Schwinn's New Line of Electric Bikes

I'm curious: What is this doing on Treehugger? Bikes work GRAND as designed, and adding electrical components and heavy metals only serves to make a bike more like a car and far more wasteful to boot. Electric bikes are not going to get people out of cars, folks. Instead, they're going to (and already do) create one more non-recyclable, toxic-laden, method of transportation for storage in the garage next to the cars, truck, motorcycle and bicycle. Sure, it's one more transportation choice, but is that what we are after? More choices? Again, like the RED campaign - it's 'saving the world through shopping'. Bah.

Tod, you must be young and perfectly healthy, to be so arrogant about a product that's clearly not designed or aimed at you. Many of us live on our bikes, but not all of us live in the Netherlands where it's nice and flat everywhere...if you have lung disease, arthritis, bad knees, you name it, you'll have problems pedaling uphill. A little power-assist now and then sure helps, and of course we can pedal zero-emissions style the rest of the way.

And hey, aren't you using a toxic-metals-laden computer to write this comment? Why aren't you writing in on bamboo paper using ink derived from fruit that agreed to be in the ink in the first place? (cf. Eddie Izzard) pot to kettle...come in please...

[JG: Hey folks, keep it civil.]

I totally agree with the second post.
My father would not be able to enjoy the outdoors as he does now without his E-Bike. He happens to have a bad hip from working construction as well as a number of other health issues and was unable to get out for bike rides with me. Since purchasing an electric bike, he can now join me for long rides no matter what the terrain and if he gets tired towards the end he goes on full electric. This has totally improved our relationship and he feels great to keep doing the things he loves to do like riding a bike. This is something most people take for granted. I have recently noticed a very negative feeling towards a few of the electric bike threads and I don't think everyone understands how much of an important step these are in creating a cleaner environment as well as getting the eldery and the high rate of obese children in North America out for some exercise. Even if they need a little help from an electric motor at least it's a push in the right direction...Ken

Wow, AJ-- talk about some backhanded civility. At any rate, I agree with one of Tod's main points. That being, does this entice or draw more people away from automobiles, and into greener transit? If so, great. But to those already inclined, regardless of physical health and ability to bike conventionally, they will be ones making the effort to travel O=C=O lightly. And if this catalyzes the urban/suburban cycling phenomenon we all know is secretly brewing beneath the chassis of a soccer mom's SUV, then right on!

Bottom line-- a little cynical realism to a blip on the green radar, that's keeping us honest.

P.S. I'm young and strapping too, biking wherever possible. I thought us young one were supposed to be the idealists?

Electric bikes are not going to get people out of cars, folks.

An electric bike got me out of my car. It took me a year of riding a Giant LA Free Lite electric bike to work before I was in decent enough shape to use my old road bike as a commuter vehicle. And then a year of riding that before I moved up to an Xtracycle-equipped cargo bike. And now that I've been riding that for a while, I'm thinking of adding a Stokemonkey electric assist, so I can use the bicycle for hauling loads I would otherwise have to borrow or rent a car to carry.

A bicycle is a realistic primary vehicle for me 75% of the time. An electric-assist bicycle is a realistic primary vehicle for me 95% of the time.

Sure, it's not as ideologically pure as an un-assisted bicycle, but it's a heck of a lot better than the station wagon I was driving a few years ago.

I'm a long time cyclist. I do huge pack rides, all day epic mountain bike rides, cyclocross races, fully loaded bike touring, etc. I had no car for a year and had to ride everywhere. Recreational riding and riding out of necessity are two different animals. I would certainly have appreciated a bike with electrical assist for all those mundane miles I rode without the company of other cyclists. Example: That 15 hilly mile ride home from work at 11PM in the dead of winter on mean streets after I'd been working on my feet all day.

Looks great!

To those dissing it, would you rather people drive a Hummer instead?

Anything that makes non-car transport easier is good.

Screw all the fighting...I want one of these bad boys NOW...when will these be available? Does anyone know?

Anyone know how much these will cost? or how fast the go?

By providing an honest, realistic, "gut" (for those fans of the Colbert Report) opinion of electric bikes and their prospects, of which I happen to say "ehh", I wouldn't exactly call that dissing.

But good that Anonymous read through the lines so clearly-- anyone ambivalent toward electric bikes must surely endorse Hummer ownership.

For people who have used biking to commute far longer than I, their enthusiasm is encouraging.

I have criticized some of the electric bicycles that have appeared on Treehugger. It's because they have been poor bikes not because they are electric. I am all for electric bikes but I have yet to see one that I would lay my money down on. A good one will appear one day, I'm sure.

I am yet another person that would benefit from an ebike. I have nursed for years, and have some on the job injuries that will, in all likelyhood, prevent me from any serious long distance biking. I also live in an extremely hilly port town. I want to abandon my car, and I even started riding the 5 miles to work, but the hills on the way back, mean I hitch a ride with the husband at the bottom of the hills. After riding all summer, I still can't push farther because of my previous injuries.

I have been pricing ebikes for months now, in hopes of gettin one by spring. I want to be able to do my shopping on a bike, too, and that just isn't possible given my physical condition right now.

I am very curious as to the price point of these bikes.

Indeed, to the original poster, this line of bikes would be perfect for me. I live in San Francisco, at the top of an insanely steep hill, in a hilly neighborhood. Going anywhere means wrecking my knees and spending more time trying to climb hills on a bike than it takes to walk. Eventually I just gave up and went back to using the car.

Thankfully my car runs on biodiesel (B100), but it would still be nice for cycling to be a viable option.

Sustainability = diversity

We've got 7+ billion different people on this planet, and no one form of transportation is going to be ideal for all those folks or for all situations. As I learned in elementary school, you've got to have the right tool for the job. This sexy electric bike is just one tool in the transportation toolbox.

But good that Anonymous read through the lines so clearly-- anyone ambivalent toward electric bikes must surely endorse Hummer ownership.

No, but what exactly do you want people to do? If they're not getting on a bike, they're using something else. Yeah, it's more "wasteful" than a plain old bike, but compared to a car or SUV? Come on.

For people who have used biking to commute far longer than I, their enthusiasm is encouraging.

I would be one of those people. You don't ride?

Riding bikes does not wreck your knees, it strengthens them. You'll do more damage to your body by not using it.
Be very cautious about buying an electric bike. Some of them are pure junk. Good luck.

I've checked out the StokeMonkey and it looks very good. It powers the crank not the wheels.
It looks as though it has to be used with an Xtracycle which is not a bad thing as it vastly increases the usefulness of a bike. The StokeMonkey starts at $1350. The Xtracycle is $399.
Install them on a KHS Urban-X, $329, for a total cost of $2078. That'll give you some idea of what a good electric bike should cost.

Is it possible to make an e-bike battery that recharges with human powered pedaling? That would be cool.

what's next - the trikke?

1) I've yet to see how many watts that front hub is. Hopefully someone reading this thread will know.

2) The 600 watt hub I had with a poor gel cell lead acid battery raised my average trip MPH 5-12. A motor means the bike becomes a faster mode of transport.

3) Photons to food to calories to expression of movement VS photons to battery to movement...guess what? As eMergy calcs go, the battery system comes out the same or better than food. Now, get that food shipped in 3000 miles, and the battery system wins.

Now, I'm planning on hopping on the non-electric bike for todays moving about. Tomarrow, when I've got a 15 mile one way trip, I'll hop on the electric.

Anyone know what the price range for this bike is? It looks like the best offering yet in electric bikes, on paper.

Go ahead, correct me if I'm wrong.

There is not enough power in your legs to power the bike AND recharge the batteries.
I looked for the power rating on the Schwinn motor but did not find it. I read many times that the average cyclist produces about one quarter horsepower which is approx. 200 watts. So if the Schwinn motor has at least that power rating, which it probably does , that would give you twice the power of the average human being. The problem with the Schwinn is that it powers the wheel. It doesn't use the power it has in the best way.
The Stokemonkey powers the crank and has a little over 400 watts of power. Check out the Stokemonkey site to get an explanation of why powering the crank is better than powering the wheels.
The Schwinn "looks" good but because it powers the wheels it could not be the best offering yet. That honor goes to the Stokemonkey.

The problem with the Schwinn is that it powers the wheel. It doesn't use the power it has in the best way.

Based on claims of a web page trying to sell you a stokemonkey.

Now, the lower revolutions of a wheel-mount translate to a need to have larger magents. More weight. But that doesn't translate to "power in the best way". And such an 'argument' VS hub motors is moot when you use OJ's oil-cooled geared hubs. 200 watts at that size looks like a geared hub in the Schwinn.

The Schwinn "looks" good but because it powers the wheels it could not be the best offering yet. That honor goes to the Stokemonkey.

Prove it. If anything, a hub motor is BETTER because you don't suffer friction losses of the suggested stokemonkey. But you've made the claim, so prove it beyond repeating a PR statement from the company that wants to sell you a stokemoney.

And a hub motor works are FAR more bikes than a stokemoney.

Wouldn't it be up to you to prove him wrong? Not him prove himself right? I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, but if you think he is wrong prove it.

BionX and a few other assist systems have regenerative braking - the electric motor helps brake the bike and in the process recharges the batteries a bit. You CAN put it in a regenerative mode where some of your pedal power is used to charge the batteries.

Regarding assist bikes - they have several niches. For instance, my bike commute use to be 13 miles each way and took me about an hour in each direction. If an assist could get my speed up to 20 mph, that would save me 20 minutes each way. In warm weather it might reduce the sweat factor a bit.

A lot of people might consider a bike for errands of a mile or two but not more. Assists open up the range for this group.

Assisted bikes fill a gap between regular bikes and scooters. They (hopefully) cost less than a good scooter and still provide you with exercise.

Anyone know what the price range for this bike is? It looks like the best offering yet in electric bikes, on paper.

No. But one can look at this:


Northern Tools Mongoose 450 Watt bike at $330.00

Drives the rear wheel via chain, it seems

It may be impractical to have the pedals recharge the battery while driving the bike (although perhaps it would be useful to have the pedals just recharge the battery and the drive ben full-electric?), but I bet there are still some other enhancements that could be made to increase battery life. For example: regenerative braking. As with cars, there's a lot of energy wasted in the braking process (which is why your brake shoes heat up). I'm sure there's some way this technology could be beneficially applied to an electric bike, and it would have exactly the same benefits it does for hybrid and electric cars. In fact, I'm very tempted to get one of these and try to install my own regenerative braking system.

A variably geared system such as Stokemonkey (or Cyclone, or a few others) will make the most of a small motor by allowing it to operate within its optimum RPM range over widely varying vehicle speeds. But people may have other criteria in identifying the best system, such as simplicity, low cost, ease of use, and so on, where hub motors may be more compelling than what variably geared systems offer.

Disclosure: I'm the Stokemonkey guy. It is not in my interest to sell Stokemonkeys to people for whom other systems are better suited. I recommend hub motors to people who just want help maintaining a certain speed in a narrow range of conditions. If you want to haul cargo in hills and still be able to go fast on the flat, however, variable gearing is priceless. The alternative is to start with a grossly overpowered (=heavy) single-speed motor and the batteries (=heavier) to make it go, at which point you no longer have a viable bicycle.

I would love a better electric bike, especially one that doesn't look that different from any other bike. About the only thing I'm dissapointed in is that it's still using a chain, why couldn't they design it around one of the more efficient shaft drives? Also curious what top speed is.. If I could get around 20mph I'd consider using it as a commuter bike and charge it at work.

I'm waiting for the electric shoes (so I can more perfectly do the electric slide), the electric gloves (for better grip) and the electric disposable shaver (wait. . .we have that). Hell, let's electrify EVERYTHING!!! Then the old and infirm who depend (from the comments in this thread) upon electricity to keep them in shape won't ever have to struggle at all! My lord! What did the old folks do for exercise before electricity? Think of the obesity rates "back in the day" - they must have been staggering!

I can see no reason why the Strokemonkey could not have regenerative braking. One of the nice things about regenerative braking is that helps slow the bike down and would significantly lessen the use of the brakes. A 50 pound electric bike needs good braking. If you gave me the choice between BionX with regenerative braking or the Strokemonkey without, I'd choose the Strokemonkey. I believe it would have superior range, regardless. It uses it's energy more efficiently and it's performance would be vastly superior.

Hi Todd, great to hear from you. Love your website. I'm sure you have given careful consideration to a version that can be used without the Xtracycle. My idea is to work with a frame builder (Surly?) and build a frame (Karate Monkey?) with the motor mounts welded on in the main triangle. For my own needs an Xtracycle equipped bike would be difficult to fit in the elevator where I live. I also relish the possibilities of a great handling Strokemonkey equipped bike. Thanks for your wonderful effort. The Strokemonkey is the only electric bike that I have seen that I would lay my money down on.

Shaft drives are not more efficient that chains. Chains don't slip and neither do shaft drives but shafts are way heavier so they can't be as efficient. Also, shaft drive would have to depend on some sort of internal hub gearing which is not as efficient as the good old derailleur. I saw a bike that uses a kevlar belt similar to the ones on cars that drive the camshafts, it was neat but it would preclude the use of a front derailleur and, again, it would have to use an internally geared hub. There's a new development of a really efficient constantly variable transmission from Fallbrook Technologies. This could be used with a kevlar belt and it wouldn't need a front derailluer. It's something with some great potential.

Tod Brilliant, you're a funny guy!

I have been using an electric bike now for 2 years..

My first bike cost me 350 $.. i'm on my 4th bike right now and i have just about 3000 $ invested in it, and it's just about as good as it gets ( Until battery technology catches up ! currently using NIMH )

I do not own a car, don't have a drivers permit and am 28 years old.. It's not because i canot afford a car.. it's simply that i don't need one .

I have a range of about 20 to 40 kms depending on how i use it.. and i love the thing !

I have rheumatoid arthritis and some days i simply canot pedal without pain.. so i don't pedal.. i use the motor 100 % to get to work and back.. if i'm in the mood for exercise.. i pedal without the motor. no one says you can't pedal.. it just gives you the option.

In 30 celcius summer heat.. i arrive at work fresh and clean.. ie: not sweaty..

Personally.. i think e-bikes are great !

Todd,

Very entertaining post. But please read this and get back to us:

http://www.ebikes.ca/sustainability.shtml

Your humour is a bit on the sophisticated side...

Okay, entries like those of Mr. Daigle do sway me a bit. If one is truly debilitated to the point that an E-bike is the only way to get around (aside from a car) then I can see the need. However, if E-bikes are marketed solely to those with extreme physical difficulties, there will not be a large enough market to sustain production. So, it comes down to a series of greater good questions - not so simple to answer any of them.

If an assist could get my speed up to 20 mph, that would save me 20 minutes each way. In warm weather it might reduce the sweat factor a bit.

As speed increases, so does wind resistance. So a 200 watt rig will be a great gain. The 400 watt unit give you a bit more of a boost, but not as great a delta as the 200 watter. Dig about with the Crystalyte speed charts to see watts vs speed.

The best solution would be some type of Velo Mobile

Assisted bikes fill a gap between regular bikes and scooters.

Yes, so ignore the "tod Brilliant" crowd. Because one day he'll have an electric bike.

Anonymous -

Interesting assumption, that I'll one day be riding an electric bike? A bit of a bizarre way to try to affirm your nebulous points.

Use Your Brain -

I don't know if you meant me (Tod) or Todd (Todd), but either way, I read the paper. Sorry to say that it is entirely flawed and admits as much on Page 3 where it confesses to ignoring all secondary effects, including exercise benefits and toxic waste issues. Ignoring these renders the entire calculation moot. To simplify things and suggest that pedaling causes increased human hunger and therefore food consumption - making electric bikes preferable is more than a little goofy, you must admit.

I will however, temper my earlier statements against the e-bike as I do see a limited use for them among the truly disabled. Before we invest in e-bikes, I think we should improve the traditional bicycle, as it is a long way from perfect (which makes the e-bikes modeled after flawed traditional bikes a bit silly). The Velo Mobile-style traditional bike is an improvement ergonomically but visibility issues remain without poles/flags.

200w is better than nothing.. but not much.

400w is better.. 1000w will get you up some nasty hills.. more is kinda like having a car that can do 100 mph when legal speed limits don't go that high.. up to the user's discretion..

I would like to see figures on how many electric bikes are sold per year in china/japan/etc..

vs Canada / USA.. i'm sure it's a staggering difference..

Even so.. as the price of gas goes up.. so will the popularity of e-bikes.

Time will tell.

A 200 watt electrical motor added to your 200 watt body would be more than enough to pedal 20mph. It's not that hard without a motor if you've got a light bike, can assume an aerodynamic position, and your big fits you well so that you can pedal effciently.

Attacking electric bikes... solely the domain of [some] treehuggers...

And you guys wonder where the stereotypes comes from.

Anonymous -

Interesting assumption, that I'll one day be riding an electric bike? A bit of a bizarre way to try to affirm your nebulous points.

Use Your Brain -

I don't know if you meant me (Tod) or Todd (Todd), but either way, I read the paper. Sorry to say that it is entirely flawed and admits as much on Page 3 where it confesses to ignoring all secondary effects, including exercise benefits and toxic waste issues. Ignoring these renders the entire calculation moot. To simplify things and suggest that pedaling causes increased human hunger and therefore food consumption - making electric bikes preferable is more than a little goofy, you must admit.

I will however, temper my earlier statements against the e-bike as I do see a limited use for them among the truly disabled. Before we invest in e-bikes, I think we should improve the traditional bicycle, as it is a long way from perfect (which makes the e-bikes modeled after flawed traditional bikes a bit silly). The Velo Mobile-style traditional bike is an improvement ergonomically but visibility issues remain without poles/flags.

Yes...one should. The more bicycles, be they electric assist or not means better road conditions for ALL cyclists. More bicycle parts, more accessories, and there should be less cost.

Well, I'd like to apologize for being overly flip back there in the 2nd comment -- I was a bit uncivil. To quote another commenter, this bike probably isn't ideal for everyone, but it probably is ideal for *someone*, which is a classic bit of long-tail economic thinking.
Biking may strengthen your knees if they are already healthy, but if you have damaged cruciate ligaments or other joint problems (cartilage etc.) it doesn't help.

I see an increasing number of electric-assist bikes at local shops, and this means there is a market, which means R&D investment. The rule of thumb is that the least polluting technology usually ends up being cheaper in the long run, which is a good inducement to pursue a "cradle to cradle" manufacturing policy, esp. as relates to the batteries; if we can get high enough energy density in some sort of recyclable cell, possibly derived from automotive research, that'd be great.

If we want to get more young people on them, we need a zeitgeisty marriage of style and aesthetics - the retro cruiser look doesn't exactly work there...I'd love to see Biomega do a take on this, an MN-style body with an enclosed shaft drive.

Anonymous -

God forbid that any dissension exists among the ranks! Hey, I just don't dig the electric bikes and I don't find them consistent with a sustainable movement. That's just me. . .I'm not trying to win any popularity contests, nor dissuade anyone else from buying yet another techno-toy. Don't take it personally. . . but I have to ask: What stereotypes? If you think there's any stereotype that fits the widely divergent group of people that enjoy this site, you're off the mark. The sustainability movement won't survive if it doesn't have an incredibly broad constituency. I shudder to think what would happen if it remained in the hands of a small, vocal intellectual elite!

Todd, you would do well to remember that perfect is the enemy of good.

In order for change to occur, we have to listen and understand what 'people' want, and the barriers that are in their way.

There are four reasons why people tell themselves they don't bicycle to work. Effort. Traffic Danger. Sweat. Weather. Electric bicycles deal with two of these, and could deal with three.

Can't do much about the weather. Mind you, if we listen to you, Todd, all the commuters will stay in their cars, and in 20 years time we'll have lovely cycle weather all year round.

I recently test drove an electric bicycle (I have an electric scooter) and they feel like a brilliant solution to future urban travel.

The primary market for electric bicycles is not the disabled, and not the existing cyclists, its people who would otherwise drive.

My beef is that Schwinn keep buying up small Scandinavian bicycle firms with brilliant technology which means I can't get one of these bad boys in London. Why Schwinn? Why?

ToD - I was working out of town for two months this summer. It was very hilly and the weather was always warm. 9 mile commute each way. I had two choices: 1.rent a car for 2 months
2.buy a bike for less than a rental car would cost, but have to deal with 10-15% inclines and arrive drenched with sweat at work.
3.buy an electric bike for the same price as a regular bike, not worry about hills and arrive at work reasonably dry and clean.

This was the first time I ever considered an ebike and I'm totally converted. I now have two bikes at home, one electric and one regular. I use the ebike to go grocery shopping and deal with the occasional long, hilly trip. My regular bike takes care of all the other small trips. Now the interesting bit is that I actually bother hauling a 26lbs battery into my apartment. The whole bike weighs 75lbs with the battery and it is still a delight to ride, especially up hills. Now that schwinn is coming out with what looks like a clean looking and well engineered bike that weighs almost half as much as mine, I don't see out this market can fizzle out.

The problem with the way people view bikes in North America lies with the fact that they are seen by most as a recreational or exercise vehicule. People who cycle to work are considered people who 'want to exercise' and 'stay in shape' by most accounts. In Asia or even in Europe, they have a much more utilitarian and practical conception of bicycles. Sometimes it's economic, sometimes it's because of congestion. Often it's both. It's there that ebikes have had tremendous success and continue to do so. Some North American commuters see the ebike as an opportunity to use a bikepath to get to work while avoiding traffic. In many cases riding an ebike will get them there faster than using a regular bike or their car. I think that's the right idea. It gets people to consider getting out of their car. Obviously, someone who rides an ebike to work gets more exercise than someone who sits in their car. If we start associating ebikes with elderly and physically challenged people, we're not helping promote this alternative. Regardless, it is clear to me that interest in this new category of bikes is alive and well; with fit, unfit, old and young.

Consider this for traffic choked cities with good commuter trains:

http://www.nano-motor.co.uk/brompton/index.htm

As for the paper I linked to earlier, can you confirm that a regular north american consumes food (i.e.: fuel for cycling) that is produced at a rate of 1:28 efficiency? If that is indeed the case, I don't see how leaving out secondary factors (out of both human and electric sides of the equation) would alter the conclusion.

Your insight is appreciated.

Brain -

If you think there's any stereotype that fits the widely divergent group of people that enjoy this site, you're off the mark.

That's precisely the point of stereotypes - they tend to be negative portrayals/generalizations of a given group that are based on the behavior, attitudes, or whatever of a certain subsegment of a given group of people.

You seem to not be aware of how ridiculous it is to get critical about electric bicycles being "unsustainable". To a normal person, that's craziness. We live in a world with hundreds of millions of automobiles, unbelievable amount of energy use and waste, and you're sitting there being critical of a bicycle with a little battery pack on it?

Like I said, that reinforces a stereotype about environmentalists having unrealistic standards and being critical of things which the vast majority of people would look at as very sustainable.

Do you have a cell phone? Does it have a battery? How about a laptop? Or a desktop? Those all have batteries. I assume you have a computer monitor, right? Lots of e-waste there.

Do you have a car? Do you fly in planes?

Seriously - and then you find cause to complain about bikes with little battery packs?

Just one person's experience: After many years and thousands of miles on an old Raleigh road bike, I built an electric bike and can now commute 18 mi. each way to work. Takes an hour each way, including stops. I suppose I could do it without electric assist, but I just don't want to spend 3½ hours on a bike every day (I'm a fairly slow-riding middle-aged doofus). I'm totally sold on electric bikes! Side benefit: when I ride my old Raleigh now, it feels like a featherweight carbon-fiber wonderbike...

Anonymous -

Full disclosure:

I have a mobile phone. And a headest. And I drive a car. And I LOVE to fly in jet airplanes - but only first class. No laptop, but I do have a desktop. And a monitor. And a washing machine! And a dryer! And light bulbs in almost every room. And a refrigerator/freezer unit. And a motorcycle. And, let's see. . .a cordless electric phone. Over 50 Polaroid cameras (all of which consumer batteries), four lamps, an alarm clock/radio . . and that is everything I own that uses batteries or is plugged in (oh wait, my stove).

That said, I still think electric bikes are really silly to discuss at this site. Why does it bother you so much? I simply disagree with you. You think that the latest e-gadget is the cat's meow, and I think that it will contribute to a more sustainable world about as much as an electric razor (they do, after all, reduce the amount of disposables used, no?). Difference of opinion, and it would seem I touched a nerve. I'd say that, if we're going to invoke stereotypes of "Treehuggers" the ones I think of most often are "kneejerk" (especially when it comes to toeing the Dem party line) and "touchy" (especially when it comes to questioning the Dem party line).

I just purchased a Mongoose-branded, Currie electric bike for $350 from Target. It weighs 90 lbs (!), comes with a 450 Watt motor, and lead-acid batteries (basically, a first or second generation e-bike). This week, I've ridden the bike over 60 miles, and I have not driven my car. I am perfectly healthy, but I do not use my $500, 20 lb. bike for my 9-mile, hilly commute because I must wear my work clothes. I cannot afford a disheveled appearance. So, basically, this fairly simple device is a great transportation alternative for many people.

Hey, I just don't dig the electric bikes and I don't find them consistent with a sustainable movement.


People will have the need for transport. So in your view, an electric bike is not worth support, so people should just keep using their cars VS hopping on an Electric Bike because electric bikes are not part of the "sustainable movement"?


I'm not trying to win any popularity contests,


No danger there.


nor dissuade anyone else from buying yet another techno-toy.


And that is why you are calling a valid transport method "a toy". The use of the words "a toy" show that you ARE trying to dissuade.

Side benefit: when I ride my old Raleigh now, it feels like a featherweight carbon-fiber wonderbike...
Yea....isn't that great? And an electric bike makes a 1:30 trip about 45 mins VS the car version of 20 mins.

Why does it bother you so much?

I'm not the one who's bothered by electric-assist bicycles.

You think that the latest e-gadget is the cat's meow

I do?

and I think that it will contribute to a more sustainable world about as much as an electric razor

So? What you said is "I don't find them consistent with a sustainable movement". That means you think they are UNsustainable. Which I say is very thin hair-splitting, given the state of things as they are today. If all cars were to disappear and be replaced by electric assist bikes (not saying they would or should), that would make an enormous difference in the quality of life on Earth.

Difference of opinion, and it would seem I touched a nerve.

Nope, no nerve touched, either. Just perplexed at your attitude, which doesn't seem very clear.

if we're going to invoke stereotypes of "Treehuggers" the ones I think of most often are "kneejerk" (especially when it comes to toeing the Dem party line) and "touchy" (especially when it comes to questioning the Dem party line).

I honestly don't know where that comment is coming from either.

In my local paper yesterday (the Ottawa Citizen), they had an article of a local guy who has made a small electric motor that fits in the front tire of a bicycle. It looks pretty good (but is pricey). Check out this url for details: http://www.acclivity.ca

http://www.acclivity.ca

I checked it out. It's a hub motor. Not ideal.

Prices for Schwinn Electric Bikes MSRP.....

http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bike_category.php?id=109

I am 72 and have always enjoyed bicycle riding until I had to get off and walk the hills. Now with my Giant LaFree I can go anywhere up to ten miles away and be sure of getting there on time and fresh. I fastened a sturdy nylon carry all on the back carrier for my tools, camera, etc. I paid $600 and found it on Ebay.

I wish to buy some kind of electric bike to be used in a lerge flat Florida Trailer Park. I wish to be able to pedal it most of the time, but when assist is needed, I want it available. I like the looks of the Schwin proposed bike, but can't help but wonder if it is still a pipe dream.

The Schwinn is unproven and I believe I read somewhere that it cost $1699.
How about getting a Electra Amsterdam, $550, and electrifying it with proven components?
Here's a link to EVsolutions which sell conversion kits.
http://www.evsolutions.net/kits.html
They seem to be sincere.

WOW!

These are far and away the sleekest looking electric bikes I've ever seen. At 45# they are some of the lightest too.

I'm a long time bike commuter, I've been interested in electric... probably more for my mother who is also a long time bike commuter and almost 20 years older than me, or for my kids who will be toddling off to college soon and they're football players who don't really have the stamina for campus commuting on a regular bike (during RAGBRAI they sleep 14-16hrs a day while Mom and I hit the beer tent)

Electric bikes seem like just the little boost that a man my age might otherwise turn to drugs for.

Schwinn does offer one model with a shaft. Shafts are not too popular as most people believe that they don't transfer energy quite as efficently as a chain. On a diamond frame or 'wedgie' bike the shaft and all its kit probably outweighs a chain - they might be a better match for the long drive trains of the recumbent bike or trike.

But a shaft would help keep the grease off of your pants cuff. of course, on my 'bent it usually marks me higher on on the leg than the cuff, so eshewing the chain bites would be even more desirable on that style of bike.

And, as GRAND as bikes do work, most get more miles on the back of a car than on the road. There is a large segment of the biking populace that only use their bikes for recreation, go figure. These people are usually pretty easy to spot when you're out riding, look for brightly colored spandex clothing - if they speak to you at all it will be to chastise you for not having a helmet. follow this type very long and they're sure to lead you to a bike shop parking lot where they have parked a car with a bike rack on it.

I feel that any contribution is better than nothing, and every little bit helps move things along the path. I'm a big fan of commuting by bicycle and have used my electric assisted bike since may, and had no problems on a recent 29 degree morning. I'm thinking I might be using it (when realistic) through the winter. I just don't see how the 2 lithium batteries I use, and the hour charging each day is "bad" - It's easily saved over $700, and over 300 gallons of gasoline I would otherwise have burned - my truck is parked most days. 4 miles each way and it's very easy. Unfortunately I have not seen any other regular bike commuters during this time. I pedal the flats and use the electric on the hills. I have lost cartilage in one of my knees and can't do significant hills on my own without a week of swelling and pain - bottom line is without the electric assist I'd be in my car.
z.

I have a problem that limits my mobility so a power assisted bike seems like a great way to exercise. Is there a good site dedicated to electric bikes with reviews and comparisons? I see this bike uses a 24 volt power supply where most seem to use 36 volt. I am looking to purchase by Spring 2007.

Has anyone purchased one of the new Schwinn Electric bikes. I am thinking of getting one

How narrow minded can one be with thier comments on electric bikes. With that attitude we would have gotten nowhere on technology and inventions. Being an electric bike owner for 7+ years I must say that I see people who would like to ride bikes again(stroke patients, heart attack patients, etc) embrace the technology that allows them to ride again. People have given up their autos for short commutes to work on electric bikes, thus not polluting the aire with their fossil burning vehicles.
I must say that "Tod Brilliant" should be renamed to "Tom Narrowminded".
Tom when you are old and cannot ride anymore I would like to hear your comments once again.

Let's talk about from the economic perspective for having an electric bike vs. if you have to drive the miles.

Assuming your car average out 26 miles per gallon.

Assume the round trip to work is 26 miles. Here in California, just the gas price is 2.5 USD / gallon (and keep increasing)

If you ride your bike to work, and recharge only at your office, (haha, hope your boss is okay with that), then each day you save 2.5 USD.

Now assume your battery can take 7000 miles before it's dead. and the battery costs you 300 USD.

so for 7000 miles, the simple costs between ebikes and cars will be

(assuming office pays for the electricity :P)
cost of driving due to gas = 7000/26 = 673 USD
cost of ebiking due to battery = 300 USD

so you will have 373 USD difference!

Of course, the depreciation of the car is much higher than the ebike after 7000 miles.

If we assume the cost per mile to drive is 40 cents then
cost of driving = 7000 *0.4 = 2800 USD
cost of ebiking... I don't know how you can spend 2800 USD on ebiking for just those 7000 miles.

so how many days in the 7000 miles? well, each day you bike 26 miles, so that's 269 days.

On wait, you guys will mention how much time lost comparing to driving.

well, let see 7000/40 = 175 hrs, vs. 7000/14 = 500 hrs.

So you will spend +325 hours more due to transportation in the 269 days, i.e. 1.21 hrs per day

So I think biking is good, in terms of saving $$, but not really saving time for long distance travelling (+10 miles per day)

whereas, if you have something like smaller than 10 miles, ebking not only save $$ but maybe close to the time required to drive the car.

For my case, my area is hilly, i need an ebike to overcome the hills... I can still drive a car, but if I want to save $$, I have to go biking.

Even though it looks like I live frugally, but I feel my money is well spent.

Please let me know what you guys think :P

Batavus in the Netherlands has been selling a bike like this (with an "invisible motor" or "onzichtbare motor") for at least a couple of years:

http://www.onzichtbaremotor.nl/

The British correspondent who complained of inability to buy the Schwinn product in Europe might want to check with a local Batavus dealer.

The Dutch market for these bikes includes parents who transport two or three kids to school by bike, on their way to work, but have a steep bridge or two to cross along the way, people who regularly commute against 30 mph headwinds (the wind can really build up speed in windmill country), and the many people who can't possibly drive a car but can no longer manage to pedal where they need to go.

Regarding e-bikes, could anyone tell me where we could find chainless units (with shaft drive) with 350 to 450 watt intelligent electric-assist motor + long life lithium batteries to negotiate long hilly but smooth bike trails.

You may answer directly to:

harveydevost@videotron.ca

I have 6 e-bikes would have settled for 1 till I let my wife ride it, then i couldn't keep up. I've been buying her bikes for years that she would never ride now she wants to go all the time. Before I could get my bike converted I bought a Moongoose motocross for the motor the Mgr made me a deal on the floor sample, and I ended up with 2 bikes. While I was tearing them down I notticed how well they were built and decided to convert them to adult bikes. Naturally the wife took one and I couldnt keep up I redesigned the bike added another battery built a recharge system to put back volts when coasting now I have to wait for her to catch up. Since then I redesigned two more bikes working a lot with the battery paks chargers and placement Naturally the wife took one. This Spring I have plans to build an electric bike car a single seater.

So I googled this bike and came to this blog. Here is my story:

Today I was out playing with the kids when the kid next door brought out an electric scooter. At first I thought, great another thing to help kids be fat these days but I tried it out and loved it. I still had to push myself but it helped going uphill and gave u that downhill thrill all the time.

There is so many hills where we live that I think this is an amazing idea, a lot of people don't have the wind in them to take on these hills, if I had a little help I would get on my bike more often!

Hi all - I have read the above posts with interest.
To add my 2 cents worth - I had not ridden a bicycle in 20 years.
As an avid motorcyclist I have not driven a car more than twice a year.
After a serious bike crash 5 years ago - damaging all the left points of contact, ankle, knee, hip, arm, hand and shoulder – (even though wearing great body armour & leather suit – 250kg of bike bouncing on a human at any speed = hurt) I regularly live with pain. Imagine my situation when the local police decided to revoke my bike licence. With a 60km commute for 12 weeks – I chose a PAB - petrol powered. I surprised myself - with an increase to fitness & damaged body parts hurting less with continued exercise. After my licence was re-enabled & riding my bike again – I found myself missing the time to think, exercise & the mental unwind on my daily ride home. Enter the E-Bike – a better option than a PAB fuel powered bike which allows me to commute for half the time & assists if injuries are a little difficult to handle on any given day. Cold weather is still a real bear (: On a occasion I ride my road bike (pedal only) takes twice the time but I look forward to these special rides (: I suppose the bottom-line for me is not to discriminate – any number of wheels used with power assist or not = ALL is positive

This post makes me want to scream at my computer! I'm very supportive of the environment, but the amount of unscientific information being thrown around bothers me. These expensive electric bikes may look really shiny and excellent but there are some things that are lacking in the prices being asked for by Schwinn and Stokemonkey. The Schwinn only goes up to 20 MPH and the Stokemonkey uses some off the shelf barnyard technology but is charging an ungodly $1350 for their base model! The motor on their wannabe tandem-bike drive train turns the pedals even if the rider removes their feet! There is no roller clutch integrated in the crank.

I built my own electric bike through internet distributors and some patience, for under $400. It was modeled off of Eric Peltzer's electric bicycle (http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/) and can climb hills, ridiculously steep hills and will go 30MPH on flat surfaces.

I used two 400 watt Currie Kollmorgen brushless motors ($50 each) connected by belt drive to a jackshaft. Each motor has a built in speed control which first inverts the 24v DC source into AC power and adjusts the frequency of the AC which makes for a smaller and more efficient speed controller.

My batteries are exactly the same as the Stokemonkey bike. I inserted 40 D-Cell NiMH batteries in a combination of PVC pipes and a small aluminum box, and configured them for 24v and 12v output. Voltage is selected by a 6 pole switch, allowing for charging from either 12 or 24 volts. I paid $180, shipping included for 40 10Ah D-Cell NiMH batteries on ebay while Stokemonkey is charging $350 for 30 9Ah D-Cell NiMH batteries and a steel tube with a thermocouple inside.

Selecting an electric bike involves some serious research and rational thinking, if you want a definitive solution. From what I see, these very expensive hacks. Please visit Eric's website (http://www.peltzer.net/ebike/) to learn about mechanics of an electric bike and how you can save money and frustration.

800 watts on a bike may seem like a lot of power, but It is necessary, especially in a car infested city like Cincinnati. Over here, drivers are hostile to bike riders, so one must ride at least 30MPH unless they want to be run over by some 8000lb SUV.

I will say its a good idea, I bought one and use it all spring summer and fall for getting around. The lithium battery packs are recyclable i got 2 and i charge mine with a 400watt solar panel. So in the long run, mine will be greener. More than if i continued driving everywhere. Every little bit helps.

I would go withe the ElecTrec Bike, 600 W full suspension bike.
Far more power than the Schwinn's or Izips

www.electrecbike.com

My electric bike has gotten me out of my car! I live in a particularly hilly section of North East Los Angeles (and I'm particularly lazy), and my 750 Watt Wavecrest bike helps me right up the hills and on my way. The regenerative braking is also really bitchen! I'm glad it's warming up outside so I can do more riding and less driving!

My question.......... Are you saying there is a better electric assisted bike than giant's lafree lite ?

i've owned the orginal sport when it first came out and btw its still working... with the help of a new battery...... and i also picked up a lite back in 2003 and now need another in a different location.....

and altho i do understand its discontinued... i am buying another...one....

i heard that china has a bike competive to the lite.... but have heard this schwin..... has too many problems....

anyone know ?

Some interesting posts on here, but a lot of them seem to be off target jibes from cranky neuro bloggers. To comment on the issue, I just bought a cheapo Electric Mongoose bike for $302, including tax and I love it. It is heavy as can be, but the torque of the motor overcomes that easily. The components are junk, but you can always upgrade, just like on a non powered bike. The speed is low, but adequate, and the range is fine for me since I live in a flat city and use it as an assisted pedalying ride, not as an electric motorcycle. I have heard horror stories about Currie's lack of customer service, so I plan on fixing whatever problems that come up myself. For now though I am a happy camper. It is unbelieavable that you can purchase a powered bike for 300 bucks! I put a rack on the back and a $10 speedometer/odometer/computer on it and it's just about perfect. All I can say is try it before you make any decisions. I seldom use my regular bike now, and there are plenty of other ways to get exercise. I can haul tons of groceries or supplies much easier, and don't have to take cabs from the grocery. If the electrics break and I don't want to spend the money to fix them, I can pull the motor and batteries off and have a regular bike. How can you lose? In the end, it's about enjoying your biking, increasing your travel distance, and having some fun and hardly polluting the planet all at the same time. Trust me, these things are the future, and it is a good future compared to driving a car or even taking the bus.

Look.

We live in a free-slave world run by a few select multi-billionaires way up top the capitalist pyramid. One is born into a highly controlled, perpetual enslavement machine involving the necessary logistics of commuting to a workplace, fattening banks by paying off a mortgage/rent and buying trucked food from a grocery store. The system feeds itself, it is not sustainable and it certainly is not nourishing to the soul of man nor any other living being on the planet. Period.

The one and only way to be absolutely 100% sustainable is to be born into a world where land is parceled off to people freely to build their own homes and grow their own food.
Fat chance here on planet greed.

Without free land absolutely nothing will ever be ‘sustainable’ .

Do keep in mind that the metabolic efficiency of the human body is a shabby 25% where as an electric motor and battery is close to 80% efficient and since food is trucked from far, far away to your oh-so convenient local grocery superstore it is actually…hold on tight… far more green to ride electric than a regular bicycle. For the dime it costs a day to charge a bicycle battery what’s all the fuss about?

Think about it.

S.

The first guy's comment has a flaw in the logic:

"Electric bikes are not going to get people out of cars, folks."

Whoa. Hang on there slick. One thing that really HURTS the eco movement is this kind of irrational OPINION thrown out as though it were irrefutable fact.

I know because I'm currently pondering an electric bike so that I can get rid of my car.

Maybe I'm unusual, but I think not. I don't want to get sweaty on the way to work. Period. End of discussion. Until we re-engineer the weather, I'm not going to ride a bike on hot, humid days. I'll coast on one though. Just because you work in a place where foul odor is rationalized doesn't mean we all have that luxury.

Electric bikes are a perfect example of the golden mean. So stop acting like you're wiser than Aristotle and give us rational, thoughtful reasons for why electric bikes are horrible creations.

Read an article a few years ago about a power assisted bike used in the mountains by park rangers or the military. You recharged it by pedaling. At the time could not afford it .

Now, years later, still Interested in power assisted bikes, looking for one that you recharge yourself by pedaling; an alternate, not just plug in, assisted power charge would be good too.

Would like one with gear ratio that reduces the need for power assistance.

Sorry, my ten speed and I have parted each others company a long time ago. I had to revert back to motorized transportation. Never got above the first 3 gears anyway. Recycled it by giving it to someone who could use it.

The current climate for gas products has reawakened my interest in bikes...alas...power assistance of some sort will be needed.

Sounds like the persons on this site are knowledgeable. Has anyone used this type of power assisted bicycle. Any suggestions?

In this country bikes may not get people out of their cars but look at other countries: http://www.miamiherald.com/154/story/119218.html
http://www.pcei.org/vbp/

Me search for an electric bike does not put me in the cat catagory of wanting to get out of my car or excise for better healty. I have COPD and could not walk up most hills in my area, like the one my street has to get me into down. I would however just like to go biking with my 10 and 12 year old kids, I would not last but 5 minutes on a pedal bike. But I still want to take the kids out biking and no, I do not yet own a electric scooter or chair. This seems like the way to go for me and several others I now in town. Without something like an electric bike, we do go at all.

Contact your elected officials and demand equal access to safe passage through our cities. I live in Mpls., Minnesota with biking and walking paths. Campaign for electric bike use on these trails. Roads are definitely not safe for bikes and pedestrians. Companies do not provide showers for sweaty bke commuters. Potential riders are handicapped for various problems. Trails can be graded in both directions to assist riders. Streets should be dedicated to pedestrian and bike use only. Electric bikes are one real solution for green.

Love the site and the comments.

Hello,
I'm an avid rider, and a former bike courier. I've been riding for years to work or school or for fun (competitively and non-competitively). A year ago I moved to a hillier city and found that after commuting all week and working each day I was exhausted (a 20km ride per day). I wanted to bike downtown, go for some long-distance rides and even errands but didn't have the energy.

After some research and debating between a used car, motorcycle or electric bike (or bike sometimes and take the bus), I decided to get a pedal-assist electric bike that regenerates, is reliable and reasonably light. There were a few that I was considering: (Wilderness Energy www.wildernessenergy.com
Crystalyte www.crystalyte.com and www.evsolutions.net
BionX www.bionx.ca). I chose the following because it was easier to get (in stock), and I liked it:

A few months ago I bought the BionX PL250 (li-ion) hub motor. Here are the details:
- It put 15 lbs more on my bike,
- it regenerates while going downhills (not stupendously, but it does regenerate),
- It fully recharges in 3-4 hours
- It lasts for 40-50km on hilly terrain (and about 70 - 80km on flats).
- The weakest point is the freewheel (threaded - but you can buy another cheap one if it fails, or get a better one).
- I get exercise while getting electric assist.
- It cost $1400 CDN after taxes and shipping.
- I maintain a speed of 25kph on hills, and about 32kph on flats.
- I opted for a throttle, and it works well (you still have to pedal, but it boosts the power for starting up after braking).
- The bike feels like a bike (you can still use the gears -- though you may need only the top four or so!).

It works well for me. The biggest factor was getting exercise while commuting, but I've also hauled loads with it (I have a bike trailer, and fill it up with loads of groceries...about $150 CDN worth every two weeks).

Other riders give me some chaff about it (until they ride it), but whatever, I'm happy!

Cheers

I just bought my first ebike yesterday... a Giant Suede. LOVE IT!!! Jesus Christ everyone should have one of these babies. I rode it to work for the first time this morning and plan on commuting to and from work every day on it. It's not the fastest or lightest ebike available, but it works for me.

I'm not super fit (or even fit, to be honest), and are by no means a green activist (tho knowing I'm not contributing to global warming is cool). I just want to get to work without too much pain, have fun doing it and get my exercise without feeling like its a total chore. My new ebike does this for me in spades. It's really incredible and with gas prices going up, really a Godsend.

One word people... MARKETING! Get on the ball! Why are these things not selling like hotcakes? Especially here in San Francisco. Come on now! Parking is either atrocious or expensive. Gas prices are ridiculous. I'm one of the laziest people I know and I just committed to bicycling to work and back every day.

People like me don't bicycle to work. We don't think we can ride a bike like those super freak racers. We'd embarrass ourselves by even trying. Or we're afraid of being clipped by cars. Or we're just plain ass lazy. We like convenience. We like candy colored ipods and nerdy gadgets. We have a fantasy of biking, but it doesn't sweat and racing shorts, but it includes a beautiful beach and a stylish looking bike that's easy to ride. Market to us and we will respond.

OK--here's what brought me to e-bike curiosity:
I live in the country, about 18 miles from the nearst grocery store/bank/gas station, etc, and it's as hilly here as Illinois gets...I love cycling, and loved my location, until I lost my driver's license! Oh, and I live alone, with no close-by friends or neighbors to cart my ass around. So, adding an electric motor to my Diamondback mountain bike seemed like a great chance for me to legally commute to town for groceries and such (I'm retired but often cycle 20-miles or more, but not with needed cargo!).
I also have several friends who have their licenses suspended (DO NOT DRIVE AFTER EVEN 3 BEERS IN JERSEY COUNTY, IL--cops are on a ridculous rampage here!), and they, too, are interested in some legal way to commute long distances....SO: is an add-on hub motor, or stokemonkey-type motor, just as good as the $2000 I'd have to spend for a new elec-assist bike? Thanks

i have to e bike and im 48 with bad leg so e bike keep me riding or i just would not go out on a bicycles anymore super idea

Schwinn is doing a great job with that new bike, but I like to keep my bike. Have you ever try a BionX. It can be retrifit to any bike, and it's so much fun. In will read how much I push and increse your power from 25% to 300%. Very well know in Canada and less in USA. It can even recharge the battery by going downhill.

I love the ride, I try the schwinn, the Giaint, the swissbee, the ecolocycle, the currie, the cristalyte, the Wavecrest the Heinzman, but no one is like the BionX. Try it ....

I still haven't seen anything that will compare with my EV Warriors. They are quick, will do about 20 MPH and will go approx. 20 miles on a charge. They are the best looking bikes on the road or those that are even in the planning process. It is unfortunate that they were discontinued back in the late ninties. The are durable and the electronics are incrediable. The bike is heavey and well built with many great features such as turning singles in the mirrors, Dual halogen headlights, emergency blinkers, and a 6 speed derailer. They were pricey when new and that is what killed them. I bought 4 of them in a close out sale. 3 of them are hardly ridden and the fourth in on the road daily. After 5 years of use the only thing I have replaced is the batteries. I hope the new electrics will be as good.i

Great comments by all, spent the last hour reading the years' worth of comments.
I have supported e-bike/scooter business for the last 10 years by selectively purchasing what I deemed to be the best on the market then. After well over 4 thousand dollars, I can see the accelerating curve of thought and capital spent in r&d for these products; what's available today is a far cry from what one could purchase ten years ago! For that, Koodos all around...
My last purchase was a heavy, non-pedaling e-Go scooter that I purchased from an independent bicycle shop: Bob's Bicycle Shop in Poolesville, Md. It has enough guts to tow my two young sons in wheeled carrier through traffic and modest hills to their school 5 miles away from home, piloted by my 125 lb. wife wearing glee. It will scoot up even steep hills with authority, and achieve between 20 and 25 mph on flats. I think the range is about 10 to 15 miles, rather limited but understandable given it's well over 100 lbs. unladen weight. Since most of its heft come from its lead-acid battery and not so thoughtfully designed frame, 35 lb. weight reduction could be had rather easily through better design and component just off the bat. Expensive alloy components could probably shave another 10 to 15 lbs., realistically putting a very powerful electric vehicle that weighs less than 65 lbs. on the road. It will climb steepest of hills, and travel 25 to 30 mph on flats, covering close to 20 miles per charge. Only caveat would be that it will probably cost about 2000 dollars plus even if mass produced.
In the final analysis, the snap shot that I see through my prism of last ten years is that today is much brighter than the yesteryears. And the future will depend on the response of consumers to cradle and encourage the advancement of this sort of product. But it's woefully short from ideal if judged as it is today.
I, for one, will go out there and support yet another maker this year so that s/he can be the step stone to another entrepreneur / inventor who will finally deliver The Product in the future.
I wish all of you safe riding, and successful tinkering. Even Mr.Brilliant must admit that a bicycle one can pedal uphill easily is the Bomb.

I am "only" 33, but I have medical problems. I love to bike but I do need help. Electric assist bikes are the future for me. I would buy a tidal force if they were still available or if Schwinn comes out with a mountain bike look to it. AND at a reasonable price unlike some of the others that are out nowwhich ask 5-8k ( which for that amount could start thinking about upgrading my Prius to a plug-in)

I have an electric bike, its not nearly as nice as this shwinn but i still like it. Its expecially nice to ride when I go bar hopping and dont want a DUI ok, ok, would you rather get hit with a drunk on his bicycle or a drung in a 4000 lbs weapon. how can anyone dis the e-bikes anytime you can travel using cleaner american made electricity instead of dirty oil purchased from people that hate us is a good thing

I now will say the bottom line to being eco-friendly are you ready, here it comes... People cause polution and drain the natural resorces of the earth, the only solution is less people. The best way to do this is to procreate less. STOP HAVING SO MANY CHILDREN POLLUTERS!

I have an electric bike, its not nearly as nice as this shwinn but i still like it. Its expecially nice to ride when I go bar hopping and dont want a DUI ok, ok, would you rather get hit with a drunk on his bicycle or a drung in a 4000 lbs weapon. how can anyone dis the e-bikes anytime you can travel using cleaner american made electricity instead of dirty oil purchased from people that hate us is a good thing

I now will say the bottom line to being eco-friendly are you ready, here it comes... People cause polution and drain the natural resorces of the earth, the only solution is less people. The best way to do this is to procreate less. STOP HAVING SO MANY CHILDREN POLLUTERS!

Where, in Britain, can I try/buy one of these Schwinn electric bikes, please/
?

I recently bought a gas powered moped, 90 Miles per gallon but would still like to get some electric transportation and maybe some alternative way to charge up. The moped is fun but noisy and I think for what I need a twenty mile range is just great.The only way to go someday for people like me who don't need to go far. Electricity can be aquired from so many ways that it is mind boggling.
Wind, wave, geothermal. thermal, solar, dams, paddle wheel and muscle power. The batteries that are being developed are fantastic. I forgot coal fired and nucleur power plants , however there you go handing down more poison to the other guy so lets forget about those two if we can and if we can't then quit having so damn many kids and give this old planet some relief. The last guy that I talked to about electric energy looked at me like a deer on a highway in the dark of night. He said the only reason the oil companies are charging so much is to drive the price up and that he personally knows of oil wells being capped. Yeah and I personally know of a man who has a second cousin whos girlfriends best friend was married to a guy who knew somebody who invented a carburetor that would allow a car to go 100 miles on a gallon iof gas ,but the oil companies bought the patent. Stupidity just keeps on marching on

Speaking... like this.. makes you look smart....

Im a older teen who is seriously looking at the electric bike as a car replacement since i have no car anymore. I adore the idea of getting one of these e-bikes asap! I would consider upgrading a bike to electric if I wasnt afraid of breaking something important halfway though :P
Like many americans, i am on the heavy side and am wondering, any ideas which bikes are the most heavy duty? I see some of these bikes have weight limits and i know if i went anywhere i would be taking my backpack+laptop with me (my bag alone adds almost 30 pounds)

I dont believe the first commenter realizes that more and more people are going to be switching from there cars if viable. We all have to do our part.

Speaking... like this.. makes you look smart....

Im a older teen who is seriously looking at the electric bike as a car replacement since i have no car anymore. I adore the idea of getting one of these e-bikes asap! I would consider upgrading a bike to electric if I wasnt afraid of breaking something important halfway though :P
Like many americans, i am on the heavy side and am wondering, any ideas which bikes are the most heavy duty? I see some of these bikes have weight limits and i know if i went anywhere i would be taking my backpack+laptop with me (my bag alone adds almost 30 pounds)

I dont believe the first commenter realizes that more and more people are going to be switching from there cars if viable. We all have to do our part.

i am new to this sight i found it looking for a schwinn speedster electric bike,why are some people so bent on total green wouldnt it seem that people need to be slowly weened off of gas vehicles??? no one loves cars more than me,however i would park the cars for an open air ride on an electric assest bike ,greeneys chill out on the hitler attitude live and let live,dont believe the hype!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1.

the only reason it wouldn't work is because of negetive people like you.

I have a Schwinn Electric Bike. It is one of the older styles, but still works great.

Young kids won't appreciate the e-power, but older folks sure do.

And, yes, it does replace a car much of the time.

Bottom line - there's no way that a $3,000 electric bike will pull significantly more people away from cars than a $200 commuter bicycle...unless you just can't physically ride a regular bicycle.

I just test rode the Ezee Torq and the Schwinn Continental. Both have me convinced this is the solution to hills that would otherwise deter well-intentioned but injured or slightly out of shape middle age folks. Effort is required in both models, but not knee grinding out of the saddle type effort. Between the two, the Schwinn is amazing. It is not as powerful as the Torq, but it feels like a road bike ( and I road bike) and is 30% lighter than the Torq which feels tank-like....Amazingly, here in Seattle, I only found one from a dealer who stepped outside the box and order a floor model. There seems to be alot of FUD and mis-information in the market now about availability and electronics..having a hard time getting up to date info..even the Schwinn site has the wrong picture..the bike I rode was very different....oil companies keeping us down.

This is an area where improved support on the roads makes a huge difference for commuting in most areas. A trip to Denmark or Holland will show you what can be done. It isn't impossible.

The price is not terribly important now. Sure you can get a regular bike and fix it up for much less, sure you can just pedal, but most people won't. If paths improve and people see this as more practical, prices will drop from competition.

The Schwinn's are getting a poor reputation for reliability btw .. if you buy one, make sure it has solid dealer support.

I am looking at one of these bicycles as a way of commuting, but have two questions. First, will I get killed out there on one of these since I will be doing battle with hundreds of SUV's every morning and night (my commute is about 16 miles each way)?

Second, I would have to ride over a fairly long and high hill (from the San Fernando Valley to the Westside of Los Angeles). How do these bikes do on a long uphill grade, such as Sepulveda Boulevard, or on an even more steep canyon road such as Coldwater Canyon?

Feedback on the safety and hill issues would be much appreciated.

so when is one of you guys going to find a way for the bike to have a generator so it can last longer. after you charge it up from your house or what not. while riding or driving you should put a generator to charge up off of one of the tires. so altho the battery will run out it will take longer to run the battery to die. plus this will make the ride longer.

If you havent riden on any of these bikes you just cant imagine what its like riding on one ,
I let a group of friend try mine. they were all amazed and wished they had one.
Some wanted it just to be able to keep up with their kids on long rides. its peddles normally really easy. they all said they wish they could ride it to work.... AND im saying all this dispite the fact that the bike is to darn big for a "17" ladies bike even 5 ft. 10 men fell off of the bike. WE had to cut 2" off the seat so i could touch the ground while sitting. most men were not comforable on the bike. and couldnt ride it With 2inches cut off the seat is over 37 inches from the ground.

My Schwinn hybrid comuter bike has 80K miles on it. I also rode a custom built, Dura Ace equiped Torpado for a few years and two mountain bikes of very questionable quality. The fact is, at 52 the mistakes of my youth are catching up to me. I have to climb a Mississippi river valley twice a day to ride to work, one of which is known as the toughest obstacle in distance running. I've fought it for some time, but I am finding some of the fun is going out of my comute and I am too quick to find excuses to use the car. AFFORDABLE electric assist looks better and better to me every day. I prefer the Bion X system and rear drive (no weight on front wheel going up hill), but this looks like a great step in the right direction.

dahon tournado or scorpion fx will be my next bike...

i'm trying to ride 25 miles one-way to work, up and down hills (think of san fransisco).

the only downside for electric assit is that when the battery runs down, it's an ancor weight, and not assisting in any way.

getting a lighter, better made, well-fitted bike can make all the difference and then there would be no need for electric assist. the scorpion would be ideal for those with knee/back problems.

Most regular-frame E- bikes will fit on bus bike-racks. [No-one else mentioned this--!?!] I have been Green (=carless) for 10 years! I only drive now when I occassionally rent a car for holidays. My carbon footprint is .06% of average!

Good afternoon.

We are a company commercial , on city of Alagoinhas, Bahia, Brasil & I should like of knowing I eat could acquire or import the bicycles eletricas?

Antonieta.

I have a trek 4 speed cruiser (town & country). I can and do take this little bike all over, into town, on 25 mile treks for fun at 3 am on xmas eve when no cars are out... That's all cool and stuff, but i would really like an electric assisted bike so i can possibly never need a car. If i could ride to the train, then bike rack on bus, then take bike to train to NYC i could work in NYC. There is NO WAY i could do that with my little 4 speed un-assisted. In fact if i had a 21 speed full suspension electric assisted bike i'm pretty sure i could go to the beach from my house in southeastern PA on my own. For people who think these won't get people out of cars, you are wrong. Wasteful? How many bikes could you make from one car? I bike in traffic, and often out-accelerate cars off the line, especially when they are turning. If i had an electric bike i'd feel even safer in traffic knowing i could easily get going especially though tight spots. I await the day when i can afford this kind of bike, get off of welfare and get a local job!

- A

Electric bikes are great! I live in a hilly area, so using a bike for transportation is pure hell on a hot day. Who wants to arrive at work all sweaty? Anyhow, I bought a cruddy old mountain bike at a yard sale for $80 and added a "bike electrified" kit (purchased on Ebay for about $350.00 or thereabouts). Now when I get to one of the tough hills, I push the controller switch with my thumb and up the hill I go, painlessly. I still use my own power to propel the bike, I just use the motor as an assist. The amount of power assist is easily adjusted with the "throttle" switch. The motor is mounted within the front hub, so installation is as easy as replacing the front wheel. The lithium battery pack goes on the luggage rack behind me. The only downside is that the hub motor is pretty heavy, so when I do ride the bike without the assistance of the motor, the weight of the bike is quite noticeable.

Can anybody guess what happens when you use non-renewable finite resources (metal, batteries,plastics,etc.) for cars, e-bikes whatever to support an exponentially growing population and economy?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>horse and buggy!

I'm 58 years old and have not ridden a bike since high school. After months of research, I purchased an ebike and am sold on it. In 30 days, I've put 173 miles on my ebike and less than 20 on my car. Today I built a custom carrier out of scrap for trips to the post office and grocery store.
I will be selling my hi pro classic American convertable for an old Honda or Toyota 30 mph beater for days when it's raining hard or trips out of town.
I've been converted.
Chuck

It seems that these electric bicycles should make a commute go faster.

I'm a fat man. A recluse, fat man who doesn't like scrutiny about my appearance or how people talk about me. Comments like the first one (and other snarky ones after) just make me want to stay away, inside a car. Yes, i'm insecure but do people have to judge me?

I just want to get to work in a reasonable fashion.

It would not be difficult or expensive to add a few mini solar panels to the bike, say the size of car mirrors. They can be bought all over the world and hooked up directly or with a tiny inverter to regulate the poser charge. Complaining won't get us off oil. It's like complaining about drugs. If I switch from heroin to pot, I would still be on drugs, no? well, think about it, and call it harm reduction, and look for solutions. I'm checking out the e-bikes. they are in the thousands of dollars range, but obviously there is a demand. With an e-bike, I could ride in the winter, having the electricity to help me through. Has anyone ever thought about a mini turbine? If you put a mini turbine on the wheel or handlebar, you could keep those batteries charged.Don't you produce wind when you ride fast? Why can't we get some of those mini trucks from South Korea, and the three wheeled cars from India? Money, power, greed could be holding us all back. Yes, safety considerations, but I live in the middle of nowhere. I'd like to have a low priced fuel efficient vehicle that I did not have to uy on credit, that could give me five or more years of reliable transportation while cutting my oil/gas consumption dramatically. I read many of the messages. At least we are all talking about it. We need to make these things affordable.

Ah, the young are so narrow-minded. Its as if the human race has the physical ability to ride a manual-only bike! But in fact, many people who can ride a bike, just do not have the physical endurance to ride one very far. But thanks for thinking about is old folks! Having an electric-assist will open up riding to millions. I'm 50yo and do not own a car; I use PT and walking, and so I am seeking a bike that I can put on the buses front rack! And as for an electric vehicle; keep this in mind: Anyone can generate electricity at home (we are not limited to the grid, folks); solar and wind systems are coming down in price and going up everywhere. I cannot produce fossil fuels at home. Thank you treehugger, for this info!

What a funny argument this person makes regarding ebikes not belonging on tree-hugger.

I have an ebike because I live on a long steep road. People use my road to train for triathlons. I would not use a bike without an electric motor because my area is hilly in general. The choice is an e-bike or a car. I'll walk the six miles to town if we have a societal crash. I do not feel the need to justify my own choice; I just use this example of why a traditional bike does not work for everyone.

Also, I'm older. I've already injured my knees. Judicious cycling might help strengthen them, but over-use will cause further injury. I have a friend that LOVES cycling. She injured her knees skiing and can't cycle anymore. She loves my bike because she can ride around without feeling pain in her knee.

if this person's logic was followed further, traditional bikes do not deserve a forum on tree-hugger because the production of any bike requires mining for metals, use of fossil fuels for building and transport, etc. Not to mention the plastics and paints. It goes on and on....