Home Depot Selling Solar to Mainstream America

Bravo.

Exactly what I was waiting for.

I just signed up for the in-home consultation and it wasn't until AFTER I finished that I was told solar installation wasn't avialable in my area. A little pathetic.

How much?

How much? Great question. Bottom line: You wouldn't install PV on your home just to save money. Here's some general numbers that I've seen from various sources. I doubt Home Depot can do much better, since the demand for PV panels currently exceeds supply/production capability. Solar is still has a lifecycle cost of .20-.30/kwh without incentives/rebates. Most rebates and tax incentives end up covering about half the cost of a solar system. A typical 1000 Watt installed solar system that provides 85% of a home's power would cost $22,000 ($11,000 with rebates and incentives). This would be about a 15 year simple payback for most homeowners.

I need to buy this system who should I contact???????

Well, after reading the information Vince supplied it is obvious why I don't see Solar panels on all my neighbors roofs. At $22,000, and even after wrangling the rebates and incentives from the state, that cost is just too high. And who of my neighbors will still live here in 15 years when the break even point is attained. We need everyone to make money off my installation and it still needs to cost me only a few thousand dollars. And I need my electric bill to be a credit the very next month. Until this happens there is never going to be a major shift to some other energy source, no matter what good intentions people have.

$11,000 is a bit low, especially if you are dealing with the Home Depot. I was the first person to sell a system through them, and it was more than twice that price. There are some technological breakthroughs that we hope to see come to market in the near future, but the reality is that many of those innovations never see the light of day, so to speak. There are some influential producers of power (ahem) that don't want to see solar succeed in taking some of their business away, so we should really focus on what exists today.

Financially, the long and short of it is that PV systems do eventually pay for themselves, but it is not a quick payback at today's electricity prices. If those rates go up, payback time goes down. If you factor the price of a PV system into your mortgage (ie refinance for 30 years), you can fix your monthly payments and be smiling when others are complaining about rising electricity costs.

living in an all electric powered house , Im looking to add a security system and another heat and air zone . is it possible and economical to make these addittions solar ?

Does anyone know what an 85% solar system adds to the resale value of a home?

Maybe it's just me, but with a price tag of $11,000 - $22,000 and a relatively good income of over $70,000/yr, I would say that it is still only available to the rich and celebreties (Perhaps this is one of the reasons the Governator thinks it's obtainable.)

You'll notice no salesman in the solar power industry talks about maintenance. Anyone who buys a home quickly learns that things need fixing. Eventually everything needs fixing. Usually at a very inconvenient time.

So lets say I install a solar power system for 20 thousand dollars, I can now look forward to not having an energy bill for 15 or 20 years? I don't think so.
Solar panels, like the shingles on your house, sit in extreme cold, extreme heat, rain, wind and dust that blows through the air.
I have a feeling they'll need to be replaced before 15 years are up.
I have little solar lights in my driveway, and they have worked great. For about three years.
Now the solar panels on them have yellowed in the sun and are not as efficient as they were new. The batteries need replacing.

I know these are just little cheap solar garden lights, but I don't think the technology is that far removed from a home system.

How long does the battery in your car last? 5 years? 7 years? Hey, lets go crazy and say 10 years.

10 years after buying your solar system the batteries will need replacing. and I'm guessing so will the solar panels.

That basically makes my electric bill 20 thousand dollars over a period of 10 years, or 2000 a year.

I'm not against solar power, I just hope people have sense enough to know that like any appliance, it will eventually go south on you.

It seems to me that $22,000 is only the price of your average Toyota car. If a person gets rid of one car they can easily go solar. Most households in America have three cars. It wouldn't take much effort to rearrange life to get by with two or even one car. There is even a term for it: going car-lite.

I think the way to look at this is as a valuable and interesting hobby. People can always find plenty of money for their hobbies when they want to.

Somebody has to be wise enough to make the first move and ignore what their neighbors say.

re: dave mordal's concern about maintenance and solar panel replacement:
Most solar panels on the market today have a 25 year/85% warranty on their output - meaning, that the manufacturers are guaranteeing that the panels will still produce power at a level of a minimum of 85% of their original production levels 25 years after they are installed. There are many panels out there now that were installed over 30 years ago that are still cranking out power, and the technology has only improved since those were produced and installed. This is a good indication that today's panels could feasibly be generating power for up to 40 or 50 years. And it is true that all they typically require for maintenance is an occasional cleaning if they become too dusty or catch a lot of bird droppings.

You will, however, likely have to replace the INVERTER component of your system once or twice during that 25 year panel warranty period. Many inverters now come with a 10 year warranty. The inverter is doing all the "hard work" of the system, converting the DC power produced by the system to AC power we use in our homes. However, the inverter is generally only about 10% of the cost of the overall system.
If you are speaking with solar installers who don't give you this information about the long-term expectations and projected maintenance, you should find another installer. I've heard several companies touting solar as "maintenance-free power!!", which is just a soundbite term. A reputable installer should provide you complete information about the realistic performance expectations of their products.

one more point re: dave mordal comments:

I overlooked your comment regarding the batteries needing replaced after 10 years...
Today's solar installations, and definitely the work Home Depot is doing, are primarily GRID-TIED systems. THat means they do not use batteries at all! They simply work like this: the panels produce DC power when the sun is out, it runs through the Inverter, then feeds the loads required at that moment in your home first, before pushing out into the grid through the "net meter" the utility will provide you when you install the system. The net meter is a bi-directional electric meter that spins forward as usual when you are using more power in your home than you are producing with your panels (at night, for instance), and spins BACKWARD when you are producing more with your system than you are using in your home. This is how you generate credits with your utililty.

Battery-based PV systems are great for end-of-line (with frequent power outages) or remote off-grid situations, but are really unnecessary for most of us who already live on the utility grid. Batteries add up to 50% or more to the cost of a system, are filled with toxic lead and other chemicals, and typically require a significant amount of maintenance. Battery storage of PV produced power just isn't the way to go unless it's necessary for a specific situation.

I've been interested in solar energy for some time now, but I've heard a lot of people wondering about whether solar panels can be damaged from hail or other things. I'm sure a tree falling on your house could damage the solar panels, but could simple hail or sleet?
-Drew-

I'm considering the future use of electric vehicles or plug in vehicles - will solar energy, i.e. panels be justified if this addiitional requirement is added to the economic equation? Can such vehicles be integrated into the panel circuitry?

Just want to add something here that everyone seems to be dancing around but not realizing. The cost/benefit analysis of a solar system is not just about the energy cost saving. There is also the added value to your home. If you can save 10% of the cost of your system every year in electric bills, then you could easily say you've increased the value of your home MORE than your investment. This is because it's very hard to find a reliable investment that gives you a 10% return on your investment. Roughly speaking, if you can get a 5 to 6% of your systems cost back in energy cost savings every year, then you are about breakng even. Besides - we prospective buyers of your home learn that they can eliminate electric bills in an environmentally friendly home - it will make your house more appealing.

I don't know if everyone is keeping up with the tax incentives lately, but they have been getting much better lately. Florida is offering up to a $20,000 rebate for residential systems of 2kw or more. The federal incentives are 30% up to $2,000. So that $22,000 system referred to above may really only cost $11,000 after rebates and incentives.

My home electric bill averages $450 a month - so a $11,000 investment that could save $5,400 (12 x 450) a year would be the best performing investment in my portfolio.

array use is on day time, we use to work on day time, so waste of money........... (not sundays )

Great news. I hope they have more luck than ourselves in the UK. The goverment announced a couple of years ago that they would provide a 'renewables fund' for home solar. It sort of wokred, all the money budgeted to provide loans was used up, just much, much faster than they expected (six months instead of twelve). Unfortunately after this the goverment refused to provide anymore funds. Hopefully California will allocated a long term or 'sustainable' budget for home solar and other energy effectient systems (e.g home wind turbines perhaps?).

Has anyone heard of "do it yourself" installation. I have reading up and from what I see, it really would not be that difficult to install the panels oneself (if you are mechanically minded that is).

Hi folks,

BP Solar systems have a warrantee of 25 years, so any assumption they won't last should keep this in mind.

Battery systems are not as economical as grid-tied systes because you usually don't get a rebate if you're not connected to the grid and the cost of the batteries, and replacement of the batteries takes away from the energy payback.

Home depot is doing a fairly good job compared to what was available a few years ago.

Let's see PV everywhere!

Hi

Looking for more information on how to design a PV solar system, or how much it will cost? Looking for more information on the different components of PV systems and the different designs of PV systems?

Take a look at http://www.roanakh.com - it has a lot of information and automated tools to design you PV system and estimate the cost of the system.

Krishna

I have a solar system on my house off grid. I make about 4.0 kw=800+ watts. Useing forklift batterys that last 5 to 7 years and up, they work good. 24 volt power inverter and 60 amp charge controller, I used big wires from each set of panels where they are fixed mounted to. Each set has its on wires going to the bigger wire, where they sit.10g going to 8 g going to my garage where my controller is. I have about 15,000 in it. I only have three batterys I need four to run ac unit at night. I started off with 12volt system and gave up on trying to run my house off that.Need a inverter with an good charger builded in to it. I learned the hot water heat draws alot of power, so I got one that only comes on when you turn your water on.2,000 in batterys I bought used, and one new. two 12 volts and the other one is 24 volts 510 amp hours.You must have a generator for bad days when there is no sun. On cloudy days I still get 2.2 kwatts.

I have another thought that I never hear mentioned about solar... what happens when you have a hail storm? For those of us who live in tornado alley, we very often see golfball sized hail, and sometimes as large as softballs or even grapefruit. Will your homeowners insurance pay to replace all those panels, or are you just out your system? Also, how many people properly ground thier systems against lightning? Check your policies... might require a rider, if they cover at all.

Selling Renewable Energy (Solar Etc.) Without Incentives
In short, we need to market solar as an investment that will save money while you own it and return most or all of your investment when you sell the building it's sitting on.

Chances are, as natural gas and oil prices go up, there will be a corresponding jump in your monthly electricity bill. So, instead of promoting a solar power system based on today's savings in electricity, we need to have easily understandable projections on what the savings will be over the life of a system. These numbers need to reflect what's really happening to the cost of energy!
Here are some ideas I'd like to share. First, we need to find a way to make renewable energy economically competitive without the tax incentives. We do this by answering the question: "What is the opportunity cost of not using solar to decrease your energy bill?"

There's something interesting I've found. There's a direct correlation among electrical rates, the cost of air conditioning a building, the heat index and the amount of sunshine on any given day. In other words, on the hottest, sunniest days, we use more electricity that costs more per kilowatt. So, why do we continue to promote average hours of solar production, when in fact (at least down here in California), we produce far more solar power per day during the heat of the summer when energy costs are highest, than we do in our temperate winter months when energy costs are lowest. A sound marketing approach would be to evaluate solar energy in "dollars" of production per year instead of in kilowatts. I'm sure there are some smart people out there who can match kilowatts of solar production on any given day of the year to what the rates will be (based on the projected costs of electricity).
Secondly, we should stop trying to sell a solar package as a "cost." In real estate, there is a principle that says anything affixed to real estate becomes an integral part of the real estate. Once a solar package is installed, it immediately increases the value of a property. So how can you predict how much more a building will be worth in 5-10 years with a package as opposed to without one? In the real estate appraisal business, there are three approaches to appraising a property. The market approach (what are comparable properties selling for), the reproduction cost (the cost of creating an identical building at current construction and material prices) and the actual original cost adjusted for inflation. In all three methods, there's a strong case that a system installed today will make the building worth more today and in future years.
We need some realistic numbers to predict how much more a property will be worth in the years following installation. I believe that if you sell a building 5-10 years after installing solar, you should recoup all of your investment in the system plus an added bonus. If the rumors are true, a residential system (using the market approach) adds $20 of value to a home for every $1 it saves on the electric bill.
For commercial appraisals, you would divide the income (savings) by a cap rate (which was about 9% at last report). A system that saves $2000 a year then would be worth $40,000 on a home or $25,000 on a business. But if the cost of electricity goes up (if that is remotely possible), then wouldn't the value of the solar power system increase as well? In reality, we are not selling something that costs — we are actually offering a financial investment that grows comparably with other forms of energy.
In short, we need to market solar as an investment that will save money while you own it and return most or all of your investment when you sell the building it's sitting on. In commercial real estate, they use a "Cash Flow Analysis" form as the tool to evaluate a building's value using the income approach. We need a similar tool for putting a value on solar. If solar makes sense with this approach, then just think of how much better the systems look when you add the tax advantages!
This approach also applies to the cost of Energy efficiency implementation.
Reducing operational costs increases the value of the business and or property.
Compiled by Jay Draiman, Energy analyst
12/1/2007

20 years ago, my mother (who's now passed away in her 80s) made her own solar panels with the help of a buddy) so it can't be that hard!

How about quitting smoking, and using the valuable money saved to finance a solar system? :-)

Wow. Thanks. I thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's comments regarding this issue. Living in the midwest, my main concern would be that in the winter months we don't see a lot of sunshine and when we do it seems like it is too far away to make a difference. I imagine that solar power users in my area likely split their reliance on electricity as well. I must read more about this concept!

The real benefit of solar is the benefit to the self employed and commissioned Americans. Several times a year I am darn close to being cut off by the power company and I am still a few days away from my commission check or waiting on accounts recievable. same with the water bill. Solar makes me very comfortable in that it's not a monthly payment.
I have the well.

Now I dream about solar

And this is coming from a staunch Republican

I see Solar Energy as real solution for other countries. Example, Karachi Pakistan is one of the worlds' larger and more cosmopolitian cities but right now has a major problem with reliable energy. Many of my family and friends report 4 - 6 hours of power from the grid per day. Most people resort to diesel powered generators to run their homes and businesses. Now, I am no math major but to me $10 - 20,000 for non-diesel reliable energy would be a boom. I equate this to the development of the cell phone around the world in many of the same places where land lines had never been fully implemented.
I do not see Solar Energy as a viable home by home solution here in the United States of America, not at the $10-20,000 price tag. If my power bill averages $75 a month how can I justify taking on a debt of $10-20,000 plus the financing of that money to replace a $75 a month bill for the exact or less than equal to service?

Hello, I'm currently researching solar power for my house. I had no idea what it would cost a fwe minutes ago, but now knowing the $15,000-$20,000 price tag does not bother me.

It's the same price as an average car, and people pay that all the time. it's not like you'd need to pay it all in one chunk either. I'm sure it can be financed just like car.

I'm not interested in solar power to save money. I'm interested in it to save the planet.

I know there's a lot of people out there like me. Forget all the financial break-even points, that's not the point.

I'm not saying it's bad, or that I'll reject rebates and what not. I'm just saying that those things are not WHY many of us even do it in the first place.

Curt is right, there are more compelling reasons to buy solar than the financial ones ... primaily the "green" aspect. However, for solar electric systems to really become "mainstream" they need to make financial sense. In my opinion they already do even with NO money out of pocket.

If you are able to take a home equity line of credit or secure other financing for the system you can make small payments that are offset by electric savings and tax savings (interest on the loan.) Depending upon your current local electric rate, you could be cash flow positive from day 1. The long term affect of rising electric rates will only put more "money in your pocket."

Consider also the impact the system has on resale. While actual appraisal info is yet to be determined, the several appraisal publications have valued energy savings in a 20 to 1 ratio to value, meaning if you save $1,000 per year you up the home value by $20,000. That is the primary reason that financing is such a viable alternative. The bank knows the equity needed to "secure" the loan is created with a properly functioning system.

How much does it cost

I know from earlier posts, home depot provides these systems, but where in New York do they provide this service? They never advertise it. What other companies provide it?

Thanks!

I think that, in general, people try to make excuses for why they shouldn't make wise decisions (ie buying in bulk is too big a hassle, bringing lunch to work is boring, etc.).

Solar power is not only for the extremely rich. Whenever you buy a new (or used) home, you typically take out a loan for hundreds of thousands of dollars- so why not simply (yes, simply) take out another 20,000 and install solar panels?

If the decision is purely economical, you will in the vast majority of cases make good on your investment (even with interest on your mortage) by means of energy savings with 10 years still left on your warantee and 2 or more decades left on your mortage... All the while, these payments are made easier because you can take the money that you would typically use on your electricity bill to pay down your mortage.

And if you have to sell before your investment pays off? Sell the home for more!!! Who wouldn't want a home where energy was already taken care of?

If everyone thought like this, then eventually all old homes would have solar power installed and all new homes would be built with it. Then- it wouldn't even be a thought in our minds, just the status quo... And John Lennon's dream of the world living as one will be one step closer to still never happening.

Interesting reads from the past couple years or so-Common sense tells us today that alternate energy is an absolute, if available and realistic for home use. Deciding up front if you plan on using it for electricity, heat, or both need to be considered, and then a careful planning of the system to suit your home's needs. Since I am constructing a new home, electric use is first on my list, and having the plumbing and wiring installed for heating at a later date. This is doable in my budget. And the home will have utility as a backup, in addition to wind power. I am not screwing around. It is a worthwhile investment and will gladly keep up to date here my experience after home is finished and system up and running.

Note: Solar system will use deep cycle batteries and enough power for all electric needs in the home, Wind power is another great option to look into-check it out if it makes sense for your situation. A homesite assesment can determine that.All info can be found on the internet if you are a do-it yourselfer like I am.

I live about 20 miles south of Green Bay, WI

Todd H

This article interested me. I'm going to buy a house in Riverside soon, and I contacted Home Depot about putting some solar panels on. They just contract out, but I'm sure they only use really reputable installers. Still I want to make sure I use someone local without breaking my bank. I've even considered seeing if the other real estate agent would put solar power on the sales contract, because the real estate market here is so bad we can try to ask for anything it seems.

Using solar power as an incentive is based on the real estate model described by Adam Edward Rothwell, a real estate professional and attorney at www.solarpowerandrealestate.com But I don't know though how many agents actually use it.

I think down the road solar power will become a fundamental part of more real estate transactions, and I don't know how large companies like Home Depot will react to any new trends that may limit their reach. But anyone who uses sustainable energy is doing a good thing. So I wonder how many solar installations Home Depot has really down in the past couple years.

Lots of good comments here, but I noticed the comments of an 85% solar system. Typically you want a 50% system, it costs less ($8-$16K) and will offset your electric bill substantially. PV companies will only quote a 15 year payoff, but in reality with today's energy costs, most home owners pay them off in 7-10 years provided you live in a nice sunny location like I do in southern Colorado.
Darrell's comments are right-on, but unfortunately I don't see the world sitting around the camp fire singing cumbiya anytime in the near or distant future. On the other hand think of it this way... if we all installed a grid tied systems and pushed power back to the energy grid the need for fossil fuel for generating electric would diminish... at least during the sunny part of the day. The energy companies may not be thrilled with this idea, but on the other hand they would own the renewable energy credits we all produce and they can sell them for free money.

How about instead of celebs, politicians and other "Green" hypocrits buying carbon credits/offsets (while they fly around in their private jets, live in their insanely kwh consuming homes and own fleets of gas guzzling SUV's), they buy solar panels for residential homes. The cost of these solar panels just amazes me. I could practically cover my roof with 42" Plasma or LCD TV's for the same price solar panels cost right now! (Yes I know I'm exagerating a bit)

These "Green" hypocrits can keep telling me to save the planet by buying compact flourescent lights bulbs for my home while their home uses more kwh hours in a month than I consume all year!

Or keep telling me to buy hybrid cars or more fuel efficient vehicles while you fly across the globe in your private jet that burns more gallons of gas in day than all of my cars burn in a year.

Wondering when/if renewable power (solar/wind/geo thermal) will ever be affordable,
Brian B

I read all these comments and agree with most. The one thing I would like to bring up is with the power companies. Every year in the desert southwest, we are asked to conserve power in the summer months to prevent the "rolling blackout" that occured years ago due to high demand and not enough supply. So we bust our butts and conserve power. Then what happened: We did such a great job of saving energy that the local power company did not reach their sales predictions and goals. So what did they do: they went before the Public Utilities Commision and asked to raise rates. The PUC didnt approve the rate hike they asked for, but they got a smaller hike. No matter how much energy we save, the rates are still going to rise for this very reason.

This is the exact kind of crap that will make me convert to solar power. No matter how hard I try to save a few dollars and conserve, the rates will still go up and I will be looking at a $300-$400 per month power bill (or even higher).

The monthly savings: Yes worth the cost.
The added value to my home: Yes worth the cost.
Doing my little part to save the planet: Yes,worth the cost.
Being able to give the finger to the power company and say "I don't need you anymore!": PRICELESS.

when will solar technology be available in shingles style. no one wants big ugly pannels on their roofs. non-directional soloar technology in shigles are availabe today in Japan. why is the US so far behind? the US building industry is slow to adopt new technology. in plumbing and electrical. is it government regulations that hinder this growth or is it a lazy industry that doesn't like change?

Responding to Darrell's comments above about making "excuses" to not purchase solar panels. I completely disagree with his logic. In this market, it *has* to be an essentially economic decision, and a wise on at that. With home values plummeting, we have to be careful of how much debt one adds to the value of a home. It wont make much difference if the bank is saving money on your vacant repo'd home if you can't pay the mortgage or the credit line you used to buy the panels. Quoting John Lennon to guilt someone into this major purchase is unfortunate. Consider that he asks you to "imagine no possessions" - you will be without your major possession if you unwisely spend on new technology.

Our responsibility is to force the companies to cut their insane profits by not buying until the prices align with the cost. We can also help the lesser fortunate moreso by pressuring our lawmakers to enact better incentives to lower or share costs with the manufacturers, power companies, and government coffers.

If we feel we have to buy into the latest, popular Green Fad, what is stopping the manufacturers from gouging us?

Well I have wanted to go solar since I first heard that it was really possible.
But with the cost of homes in LA I'll never own one, so I tend to be a long term renter.
I know that My landlord would not care if I installed a solar system but even though I am a long term renter I will move at some point in time.
So the reality is that I would not be able to benifit from the system anyway because the benifits scaling is always over a 30 year period,
And since it's not my property I can't use it as a write off.
So if the intent is to get more people into using solar then there has to be more flexible solutions

What if my roof was about 20x100 sq ft. About how much would HOME DEPOT charge me?

Another factor that seems to be ignored:

There is pending legislation in Cali to mandate the use of electric meters that will allow the state and/or the utility to remotely control your thermostat.

In Oregon, Portland General Electric is "upgrading" houses with dubiously-named "Smart meters" which have the capability to be tied into the home's thermostat and other high-load devices, so the power company can remotely control your electric usage.

For me the economics of off-the-grid solar has little to do with saving money. It's a simple question of "can I afford to tell the government and power company to go pound sand?" You think solar adds value to a house now? Wait 'til having off-the-grid solar = independence & privacy. That system will add even more value to the home.

A home power system is in the same cost ballpark as a nicer new sedan (Acura or similar). It's expensive, but not completely out of reach. Once I own a home, I will find a way to finance such a system, because I will not be subjected to the state or the power company having control over my personal energy usage.

What about HOAs??

For my builder, the HOA contract says "Solar panels of any derivation may not be visible from the street or adjacent property. Protective structures may be used to obscure the solar panels, provided the structures are not obtrusive to the roof design, do not modify the roof structure, or detract from the overall appearance of the home."
Well, from one point or another, standing on the ground, you can see the entire roof. I can't figure out any way a "structure" could hide the panels without shading the panels, which defeats the purpose.

I've checked around, many Home Owners Associations for new home construction prohibit solar panels. Apparently this is standard procedure while the builders are in control of the HOA. After construction is complete, and the home owners assume control from the builder, they may change the HOA rules at that later point.

Just to make the point. It is an investment. If you can understand buying a house instead of renting. You should understand, that if a 15 or 20 year loans projected monthly payments are less than your current monthly electrical costs. Then YOUR MAKING MONEY.....

Now a question. Does anyone know what the costs for example for a $20,000 system would be on the environment. It made out of what? How is it disposed of? What amount of energy is used to make it?

If it takes an equivalent of $250 in fossil fuels to make a panel that creates $275 of energy in 25 years what the point. I haven't beeen able to find the answer to this question.

I am currently working with Sharpe Solar out of Bakersfield, CA through the home depot. The system the quoted me on cost $28,005 after CA rebates, installed. The real cost is in the low $40K's. I will be able to get an additional $2,000 tax credit off my Federal Taxes at the end of the year. My current flat rate bill is about $195 a month. I have found a fixed rate loan 5.64% for $30K that will cost $208 a month. I will be able to take the interest off of the loan off my taxes (which I cannot do with my electric bill). I will be produce just under 5.0 Kw AC voltage which is how my CA rebate is calculated (via AC produced to the grid). The say my new bill will be about $6 a month. 12.6 years for system to pay for itself (20 years to pay the loan). Very minor change in finance inflow/outflow, plus I increase the value of my home.

Something I havent seen mentioned yet, if you are installing the panels onto an existing roof, IE not a new construction or recently replaced roof, what happens when the roof needs replacing. Also I haven't seen an answer for what happens if the panels are hit by hail. Which I am sure will totally ruin the panels...

we did the #'s. we currently pay $17 in the summer for gas and it jumps up to $80-90 max, on the coldest days, in the winter.

gas is going up 40% in the upcoming months.

I thought we should look into solar.

with all the incentives and rebates, the 10k install would be over 5 grand out of pocket.

we are on the market for a water heater to replace our current 80's one that is weakening. a new one, that will at least be a little more efficient, are about $700 installed.

tankless water heaters were under consideration, but after all the plumbing needed and labor costs, these puppies will take forever to pay for themselves at 3 grand.

if we save 50% on our gas bill we would need to live here over 12 years to get a system "to pay for itself".

we are not sure we will stay here that long...we might, but it isnt a guarantee.

for some of you that have multiple bathrooms and multiple people living in your homes, and use energy at more excess...this might be a good way to save money sooner.

for us? it is simply saving energy. we are already using sustainable energy through our utility company.

for young home owners that have plans for 2 kids and live in a modest 1100 sq foot home with one bathroom...it makes little sense to us.

According to the Home Depot website the panels are built to withstand one inch hailstones.

I congratulate California and all Californians for starting this initiative. In this sun rich country we still have obstructionists in our govt and in the private sector that are stifling the practical application of solar energy. Californians have turned out to be smarter than Israelis. I just may join my cousin out there in San Jose.

Wow alot of good info here. Thank you for all the posting postive and negitive. However I did see one Qusetion that was never answered or replied to, WHAT ABOUT HAIL and its effects on the panals?