As a Canadian, I share your feeling about this sad situation.

The worse thing is that the governments can't even blame a lack of public support for their actions; the population supports massively Kyoto and other environmental measures.

To think that with such a green population and all the talk in the past decade we ended up at a point where we're actually making the US looks good in GHG emissions.. How sad. At least Quebec and (IIRC) Manitoba have pretty good kyoto plans.

Actually, those wind turbines also don't contribute to getting Canada to lower Carbon emissions either. All the current breed do is waste your tax dollars.

We need a Carbon tax, and the $2/l gas and higher cola and nat gas prices that would result. That would lower green house gases a lot.

ah that's coal - not cola!

"Actually, those wind turbines also don't contribute to getting Canada to lower Carbon emissions either. All the current breed do is waste your tax dollars."

Please elaborate.

As a Canadian, I too am dismayed with BOTH governments (the Liberals for signing the accord without doing anything with it, and the Conservatives for inheriting the situation and not taking it seriously until it became a black eye for them) in their inability or political will to do the right thing. Perhaps, with enough domestic and global pressure, they'll change their tune.

What I mean is that the goal is to reduce - not microscopically lower the rate of increase - of carbon we are adding to the air. Wind turbines are basically a feel-good excercise for politicians and voters.

The two eruopean countries with the dirtiest electrical generation are Denmark and Germany - their electricity is about 10 times dirtier than Sweden, France and the other 'bests'. Denmark and Germany are also the two countries on earth with the most windpower installed.

You can install wind power until the cows come home, but as long as you back it with coal and nat gas, the net lowering of carbon into the air is almost 0.

"In conclusion, it seems reasonable to ask why wind-power is the beneficiary of
such extensive support if it not only fails to achieve the CO2 reductions required,
but also causes cost increases in back-up, maintenance and transmission, while at
the same time discouraging investment in clean, firm generation.
"http://www.countryguardian.net/

You hosers really buy into all that phony global warming nonsense?

wind turbines also don't contribute to getting Canada to lower Carbon emissions either

Please.

Canadians tend to harbour two myths about themselves. One is that we're "evnrionmental". The other is that we're loved abroad. The first: no need to comment. The second: do you think anyone could really love a people that insists on plastering its flag over ever square inch of clothing and luggage whenever they travel?

Unfortunately we've acheived nexxus lately in these two issues--it definitely hasn't escaped the general population in Europe that Canada is most cynically renegging on Kyoto. We're fast going from slightly goofy and inoffensive to hypocritical Americans-in-disguise. Rather than being "Americans, but without all the bad stuff", we're becoming "Americans, but without all the good stuff." (which is a very accurate description of Stephen Harper.) It's all very sad.

In the 60s and 70s, I gather (I wasn't around then), there was genuine, well-deserved national pride. In my lifetime, I've seen this devolve into self-conscious, shallow anti-americanism. We need to get back into internationalism. Kyoto is the new Suez, and we need a new Lester B Pearson.

- algibson "You hosers really buy into all that phony global warming nonsense?"

Even if you dont believe in global warming, dont you think the steps taken which reduce pollution and help improve water and air quality are warrented?

Canadians tend to harbour two myths about themselves.

You forgot to mention that they think they're smarter/more well-educate than other people, especially Americans.

In my lifetime, I've seen this devolve into self-conscious, shallow anti-americanism.

Canadians reminds me of Finns - spend an inordinate amount of time obsessing about their much larger neighbor and telling themselves how superior they are to them, while the larger neighbor essentially forgets they're there.

It's just basic compensation for a deeper inferiority complex, as well as an attempt to cover up how similar and dependent they are on the US. The little maple leaves on the golden arches sort of thing is sad, IMO.

Anyone living in canada this year can tell you that we are back to an early and brutally cold winter with snowfall records. I wouldn't doubt it if the north polar ice cap and glaciers regrow to their normal sizes.

Were there even any serious hurricanes this year?

Suddenly i feel doubtful that the past few warm years haven't just been a normally recurring pattern. What's next, combat global cooling? It seems people just need to worry about something.

Keep on truckin!

Brennan,

Great attitude, let me show you something. Your using a computer. I don't care about it's specs, but if the technicians, and factory workers, and engineers and all the other people who worried over making that better then the previous versions. You wouldn't be using this website.

I definitely do agree with Global Warming, I am having one of the warmest falls that I can remember. So across the globe what is happening?

Ohh and that truck, wouldn't be around if people didn't worry about making it work.

As for Canadians, well I hope they find their stuff. Sorry, but I'm an American and well we are deeply in debt, can't seem to remember that for longer then a second, and then go off spending more. We have laws that are planly off, that aren't even attempted to have followed through with. Finally we have Corporations running the government around as if they are a pet on a lesh.

This all makes me sick, but instead of turning my eyes away, I'm attempting to do something.

While Canada isn't doing great with CO2 it is doing ok with wind power.

->
Canada doubles wind energy output in 2006
Wed Nov 22, 2006 12:39 PM EST

TORONTO (Reuters) - Canada has nearly doubled its wind energy capacity in 2006, adding 657 megawatts, and now has the ability to meet the power needs of 406,000 homes, according to the Canadian Wind Energy Association.

Robert Hornung, the association's president, said Canada now has 1,341 megawatts of installed wind energy, adding that governments across the country want a minimum of 10,000 megawatts installed by 2015.

"As wind energy produces no air pollutants or greenhouse gas emissions, increased deployment of wind energy is also helping Canada to meet its objectives with respect to clean air and climate change," Hornung said.

The association represents more than 250 companies involved in the wind energy industry. Canada's largest wind farm, the 189-megawatt Prince Wind Energy Project in northern Ontario, was opened on Wednesday.

Careful people, don't confuse the weather with the climate.

I do more than my share for the environment: ride bicycles, garden and eat vegetarian, wear sweaters, reduce, reuse, and recycle everything I can. So there.

With regard to worrying about stuff: engineers and companies don't worry about making products better for the benefit of humans. They make them better to be better than the competition to sell more and make more money. In a monopoly situation, companies provide the bare minimum quality.

Fact: Canadians ARE better educated than Americans.

Canadians emit more GHGs than anyone else per capita becuase we are a vast, sparsely populated country and it's damned cold up here.

I don't know anyone who plasters themselves with Canadian flags when travelling internationally. And if we do have a flag on our luggage tag, it's out of normal national pride and to differentiate ourselves from Americans, who are blatantly or latently loathed everywhere because of their typically obnoxious personalities and ignorance, and meddlesome foreign policies.

Europeans should shut their pieholes, our (and american) boys have died in multiple wars for them because they were too cowardly to do the jobs themselves. They'd all be speaking german or russian if it weren't for us. Europeans only satisfied Kyoto levels because their prior levels were so atrocious in the first place, and thus easier to remedy.

We're trying up here, honest. But it's hard to do stuff or care when you spend so much time shivering and shovelling snow.

Americans, who are blatantly or latently loathed everywhere because of their typically obnoxious personalities and ignorance, and meddlesome foreign policies.

Ha. Pot meet Kettle.

LA: last post of this nature.

I did not mean this post to turn into an international name-calling match. Please, keep it civil or I shut off the comments.

Man Brennan where do you live in Canada? I've lived in NS and Ottawa Ontario and while it's damned cold 4 month of the year it's nice or in the case of Ottawa too damned hot (had no AC).

The rest of what you had to say is somewhat true.

I live in the US now and many Americans do have obnoxious personalities mainly out of ignorance. Some people I work with have the attude it they mess with the US or don't see it our way we should just blow them away. The average Americans view of the environment, don't get me started, I won't claim to be holier than thou but I do what I can.

Europeans should shut their pieholes...

That was a bit strong but many Canadian and American men lost their lives so that your all free today.
Also I've recently read several European countries are behind in their Kyoto goals.

Also ask Europe how much environmental damaged was done by these wars, some like to blame them on Germany but the first was due to an arms race and alliances and the 2nd because in an effort to punish the loser the seeds were sewn.

See everyones S&it stinks so cut out the nationalist crap.

indeed...makes me long for the old (1970s) ten dollar bill with the oil refinery on it.... ugly but honest...

I agree that Canada's environmental policy has become a hypocritical and hopeless joke.

But I see the stamp not as a symbol of what is but rather what could be. Anything that advertises the beauty of wind energy on such a ubiquitous scale as to reach any Canadian who sends or receives mail is a good move, and helps to add wind energy to the collective consciousness. And isn't what we need more of, right now, a more conscious civilization to wake up and start acting responsibly?

Lets not fall into the trap of becoming cynics. Being critical is extremely important, but it shouldn't become the only reflex we have or our only way of looking at the world. We need to generate mind share, excitement, and a positive sense that change can happen.

What better way to start than licking a few stamps and sending a few letters?

Re Anonymous of 1:17pm's post - countryguardian.net is one of the main anti-wind, climate-change denial websites.

Full disclosure: I design wind farms.

Brennan mentions that Canadians are better educated than folks in the U.S. By what measure? In a recent Canadian study of higher education it showed that the U.S. outranks Canada in accesibility to higher education, participation percentage of the population AND attainment (ie completion of a degree). Canada did outrank the U.S. in affordability (ranked 11 out of 16 while U.S. ranked 13 out of 16).

You can find the study at http://www.educationalpolicy.org/pdf/Global2005.pdf

Please do not lick the stamps as they are peel & stick!

Fact: Canadians ARE better educated than Americans.

No, that's not a fact. Thanks for demonstrating my point.

Canadians emit more GHGs than anyone else per capita becuase we are a vast, sparsely populated country and it's damned cold up here.

90% of your population lives within 50 miles of the US border. You emit a high amount of GHGs per capita because you have a lot of fossil resources and are realtively dependent on primary industries, which are energy-intensive. The climate is a just an excuse, as that can easily be dealt with with good technology. "Sparsely populated" is also nonsense, since the vast majority of your population is clustered in the major urban centers.

Didn't the fine Canadian educational system convey all that to you?

I don't know anyone who plasters themselves with Canadian flags when travelling internationally

Then you must not travel.

And if we do have a flag on our luggage tag, it's out of normal national pride and to differentiate ourselves from Americans, who are blatantly or latently loathed everywhere because of their typically obnoxious personalities and ignorance, and meddlesome foreign policies.

Oh yes, all Americans are like that. You're so right, Mr. Superior Canuck.

We're trying up here, honest. But it's hard to do stuff or care when you spend so much time shivering and shovelling snow.

Oh yes, those Vancouver winters are just brutal. You might have to put on a sweater.

Say your prayers for the Queen's Mum before you hit the sack tonight.

- algibson "You hosers really buy into all that phony global warming nonsense?"

I assume he means the nonsense of global warming denialists.

"You can install wind power until the cows come home, but as long as you back it with coal and nat gas, the net lowering of carbon into the air is almost 0."

This statement is based on the common myth that windpower needs continously needs 100% back-up. However, since windpower production can be predicted fairly accurately the statement is untrue.

brennan... i must say i disagree with your comment:

"Anyone living in canada this year can tell you that we are back to an early and brutally cold winter with snowfall records."

I live in Winnipeg... incontestably one of the coldest larger cities in North America. As I look out my apartment window I see no snow. It's been abnormally mild this winter.... I don't think i can pinpoint this directly to global warming,(although I'm sure it's linked) BUT you can't make generalizations about all of Canada having record lows... because Winterpeg is pretty mild.. and I grew up with snow on Halloween, every year of my life.

Canada is hypocritical regarding our environmental policies, it's sad as I would have expected more of Canada these days... so I'm trying to make up for what my government isn't doing: cycling, taking transit, composting etc etc...

the problem with the world is you and me. it's up to us to fix that.

@ knobsturmer

If there would be a carbon tax that reflected the damage caused by CO2, there would be no need to subsidise windpower. The external cost of conventional electricity production are higher than the price difference between conventional power and windpower

Pretty sure Nova Scotia has the best recycling policy of anywhere.

canada sparsely populated? canada 3.2 persons/sq km (219th out of 230 nations), US 31 persons/sq km.

canadians better educated/smarter? Canada outscored US in international standardized testing for all categories (literacy, numeracy, and science). Not to mention there is absolutely no debate to put 'intelligent design' in canadian classrooms. http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/2006073.pdf

global warming just a natural cycle? edmonton daily average temperatures, Nov 28: 2002 5.2C, 2003 -1.5C, 2004 -1.2C, 2005 -7.8C, 2006 -30C! (forecast)

vancouver is a canadian weather anomaly.

Since the comments no longer have anything to do with the subject and everything to do with international relations, I have turned them off.