GM: 100 Equinox Fuel Cell Vehicles in 2007
by Michael Graham Richard, Gatineau, Canada on 09.18.06
Following in the footsteps of Honda, GM wants to put fuel cell vehicles (FCVs) on the road to learn more about them from real world experience. They plan to have a hundred Chevrolet Equinox FCVs in customers' hand (probably leased) in California, the New York metropolitan area and Washington D.C. in the fall 2007. The vehicle will be made in GM's Oshawa plant (Canada) and it will be marketed under the Chevrolet brand. It's not yet clear how successfully GM will address problems such as cost, availability of fuel, how to make the fuel in the first place (fossil fuels?), and competition from other very promising technologies such as plug-in hybrids and electric vehicles (both can use the current liquid fuel and electrical infrastructures, unlike hydrogen cars).
The Equinox Fuel Cell is powered by a fourth-generation, 93kW fuel-cell stack. The stack will operate in temperatures ranging from 13° F to +113° F (-25° C to +45° C).Three carbon fiber fuel tanks store 4.2 kg (9.24 lb) of hydrogen at 700 bar (10,000 psi). A 35 kW NiMH battery pack supplements the fuel cell and captures energy from regenerative braking. The 3-phase asynchronous electric motor generates 73 kW of continuous power (94 kW maximum) and torque of 320 Nm (236 lb-ft).
The Equinox Fuel Cell accelerates from 0-60 mph in 12 seconds; has a top speed of 100 mph (160 kph); and has an operating range of 200 miles (320 km).
Of course it's interesting to see automakers do R&D in various green transportation areas, but we can wonder if GM really believes that FCVs are on the close horizon (shouldn't they start with decent high-mileage hybrids and plug-in hybrids and then move on to hydrogen?) or if they are just looking for a halo effect in the mainstream media by talking about H2 and help the company improve its image without changing its modus operandi. You can share your thoughts about this and the Equinox FCV in the comments below.
::GM to Put 100 Hydrogen-Run Vehicles on the Road in 2007, ::GM Chevrolet Announces Equinox Fuel Cell Vehicle; Commits to Launch 100-Vehicle Fleet in 2007, ::GM to build fuel-cell vehicles in Oshawa. See also ::2007 GM Saturn Aura to be Available as Hybrid
Any indication of the cost of production? Last time I heard hydrogen Mercedes A-Classes were about one million dollars each. Although this has no doubt fallen somewhat, I bet these Chevrolet Equinoxs cost a lot more to produce than a Tesla Roadster.
And Tesla Roadsters are produced by a start up, not by GM who have been working on hydrogen vehicles for over a decade.
GM plans to start mass production of hyrdogren vehicles when exactly?
Hydrogen - the fuel of the perpetual future.
James
Alternative Energy Blog
This car is more for testing drive by wire and other systems than a fuel cell and hydrogen.
My bad that's this one http://www.hugg.com/story/Sequel-Test-Drive-Part-1-Intro/
The one that is a test bed for things other than fuel cells.
More GM PR machine. I don't think they ever really intended on building a hydrogen powered car, it was a strategy to make people think they were actually doing something, without going to the expense of developing a real car. A lot of people unfortunately think fuel cells are the hot ticket for the near future.
Well, maybe but not for a decade or two, and then maybe never in cars. We just don't have the time for an unproven technology that might never really work.
We need to get light weight super high mpg cars on the road now and develop electric cars quickly. There is no infrastructure to distribute hydrogen, no way to make it without wasting vast amounts of energy, and the fuel cells themselves may never be cost effective.
GM just thinks we're all stupid, which is why they are trying to sell us the over weight and under engineered products they currently make.
"This car is more for testing drive by wire and other systems than a fuel cell and hydrogen."
Anything in particular makes you say that? It would be a lot simpler to test these other things in a gasoline or all-electric car.
Nevermind my previous comment, your correction just popped up.
Ah and the irrational hate for GM rears it's head. No one was saying it was a BMW PR machine a few days ago on their hydrogen car.
There certainly is a lot of dislike for GM in "green" circles, but I'm not so sure it's all irrational. GM would need to do a few really good things to change its reputation and reduce people's skepticism towards them.
I'm still waiting for their two-mode hybrid. It sounds good in theory, but as long as it's vaporware, it's hard to be impressed.
Sorry for being slightly off topic, but the "This car is more for testing drive by wire..." bit scares me :) . Hope they really, really test this well before it hits the mass market...the current reality of automotive recalls is already frightening enough.
To my knowledge, the most they could currently do by law was throttle-by-wire (your speed is governed by wire, steering no). But this takes it one dangerous step further.
Oughta be interesting. Certainly they'll go that route for cost and weight savings eventually...(just their testing isn't up to aerospace's level [I've worked as an engineer in both industries], and you're starting to approach that criticality...one guy blows it on a highway and you can get a pretty nice pileup real fast).
And back on topic, I agree with the general consensus here, it smells like a PR smokescreen. They'll do anything to keep you pumping something :) (I'd love to hear a taped boardroom confession from top execs on why they fear plugging in so badly!).
"Ah and the irrational hate for GM rears it's head."
Disliking GM is highly rational. What's irrational is to jump on any criticism of GM as being "irrational".
They are a bad company. Face the facts.
As Ben Stein would say "Wow." A car without a fuel infrastructure. And if you're a person who has seen that documentary about GM's EV-1, do you want to trust the company for what they did to the leasees?
To the last poster, please define what makes GM a bad company. Who are you compairing them to? You do know they are one of only 4 car companies to have a form of hybrid on the market. It might be a mild hybrid but it still boosts MPG by 20%.
If you look at the resources used to build, operate, maintain and dispose of a motor vehicle I guess no car company can be called good, no not even Toyota (ya checked the MPG on their SUV's it ain't any better than GM's. Ya seen their new big fullsize pickup too. Gonna take a bunch of Prius' to off set that sucker.)
At the end of the day it's just fashonable to bash the "Big 3" in the treehugger set. Those of us who are less knee jerk are tired of it. Toyota or Honda come out with a new less poluting product and they're the greatest in the world, GM or Ford do the same and they get bashed.
Erm, I said that the BMW H2 7 was a joke aswell. I hate everyone peddeling the hydrogen myth equally.
Tim,
Unfortunately, GM has a long history of promising "breakthrough innovations, that will be here next year!"
Without ever actually coming to market, or if so in a very limited fashion.
For GM's EV from the 90s, they were given hundreds of millions of dollars for "research and development". The result? a few thousand cars are leased only, and leased only in CA and then GM forces the people to give the cars back so GM could crush them when the lease was up.
Remember GM's hype about the FANTASTIC diesel cars that were going to drastically improve fuel economy?
Yea, GM gave diesel cars a black eye in the U.S. for going on 25+ years for the crappy product that they released.
To use your example above, When Toyota has a new technology to introduce, they don't just hype it and then do nothing. They hype it and then back it up by bring it to market. Proof, the thousands of Prius' on the road in the U.S. today.
Same for VW, BMW, Audi, Honda, etc...
Now, GM and Honda both have a super new Hydrogen system that will "be in stores soon"
Honda will bring this to market, GM will do a PR Smoke screen.
What makes me write that? B/C Honda has a proven history backing up what they say by bringing innovative products to market and GM has a proven history of doing a whole lot of marketing hype about innovative products and then doing nothing.
"At the end of the day it's just fashonable to bash the "Big 3" in the treehugger set. Those of us who are less knee jerk are tired of it."
"Irrational", "knee jerk", yada yada.
The GM EV lessee's knew that they would have to five them back. And they were not only released in CA.
No I don't remember any hype about GM and diesel, have a reference? I'm thinking that's before my time.
Toyota is talking about plug in but has not committed a date yet. They are years away. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060719/AUTO01/607190402/1148/rss25
http://www.toyota.com/about/environment/news/index.html
What you would call a PR smoke screen.
Honda brings to market huh? Where is this car? http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/100335/article.html
Notice the date.
Sorry but Knee jerk fits, many times when I see articles about the Big 3 comments bashing them follow.
People bash GM on the electric car, where are the other major automakers electric cars. That's right they all quit building them as soon as CARB dropped the ZEV requirement.
GM did do a sucky job with the diesel car the first time around. The EV1 is another black eye.
I'm not really a GM fan but I am going to say what they're doing right:
- Displacement on demand
- Idle stop on the "hybrid" (ya I admit they shouldn't call em hybrid) full size trucks.
- The mild hybrid system in the Saturn Green line, 20% better MPG is a good thing. (This system should be able to be used on many of their 4cyl vehicles)
- Electic accessory drive rather than belt driven items.
- Moving to 6 speed automatic transmissions.
More GM no good tidbits.
http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2006/09/gms_doing_as_mu_1.html#more
You act like dislike of GM is limited to "irrational", "knee jerk" treehuggers.
Dislike of GM is widespread. And it's totally rational.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/
The truth about cars site is just one on many that slam GM where are they now at GM deathwatch 1000.
The truth is I don't like GM myself, so why defend them. I said it before when ever a US car company announces something it's jumped on and torn apart in a knee jerk way. At the same time it seems Japan can do no wrong. For full disclosure I have 2 cars that I drive, one is a Honda and the other is a Ford. I like cars and have followed the auto industry for over 20 years. I don't ride a bike or take public transit as they are not options for me but I wish they were.
"Who has a fuel cell vehicle, GM, well it must be crap!"
If the answer was Honda they would be praised with "yet another innovation".
BTW I would like full disclosure, how many people here are bashing a car company when they don't know much about cars. I find it funny but so many of the people with stong opinions on cars don't even drive them.
I have an old Popular Science magazine (about 1994) that had a GM gas reforming fuel cell car on the cover. They talked like it was in the final phases of development and would be produced.
They did a bunch of fuel cell stuff back then, including producing fuel cell powered city buses. It just never seemed to go anywhere. It just gives the impression that GM just can't pull it off.
Granted, Toyota builds some gas guzzling SUVs in addition to Priuses. They will build what people want, even if it isn't effecient.
However, I give them a lot of credit for developing the hybrid when there wasn't any demand for it. They took it upon themselves to get ahead of the curve and invest in the future.
It seems like GM is always stumbling along two steps behind, reacting rather than innovating. I hope that is just a perception...
Gm has produced fuel cell bus's that are currently in use. They may not be the best corporation, certainly not the worst. As someone else has said the GM bashing has gotten old.
The terms "bashing", "irrational", and "knee jerk" are all irrational terms meant to label legitimate criticism as being emotional, not reasonable.
GM has, for a very long time, been fighting against fuel efficiency, safety, emissions, and all sorts of other advances which would help people out. Now the chickens have come home to roost, financially, showing the short-sightedness of their heavy reliance of massive SUVs for profits during the 90s.
This is the same company that is currently running commercials showing one guy buying tofu and another guy buying stacks of meat, then showing the tofu-buyer running off to get a Hummer to compensate for the "obvious" lack of manliness that buying tofu indicates. They also run a commercial where Suburban Mom's kid gets cut off at the playset, so her "solution" is to go get a massive vehicle to intimidate people.
GM is absolutely uninterested in fuel efficiency. They don't even make their own vehicle in the subcompact segment. Cavalier? Cobalt? Ha.
GM bashing is for idiots.
Hydrogen bashing is for smart people.
I gotta admit those Hummer ads are putting out a stupid message. They represent the part of GM I dislike.
I'd take any future thing I see in Pop Sci with a grain of salt. I remeber reading an article about hydrogen 20 years ago that went on and on about how great it is to use as a fuel without the bad.
With so much research being done on alt fuels and future vehicles I am not convinced that hydrogen will always be a bad choice.
Hydrogen is can be looked as as an energy storage medium rather than a fuel. If it can be produced cleanly and efficently (unlike the energy intensive, carbon releasing process currently used to get it from natural gas) then fuel cell vehicles have a great future. If not then hydrogen is not the way to go.
Hydrogen bashing is not for smart people. Smart people can see the benifits and drawbacks of any tech.
One thing we can all agree on, the automotive status quo is harmful and not sustainable and so we need solutions. Telling people to stop driving overnight won't work. It took us around 100 years to get to where we are and it'll take a long time change peoples attitudes towards personal mobility.
Ok, ok, maybe not hydrogen bashing, but hydrogen scepticism.
It is take to long. We need spend more to get it done now.
I used to love GM till I saw the EV1 scandal. I sold my gas guzzler 2500 8.1 silverado and bought a Honda Civic hybrid.
Honda has put 100 FCX (Hydrogen fuell cell) vehicles into the LA area along with reverse fuel cell hydrogen generators that power the homes of the lucky ones as well as provide fuel for the cars. The fuel cells run off natural gas. Equivalent of 100mpg vs gasoline. I would assume you could adapt any hydrogen generator to supplement the system as long as it was clean hydrogen.
Honda will market the FCX in the US in 2008.
Better get with it BIG 3.
Hey there kids... Been a GM vendor to their alternative fuels and hybrid vehicles for nearly 20 years now. The REAL culprits behind "to fuel cell or not to fuel or hybrid".
1. Biggest prohibition..... GOVERNMENT REGULATIONS. (your politicians can't tax if if they don't use fuel.)
2. The oil lobby.
3. OLD BATTERIES ARE FAR FAR FAR MORE BAD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT THAT THE EXHAUST THEY SPEW...... FACT. Their manufacture and disposal require far more energy than they could ever hope to save and all their cells, batery acid and so on......... CURRENTLY UNSAFE AND PRONE TO EXPLOSION, LEAKAGE AND MINI-ENVIRO DISASTERS when in a large scale crash.
Quit reading the propoganda in the mass media there children and start asking questions of the folks who DO AND HAVE worked on these vehicles. How many of you fools here drive to protests in busses or your SUV's ??? How many more of you will want to scoop up battery acid off the pavement when your "green car" gets wrapped around one of them trees you so love ???
Does anyone who owns a current foreign hybrid really know what damage it is doing to the environment. Well let me give you some info. In order to make the hybrid systems the nickel needs to be obtained and processed. This alone is a major polluter to the environment. One of the hybrid plants in Canada is void of all vegetation for miles around the plant itself. It is so bad that NASA actually uses that area to test their rovers used on plants and moons.... Think about that before you go and by your "environmentally friendly" hybrid.
GM earned a bad reputation for making a lot of cars that did not have top quality. However, I notice that people are not noticing how the Japanese are having quality problems as well now. To site a few examples:
Toyota's brand new Camry has a six speed transmision. Toyota rushed it out to catch up to GM. Unfortunately, widespread breakdowns are well known on the 2007 model. Consumer Reports gives it a way below average and no longer recommends the car.
Honda brought out a new five speed automatic transmission on the 2000 Acura TL. For the next four years (and it also affected some 2003 V6 Honda Accords as well) transmission failures were part of the expected with this car. I owned one, lost my transmission at 61,000. On my Accord, lost it at 51,000. Still have the Accord, dumped the Acura. Consumre Reports recommends these cars, but warns of these problems.
Previous generation Toyota Camry's are reported to have engine sludge problems. My neighbor had his engine fail on his 2001 Camry at 48,000 miles. Out of warranty, Toyota forced him to pay about $8000 for a new engine.
In the media about a month ago, Toyota had a recall on a number of RAV-4s since they accidently built them with Toyota Corolla suspensions, and are worried about premature failures.
I went out recently (by recent, over two years ago) and bought a GM product. This one was recommended by consumer reports, drives fairly well, and is reliable. Low and behold, it runs better than my Honda Accord, gets good gas mileage, and is reliable at 26,000 miles.
Again, this is just a few examples of both personal experience and established reports in the media. I understand how perception preceeds reality for a long time. It took a long time for GM to earn its bad reputation, now it will take a long time for it to lose it. I for one will probably buy selective GM products going forward as long as I can base it on media reports that they have good, reliable products (which some models are).
Hello!
I am Djuro Kuzmic borned 1960., live and working in Koprivnica wich is located in continental part of Croatia. Since my 18 years old I had drove many types of vehicle. Every month i drove for 2000-3000km. I have read in newspaper about yours eco car who have impressed my whit his look and performance. I wan't to take a part of your program of testing Chevrolet Equinox Fuel Cell. If you give me one car for three months of testing, I will suggest what do you need to do for your car to be improved wich will help you whit promoting your car on Europ market.
Whit best regards
Djuro Kuzmic
48000 Koprivnica,
Croatia.