9W LED Bulb Replaces 70W Incandescent

The $60-$70 price point is interesting in that I'd like to know how it breaks down. What's dominating the price? LEDs, power conditioning components, manufacturing? If this was known, it'd provide more insight into how quickly the price would drop. From what I remember of white LEDs, those buggers are expensive.

Mike

For comparison, an equivalent compact flourescent would be about 18 watts.

Also, the above bulbs output about half as many lumens at the 70w comparison. So you might actually need two bulbs to achieve the same luminosity of one 70w incandescent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_bulb#Power

How long would such a bulb last, I assume a long time.

Is it possible that it needs less total lumens because those that are there are better directed than in an incandescent? Honest question.

Is it possible that it needs less total lumens because those that are there are better directed than in an incandescent? Honest question.

From my understanding...no. It's just dimmer. Incandesants and CFL tubes throw light almost 360 degrees, LED's only throw it in front, hence the 150 LED's in that bulb. I'm not sure on why but they only go so far then, less ambient light maybe. LED's are essentially a bunch of tiny spotlights, there is falloff between the cones so less lumens...

I just pulled that from you know where, but it makes sense to me.

To Tim: LEDs bulbs last about 10-15 years.

I'm curious about the lumens issue, because another manufacturer quotes 36 LED bulb = 60 lumens = 25W equivalent.

That is kinda high price....

Basicially:
Incandescent bulbs: 22 Lumens/Watt lifespan: 1.5K Hrs
CFL: 50 to 100 lumens/Wat Lifespan: 6K ->15K hrs
Led: 32 lumens/Watt, newer stuff promising 50 to 100 lm/W Expected Lifespan: up to 100K hrs

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That bulb is one of the most expensive I've seen, and the it uses a lot more energy than other LED incandescent replacement (Factor that in over the lifespan)
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Here is a cheaper one:

1.3 Watt 110V LED Light Bulb (60 Watt equiv) $5.99

http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=18-LED-CLR&cpc=RECOM

They also have spotlight type LED lights, same price

for $70. I can buy apx 10 of these (with shipping)

Look to me -- inventive marketing. 308 Lumen for 9 watts is about 34 Lumens per Watts. Better than the average incandescent lamp but not that good.

I don't have access to all my documentation but my reference is usually the following:

Good quality -- 60 Watts Incandescent: 870 Lumens or 14.5 Lumens/Watts
Fine CFL of 13 Watts: 800 Lumens or 61 Lumens/Watts.

If I remember: I have 7 Watts CFL that produce 480 Lumens or 65 Lumens/Watts. These have a frosty cover and Instant ON quality. Very good.

LEDs are likely the future of lighting, however they just can't compete for now. This bulb is half as efficient as a CF bulb, 33 Lumens/Watt compared to 60 lm/W for the CFs.

I think we should all just walk around with LED headlamps on our heads (which would be powered by batteries that have been charged with solar power, of course). You only need to light up the area you are looking at, anyway, so why waste the extra energy to light up the rest of the world? :-)

If a light falls in a forest, and no one sees it, is it really light?

Though, headlamps might be tough when you're looking at someone else's face... Maybe diffusers could be encorporated into the headlamps that automatically dim the center of the light when it detects another headlamp?

But really, we should all just evolve night vision and be dome with it!

Turil: If everyone used night-vision:
1 - night vision still requires light, just a lot less of it.
2 - if everybody had night-vision systems: the IR light would basicly have the same blinding effects, except they would only be visible in the thingys. And it would screw up tv remotes...

Extreme Greek, eh?

I've read that the bulbs last 10 years "continuous". Meaning you could leave the sucker on for 10 years straight before it died. The price is uber-ridiculous but if I were building a new place or just purchased a new place, I would definately try to cost these into high-traffic areas of my house like the kitchen, where I tend to leave the lights on and the bathrooms. It would be nice to just let those areas be lit without worrying about wasting money and power. The price is a small one to pay for the guilt free ambiance..

Why would somebody fork out $70 for an LED light bulb that uses 9 watts..... to conserve hydro? well, maybe...but you would have to be pretty dumb to spend 70 bucks on an LED bulb when you can spend a few dollars on a compact fluorescent light bulb that puts out the same amount of light and uses about 13 watts of electricity... pay $68 more for 3 or 4 watts less hydro consumption? LED's are just not worth it for most of us.... the only thing they have proven good for is police & fire emergency lighting where their fast response, extreme brightness and low energy use make them ideal...

The price continues to be the problem with the LED lightbulbs becoming more popular. I love the idea, it's definitely the future...why does every idiot use the term "price point"? Same people who say "please advise" and "as per ___".

Just don't plug one of these things in anywhere around Boston, you'll cause a major bomb scare!!

X-Treme GReek, you say?

One thing I don't see discussed in the cost equations for CF and LED replacement bulbs is the cost of defect failures. I've purchaced about 10 CF replacement bulbs for use arounf my house. after 6 months to a year, 2 died prematurely. Yes they theoretically last X times (I forget X) longer than a $0.50 incandesant bulb, but because they have electronics, and they get hot, and they are made to be cheap, they fail. They are nowhere near a reliable as a tungten filiament. If you have to add %20 to your cost for defect failures, the comparison is not quite as good.

X-Treme Greek hey? I think you mean X-Treme Geek..

Unless this is an exclusive Greek verison of the well known X-Treme Geek..

LED's produce something around 28-35 units of light per watt. incandescents produce ~35. the best lightbulbs produce ~75-85 units per watt. LED are *not* an efficient technology.

I wish people would remember that metal halide and mercury vapor are MUCH more efficient than LEDs or compact fluorescents. It would only take about 4 watts of metal halide to put out 300 lumens of full-spectrum daylight.

Its promising technology, and I'm all for it, but better to spend the money in other power-saving areas I think. Sure, they'll last long after they are made obsolete by superior technology, and they use half to a quarter of the power as a 'long life' compact flourescent... but the installation and running cost to for a whole house of these just isn't sensible. Much better to use normal or long-life globes and invest in solar hot water and/or grid connected photovoltaic.

Still, bring it on!

I would agree that it is not a 70 watt bulb equivalent. Perhaps the company is trying to discourage overlighting, but they shouldn't lie about something like this. I know a lot of people pay no attention to the lumens produced by a bulb, just going off the old standard they know.

You can leave CFL's on all the time and they'll last years too. CFL's wear out at the starter. If you never use it, the phosphor will last but the bulb will get dimmer.. I have a 12W Earthlite CFL that's still going 6 years on. It's never turned off as it is used on a hallway.

The price for a 9w LED is ridiculous. I'll wait for the newer technology to come out and then it will be equiv. 90W led that uses 10W.I would want a DAYLIGHT LED version, not off-white or "cool."

My whole house is just about outfitted with CFL's. The cheaper ones buzz when turned on. I have at least 25 of them. Even the porch light is a CFL. They are 20W and I turn them off when I leave the room. I've paid about $ CDN 7 per bulb on average although the Earthlite on special in 98 was $ 15.

These are some crazy bulbs!

I really wonder how the light looks that is coming off of these. Is it a nice white light or is it blinding like most LEDs?

Wikipedia suggests that white LEDs are about the same efficiency as fluorescent lamps, so why is this a great idea? Why wouldn't I just use flourescents everywhere?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lamp_%28electrical_component%29#LED_lamp

Red and Blue LED's with a more focused beam is perfect for indoor hydroponic "tomato" gardens, as the spectrum absorbed by the "tomatoes" is more efficient with LEDs than HIDs, CFL, and incandescents.

NASA has even used LEDs for experimenting with growing plants in space because of more efficient consumption of power, and less heat production and as mentioned, near perfect absorbtion of the LED's spectrum.

The only thing they need are some killer tomato seeds from Amsterdam.

X-Treme Greek is spanakopitastic!

These are not that good and VERY expensive. I buy 300led 4ft sticks off ebay for $34 and they put out roughly 120watts of light (a bit more than a 100watt bulb using seat of the pants estimate) I use 3 of them in my bedroom and its as bright as daylight. 11watts consumption each :-)

2 factors. one placement. Critcal. the shadows are Harsher so I have one each on 3 ways so the light from each bulb crosses the others filling the room evenly and without major shadows.

Second led's are point sources of light effectively more related to lasers than light bulbs so you need 2 things ONE 120' angle led's (shaped epoxy heads) nd #2 SPREAD the bulbs. 300 bulbls in a circle useless 300 bulbs in 3 rows of 100 4ft long VERY effective and also spread enough that LOOKING directly at it does not burn a hole into the back of your brain :-)

Do this and they are wonders. I am replacing all the FLouro fixtures in my dad's business with these. for each 8ft dual bulb fixture I have to use 4 maybe 5 of these led bulbs but the power difference is MASSIVE the 8ft dual flouro's consume 192watts of power minimum while 4 of the led tubes will only consume 44 watts

doing all of them will cost about $900 with an ROI of 10.2 months saving OVER $100 a month on the electric bill. Figuring 80,000 life (white led don't last as long as colored ones) thats 12.1 years at 18 hours a day.

Savings in Electricity over the life of the bulbs over $14,000 dollars cold hard cash. PLUS the savings from having to change bulbs change ballasts going to th store to get them replace them PAYING someone to go up a 12ft ladder to replace them etc.. etc..

Plus the materials savings on the enviroment. at LEAST 50 8ft bulbs and and 40 4ft bulbs in that same 12 years plus 24-32 ballasts

Plus reduced fire hazzard (nearly no heat and no amps being drawn to speak of)

This also makes it theoretically possible to put a VERY modest sollar array on the roof and battery pack for the sole purpose of powering the lighting alone. eliminating power grid need for the lights at least and meaning we keep going if the power goes out (common where we are at least 6-7 long blackouts a year (long being more than 1.5 hours of so)

The Benefits are just massive and immediate.

NOW in a HOME the benifits are not so immediate or huge. a home uses far less power (he consumes 6.1 million watts a month) I did the math on a solar array to provide that much power. $89,000 :-) not cunting batteries or electronics ie just the panels needless to say we won't be doing that :-)

but LED lights ROCK. I light my room BRIGHTER than 2 300watt halogen floor lamps (thats 600watts) on 33 watts of power :-) nice :-) I might add a 4th tube just to make it brighter and still consume less than a 50w bulb :-)

They will last so long I will be able to pass them to my children and they might even last long enough to pass them to there kids :-)

NOW there is one flaw. Asthetics. I happen to like the sci fi'ish tube light look but for ambiance they might not be so hot. IE these bulbs here are HUGE and they further the problem by trying to be a omni source with a point source light so a lot of the lumens are wasted requiring far MORE led's to makeup for this. and then you still have the point source issue.

First if you going to do this you need lampshades. first lamp shades SPREAD the light so its less point source like (the difference is massive) and they soften the light making it warmer.

an LED bulb like this will actually appear tolight the room BETTER inside a lampshade than bare. and it eliminates the asthetics problem :-)

Turn off the lights in your kitchen :)

And what is the colour and shade of the light emitted?
All of these things sound good until the logistics come into play.
Give me biodiesel or give me death.

As they stand at the moment LEDs are not a realistic replacement for household use if your main consideration is energy saving.
Where LEDs currently become viable is where the other benefits of the technology come into their own. These are: Cool running, LEDs do not produce as much Infrared or Ultraviolet light making them suitable for use where heat or ultraviolet may cause problems (Artwork, bars, museums,etc.); Colour & flexibility, White LEDs are not particularlycost efficient, but having an a bulb which you can change the colour of using a remote controll? or set to slowly scroll through them? - again ideal for pubs & bars; size, because of their tiny size LEDs can be packaged in a wide variety of ways - Long thin strips, standard light fittings, flat sheets, etc. they can be used in a wide range of places where normal lighting just doesn't work.
Finally length of life: In an office environement having lighting that does not need to be changed every 6 months means huge savings in labour costs, and reduced health & safety risks of people climbing on ladders, tables, etc to get at the light fittings.
And for 'life span' some manufacturers are claiming up to 100,000 hours. However the general consensus seems to be estimated at "At least 50,000 hours" before they start becoming noticeably dimmer.
Wait 5 years and LEDs will be in the market at the same place as Compact Flourescent is now.

How many treehuggers does it take to screw in a $70 bulb? At that price, I would think none. Still waiting...

Spotlighting this LED lamp looks like wishful thinking. But LEDs won't be ready for prime time until they meet two key performance criteria: lumens per watt and color rendering.

The standard 60-watt incandescent makes about 850 lumens, a paltry 14 lumens per watt. A 13-watt compact fluorescent has comparable output; 65 lumens per watt. And the light quality (color rendering) is almost as good.

At 594 lumens (was 308 for the non-frosted version a typo?), the 9-watt LED makes 65 lumens per watt. While that is comparable with most fluorescent systems, it's not a significant advance that justifies it's price premium or substandard light quality. LEDS do enjoy a significant advantage in lamp life, and maybe that's worth it in some critical or hard-to-access applications.

Hopefully soon when they boost the lumens-per-watt and/or the light quality, we'll see the "killer app" that brings the price way down. Like what happened w/ red LEDs when they started using them in stoplights. Now if you use incandescent or fluorescent in an exit sign you're way off track. LEDs are the norm there. But anybody who has used white LEDs knows the light quality still lags.

TH

And to answer the first post, the price is due to the LEDs. You can buy an exit sign for less than $20. It comes with many red LEDs in a big plastic case, backup battery, and the electronics to run the LEDs, automatically switch between normal and backup power, and charge the battery.

White LEDs need the killer app.

Tt12s

Does anyone know if LEDs can be used with a dimmer switch?

My question would be is it dimmable? I am using 15 incandescents at the moment in the house because of the dimmable recessed lighting I have.

ANyone know if these will work inside domed (enclosed) fixtures???

If I was feeling flush I'd buy a couple to put in the light in the vaulted ceiling over my dining room table in a heartbeat. I'm sick of replacing that sucker... though an LED fixture that directed the light downwards would probably be a better investment.

Whilst it may be very expensive in conventional terms iit will last for years and save a lot of energy in that time. Add that up for hundreds of thousands and the electricity bill would plummet for many users. Also for companies where they have maintenance staff to change these they will save money as they will not need to be replaced so often. On a national basis that would save millions on oil importrs annually.

Thanks Reactual, great bulb life! I'm sure the price will come down over time as production increases. I remeber it wasn't that long ago that CFL bulbs were expensive but now now they are only a few dollars.

Guys, this is a very silly product. All you need is CFLs (Compact Fluorescent Lightbulbs). I have CFLs in every single part of my house. A 9watt mini CFL from GE is equivalent to the light output of a 40Watt bulb. And the 13W CFL is slightly brighter than a 60Watt bulb. They cost $15 for a pack of 8 at COSCO. The light output is not only very pleasant but even better than incandescent in my opinion. Make sure you buy lights that say "soft white" or something to that effect so you don't get the ugly old CFL style of light (which looks like traditional fluorescent lights). Also I want to point out that Home Depot carries not only the spirally models but regular looking lightbulb CFLs. They also have spotlight shaped bulbs and they have just started carrying "dimmable" CFLs (yes CFL technology can be dimmable, it's just that most brands are not there yet). The moral of the story is get rid of all of your incandescent bulbs and stop scaring people with $60 novelty items. You can make a big difference today.

Eric

It IS a bit silly, why not use leds for applications they are better suited for? For example, very low profile installations. I await the led array whose transformer will fit in a standard junction box & be efficient enough to not start a fire, so that a thin platter of LEDs can radiate out in a 1/4-inch-thick 70-watt-equivalent room light.

Dimmable please.

Are we all forgetting the geek factor? We have formed an entire industry around our disposable income!

Do we really need speakers that cost more than the car? How about $800 phase change coolers for our OC needs?

Personally, I'd like to see one in a brick and mortar, so if it is as cool as it seems, I can go get more, instead of waiting another 4-6 wks.

I've replaced most of my bulbs with CFL about two years ago, and I haven't had to replace any of them since.

I also bought one LED bulb that had about 20 LEDs in it. It did not throw off the light it promised and worked far better as my daughters nightlight for about 2 months, until the LEDs started to go, and after the first went the rest did in quick order. Perhaps it left a bad taste, but I am not impressed with the LED bulbs compared to CFL currently.

One question though.
The only bulbs I have not replaced yet are the smaller socket bulbs that some of the chandelier fixtures use. I don't know the bulb size offhand, but hopefully someone knows what I am referring to. Does anyone know if these bulbs have CFL equivalents too?