Interesting. A net search on "tin-phosphate-silcate" produced archival pre-WWII fabric research documents indicating that lead-tin-silicate complexes were once common for sizing silks. Lets hope its no longer in use.

Interesting post.

I feel that it is a green fabric, it doesn't harm the enviroment and its completely biodegradable.

Although there is the mass slauter of millions of moths we do the same to cows, pigs and so forth (and I'm not a vegeterian) thus have no real great concern of that.

Although the shipping side of things does concern me, but then again we have yet to find an different means of transport that is enviromentally friendly so I suppose I just have to accept that because I do love the feeling of it.

Silk is cool to the touch, very cool to wear and feels like heaven against the skin.

The great thing though is the option for those who feel killing the moth is wrong, they have Peace Silk and Ahimsa which is great!!

Very interesting idea...I've always thought of silk as an ideal eco-friendly product, especially for those who have the money to spend! However, it is true that the labor involved is very intensive! Maybe someday we can learn to re-create silk using non-petrolium products. Corn plastic anyone?

I have beech or birch silk sheets that are very nice.

When I was in Cambodia I visited a factory that made silk. They were a charity that employed workers with learning difficulties as well as blind and deaf people, who in a county like Cambodia would find it very hard to find work and would otherwise be a burden for their family.

I feel silk is green, although it is obviously greener if it is fairly traded, and organic (both in the chemicals used on the silk and on the fields of food for the silk worms).

I don't see how there is a problem with silk worm been boiled alive, they do not feel pain and have on emotion, they also have no place in the ecosystem, it's like killing a mobile phone.

"they do not feel pain and have on emotion, they also have no place in the ecosystem"
Wow, I don't even know where to begin with responding to that, but I feel I must. Were you ever a silkworm? They are animals, and as such have a central nervous system not all that different from ours. As a mobile life form, they (unlike plants) have an evolutionary reason to feel pain: it tells them to move away from danger.
As far as emotions, I have seen no evidence to suggest that any insect lacks emotion. I have seen that insects are different enough from me to make it difficult to be even reasonably sure. They are not mammals, they have an exoskeleton, they have no backbone; these things tell me that I don't know what it's like to be a silkworm, and therefore have no place telling everyone else what it's like to be one.
I beleive that you, GJ, also don't know what it's like to be a silkworm.

I think the standard argument that other animals don't feel pain and so don't deserve a life , is just plain stupid.

It's like saying a retarded child is not a full person, so we can do what we want to them.

Because silk is a product made by thousands of very poor people and takes the lives of billions of animals, I don't believe it is green.

^^^

I agree that they are living organisms and deserve better than being boiled a live.

However scientific evidence suggests most if not all insects do not have emotions. What we perceive as insect emotions are really just predefined motor scripts triggered by instinct.

Emotion requires an incredibly complex neural structure therefor insects lack the brain power to feel and/or express emotion.

I think how we treat insects (and their larvae) and a disabled child are in no way similar.

I feel insulted that Stan would compare the two positions. Obviously any human has the same rights as the next, including the right to life. This is completely different to how we should treat a silk worm.

The most important thing is when silk worms are used we do not take from the natural world and are not harming it. When poachers and others take from the natural world they do not just harm that animal or plant but the whole ecosystem, which is the larger crime, this does not exist with silk. The two animals or plants have a different intrinsic right.

There is fairly good reason to say that silk worms do not feel pain. Firstly they do not have pain receptors. And the central nervous system of an insect or its larvae are very different to ours. So they certainly don’t feel pain as we do. Also they are very simple, they obviously can not from emotions; their brain is simply not big enough.

Evolutionary there is not as much need for an insect to feel pain as we do. When we feel pain we learn from that experience (we would not touch a hot iron after touching it once). Pain for us triggers an emotional response, which silk worms are incapable of. A larvae does not have much need for this a generally when it is attacked it will die and the species has evolved a different method of surviving as a species (having so many that some must survive and pass on genes.

I do not know how silk worms feel. But this argument means we can not make any assumptions. Silk worms may enjoy been boiled according to this assuming, we don’t know.

To be honest I don’t care about the life of the silk work, I care about the ecosystem. I don’t care about the life of larvae when it is eaten by a bird of attacked by ants or has wasp egg laid in it. I do care about animals of which there is good evidence that they can suffer, vertebrates and some others such as lobsters.

As far as I am concerned there is almost nothing greener that fair trade, organic silk.

Have you heard of people who literally can't feel pain? They're missing an enzyme or a signal doesn't go through properly. My point being, that their system is a lot similar to that of a person with a "proper" nervous system than an earthworm, and yet such a little difference causes a BIG difference. Food for thought.

Bottom line, human or insect, we don't have the right to exploit either for our own benefits. Period.

I think you are largely right, GJ, about the larger issue of the environment with silk. But if you really feel this way,

"I do care about animals of which there is good evidence that they can suffer, vertebrates and some others such as lobsters."

you might consider going veggie:) It can be very very yummy, and it is certainly very eco-friendly. Usually.

I found your article very interesting - it's nice to see such a thorough and broad-minded analysis of the "green" aspect!

I have one little quibble with the information - Tussah cocoons were *formerly* collected by wandering nomadic tribesmen... but it's no longer the case. Now, the cocoons are typically raised on plantations of their food plants, and there has been significant effort by China and India to expand the culture of these species (Tussah comes from two semi-domesticated species and one major hybrid - Antheraea mylitta, Antheraea pernyi, Antheraea proylei). Most Tussah silk is processed by boiling the cocoons alive to kill them, then winding off the silk; the spun silk is derived from un-reelable cocoons and hatched cocoons used for breeding, but mostly from waste from the reeling process. There are very small amounts of silk being produced as a specialty product in India which allow the moth to survive - this is mostly using Eri moths (Samia ricini).

In response to the comment " Fair Trade silk products are available, but we unaware of any supply of Certified Fair Trade silk fibre or fabric. Not that means it doesn’t exist, of course."

Absolutely, fair trade silk exists. I work with a consortium in Cambodia that develops hand made silk fabric and other silk finished goods. The textile is certified fair trade. All of the products are produced by women brought out of poverty and other disabled individuals. The company has developed a self sustaining enterprise that financially supports its local community with a catering business, soy production facility and silk textile production; all of which pay fair wages and offer quality working conditions.

I help other small manufacturers in Cambodia build their enterprise by introducing the products to the USA market. At this point, retailers appreciate the certified fair trade products and the "green" social cause behind them.

Have a look at some of the certified fair trade silk products. They are well made and organic.
http://shop.expedienttrade.com

Hi all,

I am a writer in Lao and have been writing a series of articles about Madame Kommaly Chantavong who founded Lao Sericulture/Mulberrys after the American war in Vientnam infected Lao with its destructive power, and destroyed its nascent economy.

Lao Sericulture/Mulberrys has been accredited with Fair Trade Status and employs about 200 villages in the north of Lao to produce silk organically. Some villagers raise the cows which manure the trees, others grow the trees, while others raise the worms until they form cocoons. Some villagers specialise in reeling, twisting and spinning. Others grow and gather dye stuffs such as indigo, laq insect resin, hemp root and castor oil plants seeds. In all it takes 17 people to make a Lao scarf. All the stages use traditional methods and yes it is labour intensive, but as Lao rural incomes are so marginal, having the income from sericulture can make the difference between having a water supply or sanitation and not. Most villages I visited did not have electricity. Lao has a tradition of complex silk weaving as old as the Silk Road. Sericulture is a good way to maintain and build on that tradition, while modren development projects such as hydropower and mining subsume that dignity under a mantra of economic growth for the few but at the dertiment of the many.

The worms are eaten. They provide a great source of protein and are a good weaning food for babies, being soft and easily mashed. They are not my taste but nor was the squirrel I had for breakfast a few months ago in the mountians. Its just what people eat.

Lao's like Cambodians traditionally eat insects. That's what comes from not having a choice. You can afford to be picky and ethical if you gave money and a supply of alternatives or if it not your culture.

We are hoping to find markets for Lao organic silk so that more Lao can be involved. Right now the country is at the mercy of huge Chinese conglomerates, Thai's in search of additional elecricity generating capacity and Vietnamese plundering forests. Silk may be the few remaining sustainable lights.

We are hoping that sericulture can gain villagers regular income and that over time we can scale up production. Kommaly won the UNESCO prize in 2006 for handcraft excellence and was nominated for Nobel peace prize for artistic endeavour.. She is some lady!

melody kemp
Vientiane.

I think that silk could in a sense be considered as green in terms of being renewable and biodegradable but it's not ethical, because it involves animal cruelty and I don't think something that does this can be considered as kind to the planet, if we include all living things in that definition. It would be nice if all 'green' and 'ethical' fabrics could be animal friendly as well.

This is a post from a silk lover for ever:
Thanks for all those comments 'for and against ' calling sericulture practice green or not.
If we can call taking milk from cows and buffallows (meant for their calves)and eating eggs ( meant for next generation) are not green then we can say 'yes silk in present practice is not green'.

The pupa inside the mulberry cocoons which are meant for reeling do live normally, but after a couple of weeks,moths metamorphasize and the moths that come out piercing them live only for two to five days -just to mate and lay eggs. Killing them in advance to take the continuous thread of silk is to be debated as green practice or not.
My sugggestion is:
But we can change over years slowly to a healthy practice using eco freindly inputs, follow natur efriendly practices to reel silk from mupberry and use ecodyes and produce in a freindly atmosphere for both producerand processor is called green . hope this will help in future course of action.
But tehre is no debate on silk- SILK IS ONLY SILK -NO OTHER FABRIC CAN COMPETE.

I think it is wrong to exploit moths in this manner.

I will not buy new silk (I will buy it secondhand) as I am vegetarian, and I am vegetarian for environmental reasons as well as ethical ones. I find it hard to comprehend that people will argue that silk is OK for the environmentally concious person.
There is also a lot of human exploitation in the silk industry, The People Tree do have a couple of silk dresses in their catalogue, but on the whole it as bad as the rest of the clothing industry in India.

Yes Silk is green, as green as it can be considering the distance it has to travel to be sold and worn.
I work with silk weavers in Laos and without doubt silk keeps some of the poorest people in South East Asia alive. The people of Laos are often on the brink of desperation and silk is the life blood of many, many villages.
As well as this the mulberry keeps the locals from heading south to Thailand in search of streets paved in gold, or from working for the foreign mining companies raping their land of precious minerals to haul back to China or Australia.
We work directly with the mulberry growers, who harvest the silk and then spin it. Without this the village would be back to scratching at rocks looking for anything that moves to eat.
As for silk worms themselves, it is a cycle, some are removed before they hatch and are eaten as a source of protein, others are allowed to hatch as to ensure the continuance of the process.
The girls that weave the silk are themselves developing a skill that has been much neglected, and although design and method compromises have to be made in favour of western markets, ethically it is fair. It is very unfair however to say that all silk production is to be written off as bad as every other fabric. Also to be remembered is that most silk, particularly in Laos, is grown, spun, dyed and woven in close proximity.
As well as this is that silk uses relatively little water. Cotton however guzzles it, our most precious resource. In addition a large proportion is grown in the USA, sent to India to be treated and dyed, and then maybe woven, or it could be sent elsewhere like Turkey or China for this, and only then is it sent to one of thousands of factories across Asia dealing in clothing production, in order to most likely be sent back to the west for sale and eventually try and rot in the over hot, over stuffed landfills.
In my opinion silk is as green and ethical as is possible within the textile industry.
Assuming of course it comes from Laos!

www.magiclaocarpets.com