Citizenrē's REnU: A Solar Service System for Homeowners

I really like this idea in pricipal, but where are these guys getting their capital? Does anyone else think the sales associate system sounds like a pyramid scheme?

I can't find anything on their site about what happens if you move after say 3 years of having the service. This could be a problem for people who get transferred in their jobs. hopefully they have a good solution for this because it sounds like a great option to get people onto solar.

Granted this adds a layer of complexity for your contract when selling your home.

But I'm thinking anyone who would be interested buying a house with solar panels already on it would also be interested in paying less than the power companies cost for their electricity.

If you move to a new home, the company will move the panels with you at no cost. This option is valid only for one time, for 5 and 25 years contracts. As an alternative, the contract can be transferred to the new home owner (at no cost) or simply termitated, which will result in the loss of the initial security deposit - average $500 - paid at the time of installation.

As far as marketing, Citizenre has chosen to use direct sales to better reach its target market, home-owners.

There is an ongoing discussion of this at grassrootsmodern.com as well as one person that is signing up. Check it out:http://forum.grassrootsmodern.com/discussion/81/affordable-solar-power/

The thing that worries me is their pyramid scheme marketing. hmm

I went ahead and signed up after seeing this article just to find out what the real deal was. Where's the bait and switch? So far no switch. I do have to wait until September of next year to get it, but apparently I get today's rate since I'm signing up now.

I saw their direct sales site. I called them on it. I didn't know if they were going to try and get me in an MLM scheme or not. The sales associate said that I didn't have to be involved in marketing at all. The rental stands on its own two feet. If I wanted to sell, I was more than welcome to, but if not he asked me to refer a few friends to him. I said that I would give his information to my friends, but that I would go to bat for him.

I figure, why not? Didn't cost me anything. They didn't ask for any personal info. And since I signed up for a 25 year contract, I got my security deposit waived. (waiver offer is good til January 1, so take your time and read through the site if you haven't) No risk... You gotta be a little light on the grey matter if you don't just sign up now.

I have been renovating a a historic home in Savannah, Ga. for the past several months and have been struggling with what to do about electricity. Since Georgia does not have any tax breaks for solar panels it was really out of the question until I came across this post. I am a bit nervous about the 25 year contract period however. Does anyone know where I can find information on the historical rates of electricity? Is there any chance I could end up paying more with the solar panels than with my local electric provider ten years from now?

This appears to be scam in that
1. They have no solar panels to sell, only a "factory" to be built that "promises" to make the lowest cost panels on the planet - and thats what makes the "deal" work. One rep said it will be the largest plant of its kind in the world built in Delaware. In searching news archives and solar industry sources, no plant of any kind is being built in Delaware or in the US for that matter. You would think that such an investment would make news. It didn't because it ain't.

2. Social Security # - being asked for your SS# by person you never met in another state - that's something that Craigs' List advises against in order to avoid being scammed yet that's what this outfit wants ASAP.

so...if someone wants you to sell something that does not exist that will allegedly be made real cheap in a place that does not exist and wants your SS# to boot...well just use your common sense.

Hey Stonecoldsolar:

I signed up and they didn't ask me for a SSN. I saw your post on another blog, and it sounds to me like you work for Big Oil. Do they have you a little nervous? It's about time.

Yes, It is a little nerve racking. I'm a huge supporter of PhotoVoltaics, so I'm in. http://www.citizenre.com/robertreese

The concept sounds great, unfortunately it seems to me that they will never be able to produce the number of systems they can promise.

Here's the scary part. Let's say they reach their goal of 30k sales reps by year's end. Let's further say they never recruit another sales rep after that. And lets say each sales rep only signs up one person per week.

That’s 30,000 sign-ups per week, each one accompanied by a $500 non-refundable deposit from the homeowner.

They claim they will have their manufacturing plant up and producing at 20% by September. That’s about 35 weeks of collecting $500 checks from 30,000 sales reps.

They will have collected over 500 million dollars before producing even one system. They will have promised over one million systems by then in a plant that, at full capacity, can only produce 100,000 systems per year!

The reality is that they are not stopping at 30,000 reps, but will continue to grow their network exponentially, collecting well over one billion dollars before they have even promised to deliver on their goods.

Great comments Benjamin! Can't argue with that!

I was asked to be a 'Rep' (of course isn't everybody?) and had to click through a few screens to fill out personal info and they indeed wanted my SS#. Uh, no I don't work for 'big oil' - I run a small construction company in Massachusetts.

People:
It's free to become an associate. Do it and get your questions answered. Remember the satellite dish? It's the same idea. Also, remember whose side your on. If you're skeptical, ask them, before bashing them. It's solar, after all.

I tried to do a background check on this company through the Better Business Bureau's national website and their Delaware website(Where Citizenre has a physical address) and the BBB has no record of this company existing. I requested that the BBB look into the comapny, but have not heard anything back yet. Will keep you posted.

ALSO: No address in Cambridge, MA although they claim to have a 'Research Center' there. Sure in some grad student's laptop in an MIT dormroom LOL. Good idea since its cloudy there 55% of the time. No known address in Cambridge at this time but they "announce" such on their site. Seems as soon as you scratch the surface on this bunch, its a dead end. And it seems they search the web for boards like this and their "associates" post brain-numbed comments but can't argue any facts.

Uh, not at all like satellite TV. They have something to sell, CitizenRe does not. You pay for the system, you own it with SATTV.

Great comments Benjamin, however you have forgotten a small detail, they do NOT require any deposit whatsoever. I signed up a week ago as an associate and I was on their conference call on Sunday. All I heard was answers to all of my questions. As a matter of fact I have already signed up my parents and some of my neighbors. By the way I did not have to give them my SSN#.

Maybe it wouldn't hurt if you read their site before you start typing. Their Delaware address is actually registered to them. Look it up for yourself: https://sos-res.state.de.us/tin/GINameSearch.jsp

They might not be a big name now, so what? What have the BIG NAMES given us so far? I don't see BP Solar coming up with anything, and beside financing their own programs, all they have done in the last 10 years is change their logo to a green sunflower. Great.

SSN's were required, now they are not required to be an associate. They will be required in order for sales associates to get paid. Deposits are not required for December. According to the website, after December there will be a $500 security deposit after an engineer comes out and does a site survey, designs a PV system compatable with the usage of the customer, and both the customer and Citizenre agree to terms. I'm told that the manufacturer of the PV's will make the announcement after the first of the year... Let's not rush into anything. I'm glad we're talking about this, and let's use our heads, but let's DO something too. Be safe, but Get involved!
Robert Reese

It does not add up in many ways. The company has no capacity whatsoever to do what they claim they will do. If you want to see a REAL PV company...not a bunch of posers like these inexperienced fast talking jokers, look for Nanosolar of Palo Alto, CA. They have 3x the existing manufacturing capacity and are in fact building the largest PV plant in the USA and they own the world's largest plant in Germany. Regardless PV is a very risky speculative business so by pre-selling to individuals CitizenRENU reduces the risk to investors. No doubt they are up to SOMETHING but with no record anywhere of these people doing any business in the venture capital markets where ALL the solar companies get their start-up dough - or registered in any state other than DE - or known to anyone in the solar industry - its would be way too risky to do any business with people who have no experience in the industry. Keep away.

When I first saw the citizenre logo I assumed that they were assosiated with BP Solar since they use the same flower type thing. I haven't found any connection though. Anyone have info on this?

It is a blatant use of what marketing 101 calls 'associative semi cognitive imaging' in this case it works since you made the mental connection to BP a legitimate solar entity. This is how sleazy people build trust through these types of blantantly misleading marketing tricks. Don't be fooled by the famliarity of the images that are just different enough from the trademarked logos to avoid legal action. Who knows maybe BP should sue them. It's pretty sneaky ain't it?

I don't think the CitizenRE logo looks anything like the BP logo. I agree that that the volume of panels they intend to produce and install is a little worrisome but I think the long-term financials make sense. As they lock in the rates for the consumers the return on the net-metered electricity that is sold to the Utility combined with the renewable energy credits that will be sold to business that wish to purchase them makes a lot of sense. So for a fixed up front cost they will be recieving higher and higher returns for the installed hardware. I hope this inspires other companies to do the same, especially for smaller scale wind power in areas where this is appropriate. I also think that there should be Federal Legislation that enforces net-metering in the few states that have bowed to the pressure of utility companies and refused to open their networks.

Benjamin. wow. Talk about conspiracy theory. Citizenre collects NO deposits until a design engineer visits the house and the customer signs off on the design. Then the deposit is collected and the system is installed.

It would be unethical to collect a deposit before the product was produced.

All the company is currently doing is getting customers to "raise their hand" and say, "I am interested." If they don't like the design or they want to change their mind for any reason...they can decline at any time before the system is installed with no penalty.

No social security numbers are collected. No deposits are collected.

When a rep starts earning money, the are required to give a ss number before a check can be paid. That is federal law for tax purposes.

Your assumption that 30,000 reps would sell on avg 1 unit a week is highly ambitious. The avg rep gets 2.2 customers during their entire career according to network marketing statistics.

Most people will just tell a few neighbors...but that is how we spread the word. Customers can even get 5% off their bill every monty for every customer they refer.

What makes Citizenre unique is that there is no investment from the reps, ever. Most companies profit from their rep base ordering products to qualify for their check. With Citizenre there is nothing to order. Reps make money by switching customer to solar.

That seems like a good thing to me.

Dear "anonomous"

NanoSolar has some great people and just raised $100 million in venture capital. They had to use venture capital because their technology has never been proven in the field. Venture capital comes with a high price.

Citizenre is able to use debt financing, which has much more attractive terms, because they are using a proven technology.

Before you call Citizenre "posers," look up their CTO, Dr. Rob Wills. He is probably the most respected design engineer in the renewable space.

What Citizenre is doing is unique and there will be skeptics. I just didn't think there would so many on this site.

If you have not seen their new video with Ed Begley Jr. go to www.jointhesolution.com/join

It explains the whole program. Take the time to understand it. It makes sense. The video is only 8 minutes.

Its hard to see how this will work financially. for 500 dollars down and about 50-60 a month, they are going to install a rooftop pv system and interface it with your home wiring and with the electric utility. I figure this has to cost 10-15 thousand minimum and that still wouldnt supply all your power.

I know a little about solar, having stock in a company that manufactures thin film pv. I've read and studied about it for 6 years now. I really want this to work, I would love to have pv on my roof but I dont see how it can be financially feasible.

Also My kwh cost is 8c , they show it as 10.3c . I'd pay 10.3 for the solar generated energy on principle, but that isnt the retail cost at my utility.

If I did the system I would also want to add a little storage to run my well, a few lights and my fridge in a power failure. I know it costs 5-600 dollars just to put a small collector and accessories on an a garden shed to run a light and a 15 amp receptacle for a power tool. I just dont see how they could do this.

I agree with Benjamin on this 1

I was asked the same as well, as if everybody isn't huh? And there you go, what's my #SS?? Just forget it alright? When marketing get too "clever", it starts being irritating isn't it? I guess all should have figured what's going on. However these guys somehow make a living too, so i withdraw "all".

Unfortuantely treehugger has once again failed to do their due diligence on a simple story. I have to remain anonymous here because of the possibility of retribution from CitizenRE.

Hopefully the dozens who have signed up for this multi-level marketing scheme still have a way out; note that all comments in support of the program trace back directly to sales representatives or employees of the company, and that the financial claims, address, undisclosed principals, proprietary information, and pressure to sign up as a sales rep once reserved for your PV system are all classic indicators of a semi-Ponzi scheme.

The solar industry is once again falling afoul of unethical business practices; the only hope to continue the surge in current solar development is to stick to ethical business practices and savvy buying.

Get multiple quotes on your system from ethical installers, request a contractor's license and referrals, and check into the financing options offered by companies that *don't* work like Amway or Prepaid Legal.

treehugger, you've done a great disservice by failing to do some real reporting here - but there's still time. An hour or three of simple investigation could make a real story for you and make sure solar doesn't take another crippling black eye the way that they did in the 70s.

I'm very surprised at the skeptism and misinformation on this post. Have these people really been beat up in the marketplace, by bad companies, so badly that they have to come up with every lame excuse in the world?

First of all, a pyramid scheme is when a company requires you to pay money to join as a sales associate, then tries to encourage you to spend your time signing up new associates instead of selling the product. Most of the money you pay to sign up is distributed to the upline. This is bound to collapse and leave the people on the bottom rungs losing money. Citizenre doesn't charge anything to sign up and the only way to make money is to sell these systems. Definitely not a pyramid scheme.

And not that I think the BP Solar symbol looks like the Citizenre one - but why would they want to make people think they are connected with that company? BP has spent a lot of money in the last 10 years on solar technology and have what to show for it? With that kind of success, I wouldn't even want my kids lemonade stand confused with them.

Secondly, the product. It's a similar desgin to what has been on the market for a couple of decades. There is newer technology, but hasn't been tested to last that long. Any investor would understand that to attempt this large scale program, the product would have to be reliable. $100 million to Nanosolar may sound like a lot of money, but in the energy industry it's nothing. If you run the numbers, Citizenre is looking at a multi-billion dollar financing plan. Not the kind of financing a new, untested technology is going to get.

Thirdly, the opportunity for the customers. The only upfront cost is the "refundable" security deposit(with interest) and that isn't due until the systems engineer comes to your home, makes the computations and plans for the system, and the homeowner signs off on the plan. After signing the initial Forward Rental Agreement, the homeowner can cancel this contract at anytime and with no penalty, up until the homeowner approves this plan. In fact, if the homeowner has a credit score over 750 (same criteria as to be approved for an auto manufacturer's car loan rate) then there is no security deposit required. There are 1, 5, and 25-year contracts available that lock in the rate that you currently pay your electrical utility. No installation or maintenance costs.

And finally the opportunity for sales associates. How about $500,000 to pay to the sales associates before the company collects a dime from any customers? Granted it does take a little faith to work for a company and get most of the money for the sales down the road. Anyone that has followed any religion should understand faith. Why MLM? Simple - word-of-mouth advertising is the strongest form and it also creates a large network of associates that future products/services/idea can be disseminated through.

This opportunity, as a customer or associate, isn't for everyone, right now. Some people are negative about everything. Some customers don't like to be the early adopters and just follow the crowd, when the crowd gets big enough. And some salespeople don't look in the long term, they're just worried about what they are taking home next week. That's fine. They can come on board at a later date.

So in conclusion, if this is a scam, it's worst scam ever, because they are spending a lot of money and haven't made a dime yet. All the negativity in the world isn't going to stop this movement. President Bush signed the Solar America Initiative that states over 75 million Americans(25%) must be getting their power through Renewable Energy by 2025. We won't even come close to that if we use the same plan as all of the solar companies have for the past 30 years(less than 1% market share).

So please be green, hug a tree, and open your eyes to the possibilities.

For more information please go to:
www.jointhesolution.com/freethegrid

Kirk- is that true that citizenre will waive the $500 security deposit if ones credit is >750? Did not know that. Awesome information!

CitizenRe is nothing but internet postings and a fancy webpage.

Their business model makes no sense.
See my rather rough analyis and commentary here:
http://renergynow.blogspot.com/
january 10 2007 posting

I suspect your $500 downpayment is all they are after.

Who is Dr. Robert H. Wills?

this one is from the CitizenRe corporate website...

http://www.citizenre.com/web/index.php?p=leadership

http://sandia.gov/ess/Publications/Conferences/2001/RobertWills.pdf

http://www.distributed-generation.com/Library/UIT_AE.pdf

WOW Dr. Wills is connected to Beacon Power through Advanced
Energy Systems...Why hide info like this??? It is beyond me...
Beacon Power is BIG...Their flywheel technology is cutting edge &
being looked at in California.
*************************************************************

Beacon Power Corporation was founded in 1997 as a spin-off of
SatCon's Energy Systems Division, to develop flywheel-based energy
storage. We became a separate operating entity in 1998, and became a
public company in 2000 (Nasdaq: BCON). Our first flywheel systems
were deployed in multiple locations in North America for
telecommunications backup power applications. As the
telecommunications market slowed, we applied our technology to UPS
and higher power applications, leading to the Smart Power and Smart
Energy systems.

Realizing the synergy between flywheel energy storage and solar
power, in 2003 we acquired the intellectual property assets of
Advanced Energy Systems of Wilton, New Hampshire, a manufacturer of
photovoltaic (solar) power conversion systems. Today, as we continue
to explore new applications for flywheel energy storage, we have
launched a new line of solar power electronics products, beginning
with the Smart Power M5.
**************************************************************
http://www.beaconpower.com/company/news.htm

this is more recent info from 2005...

http://www.nesea.org/be05/Pages/Content/Tracks/track3.html

Scroll down at this link & check out the short bio fo Dr Wills
notice who the other speakers are?

It's all smoke and mirrors until they actually install a solar system, which they won't this year...Read On.

Join in the solution and stop being part of the problem! I have investigated this company since its inception. I have spoken to it's principals and have evaluated the technical side of this company. I have 28 years of electrical engineering background and give a "GREEN" light to sign up for this "GREEN" energy alternative!
Go to:
www.jointhesolution.com/yorkville
and read all the data and facts - make your own educated decision to sign up for SOLAR!!

That PDF is password protected. Where's an unprotected copy?

I signed up with CitizenRe. Alarm bells went off when the sales associate tried to sign me up as a sales rep. MLM? Yeesh. After reading thru this blog and others, I think now I'll wait until this operation is up and running before putting down my deposit. Now that I think about it, I don't see any real advantage in signing up early. Why not just wait til they go live?

Robert,
PDF is now unlocked. Let me know what you think, here or in comments on the linkitt dossier blog. Seems like one side isn't being upfront, and i'm afraid it's the company.

This is a link to the PDF:

http://linkitt.com/blog/2007/02/06/citizenres-legitimacy-called-into-question/

Good Luck

CitizenRe will use 5x8 matrix multi crystalline cells (18% efficient) on the rooftops of thousands of homes.
Their plan is to offer the homeowner a rental charge for the energy that is being produced from the array.
I have signed up my home and I am telling as many people about this "green" solution that I can. If anyone who reads this blog has any questions, contact me at:
www.jointhesolution.com/yorkville

thanks

For all the latest updates see:

http://www.renewableenergyaccess.com/rea/news/podcast?id=47452

I am very confident that the CitizenRe business model will work out, it truly is the only economies of scale solar solution currently being proposed in any real way.

Please read CitizenRe Answers to solar industry concerns: 2007-02-13

By, Dr. Robert Wills, P.E. CTO, Citizenre
Link:
CitizenRE Answers Solar Industry Concerns

Please join the solution using my Links Today!
Customer Site - Free Solar System
Associate Site - help others get free solar systems

It is Network Marketing but it differs in that associates don't have to pay anything to sign up or to receive payment on successful customer acquisition... additionally the company is contractually obligated to pay you commissions on your customer base for set multi-year term contracts... something no other MLM has ever offered.

Their executive team is incredible and the website systems are impressive, free training and required online exams... looks like a strong opportunity to me.

Thatcher Michelsen - 2Renu, Inc

Lets all make a difference on the environment here in the U.S. for the future.I have been looking closely at a company (CitizenRe)for months now and have registered to represent them. I have 28 years engineering experience and have always wanted a solar system on my home. My conclusion about this company is that they are legitimate and I am willing (and so are my customers) to wait for this young company to follow through on all of their promises. I can give you an honest assessment of this company. Please join in-become a customer or an associate on my team! I promise to make you successful at promoting this great "green" technology. I live in Yorkville IL and I am committed to converting all the roofs in my town from "black tar to blue polycrystalline"! Coming to a roof near you, CitizenRE!
www.powur.com/yorkville
www.jointhesolution.com/yorkville

I share every little bit of skepticism that has been expressed here.

That said, I signed up for a rental agreement. They are definitely not bilking end-users. They may well be bilking investors. I am not an investor. I am not one of their "econauts" or whatever they are.

There isn't a downside for me, apart from the very real possibility that I will never get anything installed by them and they will evaporate into the night.

It doesn't sound impossible to me. But it does sound difficult and new. The only way I see them making money is in fixing the costs of energy production now and expecting them to increase. They are, effectively, making themselves into a major utility overnight.

I agree that it all appears to be vaporware right now. But it is vaporware that is no risk to me. So I am taking the chance. YMMV.

i was a skeptic at first due to all the negative comments, bu it is clear that most negative comments are either false or exaggerated. i am now waiting for my system and i can't wait. as long as the PV is installed and i'm doing my part, i'll be convinced.

I was very skeptical about dropshipping and found a couple great companys that are not scams, Now I make an extra 1000-3000 a month selling world instruments on ebay and my website www.themagicalmysterystour.com I have always been very skeptical about any type of telemarketing, pyramid, sell insurance from home on your spare time type or start an eBay business and make 1000's a week ;o}

I first heard about this when I clicked on a link from one of my "Eco" Friend's myspace page. Immediately I was redirected to www.jointhesolution.com/dunlap and saw that it was another friend of mine I hadn't heard from in quite some time. I read it over, thought it was a good idea, and went ahead and filled out a contract (being careful what info was given) mostly to see where the catch was (I figured if Claudia was doing this then it must be somewhat safe/legitamate) She contacted me and we talked about it for a while.

She said she had been reading alot about "what is wrong with the company" and how it is a "scam," so I asked her...."is it?" Asking specific questions that would point to scam. She said she hasn't had a bunch of spam mail sent to her, they never asked her for a credit card number, social security number, tand the deposit isn't due until the system is ready to be installed. In fact most of the claims stating this company is a scam have been either A) False or exagerated or B) based on the fact that no production is currently being made (they seem to be waiting on the press release to tell the world when it happens. Understandable to protect yourself and your investors from big business terrorists Look into the Adam's Pulse Generator to know more about what lengths electric and oil companys will go to keep the world from turning green) There have been statements about no press releases but that turns out not to be true after investigating myself I found a few news conferences and happened to see the name on a cable channel the other day during a home improvement show lol. The Better Business Bureau Has said nothing negative aout the company as of date and there are no current investigations made public that I am aware of.

I signed up as a rep. mostly so I could see further into the inner workings (my interest had been sparked.) There is the obvious Pyramid incentive making you want to sign up new accounts under your name, and teach other likely people to make refferals and get new contracts, which usually turns me away, but I support the cause and see no real threat.

Actually the people that are most uneasy with this are the big solar companies. It would seem they are afraid of losing possible customers that will decide to rent rather than buy.

I looked at the petition to SEC and almost half of the people that signed claim to be from different solar organizations and/or companies most of the rest are anonymous (very brave eh?)

I believe with the situations of global warming at hand and our newly elected Democratic House and Congress there will be alot of support for this type of technology.

Who does have something to lose from this? Well the electric Company for one not to mention the major oil companys also the current solar companys will be forced to compete with this "mass production" So of course there will be millions of dollars paid to discredit, disrupt, and lobby against.

Let's take a quick look at the California Clean Air Act, It was a model for clean air that could have gained support from several other states and countries, requiring automobile industry to produce a certain amount of cars sold passing very strict emmissions testing guidelines. The "plug in electric car" was created and destroyed after the destruction of the Clean Air Act by the major Oil and Auto industrys Lobbyists.

To me that is the biggest concern, not the company taking my money and running, but instead the Major business Energy and Oil Destroying the company before it even gets off of the ground. I raise my hand in support of the idea. If for some unfortunate reason the company does not make it off of the ground I will know that I tried and supported for the good of the world and not the greed of humanity.

One fact that is never brought up is that much of the utility intertie agreements in the US do not actually buy back power. They simply credit you the power you use at the current rate. In other words, there is no legal way to sell the power company power. They do not have to buy it back. At least 20 states I know of, including Maine, where I live, have this type of utility intertie program. Will these states be out of luck when it comes to the (supposed) day when CitizenRE actually has panels to install?
The is an MLM scheme. I encourage those who have not yet signed up to simply sit back and watch as the years go by with no product ever coming to the marketplace. If I am wrong you can always sign up later, right?

I really do admire the loyalty of all you guys who keep singing the praise of CitzenRe.

Wake up! How many months have now gone by with CitizenRe promising to to announce information on their financial backer and the location of the manufacturing plant.?

3? 4? 6?

Still no information.

It is sad to see all your hard work and enthusiasm going to waste on Rob's mirage.

How much more time are you going to give these guys to come up with the basic information to justify your involvement?

3? 4? 6? Or does it realy matter to you. As long as you can TALK about solar thats great. but with CitizenRe, it is all just talk and no action. Feel Good about that?

The BIG press release will occur this month, and probably quite soon. Watch for us in the press! The state where our manufacturing plant will be located, and the identities of our financial backers will also be revealed. Get ready for solar- comnig to a home near you!

the press release may have been delayed (for good reasons). if anyone had an idea for a pattent would they keep it a secret or tell everyone just to prove it?

wouldn't a WISE person keep it a secret until they have secured their pattent== thus preventing someone from stealing their pattent & idea?

the united states armed forces don't tell how their new technology works just to prove it to the other counties. they will let them find out in due time.

if a person would leave a 7 figure a year job because he found out they were being dishonest, and is involved in citizenre--that's the kind of ethics i admire.

i think they should be commended for trying to give the common working man a chance to help the environment. why should only the well off & actors(actresses) be the only ones to help the environment? most of the people in the u.s. can barely afford to pay for the rising gas prices. i have to work a second job so i can buy gas to go to the first job. now i have an oppertunity to help the environment without having to work a 3rd & 4th job. its going to take everybody not just the well off & rich. there are more of us poor people than the others. i think i will do my part to help. if they fail, i loose nothing.

Interesting,

Still no news, now how did we all guess this was all hype and no action? I'll bet we have our off grid Hydrogen Fusion home units installed before this company gets their manufacturing up and running. It is closing in on a year since first getting wind of this deal, mostly hot air I might add.

Have you seen the recent news video clip demonstrating salt water iginiting to 1500 degrees with a flick of a switch? We use the same radio wave frequency modulation technology with our Hydrogen Fusion conversions, so take a look at the real future of energy alternatives. We only need one solar panel, not a whole roof full of PV panels, so stay tuned, the future is in hydrogen solar.

Good luck to all,

Hrm. It's July, and no big announcement. You guys seriously need to take another look at this amazing company you're championing. See if you can find the owners and ask them. Hopefully they haven't already taken off to Dubai.

I signed up. I will not buy solar panels, too expensive. I will not give a deposit until I see others have had positive experiences with this product. It may be five or 10 years before they start selling to homeowners- or as many have said - never . However, it doesn't cost the solar industry anything, because I will never buy solar power for my home. But I would gladly rent. So bypass, this company, give me a current solar provider who will let me pay for the system with the money I save from paying the power company. Why won't any solar power provider give the same deal? You will tell me because it is too expensive of a capital outlay to begin with that's why citizenre can't work. But you know, you could afford to experiment with a couple of units, and as the money comes in, you could try a few more. Build small, a few houses in one city. Get grants to make it a few more houses, as the money rolls in (say $50-$100/mo) eventually you'll get your money back. Or is solar never economically feasible, in which case the solar power industry as a whole is a joke, just as people are saying about citizenres.

You would think that such an investment would make news. It didn't because it ain't.

Doesn't the definition of a scam involve someone getting money from you and not providing what was promised? Look this up for your self at http://powur.com/cooltheglobe : there is no cost to sign up as a rep, you don't even have to be a customer to be a rep. I already live off the grid with solar and wind power so I didn't need this program. I do however have friends and family that would like to have solar but when I tell them how much it costs, their faces sink. This gives them an opportunity to make a difference without breaking the bank.

There is no pressure to be a rep. in fact, if you refer people without being a rep you still get 5% of their bill taken off your monthly bill.

And I will repeat what has already been said because people just aren't listening, You do not pay the deposit until the panels are approved for your location and ready to go up. (This was hard for me to wrap my brain around, but there really is no catch). But like I said before, how can it be a scam if there is NO money involved? There isn't one naysayer that has been able to give me an answer to that question.

From my experieince, Citizenre has the highest ethical requirements of its reps than any other network marketing company I have seen.

I look at it this way: If they don't end up producing all that they promised and more, I am not out one dime.

If you like the idea and would support such a business, then by all means do it and risk nothing. The risk is in not participating and seeing ever increasing power hikes and continuing to show your support for coal/nuclear power. If anything, by showing your support for CR, it will wake up industries like power companies, solar panel manufacturers and the government. It will show them that we are serious about making changes in the way things are done in this country. Ok, I'm off my soap box now!

I have signed up for Citizenre due to the lack of risk on my part. I still remember what cell phones used to cost until some dumb guy started giving them away. Where did that idea go? The sales agent I talked to said the projected cost per sq ft of the PV panels would be about $2.00 USD. This sounds about right with retail costs around $3.00 to $8.00.
A common mark up is 100% for retail items so this makes $2.00 in the lower end of solar panel costs. They are probably selling this like a new office building. First you sign up tenants then build the building if you get enough to sign up. Or it's a con of some kind. But most con's ask for money up front. This does not seem to be the case here. Only time will tell.

I just went to a Green Home Fair at the Center for Green Technology here in Chicago and stumbled upon CitizenRe. It is a fascinating model, and I came here in hopes of finding a critical discussion of it. Of course, I wasn't disappointed. I still find it a bit difficult to follow how they can really make money, given the relatively small amount of money I would be sending them each month for their share of my electric bill. It just seems like the investment on their part would take a really long time to recoup, just as is the major barrier-to-entry for an individual to purchase a system. I imagine its a question of driving the costs way down through economies of scale in production. In any case, as some proponents have pointed out, why wouldn't I sign up if there isn't any financial risk?

Not being a real financial guy, I may be way off with this, but couldn't the business model they have adopted be driven by the need to show a bank/investors a true customer base to acquire funding? If I were an investor/bank and they came to me with: a) thousands of contracts (including the capital from downpayments) and b) a legitimate technology model showing that they will in fact be able to manufacture at the quality and cost that would make it profitable, this is what I would need to see to provide capital investment. It sounds like this may be what CitizenRe might be working toward, which seems reasonable to me.

Steven

Steven, I believe we were the folks representing Citizenre as independent Ecopreneurs at the Chicago Center for Green Technology Green Home Fair.

It is a complicated issue, as to how Citizenre does plan to gain enough revenue to make it all work. But, it has been well planned and thought out for years, and the final touches are being applied as we speak. The model is sound and has all bases covered. The legal and financial support is being handled by very astute, reputable and successful firms--See the press release on our site www.rentalsolar.com .

It is a way to make solar simple for the masses. No longer will you have to practically be an engineer with tons of money to research systems to buy. Citizenre has removed all the barriers. The only barrier now is time...time to wait for the plant to start delivering sytems to the installation franchises. My belief --- that will be by late summer of 08'. The first production of panels is expected to be at the end of the first quarter of 08'. That limited production will be used for test systems, and UL listing.

Actually, the very first actual customer installation was done and filmed 3-4 weeks ago in California. It was filmed for the Living with Ed TV show on HGTV--Ed Begley is our company spokesperson. The panels used for the system were made by another company (with similar specs).

I have spent the summer going to festivals and fairs talking to homeowners. And it is a joy to see peoples reaction to the prospect of getting all their electricity cleanly generated with no investment or maintenance costs, AND saving on their electric bill on the very first month. And the greatest thing that they are MOST excited about, is that low monthly electric generation rental rate is lower than their current utility rate and it is frozen for 25 years.

When they are told that they have to wait in line for a year or more for this, they have no problems with that at all. They tell me that they wouldn't be buying a solar PV system anyway--much too expensive.

Check it out... there are even more exciting aspects to the program that add icing to the cake.

The greatest thing to ME, is that I can see earning a good living, not only for me but for many others that understand this opportunity.

Sustainable Business in Sustainable Energy!

Dan

So, here I am checking back after almost a year and while Citizenre's marketing tactics have gotten slicker and they seem to have found every non-technical idealist around to tout for them they still have NOTHING to show for it. There are no solar panels, no factory, no inverters, no NABCEP certified installers signed up, etc.etc.etc. I'll check in in another year to update you all, but I suspect I'll just have to copy and paste this post.

I am a big fan of Ed Begley and saw this on his show recently . I am definitely interested in helping the invironment and saving some money doing it . Since some of you have answered some questions for other posters on here , maybe someone can answer mine too .
1. We are in the process of buying a house and have rented a house close to it for 5 years . How will they be able to figure my bills on the house since I have not lived there yet ? The house we are living in now is substancially smaller than the house we are buying .
2. What if there is a power outage ? Will we be in the dark during that time ?
3. We will not close on the house for about 3 more weeks , should I wait until closing to contact them about the possibility of getting this system ?
4. Would we at that time still qualify for the waiver of deposit fee?
5. What if we produce more electricity than we use ? Do we get a credit for that ?
6. If we use all we produce plus some from the current carrier and their rates have gone up since we got our system , are we going to pay for the extra from the provider at their rate or the rate we are locked into ?
7. How much room will the equipment take up inside the house , not counting the on the roof panels ?
8. Who do I contact to ask these questions to at the company ? I do not see a link for contacting them by email . Is there a phone number or email address to contact someone with my questions and concerns.
I have been doing alot of organic gardening to save the environment and now I want to do more with the solar movement too . I am not a rich person so this system sounds like it would work for me . Thanks a bunch if anyone can help it would be greatly appreciated .

As the owner of a solar installation company we have been trying to put together a rental or lease to own program, trying to make it affordable. Trying to put something like that together using their numbers would be impossible for us. After going over our business plan with our states department of energy, and energy provider, and local electric co-op, we are waiting for the IRS to make a decision. The federal incentive of 30% with a cap, for a homeowner did not apply because they would not own the system. If we were to install it, as if it were a business we are trying to get the 30% with no cap, per system installed. That would help defray our cost. Then we would have to charge more than a $500 deposit, closer to $1500. Then we would have to charge more than the electric company, about .13 per kwh. The free moving of the system doesn't compute either. I would like to see their plan work but I don't see the numbers.

It is a big pyramid scam. Spoke with the ceo diretly and they do not have any funding. They keep pushing the date back from 2005. 2006.... 2007...... 2008.... 2009........... People it is not going to happen.

Even with energy prices through the roof no one wants to fund them because they have no legitimate plan. If they did they would have people funneling money to get this off the ground.

No one has seen an actual solar system they put together or a location of this mysterious plant that is supposedly going to be the biggest in the country. It is the biggest alright, biggest joke.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.......

Ed Begley jumped ship. We contacted him on his living with ed site and a spokesperson said that they no longer support Renu Citizenre as they will never get the funding they will need to get this off the ground and actually started. Then they replace Ed with some no name builder what a joke. Renu Citizenre is just wasting everyones time. When you contact them they keep spewing we are almost finished finalizing the funding. Well it has been 3 years and nothing has even started. They have no money, no funding, no factory, they have not made a single panel, nor have they installed a single installation other then the publicity stunt on Living with ed. With fuel prices and the economy at it;s lowest you would think companies would fund this, except that companies are seeing it for what it is, a pyramid scheme.

copied and pasted from a year ago:

So, here I am checking back after almost a year and while Citizenre's marketing tactics have gotten slicker and they seem to have found every non-technical idealist around to tout for them they still have NOTHING to show for it. There are no solar panels, no factory, no inverters, no NABCEP certified installers signed up, etc.etc.etc. I'll check in in another year to update you all, but I suspect I'll just have to copy and paste this post.
October 15, 2007 2:48 AM | click here to report abuse flag a problem

You would think that such an investment would make news. It didn't because it ain't.

I signed up as an "Ecopeneure" with Citizenre in November 2008, Other than the online training which indocternates as to what they plan on doing, I have not received any corrispondance from anyone. I signed up because as an independant residential infrastructure contractor I was hopping to at least get some work as a franchisee. nothing! Even if they get it off the ground, their are a few issues that I think will doom it. First, the REnU branch is the MLM that will be renting to residential home owners and only to residential. they are not allowed to go to small business!. Second, They are saying this system is a closed system, all the componentes are designed to work only with their own stuff. their will be no connection for anyother source like wind, geothermal, generator power, or storage sytem. Third, They will only place a system if the house is already connected to an electric provider (Retail Electric Provider) and that account MUST remain in effect so each month the home owner will have 2 electric bills, one from REnU for the amount they have been paying, and the other from there REP for minimum service (0kWh) if the Citizenre system does everything it is suposted to do. It will NOT generate any extra power to sell back to the grid to help offset its cost! Infact if the customer starts to use less power, by converting to CFLs or something, Citizenre will actualy come out and remove pannels to reduce output!
I do not think this is a scam! they have not requested any money from me and just momentaraly got my hopes up! I think it is just an overly optomistic peace core mentality gone wild.