While this sounds cool, I don't really know what it means. Who will be getting the wind power?

Is it like a Terrapass, except just for wind power?

hi brian - this is info that i've found so far on the subject:
"your purchase ensures that wind farms add renewable energy to the national grid on your behalf."
i'm sure there will be more to come as the word begins to spread. thanks for the comment.
- KD

I must be missing something here. Are you saying this is essentially some sort of charitable donation -- to a power generation company?!

When you buy green power from your power company, you're not paying for a physical product that's delivered to your house; electricity doesn't function like that. The green power surcharge that you're paying is for them to increase green power going into the grid, in roughly the amount that you use, which improves the capacity of green power production by investing in the infrastructure. When you buy this card, you're doing the same: the amount of green power you purchase is produced and goes into the grid, and the infrastructure is strengthened. The difference is that now you don't need to rely on your power company to offer a green purchasing program, you can buy it from Whole Foods.

I'm lost on this one also. I get a bill from Con Ed for the power I use. How does this card relate to my bill? In buying the card I'm purchasing a block of wind generated power. Does Con Ed then count this card purchase against my bill? Why am I going to pay to put power on the grid that others will use or that can't be counted against my bill?

"When you buy green power from your power company, you're not paying for a physical product that's delivered to your house; electricity doesn't function like that."

I beg to differ, but electricity is not merely some vague abstract concept. It is something which has actual physical manifestation. At least that's the story our profs where telling us in engineering school. But what did they know!?

"The green power surcharge that you're paying is for them to increase green power going into the grid, in roughly the amount that you use, which improves the capacity of green power production by investing in the infrastructure. When you buy this card, you're doing the same: the amount of green power you purchase is produced and goes into the grid, and the infrastructure is strengthened."

That's all very nice, but since I receive neither a product or service in return for my money, nor do I recieve a stock certificate or dividends, then wouldn't that be the very definition of a charity ... or self-imposed tax? And if I'm going to be donating to a charity, then surely I could think of several more deserving recipients than a power company.

Or did I miss the part about these so-called "green" power producers generating electricity out of the goodness of their hearts, rather than with the intent of making a profit?

I might just as well walk into a car dealership or a furniture store, hand them a wad of cash and say, "Thanks, but you can keep your product. Please make sure to use this money to make more cars and furniture. Have a nice day!"

"The difference is that now you don't need to rely on your power company to offer a green purchasing program, you can buy it from Whole Foods."

This is really beginning to sound like an elaborate variation on some sort of cunning Ponzi scheme. Why bother, when there are such lucrative investment opportunities arriving in my e-mail from Nigeria, every week?

Chris, the card is nothing but an out-and-out request for free money. RCE is trying to build more windmill farms, and is trying to get the public to pay for it. When you buy a card, you get nothing. You don't get any wind-electricity to your home, you don't get a tax deduction, you don't get any investment. They shouldn't even call it a "credit".

Most companies seek investors to secure capital funding. But RCE is asking for free money under the context of "do you part to help the environment". Slick.

Milton:

Hey, practically everyone goes to engineering school these days. :) While electricity has effects on physical matter, it's dubious whether something composed of subatomic charged particles that diffract like waves, and to which the Heisenberg uncertainty principle applies, can be considered physical matter itself. (That Heisenberg thing makes it pretty hard to trade in electricity like it's a physical product - quantum theory just doesn't apply to most things we purchase.) It's far more intimately related to magnetism, which isn't physical matter, either. Sure, in the 18th century, they thought electricity was a fluid, but that started disappearing as a school of thought in the 19th century.

In short, yes, you do get a service for the surcharge. Whether or not you think the service is worth the surcharge you pay for it is entirely up to you, the same as whether or not you think eating local food is worth the extra cost or a scam, or whether you think wearing organic clothing is worth the price or just a subsidy for clothing manufacturers. We all draw our line somewhere.

How much of that $15 does Whole Foods get?

I've been trying to get a straight answer about these programs for a long time. Who is profiting (financially) from this and other "green credits." Giving money to a wind farm doesn't eliminate the exhaust out of the jet I want to fly on. Nor does it "offset" it. It's there, you can smell it. And producing google-watts of solar/wind energy doesn't change that. If the money were spent on containing existing green-house gasses, such as planting trees or pumping it underground, at least I would feel like I am helping something other than a company's financial security.

It's so American (which I am) to try to buy clean air and a clean conscious rather than working a little for it. Next thing you know we'll outsource our clean energy to an impoverished nation to get a discount.

Sounds like a bunch of BS like carbon offsets. Send me a check for your carbon offsets and I'll make sure it gets used properly, wink, wink

"Hey, practically everyone goes to engineering school these days. :)"

Although, aparently not all of us have studied engineering, viz:

"While electricity has effects on physical matter, it's dubious whether something composed of subatomic charged particles that diffract like waves, and to which the Heisenberg uncertainty principle applies, can be considered physical matter itself."

No one ever said it was -- at least for more than a century. Not exactly a news flash.

"(That Heisenberg thing makes it pretty hard to trade in electricity like it's a physical product"

Again, nobody ever said it was a "physical product", yet energy is widely traded, like any other commodity. If you don't believe me, just stop paying your hydro bill, and see what happens. Maybe your power company will listen to you Heisenberg explanations and let you have electricity for free? Good luck with that.

"In short, yes, you do get a service for the surcharge."

Well, that is the esscence of my question: what, exactly, is this so-called "service"?

"Whether or not you think the service is worth the surcharge you pay for it is entirely up to you"

So you're saying this mysterious "service" (whatever it is) has absolutely no objective value? If that's the case, I might just as well trade the family cow for a sack of magic beans, and convince myself I didn't get ripped-off.

"the same as whether or not you think eating local food is worth the extra cost or a scam"

Why should "local" food cost extra? If anything, it should be cheaper. Obviously, it's cheaper for me to go to the supermarket two blocks away, than drive to a supermarket in the next city, all other factors being equal. I'm not sure what you're getting at?

"or whether you think wearing organic clothing is worth the price or just a subsidy for clothing manufacturers."

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure all my articles of clothing are made with materials of long-chain carbon molecules in one form or another. Well, except for my pure titanium pants and pure magnesium bathrobe. But they're not very comfortable, so I don't wear them much.

is this kind of like terra pass???

http://www.terrapass.com/index.html