Zap! and Lotus Team Up to Create the Zap-X: 350 Miles and 155 Mph on a 10 Minute Charge

Vaporware!!

I am sick and tired of (even if functioning) vaporware such as the vectrix scooter that has been announced to be "coming soon" since 8 years (!). No more dangling carrots please.

It can be done simpler. Myself and a group of EV folks are racking up the miles on our E-bikes while the gullible public stands before GM's and other pieces of V-Ware such as this one and keep eating and using oil.

The car's specs are beyond the moon and will never be achieved in real life situations.

Hey ZAP:

Price the car under 30.000 bucks, give me a daylong testride (L.A. Santa Barbara and back) and if it really runs I'll buy it NOW!!
Oh yeah - what's the battery life?? How much for a replacement pack ;-)

Nice dream (ooops it's 8:00 already?? Gotta get up!!)

10 minutes to recharge a 350 mile range?
What sort of charger are they using?
If I guess that the car uses 20kW to cruise at 60mph, that means 20kW * 6hrs or so to go 350 miles, which is 120kw-hr.
To recharge that much juice in 10 minutes, I would need a charger that could supply 720kW. My home electrical service can do, what, ~25kW?
Am I missing something here?

Sounds like they are jumping on the Capacitor Battery bandwagon,
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/03/eestor_capacito_1.php

Still, I don't mind these concept cars flooding in. Too many for the big car companies to squash and there may be a couple that actually get to market.

The press release is saying that this is an agreement to do engineering feasibility studies on an award winning "platform." Key features are drive by wire (motor on each wheel), and advanced "battery management" which sounds like software stuff. There is no reason that super capacitors and batteries can't both be deployed as long as the software is up to managing it.

Interesting that Lotus seems to be going to go-to firm for boutique electric vehicles. Remember that they provide the body/chassis for the Tesla roadster.

Eric,

I'm of the same mind. Either their battery is quite wussy and it has that range by recharging via an on-board ICE or you're installing your own power substation to charge the thing.

Mike

It sounds like the drivetrain of the PML Mini QED:

http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html

Similiar mileage and horsepower plus Zap did speak about a possible ICE range extender in there press release. So the concept is feasible based on the PML Mini QED, but what about the price?

I would love an electric car especially one that looked cool and didn't look like a prius

> To recharge that much juice in 10 minutes, I would need a charger that could supply 720kW. My home electrical service can do, what, ~25kW?
Am I missing something here?

There's another option: two batteries. Keep one charging at home while the other one drives the car. Then come home and swap 'em.

Don't have any information on this, just a guess.

These guys are just looking for buy out money from large car manufactures. They’re hoping the large carmakers feel threaten by the “vapor” plan enough to offer cash to cease development. What we need to do is, stop buying or leasing gasoline-powered cars for a year to send the auto industry a clear message. Loss of revenue is the most powerful message the auto industry will respond to. But before they put out any electric, hybrid electric or fuel cell cars, they’ll lower their prices and offer incentives. They’ll try to off load useless technology. The oil companies will also lower the price of oil in fear their oil infrastructure monopoly would disappear. Every time the President talks about Hydrogen Fuel Cell technology OPEC lowers their prices. It’s not going to be easy, but successful boycotts never are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgxaKWqUbXQ

How fast is 155 mpg?

[Corrected, Thanks Bob! ---Jacob]

Finally an electric car that is not a 100g's and does not look like a breadbox.

Hey all nay-sayers just keep it to yourself, nobody needs your unconstructive doom and gloom.

I have a Zap dealer down the street. They are moving product.

They, and every other manufacturer, are hobbled by the US regulatory environment. NOT conspiracies, NOT oil cartels, NOT evil corporations.

It's simply too expensive to go through the process (See CommuterCar.com) or the car exists and is safe outside the US but not inside (See Smart Cars) . They are safe for Clooney and Europeans, but people allow our lawmakers to keep us out of them.

People need to start realizing there is a cost to regulation. If it costs millions to navigate the maze, or if there are over the top rigid methods for making the passenger safe, then the cars won't come.

What's great is, even with the regulation, capitalism is great enough to overcome it, and products like this will make it. And I hope they make a mint doing it.

This is total vapor. Zap doesn't make anything that goes over 40 mph, or less if you want four whole wheels. They have announced plans not for a car, but for a feasibility study. Then they show a picture of a car built by someone else.

The only serious electric car company is Tesla.

The big three will talk and talk about electric concepts, but understand simple business. They would never in a million years introduce the product that undercuts their enormous existing gas-car business. How would that benefit them?

Nothing will change until a separate company introduces the disruptive technology and people move their money.

The battery is probably either the Altair nano battery, which has apparently been produced by China for a year, or one of the other similar technologies. These can be charged almost as fast as you can pump them.

I also just estimated that the energy storage would be around 120 kwh. To charge that in 10 minutes, you sure couldn't use household circuits. I'm going to guess that they have a 10,000 volt charging station that can pump out 70 amps. I've seen systems like this - they charge up from the grid and then can dump out a burst of power.

But a pretty scary charging system if that is what they are considering.

I'm amazed ZAP is even being discussed seriously. ZAP has a long history of making false claims and issuing press releases to move their penny stock. It's up 30% since this vaporware announcement. I guarantee you they are issuing new shares to management and creditors. They have never manufactured anything. They describe themselves as a "portal." Their small development deal with Lotus allows them to flout to the world that they are building a car with impossible specs to continue to pump their stock. Check out their ticker at ZAAP.OB (they were delisted) and their website at www.zapworld.com. How can so many bloggers and journalists take them seriously for one second?

Actually, I can say that this sounds very similar to the nano-lithium or aluminum-ceramic battery types that have been talked about by the likes of AltairNano and EESTOR.

There's also a Finland company called EuroPositron that has an Aluminum Ceramic Capacitor as well.

Hell, EESTOR mentions they could get 500 mile range on theirs.

I know it all sounds too good to be true, but I been looking at this stuff for months.

_

As for the power recharging, I'd imagine you'd need a personal set of batteries at home.

For storage area, Just make it flat and long.

To pay for this added expense, could have some way to sell off the power at peak times of day.
And then recharge when it's likely to be cheapest.

_

Tesla as I remember, they have their own "quick chargers" set up for theirs.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/tesla-roadster.htm

And thats using "normal" lithium ion batteries, that are no different that those used in laptops.

Using NanoLithium Batteries, like those availible with AltairNano would obviously provide a performance boost over that.

The 10-minute recharge they quote is based on a custom 480-volt charger, which of course is something that would only be available in places with an industrial electrical service. Realistically - this would likely happen with fleets who could afford the costs associated with the charger and electrical service (not cheap), or eventually in the developmen of public infrastructure akin to gas stations. Either way - not possible in the remote future in home situations.

Sounds great - convenient right? But one of the primary benefits of the electrification of vehicles (primary, not sole) is the usage of off-peak electricity to charge. By creating incentives (or at least making it convenient) to charge when people are out on the town during the day - that argument is moot. This could create significant strain on the grid having large numbers of vehicles charging at once during peak hours.

It seems like the recent hype around quick charge times is mostly slick marketing - not very practical, quite possibly vapor-ware, and certainly counter to many of the other benefits promoted by PHEV supporters (including myself).

-Matt

It would be awesome if somebody could come up with something for us petrol heads with conscience.

Granted, it might not be ready anytime soon, but.............I can imagine this happening about 103 years ago....."Hey Orville...Wilbur......give it up dudes! You expect to get that thing made of bedsheets and lumber to get off the ground carrying you AND that metal brick? Come on.......get a horse!"

Eleven years later was the birth of ariel combat, thirty some years there were trans/intercontinental flights in METAL airplanes. Sixty and man was in space......seventy on the moon with rockets and FUEL CELL powered space craft........

What would have happened if O and W (and their contemporaries) affected the attitudes of some here?

Like what TheTallGuy says: Swap a rack of fresh batteries with depleted ones, like a bar-b-que propane tank.

Wal-Mart and the like have large enough distribution, parking lot space, and rooftops (to solar charge such a thing), and people won't worry about being 'stranded'. A universal battery pack(s) could be swapped out like a ten minute oil change while you wait (or for Americans, while we shop). Used batteries can be properly conditioned to extend their life cycle, and proper recycling can be centralized. The cost of replacing expired battery packs could be figured into the "fill-up" to avoid a huge bill to replace them all at once. Etc.

Morgan says that Tesla is the only real electric car company. Except they do not have a car that is currently for sale. Tesla is just as far as wrightspeed motors they have a prototype with "pre-orders" and no word yet on DOT certification. At least Zap is selling product

DO I see tail pipes in the picture? Phony?

I think ppl are making too much of the charge time claim. I believe this WILL be a best case scenario having the proper infrastructure (i.e. fleet use) but the average consumer will still required a greatly extended charge time. In the short term this will also alleviate concerns of stressing the electrical grid durring peak times. You'll still 'plug in' over night but it's better than the alternative.

I don't know if anyone is reading this thread any more but to clear up a bunch of misinformation and wild judgments:

- The 10-15 minute charge of the car battery is accomplished via 3-phase 480volt service. This is not something typically fed to residential-only neighborhoods. So, as designed, its application would be useful at say, a Starbucks, where you juice your car while you get your coffee. Or, imagine, a gas station. Fleet use as well but I doubt there is much of a fleet future for the Zap-X with all its Lotus cool. But this is not vaporware and would be rather easy to add to a gas station. Its just heavy gauge wire, breakers, and drops.

- Charging at home via a 2-phase 220-volt service (like an electric clothes dryer) is certainly doable and will likely result in a full charge from zero in 6-7 hours. Good for overnight charging and utilities are introducing reduced rates for this use since they have all that unused capacity at night.

- But all of the judgment based on these extreme conditions is a waste of time. Very few people drive 250-350 miles every day or even continuously. Most will drive less than 50 and consequently may only need 15 minutes from their own home service to top off the batteries. The latest application of L-Ion batteries to the cars is not vaporware, its here. I drove one and have a good relationship with some of the makers and their engineers.

- 2007 is the year that the EV starts killing its old golf cart chains in my view. Albeit in small quantities, they are here from Tesla, Phoenix Motorcars, and Zap! plans to join the crowd. There are quite a number of others that are in earlier stages but it is good to see the ingenuity bubble up.

- Production quantity is something someone touched on and that is one of the key issues. Tesla plans on truly entering production - meaning building vehicles for quantity that triggers all sorts of issues and regulations. Its the "hard way" but has the greatest hope of making a difference in what people use. The next product will be a sedan that will obviously appeal to a broader market.

- Phoenix Motorcars releases product this year but I think they are holding back from going into full production yet. They are closely held so we will see. The whole industry is evolving rapidly now.

- Zap! may stop short of production as well and ship limited runs. But hiring Lotus was a shrewd move that will lend credibility to the plan.

- Regulatory hurdles are immense as mentioned in one post. At first, the sheer cost is tremendous. In part because they take fully built vehicles and keep smashing them into a wall. (And then throwing them away.) How many times you have to do that just depends on the results.
That is in part, why so many makers of EV products have either stopped short of anything or stayed under the regulatory wire by sticking to 3-wheeled or low-speed vehicles.
I don't think all the regulatory hurdles are "innocent". The big automakers probably see them as an effective deterrant to any "upstarts".

- And selling cars that are in part or even wholly manufactured elsewhere by someone else is not exactly a new concept. The big 3 have been doing it for years. Its a smart move for a younger company without billions in cash. Why reinvent the wheel when you can buy one and improve it?

After all, that's really what this is all about.
Take the ubiquitous automobile and modify it so it no longer has to have that clunky, heavy, oily, noisy, dirty, polluting monster inside that requires us to continue to purchase oil from unstable parts of the world and pollute the planet.

The maintenance on a combustion-engine vehicle is an enormous waste of time, money, and resources when we know there is a better way.

Its time to stop the whining and entitlement and get behind our American entrepeneurs.
When they come up with a product that reasonably fits your actual needs and budget, buy one. I placed my order this year and can't wait to show everyone we don't have to remain stuck on the old system.

And I don't even care if the only color is black! ;-)

As long as the greenhouse is reduced, I am for it! Couple of things I would look for as a buyer are:

Cost of the vehicle
Time taken to maintain it
Emissions
Parts available
Servicing
After sales support

Thats all I need to be convinced for, folks!

- Kathy
Wholesale keychain

Not enough horsepower. What about those of us that need at least 12,000 horsepower? And a top speed of only 155 mph? How can I get anywhere moving slower than sound? Ridiculous.

I would buy this car in a Boca Raton minute! period. This is exactly what my wife and I are looking for. We would be the first in line when Zap is ready. How do we get on their waiting list?

Ugly, not sexy at all.

People would need a special charging station if to make a full charge under 10 minutes. for home perhaps 16 hours / 8hours that's the best guess, I am not energy lose in electric torque conversion and other energy lose shit

New Lithium Ion Titanate Batteries like the ones offered by Altair Nanotech can charge in as little as 10 minutes, and give these performances stats, and actually their batteries are good for 15,000 cycles or better,more than ten times the best battery technology available. These batteries will outlast the car! And yes, the power substation is the problem. You would need a FAT plug to cram the current into this baby in a short period of time. But actually, this is an infrastructure item that is easily created. And how many people need to charge their cars in 10 minutes to drive another 350 miles anyhow? (advertised charge distance on this car). You could probably get a charge into this thing with a 220 plug in 3 or 4 hours.
On the price: $60,000 is cheap to do what this car will do.
All the technology is possible, but I'd like to see one on the road!

Murphy's law: if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. Don't pay the $25000 reservation until you see this wondercar on the streets.

Zap is a scam. Search Google for the Wired article on their ongoing schemes. Don't miss the illustrations, they're priceless. The LA Times also did some good coverage recently.

Don't be fooled by sites that excitedly parrot Zap's press releases about bogus products. And, most importantly, don't "buy an exclusive dealership" for $100K - you'll simply lose your money.

No matter what. Somebody will try to knock u down .the only reason they do this is because they are jellous that they didnot think of it themself Bill says.