Survey: Incandescence vs Fluorescence ?

We've had absolutely no problem with our florescent lighting...in fact, they are brighter (nearly twice as much so) than the incandescents we previously used, while using far less energy to achieve that brightness. As for color, we haven't noticed the difference. And the best bonus of us is more money in our pockets month after month.

I really do think it depends on the brand of CFLs that you buy. Personally, I like the white incandescent lights and we've been buying those for years, as opposed to the yellow incandescents. When I decided to make the switch to CFLs, I bought all my lights at Walmart (you know, the special they've had this year). Well, they were really blue. I mean, extremely blue. So blue, my wife freaked when she came home. I ended up using them for our outdoor lighting. The problem is, I can't find ones with the right coloring--who wants to drop all that money just to experiment. So, we need to find a way to make the color issue more transparent to the consumer, because it is an issue.

While I'd prefer that writers who address important ecological issues be accurate, I have to admire the poetry and humanity of his approach! Too bad he didn't talk about the new fluorescents and how they look warmer, or even offer yet another alternative. So often we believe that everything is either/or when there's usually a "maybe" or "both" that can be achieved too.

Have found that the 1/2 second delay is still there, starting to compile a list of "Instant On" vs Delayed lighting at http://www.dabblings.net/gpage4.html. Sometimes the bargain stores carry the better ones, sometimes not.

I thought the piece was spot on. Anyone who can't tell the difference between incandescent and CFL is either seeing what they want to see or is not very observant.
And I use CFLs.

"Anyone who can't tell the difference between incandescent and CFL is either seeing what they want to see or is not very observant."

Well, different people are.. different.

some people are really bothered by CRT monitors are low refresh rates while others don't even notice it. Some people see some light flickers while others don't. Some are very sensitive to light color while others aren't.

Personally, CFLs are 100% fine for me.

Living with someone who has anxiety problems, I've learned that most people who have anxiety issues (including people who have anxiety alongside their depression) can see the flickering of the CFLs. We've switched half of our bulbs to CFLs... they minimize the flickering and provide "Instant ON", because the bulbs we've purchased that said "Instant ON" still have a .5 second delay.

The two places that we can't switch over are:
X11 controlled lighting. The mini-ballasts in the CFLs draw too much current when they initially light... Most X11 sockets can't handle this.
Dimmer Lights. We rent our home, much of the lighting around the living area is on a dimmer switch that is ONLY dim-on, dim-off (none of the click-the-knob to turn on/off). The noise coming from dimming CFLs sounds downright dangerous!

I primarily have CFL's throughout my house. I got sick and tired of constantly changing light bulbs(and environmentally as well ;) ). but, I still prefer the color of GE Reveal bulbs, the bluish glass one. one a side note that I these CFLs have been running in my house for about 3-4 years without a hickup. Can't really say its time for newer and better ones, because that would mean having to dispose of my current ones that are "working".

I'm one of those who is really light-sensitive and I hate the way the CFL's make me feel.

When I had my office green biz certified, I swapped out my lightbulbs. I prefer to just keep the light off as much as possible. The light is awful.

I really wonder how some people can say there's no difference. You *must* have some better brand of bulb than I've tried. All the ones I've used are off-color, and have subtle shadow flickers that really bother me. The ones I have also don't light the room as evenly. My porch light is definitely not as bright as the package said it is supposed to be.

Anyone find that switching to a particular brand solved these problems? I like some recommendations.

LA: I use Philips Marathon bulbs from home depot, and find the colour OK, can see no flickering, and they go on quickly. But everyone seems to be different!

The cheapo CFLs I got at Home Depot (iSomething brand) come in several versions, with different color temperatures. The coolest is absurdly blue, the warmest gives off a horrible, gym-like light. It seems obvioulsy discontinous spectrum to me, which is very off-putting in person and difficult to color balance in photography. They also take several seconds to come to full power.

As the previous poster said, it's frustrating to face a potentially fruitless, expensive search for a CFL with aesthetically decent light.

Hey TH,
Can you give readers some advice on who's making the warmer, yellower CFLs and where they can be purchased?

THEY STOPPED PRODUCING DIMMING CFLs.
f**k that noise. so god damned f**king annoying.

color reproduction has gotten much better, but cfl's still emit in only a couple of very narrow spectrums. incandescents emit across much broader swarths of spectrum. i'll gladly take any test, so long as i can choose what i'm looking at under the light, and tell you to shove your "cant tell the difference" where it belongs.

The problem isn't the color - that has been fixed - its the dimming. I want to replace all the 60 watt bulbs in my recessed lights (I have 14 of them to replace) - but they are all on dimmers. Every "dimmable" bulb I have tried only dims to around 20%. Put four of them in our family room and try to watch TV at the lowest setting....you'll go nuts - it is WAY too bright. They need to dim all the way down - not sure if it is even possible. So, I'm waiting for LEDs. Hopefully they can dim below 20%.

God, I would change every bulb in my house in a heartbeat if they just dimmed down to like 5%.

I'm with the posters above: I've tried a couple of brands (GE, Phillips) from Home Depot and have found both the several second delay and cooler light temperature even with the "warmest" available bulbs.

One other thing I've also noticed is that the CF bulbs shaped like traditional incandescent bulbs provide slightly warmer light, but generally are not as bright when compared to the spiral shaped CF bulbs.

Any specific recommendations for warm colored CF bulbs with quick on time would be greatly appreciated. As one poster noted, experimenting with different (unsatisfying) brands is both expensive and wasteful.

I felt the writer was a bit biased against CFLs and hadn't done all his homework (you can get bulbs that don't look like something from outer space, although personally I LIKE the look). Yes, there's some color difference, but are we all so rigid that we can't take a little change in our lives, especially when it involves a change for the better for something beyond ourselves? The first CFL I bought I put in my home office, where I spend at least 10 hours a day, and I love it. The slight difference in color doesn't bother me at all, and I'm happy knowing I'm using less energy and helping reduce greenhouse gases. Yes, I'm waiting for LEDs too, but until then, I'm using CFLs where they are appropriate and using solar-powered lights as well.

So far, I haven't seen a CFL that I could stand having in my livingroom or bedroom, but I haven't really checked in the last year or so. Perhaps it's time to take another look, because I'd really like to find something more efficient.

I don't see why LEDs are going to be any better. The white ones work via florescence too.

I've been replacing my incandescent lights with CFLs as they burn out. I've tried a few different brands... The ones I bought in IKEA were enclosed in a rubbery glass sphere--i was extreemly dissatified with them because the light they gave off was blue colored and not as bright as what the box said would be. They also took a long time to turn on.

I've also tried the Philips Marathon ones, which I am extreemly satisfied with. They turn on right away, are brighter than the equivalent incandescent, and give off the same quality light. The only thing is that they stick out of the top of my two bedside lights; the spiral and plastic base makes them taller than the shades (but I’m not particularly bothered by that). The trick to getting the right color is to look at the frequency of the light on the side of the box. The blue ones give some people headaches and are said to be garish, but the warmer colors have a pleasing effect. Look on the outside of the box for a frequency of 60Hz, and you won’t be able to tell the difference. This applies to fluorescent tube lights too by the way; I have some on the underside of my shelves, and they look warm because they’re rated at 60Hz.

Let's face it, some of these CFLs make your home look like a dirty, nasty porn. That's not healthy. It's not about changing your lifestyle to do what's environmentally right (most people here want to do what's right), it's about getting the right one. People need to be able to look at the CFLs and choose the light that fits their preferences. If some companies are better at it than others, then that's were the money will go.

I've swapped out my incandescents for CFLs everywhere I can. I've got a couple dimmable fixtures that still use incan. I've found the delay a little annoying, but I can live with it. The color seems generally fine to me.

One thing that helps is painting with the right color paint. I've used Benjamin Moore Ecospec "Chantilly Lace" OC-65. It's very similar to BenMoore "Superwhite" which appears warm white in almost all standard lighting spectra. The only thing that doesn't work well is standard LED which makes everything look blue.

I agree with the other poster about the IKEA CFLs with the rubberized coating. They're awfully dim and they seem to give the bluest light of the CFLs I've installed.

Has anyone seen the LEAF lamp from Herman Miller? It's way too expensive, but it has an adjustable color LED array that is very pleasing.

How many people know that fluorescent light bulbs CANNOT be tossed in the trash like incandescent bulbs?

I'm looking at a 100W "ECOBULB" produced by the FEIT Electric CO., made in China right now (I bought it at a Walgreen's drugstore); on what appears to be the "back side" of the packaging, there is a notice in TINY font (actually in my opinion, a micro font) on the bottom right hand corner that reads: "Hg - LAMP CONTAINS MERCURY", "Manage in accordance with Disposal Laws, "See www.lamprecycle.org 1-866-326-BULB".

Bottom line - the public needs to be educated that while switching from incandescent to fluorescent is energy saving, the risk of Mercury pollution may actually be exchanging one environmental nightmare for an even more egregious one.

Mercury pollution--

A CFL thrown into the trash at the end of its useful life has contributed less mercury pollution than its incandescent equivalent.

The average American power generation mix is 40-50% coal-fired, and this creates mercury emissions. The extra mercury emissions created by the 4x energy requirement of the incandescent turns out to be greater than the amount of mercury present in the CFL lamp.

It is better, of course, to recycle them properly, but throwing them in the trash will not worsen mercury pollution.

"More important, incandescence operates on the red, or warm, end of the color spectrum. Fluorescence works at the opposite end, with cool blue."

That's not true. The spectrum of fluorescent light depends on the mix of phosphors in the lamp. The color temperature of a tungsten filament corresponds to its actual physical temperature, since it is a black-body radiator. Fluorescents come in a variety of color temperatures because different mixtures of phosphors can simulate different temperatures of white light.

"Fluorescent light coats surfaces coolly like ash, looks pale when dim."

It helps to understand why fluorescents give off "flat" light. The fluorescence of any one phosphor will be strong in one wavelength, at the expense of others. Combine two or more phosphors, and you get what the eye perceives as white light. The more phosphors you add, the more you lose the efficiency advantage. Thus, most manufacturers stop at three.

"Anyone who can't tell the difference between incandescent and CFL is either seeing what they want to see or is not very observant."

This is half true. The ability of the human eye to perceive deficiencies in color rendering is relative. When I walk at night, I look at porch lights and try to guess-- incandescent or fluorescent? I find I guess right only about half the time. The light in my kitchen looks just fine at night, but around sunset (or after looking up from my computer monitor) it looks too yellow-- the result of ambient light bias.

Am I 100% happy with the light quality I get from compact fluorescents? In a word, no, but I can't stand the thought of running my air conditioner for longer hours just to remove the extra heat (I live in Texas). Most power plants are only 30% efficient, so a 15W CFL uses 45W of fuel from the power plant, and a 60W incandescent uses 180W of fuel. Multiply this by the number of bulbs in your house. The light quality is good enough for me given the benefits.

When I want better color rendering, I aim a small halogen at the work surface. Small halogen task lights to supplement CFL room lighting are a good compromise.

"And not all bulbs will dim."

Yet another reason to have multiple lamps with different switches.

Great.
I think cfl's are great.
The one thing i never see discussed is their comparitive savings in a cold environment.
Since incandescents waste energy by useing 80% to produce heat verses light the energy use is offset in cold environments by heating systems not useing as much energy.
I have never seen this quanitfied buy any studies.
(This is what was taught by Sylvania in their lighting courses)
So!? would we actually do better to change back to incandescents in cold weather and maybe dim them to save energy?

I know that there are full spectrum CFLs which are much easier on the eyes.

the yellow of traditional incandescents is extremely hard on the eyes, especially sensitive ones like mine.
over 2.5 years ago i bought the Seventh Gen full spectrum neomydium bulbs and they have yet to burn out. the light they give off is so lovely. i am kind of nervous about the switch to CFLS.
i've moved and taken them with me and they are still going!!! when those burn out at last i'll move on to CFL's. in my entire apt i have at the very max 300w as far as lightbulbs are concerned going at any given time, and on average, usually just 100w in the living room where i spend most of my time in the evenings. I also switched my NY ConEd to conedison solutions which is renewable (mostly wind) energy. i pay a wee bit more but it's hardly noticeable and makes me feel good.

I'm an Architectural Lighting Designer. I work mostly on high end residences and commercial projects. I can certainly understand some people when they say compact fluorescents are confusing. They are to the avg consumer. They're offered in several color temperatures and most are very delayed on start up and offer terrible color rendition. Some brands are good and some are horrible.

There is a solution but it's usually not cheap. For those doing a new construction it may make it more feasible There's products that will do all, or most of the things people want. But they cannot use Home Depot materials. (no offense) You're better off going to a lighting store where the people are more informed. Ask to speak to their lighting consultant/lighting designer. They will be able to offer retrofits/ new fixtures that will do what you want. You also have a better chance of not being sold a blue(6500k) bulb and another 3000k. Creating that horrible different color bulbs some people mentioned.

When we design a green project, on a remodel where major construction is not an option. We use high end compact fluorescents, LED, and IR halogen low voltage lighting. This type of lighting is available in the most desired colors of 2700-3500 kelvin with extremely high color rendition. These products combined with a lighting design based on a floor plan and emphasis on efficiency, you have what you want.

Also keep in mind they're totally dimmable and they can be tied into a home automation system which can control lighting/audio visial/ hvac among other things. All these combined lead to an extremely efficient home.

I guess what I'm saying is you need a consultant if your serious about quality lighting and energy conservation. There's lighting consultants that can help you. The industry is investing on revolutionary solutions for lighting.

Every year I see more products that can do amazing things. In the last 5 years we have come a long way. It's almost unbeliable! And it's getting better.

"Every "dimmable" bulb I have tried only dims to around 20%. Put four of them in our family room and try to watch TV at the lowest setting....you'll go nuts - it is WAY too bright."

brian,
perhaps consider thinking outside the square? - turn off the room lights and switch on a shaded, low wattage corner lamp
Or if you want to get high tech, run the 4 family room lights on separate switches so you dont need to turn on all at once
Just a thought.... (from someone who remembers life before dimmer switches were invented)

You're missing the point of the article in the NY Times and others that are studying the spectrum of light that is most healthful for evening environments.

Since 2002 we know that there is a third set of photoreceptors in the eye that directly effect hormone production. This is trigered by cool white light that is inherent in all mercury based light sources including HID and fluorescent.

So while you may disagree that the fluorescent is not compromising quality to your tastes, your body says otherwise.

For more information please see Dr. Joan Roberts, and others who have reasearched chronobiology.

What is recommended in our evening environments is to have dimmable warm (if even closer to infrared light) than to have the spiky spectral distribuiton of fluorescent.

You may be saving energy, but in the end you might be seeing far greater occurances of breast cancers and other hormone-dependent cancers.

IKEA has some excellent CFLs if you want the color of the incandescents. A nice trick we in utilities reccommend is to mix them up. If you cant live without the light from the old bulbs, keep a couple in where you would most notice, like a vanity. You'll still save energy and money! In the meantime, technology is catching up with demand. Cold cathode or "instant on" CFLs and LEDs will change the way we light our world.

LEDs really are better.

the new leds are way better than cfl or incandescent . they have finally surpassed the efficiency, and they arent made with pollutants. i have LED lighting in my home that is very nice and warm. example: you can easily get the light equivalent of a 100W light bulb with 5 leds driven at a total of 10W . this is a very new thing, so you may not have heard yet, but leds suddenly contend, and will surely surpass all other forms of lighting very soon. they follow moores law (every 18 months they double in efficiency. check out cree.com youll be suprised!

While CFL's have improved considerably, I still find their light to be somewhat harsh and artificial. Sometimes there's just no substitute for a window or a skylight. The human eye feels most comfortable under plain old sunlight.

I recently bought CFLs and at first I was afraid they would have that cold typical fluorescent light, but they don't. In fact, I don't notice a difference. At first I put it in my room only, and I like it so much (and think its very beneficial to the environment) that I replaced two more in my living room (they werent burnt out yet but I couldnt wait). In case anyone's interested, they are LUMINUS 9W CFL. They work like a charm for ambiant lighting, and if you want something that lights more, go with 13W (equal to a 60W incandecent). Although they do have a half second delay after theyve been off for a while, but honestly who cares? They use more than 75% less electricity.

IKEA, the king of dimmable free-standing lighting, are still not selling dimmable CFLs in the UK, and are not indicating the incompatibility on either lamp or CFL bulb.

When I asked an IKEA 'colleague' about it, she had to fetch a superior, he confirmed that CFLs and the dimmable lighting were incompatible, but didn't offer any advice.

This means that our favourite and much used living room lamp, is now fitted with only a 35W incandescent, and is one of the few lights in the house without a CFL. I'll get around to re-wiring it eventually!

On the plus side, I've seen you can now get GU10s as (somewhat ugly) CFLs, so those will soon replace 100W of oft-used incandescent light in the kitchen...

i like the idea OF LED light bulbs and thawt they could be flashing in my face while eating 2 gallons of vanilla bean icecream

Popular Mechanics did some semi-formal testing of popular CFLs compared to a standard incandescent bulb, recording color temperatures, brightness, and overall performance.

Worth a look

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home_journal/home_improvement/4215199.html?page=1

In summary, buy Phillips Marathon CFLs. Good bulb, great price.

When I think of florescent, I remember how it works. Electrons bombard a powder that glows. Electrons are pure negative energy, that's why we feel so rotten in a traditional work environment, we are being bombarded with negative energy, bringing them into our houses just makes no sense. In addition, they should never be allowed in women's bathrooms and dressing rooms : )

I've declined to use CFLs because of the mecury content. While it's true that a CFL requires little mercury, the human toxicity level of mercury is slight. But it's not the slight mercury level in each CFL that's remarkable, it's the mercury-collective represented by MILLIONS of CFLs that will be heading for our landfills in a few short years.

My energy source is hydro-electric, so using CFLs would do ZERO to reduce my carbon footprint.

Sure, I'd save money with CFLs. But isn't trading cash for toxic trash what gave us Super Fund sites?

I'll hug a tree and wait for LEDs.

led led led...

there are different kinds, and there are many edison bulb led's on the market.

i believe audi produces the first car to utilize led for headlamps.

open a window, how much freqin light do you need.

cfl or incad, like askin if i would vote dem or rep.

You promote the use of cfls because they use less to produce light. I bought six for my home last August(2007). They did produce the light I needed but after four months of use I began to have headaches that grew in intensity. A recent article reported that cfls could produce migraine headaches, seizures, and lupus. I would use more fuel than these medical conditions. I replaced all of these bulbs with incandescents and within two days my headaches ceased. the cfls also affected my pets so much that they would not eat much. After the removal they have returned to eating better. Besides these effects, the cfls have to be disposed of correctly. My incandescents can go in my regular trash. If you are having any of these problems, try removing the clfs in your home.

I use both fluorescent and incandescent lighting at home. While I notice little difference in actual tone, there is something indescribably... wrong about the quality of light from fluorescent lights. Perhaps this is due to the original article's idea that incandescence seems more natural to us.

With regards to the mercury content, i noticed one of the above comments saying that the mercury content in CFLs is less than the mercury released into the atmosphere from the coal fired power stations supplying the extra energy, but surely by throwing them into landfill will concentrate the toxins into one place. Also, it seems to me that CLFs contain a lot more complicated technology, and it would be interesting to see the comparison in energy consumption between the two, as incandescents are surely simpler to manufacture.

I have heard it said (sorry, no reference) that light production represents just 2% of a homes total energy usage, and that at best, CFLs use half the energy of standard bulbs. Thus by switching to CFLs we only make a 1% improvement in our energy usage. On the other hand, factors such as sensible insulation in roofs and walls can save as much as 30 - 40%! I find that figure quite incredible!

The other major contributing factor is the energy consumed in getting food to the table. Again, no reference, but somewhere, I think in the Guardian newspaper (UK), there were many comparisons between so called green ideas (hybrid cars, CFLs etc) and veganism. On almost, if not every comparison, becoming vegan did the most to reduce carbon emissions. Buying organic meat from a farm next door still had a greater impact on the environment than FLYING a tin of beans from New Zealand! Obviously buying local food, preferably vegetable in origin, will have a much greater impact on reductions of CO2 (about 20%, if I remember correctly) than swapping to CFLs.

The point I am trying to make is that the incandescent/fluorescent debate seems to pale in comparison to other green initiatives. The unavoidable truth of the matter is that we just need to use less stuff. It's not a very popular concept, but the best way to aid the environment, in my opinion, is to use less.

PS surely the best light source is firewood from sustainable forests, or candles made from vegetable wax? Any thoughts?

I have replaced most of my lights with CFLs in my home. I do have one halogen lamp still (in my bedroom) and one lamp with an incandescent bulb, which I will replace with a CFL once it burns out. If I have the the CFL and incandescent lamp both on, side by side, I can tell the difference. But if I just have the lamps with CFLs on, I really don't notice the difference.

I have yet to find a flourescent that I cannot see the flickering of and any reduction in lighting costs may get offset by an increase in heating bills, and though heating your house with lightbulbs does seem ridiculous, at least it means that you know you are getting a nice broad spectrum.

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