CFLs have the same behavior, and I shudder to think at the idea of paying money to fill our apartment with light that will make life unbearable for one of us.

There's a big problem with compact fluorescents (or any fluorescents, for that matter). Efficient or not, they break. Not when you use them, but when you throw them away, and that releases the mercury into the air nearby. Mercury vapor is the best way to get the stuff into your system (much more than when you poked around with the broken thermometer as a kid), and it's neurotoxic effects are cumulative and long-lasting. Now, sure, you can drop them nicely into the bag in your own kitchen, but that's not going to happen in the crusher when the garbageperson comes by, nor in the landfill. Those workers are the ones who breathe it, and if CFs take over, that's going to add up to a lot of bulbs. Plus, in the landfills, that's a serious environmental issue. Electricity generation produces some mercury, too (in coal), but the localized nature of it is a serious occupational hazard, and definitely something to consider as a mark in LEDs' favor.

Sanitation workers have they have enough they have to breathe already without adding toxic mercury. So don't knock LEDs

I am really hoping someone on here can help me out. I have emailed all sorts of lighting sites and eco sites to no avail.

I own a retail store and I am looking to replace the light bulbs in our track and recessed lighting with energy-efficient (CF?) light bulbs.

Our current track lighting bulbs are:
Philips Master line Halogen 75W 130V Flood 40
Our current recessed lighting bulbs are:
Cava halogen 50W 130V flood/Par 30

Could you please suggest an eco friendly alternative that will work in my fixtures and emit a flattering quality of light?

Thank you!

Just to let you know, there are several points on this post that seem to have validity. I happen to represent an LED residential downlight for 4” and 6” recessed can lights, fully dimmable, 75,000 hours with only 11 watts. Savings average about a $1.00 per light per month compared to CFLs. They have been engineered to output around 650 lumens equivalent to a 65W incandescent. Initial cost is a bear but most of the cheaper LED lights on Ebay and elsewhere are quick garage engineering to capitalize with poor quality LEDs. Guaranteed only to suck. Just like the cheaper CFLs they won’t last and will perform poorly. CFL are failing because they aren't meant to be recessed. Heat build up in cans reduces the life span. And without a recycling infrastructure, where's all that mercury, cadmium and PCBs (ballasts) going? The watertable!
It is true that LED lamps can get hot but it isn't the chips getting hot. It is the heat generated during voltage conversion. Most LEDs run on either 12VDC or 24VDC. You can't just drop down from 110VAC and invert it without creating heat. Now the trick to longevity is to keep the heat away from the LEDs. Most of the lamps I have seen don't have decent heatsinks. Therefore, poor performance. Quality engineering does cost more but calculate your wattage consumpt and lamp replacement over 25 years with 6 hours usage a day. Incandescent roughly 1000 hours. Halogens run about 7000 hours. CFLs average 10,000 to 12,000. Quality LEDs 75,000 to 100,000 with a 10% degradation beginning at 50,000 (not noticeable to most individuals, unless you're associated with photography, lighting or film) Color rendering index of 92. And by the way when researching LEDs for use, always ask where they measure lumen output, at the source or from the lamp. They can claim either for now and it makes all the difference in the world (up to half can be lost in conversion)
J.O., Randy, or anyone interested in more feel free to email me for further information.

jeff@dcnwa.com

to Luxbeauty

there is another option to consider for a retail store. If you are using par38 (4 3/4" diam lens) lamps then you could look at philips new master color integrated CDM Par38 lamp. It comes in 40deg output and will match or exceed the brightness of your 75w halogens. The main downside to the CDM lamp technology is that it takes a few minutes to warm up. this should be good for your store but it is not useful for residential use.

Hi J.O.,

Check out Eternaleds.com . They sell both PAR30 and Halogen light replacements. They even say they specialize in Retail stores and have a good comparison of your savings, should you switch to LED lighting - and don't require any new fixtures.

LED Replacement Bulbs For Home and Retail Lighting.

I've seen only one comment on the dangers of the mercury in CFLs.

The failed bulbs have to be disposed of at a special recycling site (not in the trash) or we cause more environmental problems than we solve by using them. If you break one in your home, you put yourself and your family at serious risk. Please don't underestimate the seriousness of this problem and please factor these environmental costs into your assessment equations.

- Several people have mentioned lights they leave on 24/7. No technology saves more energy than turning a light off. It's very rare that a residence needs a light on 24/7. Even when a case can be made for leaving a light on all the time, the use of a motion sensor can often address the issue. You certainly don't need to leave a hall light on all the time.

- Marketing hype aside, LEDs are less efficient than CFLs. LEDs may offer other advantages for some applications, so if you have a good reason to prefer LED over CFL other than saving energy then consider LEDs. I'm wondering how LEDs fair in cold environments. My refrigerator takes five 40-watt incandescent bulbs (three in the frig and two in the freezer) that I'd like to replace, but CFLs don't come on at full brightness when they're cold. They're not too bad at refrigerator temperatures, but they'd be pretty dim in the freezer for several seconds (probably at least 15).

- I don't see LEDs advancing by leaps and bounds to become the defacto lighting standard in a few years, or ever. LEDs are not a new technology. They've been around for decades and are not likely to improve significantly in their current form. The idea of a "bulb" made with 150 LEDs just seems like a hack to me. Expect to see something entirely different within five years like OLED panels. I think flat light panels made from OLEDs will be far better than any bulb in a fixture.

- 9 watts + 308 lumens + replacement for a 70-watt incandescent (has anyone actually seen a 70-watt incandescent?) = something doesn't add up. I'm looking at an n:vision daylight CFL that uses 14 watts to put out 800 lumens and they call it a replacement for a 60-watt bulb. Their warm white version puts out 900 lumens IIRC. That's twice the power consumption for three times the light output to supposedly replace a smaller incandescent bulb, and for 1/20 the cost of this LED bulb.

[quote]Wikipedia suggests that white LEDs are about the same efficiency as fluorescent lamps, so why is this a great idea? Why wouldn't I just use flourescents everywhere?[/quote]

Well, for one thing, LEDs don't use mercury, so recycling them is not a problem like it is with Compact Fluorescents.

Plus they use even less electricity - I think half - than CFLs. It's Wikipedia, come on. The truth (something Wikipedia has been accused of not possessing) is that LEDs are far more efficient than CFLs. They're more expensive, yes. But look at the price of CFLs 10 or fifteen years ago. They were about the same price as LEDs now. It'll come down.

When you see these bulbs on the shelf at Wal-Mart, that means they are ready and viable. Until then, I use CFLs. The difference in savings between CFLs, LEDs and incandescents at the power socket is huge, but the difference between CFLs and LEDs is not. An LED is only saving half, if that, of the already small cost of the CFL. Right now it only makes financial sense to use LEDs in place of CFLs at home in bulbs that are high and difficult to change, which if you are smart you wouldn't have anyway since a high up bulb means the ceiling is high,which also means you are heating and cooling a very large unused space. Right now I live in a house with a cathedral ceiling in the living room, foyer, 2 bedrooms and kitchen, and my utility bills show it. They are over double the utility bills in my last house, which was the same square footage but had regular ceilings. Soon as I sell, I'm going back to regular ceilings if I have to build it myself.

As a lighting designer there are different lamps for different uses. There are also other factors involved. Just a quick comment.
Incandescent work well when dimmed. I have a house full of them and we very seldom run the lights at more than 50% most times less. When I need light to clean its there instantly. The lamp life is greatly increased with dimmers , I have lamps that have been there 10 years. If you keep them dimmed before turning on they could last ???? years. It is the initial inrush of current that generally fail the lamp. The resistance of the filament increases as the temperature rises. Thus less inrush less failure, as well as not operating at 100%.

Fluorescent work well and produce a good amount of light per watt, the drawbacks are they can not be dimmed ( inexpensivly) switching them on and off many time a day kills the hour life. There cri is still not perfect, and the are very hazardous.

Led can soon be a major player as more people purchase and the design become better. I would say in the next 5-10 years we will see major changes in this lamp technology.

luxbeauty says:

Just to let you know, there are several points on this post that seem to have validity. I happen to represent an LED residential downlight for 4” and 6” recessed can lights, fully dimmable,[...]
It is true that LED lamps can get hot but it isn't the chips getting hot. It is the heat generated during voltage conversion. Most LEDs run on either 12VDC or 24VDC. You can't just drop down from 110VAC and invert it without creating heat. Now the trick to longevity is to keep the heat away from the LEDs.

I see LED lamps as a lighting solution for those who have no choice: no reliable or affordable power grid, like in Western Africa or rural regions in most countries. For them, lights fed directly by 12-volt batteries will eliminate the need of wiring the houses. AC voltage change from 110 down to 30 or 15 volts is not necessary. Countries without an energy infrastructure will be able to benefit from a low voltage, DC electrical infrastructure.

Portable compact batteries, deep cycle charged in various ways without an AC infrastructure on which one plugs a set of power LEDs on a heatsink hanging from the wall or ceiling would be more efficient and comfortable than gas or kerosene lanterns that require fire to light.

I think LEDs can be continuously dimmed by means of a variable current source through a transistor, which compensates for the voltage drop as the battery discharges. Once the problems faced by those who have no choice are solved, it will be possible to address the more sophisticated problems of those who live with an AC infrastructure that make CFL use possible, through accumulated experience and economy of scale.

I have news from my corner in the world: Sorocaba, Brasil.
We happen to have a supplier here, NeonLight, which carries a superLED of white light that delivers 150 lumens each at 700 mA and 3.5 volts. I am going to put three of them together to be energized by a 12-volt battery. My prototype should be able to illuminate as much as a 40-watt incandescent bulb and consume 3 x 3.5 x 0,7 = 7.35 watts nominally. I felt attracted by its 3 x 150 = 450 lumens announcement. Because this is a novelty and an imported item for us, it cost $20/unit, so I will pay $60 for the LEDs alone. Then I will need a heatsink, a 555 IC and a couple of power transistors to build a dimmer for it, and the prototype will end up costing me close to $100. However, with economy of scale and component aging in the market, production cost should go down to about $35 pretty soon. Considering its durability of 50,000 hours I think it is a good deal. If the dimmer is used wisely, this lamp could outlast a house. The time for LEDs has come.

$70 is expensive. Just saw similar bulbs for ~$18 on this site, plus discounts if you buy in bulk.

http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/all_led_bulbs?gclid=COnyuKidoI0CFQXklAodEGve2A

LED technology is the way to go. Bottom line is, over time it will save you money. You do have to have an ounce of creativity when using them. They are best suited for direct reading light and focus spots in the room. They really shine (pun intended) in indirect lighting situations. I have an office where I use a LED lightstrip that encircles my office in a groove about 12 inches from the ceiling. The ceiling was painted bright white thus offering a very pleasant, very bright, lighting arrangement. The LED strip was very expensive but outside of the computer and monitor in the office I require no power. The savings monthly is outstanding. I save about 30 USD a month from the previous lighting arrangement. In the 16 months I had this arrangement, I have two thirds paid for the lights. The mood is much more vivid as well. I am expanding to a new office and was told the same lights could be moved over there and I am considering putting them throughout the offices.

Leds are the way to go..it will be years before americans decide that they work..after the rest of the world is completly outfitted with leds..yes as usual we will be last in line..

While america invests in oil and coal China is investing in leds..

My whole house my outbuildings my outside lighting..and my tomatoes are all lit by led..what a total of maybe 300 watts..used to use that in one room..oh yes i have a 36 watt led in my coverd bridge..Emerald Green
my wife and her girlfriends treat thier beauty problems with red and blue leds..

Thier not just for flashlights anymore..

They are here to stay

Hugh

http://flowerforcer.com

I was very disappointed after receiving this LED bulb. This bulb does Not even come close to a 70 Watt incandescent bulb in Lumens or light out put. This LED bulb is more like a 20 watt bulb in Lumens. CLF cost much less and provide the required light. This is false advertisement on Tree huggers part!

I built a new office recently and installed about 50 of the CFL into cans in the ceiling, having bought into the environmentalist save the planet BS as well as wanting to save some money as well over the long term. Within the first 6 months at least 6 have failed and I have had to replace them. No dimmers used. Everything was installed by licensed journeyman or master electricians (not some hack employed by the Contractor who was trying to save a buck) Nobody ever said don't install these things in cans, neither the electricians or at the supply house.

The claim that these these CFLs will last for thousands of hours is just a lie.

White LED lamps are a cost-effective solution to rural area people without the benefit of the AC power grid. Many of them use kerosene lamps (oil lamps). Oil lamps are not cheap themselves; in the U.S. I see their price ranging from $10 (the very simple ones to $100 (the pressurized type). Improvised lamps may be cheaper, but they release lots of unhealthy smoke due to incomplete burning. Kerosene is costing $3/gallon average in the U.S. It is possible to build a 100-lumen white LED table lamp for about $10, including alkaline batteries, which will last a week if lit 4 hours a day. If you install rechargeable batteries and use a $100 solar panel recharger, the lamp and recharger will last 15 years! And this can be done today.

Come on, I have a better led bulb, much cheap price but more lumens!

USD$13 4o leds output 120 lumens

It looks like a normal bulb.
1). Meets California Energy Commission (CEC), Energy Star, and EU requirements
2). Power: 4W is equal to 25 W general white bulb
3). Efficiency of 75%
4). Universal input voltage range(85VAC to 265VAC)
5). 120-140 liumens
6). E26(110V) or E27(220V)
7). Life for 30,000 hours
8). Size: 64mm (D) *105mm (L) 9). Weight: 95g

I've seen many comments similar to, "Why the heck don't you just use CFL's? They're cheaper and they work just as good." etc...

As someone who suffers from severe migraines that are brought on by abnormal variations in lighting, (such as strobe lights, or a flickering CFL) I am always looking for an alternative to the classic CFL to save energy in my home and provide adequate lighting. If this means spending $70 for a good LED bulb, then so be it.

This is probably the biggest problem with CFL's, I've known people who have even had seizures triggered by a CFL being turned on. (And flickering slightly as it did so. Not good)

Hey, I am doing a science expirement, and need some opinions. If you could help, I would greatly appreciate it. Which is the best type of lightbulb, LED, fluorescent, or a regular lightbulb?

Well, Mr Please Help, which one is the best depends entirely on your definition of "best". They all have their strong points, so what is most important to you?

Maybe you can do a comparison to show the strong and weak points of each light.

A single mom put a CFL in child bedroom and it b roke , she called Home depot for info was told had to contact EPA . The officer came closed off te bedroom and told her need a specialist to clean it up due to the mercury at a cost of 2,000 dollars.
I say where is the savings.
Also CA is outlawing regular light bulbs for not friendly CFL . Where all the Mercury will go , beside in babies thru vaccines.

Best Lighting device: LEDs

Incandescent: derives light from heat, breakable, consumable, energy wasting, so much so that low-efficacy incandescents will be forbidden fabrication in near future (year 2012).

Fluorescent: breakable, poisonous, wastes energy on the ballast circuit, runs hot, in a short time vaporized metal deposits on internal wall and it looks old, requires voltage peaks to start fluorescence, has 120 hertz strobo effect. Useful life longer than incandescent. Not easily dimmable.

LEDs: efficacy equivalent or higher than fluorescent, better detail discrimination than halogen lamps at the same light flux, requires half or less energy than fluorescent, a simple filter can eliminate strobo effect, easily dimmable by pulse width modulation, due to quick on-off action it can halve energy consumption without perceptible loss of light flux, no need of rectification or wasteful transformation of voltage from solar or wind power, solid state, long useful life (more than 50 times fluorescent), low voltage operation, color from material not from filter, not easily breakable, requires no heat to light, contains no poison, flexible for architecture or art. Only problem is high cost, but that is temporary; it is decreasing as I write this.

Everyone has forgotten the mercury that CFL's have and the landfill effects on the environment when they are eventually thrown away.

There has got to be a better way.

ListedGreen

LED bulbs are better than CFL for the varios previous listed reasons. Section9 LED is leading the pack with by far the best prices now, way better than any other LED stores. Section9led.com I suggest you start buying them instead of overhyped(media+large corporations=profit) and short-sighted CFL.

LED Bulbs @ a cheap price? $70 is REAL pricey for a single light bulb. The cost of these LED bulbs is going down and will continue to go down. Virtually all the major lighting companies are looking to jump onto the LED bandwagon, so it should only be a few years until you start to see some LED light bulbs showing up in big box stores. We've seen this happen before with pocket calculators, PC's, and every other form of electronics. Just give it some time and the performance will go up as the price falls. If you want to try some LED bulbs at about the lowest cost right now, you can check out www.shop.donsgreenstore.com .

LED lighting is the future. It is just the matter of instant gratification which our society dwells upon that will delay the full infiltration of the bulb market. Very few people other than the seemingly small amount of informed citizens(like us:-)) can grasp the fact that spending a little extra now will not only pay big in your future but it could have a drastic impact on the power consumption of all the states if everyone switched over. I recently switched my whole house over to LED's and have no regrets. As for the $70 price for a bulb...that is a bit much. I just picked mine up for less than $30 a bulb depending on the model from this new emerging local company. NewNRGRevolution but I do not think they have a website yet. Now I'll just have to sit back and wait to see the electricity bill!

I have a problem with this technology once again like CF bulbs only being made in China.

I am damn tired of working hard and then having to pay my money which will end up in the pocket of some corrupt Chi-Com politician only to be lent back to Bush to fight a bullsh*t war on terror which only drives up the price of oil.

Let's make these bulbs here in the USA - keep that money in this country so we don't have to borrow it back from the Chinese.

CFL's pollute the Radio Frequency Spectrum with noise. Just turn your AM Radio near a CFL. Amateur Radio operators are finding the High Frequency bands difficult to use with CFL's installed in their homes. The manufacturers of CFL's managed to talk the FCC into letting them reduce the amount of filtering they had to include in the CFL's because of the costs involved.
I made my wife get rid of the CFL she bought for our living room lamp because it drove my radio crazy with buzzes.

Have not tested the LED's but since they do not require the noise-making circuitry of the CFL's they are bound to cause less noise, IF ANY.

NOW, read the WARNINGs about the MERCURY dangers of a CFL when being disposed of.....or did anyone bother to read the fine print?

NO CFL's will be installed in my house.....

Have a look at this website: I have these at home they are better that CFLs (MERCURY) and not as expensive as the ones you are taking about in this blog!!!

do you have a LED bulb that is equal to an 100W GE revel light bulb if so guied me to the place to buy one

Try to avoid "general illumination" LED bulbs right now. There are no LED bulbs that honestly replace a normal light bulb (globe style). The technology and cost of most LEDs do match CFLs yet, although they will in a few years. However, you can already replace your halogen track lights and flood lights with LED bulbs. There are a handful of honest websites out there that currently promote true LED replacement bulbs. Good luck.

Light Emitting Diodes were developed by British researchers in the 1950s, leading to commercially available red LEDs by the 1960s. Unless they have been substaintially overdriven, most of those 1960s LEDs are still glowing, though at perhaps only 80% brightness, depending on if they've been glowing 24/7 all of this time. In the 1970s, green LEDs were developed, and in the 1980s, yellow LEDs became viable. In the 1990s, the first high efficiency blue LEDS were made, leading quickly to the first white LEDs, which is an assembly of red, green and blue LEDs.
Since each of these devices puts out a narrow distribution of light centered on a single wavelength, even a "white" LED does not produce a full spectrum of visible light wavelengths, but your eye averages it to make it look white when viewed directly. Since may surfaces are selective about what wavelengths of light can be reflected off of them, the apparent birghtness of an LED lamp can vary widely, depending on the color of the object being illuminated.
To sum it all up, I've seen Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) that had a projected half - power lifetime of 100 years under continuous operation, but the drive electronics in most screw-mount assemblies is pretty cheap, and so likely to have an MBTF (mean time between failures) of 10 to 15 years at most.
And you should get yourself a "test" bulb to try in different locations before investing wholesale in this new technology.

Light Emitting Diodes were developed by British researchers in the 1950s, leading to commercially available red LEDs by the 1960s. Unless they have been substaintially overdriven, most of those 1960s LEDs are still glowing, though at perhaps only 80% brightness, depending on if they've been glowing 24/7 all of this time. In the 1970s, green LEDs were developed, and in the 1980s, yellow LEDs became viable. In the 1990s, the first high efficiency blue LEDS were made, leading quickly to the first white LEDs, which is an assembly of red, green and blue LEDs.
Since each of these devices puts out a narrow distribution of light centered on a single wavelength, even a "white" LED does not produce a full spectrum of visible light wavelengths, but your eye averages it to make it look white when viewed directly. Since may surfaces are selective about what wavelengths of light can be reflected off of them, the apparent birghtness of an LED lamp can vary widely, depending on the color of the object being illuminated.
To sum it all up, I've seen Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) that had a projected half - power lifetime of 100 years under continuous operation, but the drive electronics in most screw-mount assemblies is pretty cheap, and so likely to have an MBTF (mean time between failures) of 10 to 15 years at most.
And you should get yourself a "test" bulb to try in different locations before investing wholesale in this new technology.

Light Emitting Diodes were developed by British researchers in the 1950s, leading to commercially available red LEDs by the 1960s. Unless they have been substaintially overdriven, most of those 1960s LEDs are still glowing, though at perhaps only 80% brightness, depending on if they've been glowing 24/7 all of this time. In the 1970s, green LEDs were developed, and in the 1980s, yellow LEDs became viable. In the 1990s, the first high efficiency blue LEDS were made, leading quickly to the first white LEDs, which is an assembly of red, green and blue LEDs.
Since each of these devices puts out a narrow distribution of light centered on a single wavelength, even a "white" LED does not produce a full spectrum of visible light wavelengths, but your eye averages it to make it look white when viewed directly. Since may surfaces are selective about what wavelengths of light can be reflected off of them, the apparent birghtness of an LED lamp can vary widely, depending on the color of the object being illuminated.
To sum it all up, I've seen Light Emitting Diodes (LEDs) that had a projected half - power lifetime of 100 years under continuous operation, but the drive electronics in most screw-mount assemblies is pretty cheap, and so likely to have an MBTF (mean time between failures) of 10 to 15 years at most.
And you should get yourself a "test" bulb to try in different locations before investing wholesale in this new technology.

FYI, wattage is not a great way to measure light. However, it's something that we've been using a lot so that's why we're used to it.

Wattage = POWER consumption. LED's are highly energy efficient so it uses less power. Of course the wattage would be a fraction!

Lumens = amount of luminous flux. It's the "amount" of light that comes out of a light source and accounts for the weighting factor that our eye can perceive. Also, the spectrum has a lot to do with how bright we perceive something.

There are companies that are producing tactical-grade LED flashlights like Surefire (www.surefire.com). I have two with the same "rating" for lumens and the LED one "seems" brighter. I have one for a pistol that has a concentrated beam as well. It has a lower lumens rating but it's military grade. Why is that?

It's because a light bulb can emit a certin number of photons but our eye may only see 1% of it...or even 100% (think lasers).

Here are some reasons why a lot of people are switching to LED's (mostly for tactical purposes now - which people thought was impossible about 2 or 3 years ago):
1. it seems brighter and uses less power
2. it's a lot more durable. I've lost flashlights because I've dropped them and the bulbs exploded.
3. it's easier to get a more "white neutral" color
4. it's lighter
5. it has a longer "bulb" life

Not only do LED lights save electricity, but they also don't burn out and don't need to be thrown out. Thus, they're "greener" as well.

Why do I need to go and buy all those LED lights?

Hell, I'll just leave the LCD TVs I have in all my rooms turned on!

QUOTE: "Why do I need to go and buy all those LED lights?

Hell, I'll just leave the LCD TVs I have in all my rooms turned on!

December 15, 2007 3:34 PM | flag a problem "

But, wouldn't you eventually tire of the porn soundtrack...boom chicka, boom boom chicka, chicka chicka boom.

Take it form me, God, that humans are NOT meant to be in an environment lighted by LED light. The color spectrum emitted by LED bulbs is conducive to various ill states of both body and mind. Also, the LED bulb will flicker which is a further detriment to a healthful state of mind and body.

If you must use artificial light sources, stick with incandescent types.

Hi,
I am Jerry from DEL Optoelectronics (shenzhen) Co.,Ltd in china.
I am first come here,but i like this website. we are a manufacturer of LED lights. Deal in LED Tubular lights , LED Strip(Flexible / Rigid)lightd , LED spot lights ,LED lights bulbs etc..

your will get my present if your visit our email or email to us

Jerry
DEL Optoelectronics (shenzhen) Co., Ltd
http://www.del-opto.com
Email(Msn):Jerry@del-opto.com
skype:del.sale.d

Hi,
I am Jerry from DEL Optoelectronics (shenzhen) Co.,Ltd in china.
I am first come here,but i like this website. we are a manufacturer of LED lights. Deal in LED Tubular lights , LED Strip(Flexible / Rigid)lightd , LED spot lights ,LED lights bulbs etc..

your will get my present if your visit our email or email to us

Jerry
DEL Optoelectronics (shenzhen) Co., Ltd
http://www.del-opto.com
Email(Msn):Jerry@del-opto.com
skype:del.sale.d

My understanding is that LED light puts out full spectrum light, unlike CFL. CFL and FL cause attacks in epileptics and migranes in those prone to migranes - indicating a liklihood that they aren't good for ANYONE. Full spectrum light approximates natural light and decreases or eliminates SAD - Seasonal Affective Disorder, a depression caused by lack of full spectrum light (affecting many people who live through northern winters and have only incandescent or flourescent artificial lighting).

Obviously the long life, low energy use and health benefits of LED lighting are a positive thing. Once they are developed more, they will no doubt be more advantageous than CFL.

At $60 - $70 per bulb only those making above-average incomes will purchase these things. Same thing with CFL's which currently sell for $5/each at Home Depot here in VT. Also remember that CFL's and LED's performance and lumen output degrades by 30% at below freezing temperatures which is a big issue here in VT. Until they can make LED and CFL lamps cheaper and they give the same light output as incandescents at below freezing temperatures they will not be a big seller here in frigid New England.

At $60 - $70 per bulb only those making above-average incomes will purchase these things. Same thing with CFL's which currently sell for $5/each at Home Depot here in VT. Also remember that CFL's and LED's performance and lumen output degrades by 30% at below freezing temperatures which is a big issue here in VT. Until they can make LED and CFL lamps cheaper and they give the same light output as incandescents at below freezing temperatures they will not be a big seller here in frigid New England.

Most of these bulbs don't put out enough light. The only one I've seen is the Turolight LED bulbs called Turolux. Apparently they have a 13W bulbs that produces 700 Lumens... and its not just directional light. It's expensive at ~100.00, but its the only one that can do what it does. They also have an MR16 LED using 8W providing 320 Lumens. Very bright and practical from the standpoint of light output, it compairs to a 35W halogen. I'm using the MR16 and it doesn't flicker at all.

I have been trying various white LEDs and they seem far superior to CF or any other light for that matter, except for cost which will change.

However can someone explain to me how any light with a narrow spectral output at say 600nm makes white things look white?

How come none of you treehuggers have mentioned how harmful the CFL's are to the environment. LED's are well worth it in that regard.

I saw a good article comparing mercury in CFLs incandescents and LEDS at:
http://weloveleds.com/faq/safety.php

It seems that LEDs are the way to go, if you're concerned about mercury. The same site also compared CO2 output between different lighting technologies, and LEDs seem to already be the best option for that, and will keep on getting better in that respect.
Check out their CO2 output graph at:
http://weloveleds.com/index.php

Yes, if you're concerned about the mercury in CF, you will love the Arsenic, and Boron in LEDs.

On Feb 8th,, dB says, go to geek.com,, I did,, the cost of the 18 led bulb was only $4.99, (1.3 watt)

However, after buying 3,, I have to say,,my dog is brighter then these things,, ( for what is's worth, I've seen the same bulb, just today for $34.95 EACH,, yikes,, talk about profit,,
Long story short,, save your money till next year,
CREE has a single LED that puts out about 1000 Lumans,, but that was a prototype,, but these are coming soon to a store near you,,,
OH ! ! ! LED's are rated in MCD's, opposed to Lumens,
MCD= Millicandella's (sounds like someone I once dated,,) Next year,, maybe two,, but it will happen,,
(Oldlamplighter)

By 2012, when the ban against incandescent goes into effect (and if that ban stands in Congress and in court), LED issues should be ironed out to the point that we can choose between a good CFL and a good LED. I have a question, though. Some stoplights near where I live use LEDs. But some LEDs in their fixture have gone out. What do you do when you have an LED bulb, but one of the little LEDs goes out? That could be a major problem with expensive LED lights.

We have replaced all of the bulbs in our house with compact fluorescents, purchased low-water use, high efficiency dishwasher and clothes washer, traded both of our cars for higher efficiency models... read more about the greening of our livestyle with monthly tracking of the impact on our budget at

LIVING GREEN, LIVING WELL

Has anyone found a good source for residential LED bulbs that match the color temperature of incandescents? Perhaps something dim-able or that would fit in a 4" recessed can?

I have visited several sites and seen way too many bulbs that look like science projects. Just looking for something efficient that looks like a real product -

Cheers - Jamie.

I for one am happy to see LED light options for regular screw in fixtures.

The $70 price is way high, but we should soon see these more available and at far lower price points.

I will be buying when the price reaches $ 5.oo per bulb, and the efficiency is demonstrated as above florescent bulbs. I expect this to be within the next 5 years.

As LED bulbs come in a variety of colors, I expect that the color quality will be solved soon enough, perhaps by adding some red, some blue, and some green LED's into the same frosted enclosure to give us near the spectrum we see.

I have recently purchased two LED flashlights, a 3 bulb one for $1.oo and a 9 bulb one for $3.oo
Both flashlights are useful, bright and energy efficient.

With CF containing mercury and considered "harzardous waste" if they fail or are broken (call HazMat)-- I am certainly interested in LED in the future

Luxbeauty,

Here are some lights that might work in place of your Philips Master line Halogen 75W 130V Flood 40 (40 degree flood, link):

• PAR 38 lights at The LED Light - These 30 and 60 degree lights have 7 or 12 LEDs. The rated lumens don't equal the 940 of your Philips 75W floods, but the estimated light output is more than enough. I can vouch for their estimated output of the GB605W-CW.

• enLux R30 40 degree spot - These also have a lower lumen rating but the manufacturer claims they can replace 65W incandescents which is believeable. The "high CRI" neutral 3,500K variant gives a very flattering color IMO.

Is it possible that it needs less total lumens because those that are there are better directed than in an incandescent? Honest question.
February 8, 2007 4:14 PM | click here to report abuse flag a problem
Anonymous says:
========================

Yes. Lumens are not luminous intensity, candelas are. Lumens are candelas spread out over an arc of 1 steradian. The lower the arc, the lower the lumens. But that doesn't mean that the light itself is dimmer.

A 100w incandescant has 1700Lumens/360 degrees or roughly 4.7. The 10w led replacement only gives out 400 lumens but does it over 100 degrees, or 4.

All leds do is take a less intense light and focus it to get the same effect. Lots of light from an incandescant is lost going backwards.

Most people just simply don't realize that there are very few LEDs on the market that are capable of reaching normal strengths. The 60w equiv geobulb and the 100w equiv ecoled bulb are both very intense. Most 2w or 3w are not intended to be bright. But people are stupid and don't read and then through a hissy fit.

I've read a lot of posts on here that seem to think LED's are a stationary target. Some of the new high end LED's out right now (CREE XR-E Q5) are running 180 Lumens for 4.5 hours from just two AA's. The problem is these high end bulbs end up in high end applications like tactical gun lights, or camping equipment. When you can get 50+ bucks from one flashlight it's a hard choice to put 12 of them into one plain old table lamp.
The Future is here, along with it's prices.

I like the earthled bulb design better. They look more like a real light bulb. The price is really high though the replacement bulb for a 100w light bulb costs $99. It only uses 13 watts and last 50 times longer up to 50,000 hours so you can justify the cost but to replace every bulb in your house could cost thousands of dollars. I live in a two bedroom home and I counted 28 light bulbs I would have to replace. Price is to high for me at this time.

You can buy it out of China for about $6 per LED bulb with a 36 minimum order.
Jay

well there is the Haz Waste component of CCFL's.. the Mercury, that both LEDS and regular light bulbs don't contain.

I so wish that LED's could replace CFL's as well as incandescents, but there are two issues. The first is that the technology hasn't fully evolved yet as proven by their unsatisfactory light output and failure rates (and the fact that most come from China and break during shipment. Let's not even talk about the carbon footprint here). The second is our perception of what "light" should look like. We like our soft whites for general household lighting. And that's fine, it's what we've evolved into feeling comfortable with and it's a fact that feelings of well-being are directly linked to the type of light we're exposed to. I see proof of this all the time as product manager at the Alternative Energy Store (www.altenergystore.com). We used to offer a variety of LED bulbs for off-gridders (DC), but the return rate was huge because the light output is just not enough to be truly useful in a home situation. And of course if you pay $70 for a light bulb you darn well better love it. This incarnation of the LED may not be the one to revolutionize lighting.

Hi, I'm glad I came across this site. I purchased 4 of these through cyberguys for my cabin and they have been working great for the last 3 months. Lots of warm light and hardly stealing any energy from my panels. Buy em, there the best incandescent LED bulb replacement I've come across in my geeky tech travels. Now, time to find some LED's for the sailboat!

http://www.ccrane.com/geobulb/index.aspx

http://www.ecoleds.com/Index.html

Where do you guys get your info? You are way off: 308 Lumens is nowhere near what a 70W incandescent light bulb puts out. It is less than what a poor quality 40W (355 Lumens) bulb puts out (a high quality bulb does even better). A poor 70W puts out 830 Lumens. As for 18W CFL's: they are around 1200 Lumens. 308 Lumens fall around the poor 7-8W CFL range; Global Consumer #077 is a 7W CFL that puts out 450 Lumens.
Don't spend your money on this novelty night light.

In answer to some ones question, most of the cost is made up of the LED its self.

THe low efficiency is due to the heat build up at the P/N junction, and lack of heat sinking by the manufacturer.

Efficiency of LEDS is not under debate, its a matter of manufacturers harnessing the potential that is already there 1W = 100 lumen, check the cree website!

Good bulbs can be made, this one is poor

I'm considering an LED "bulb" like this mainly because I have need for a light that won't have to be replaced. I'm hanging a ceiling fan from an 18 foot ceiling with a scaffold and the lights for the fan are covered behind a shield meaning that I would have to get a ladder to change the bulbs out. It would be quite useful to have a light that I basically wouldn't have to worry about replacing.

CFL pose a problem if broken. The toxins within are very dangerous. At home upon a breakage cut off the AC wait 15 minutes before cleaning, use a damp paper towel and depose of properly. Greatest immediate harm children. They don't advertise these facts! Pretty green huh??

Break an LED and the only harm is to your pocketbook.

Batteries and CFLs should be deposed of properly. Commonly I wonder how many are taken care of as required?

The high cost is attributed to sapphire used in the production of LEDs. There is work being done to reduce the price. We will see an affordable option available in the next few years.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080717134601.htm

I am interested in buying several exterior ledlights. These are for security not decoration. I want the brightest available.

Why? They are to be placed high against my back walls and I do not want to replace them. The cost of replacemnet is higher than the cost of the bilbs.

Please direct me to a site for such.

On LED efficiency - The 120V AC LED bulbs I've seen range widely in efficiency (lumens/watt). So far one of the best I've seen is the GeoBulb (to be available 7/31/2008) which is supposed to put out 800 lumens yet consume less than 8 watts.

Charles Cameron mentioned CDM lights. I had never heard of these so I looked them up on the web. They are HID lights made by Philips. Look at the data sheet for the CDM-R111 and tell me how close you want to stand: "These lamps can cause serious skin burn and eye inflammation from short wave ultraviolet radiation if outer envelope of the lamp is broken or punctured. Do not use where people will remain for more than a few minutes unless adequate shielding or other safety precautions are used", "The arc-tube of metal halide lamps are designed to operate under high pressure and at temperatures up to 1000° C and can unexpectedly rupture..."

LED lights do not emit ultraviolet light. They also run cooler than incandescent and sometimes CFL lights too.

However, you can do much better than the light at the top of this page -- the light strobes at about 60Hz (like old pre-electronic ballast fluorescents) and its output is nowhere near 70W.

Try a MR-PL-WW for a good warm color 25W incandescent equivalent, or a CL-5 for a little brighter light. Not all warm white LEDs are created the same, I've tried several I didn't like.

There is a new product now: LED Fluorescent Tube, 1200 lumens at 15W, 1500 lumens at 19W. it can be widely used in supermarkets, factories and companies or some other places like that, it is said that 70% of the energy can be saved. and it's life is more than 50000 hours, Check this web: www.ledjyz.com.

Beijing Olympics 2008, proved how LEDs can replace normal lights and bulbs.

Faye,
I have seen the lights at www.lightenergydesigns.com It's mostly christmas stuff but I have some of their outdoor lights and they are BRIGHT! The price was lower than most websites but still up there.

You can buy it out of China for about $6 per LED bulb with a 36 minimum order.
Jay

This bulb works fantastically. I bought a sample from the company and compared with 4 other similar bulbs from some of the various commentors above (thanks for nothing). This bulb was not only brighter by at least 2 times but it also lasted, 2 of the other bulbs from other websites were completely dead within a month of using. My challenge was actually figuring out the crap from the good and this one beat out the rest by a mile. Now I'm going forward with 24 of these LED bulbs and a few PAR38 150 LED bulbs from the same place for my home. In the end, don't take my word for it, Test them yourself.

The newer third generation LED Light Bulbs are not using the LED clusters (using 150 leds inside the bulb) anymore. They are using more powerful and more efficient LED light engines using 1-5 LEDs. These newer LED Light Bulbs are much brighter and have a much better light quality. For example I saw a 13 Watt LED Light Bulb That uses only 1 LED and is comparable to a 100 Watt Incandescent. The Lumens is 900 which is much better than the older 2nd Gen. LED Light Bulbs out there. It's getting better...

This is a Georgeous website and its a lovely addition to my hom to have this in it. It gives lovely light off and I really dont want to turn the lights off:)

xxx Tina

a question please why or how do you use lumiun as a standard for light output, my understanding is you put the bulb in a sphere, light it up then take a average. If this is the case leds would have a very low lumiun output. Would it not be easier to try for lux which can be acurate.

ross g. Here's a great article as to what lumens lux etc. means and how LED's come into play. Yes, they are very low in lumens compared to CFL's but that doesn't mean they're not as bright...

http://www.eternaleds.com/Are_LED_Bulbs_Brighter_Than_CFL_Bulbs_a/222.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv-mr3VLW34

Heres a video comparing the three. The LED is pretty impressive, and the price will be dropping dramatically with recent innovations by Cambridge University(3 bucks dramatic).

If 9W of LED can replace 70W of fluorescent light I think this is very good. At my country, the light from LED still expensive price, but it is ok because LED can be more long life and low power consumption. Thank's for sharing.

go to sams club i bought three led bulbs for $14.99 they use 1.5 watts. they also have flood lights 5watts for about the same price. maybe this will help some of you.

It is a really good product, but as I know the heat is always the problem for 150pcs LED, becasue the PC cover the lamp, and the heat can only heat from the hole beside the E27 base. Some one has buy this lamp? and tell me the temperature. thanks

As per NYT, there is no LED equivalent of the incandescent 60W bulb that can output the same illuminiscance. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/05/07/no-entrants-yet-in-contest-for-60-watt-led-bulb/

The lux output of the bulb above is nowhere near a 70W incandescent.

I don't think this lamp would last more than 5-7 years...

The quality of the Leds used in this lamps is not the best and their luminance degrades easily with heat, voltage surges and peaks. (very common in any house electrical system).

Also the light quality would not be very nice just because of the standard 5mm Leds optics... wasn't design for long range illumination.

-L