Wal-Mart Aims To Sell 100 Million Compact Fluorescents In One Year

First step- Stop selling _all_ incandescent lightbulbs.

I'm very, very glad they're doing this.

I still won't shop there, however, nor do I want any Wal-Marts near me in NYC until Wal-Mart freely allows their employees to unionize and stops bullying their suppliers.

But good for them on this front, anyway.

Having over 80% of the light sources in my house either regular fluorescent or CFLs I can say that the CFLs that Wal-Mart is selling do not last nearly as long as the ones I have purchased from other sources (namely Home Depot). They seem to last only twice as long as a standard bulb.

Though I applaud Wal-Mart in their push to increase CFL usage I hope their sale of low quality CFLs do not push people away from them.

Even the Home Depot ones (Consumer Electric) are crappy. I've taken to keeping the clam shell packages so that when they blow, I can return them. As they are supposed to last 7 years, this works without any problem. But I just assume the darn things lasted as long as they say they do.

The CFLs sold at Ikea seem to have pretty good lifespans, and they have a good variety of sizes & wattage.

Agree,

GE may have a huge market share of bulbs bot NOT cfl's.

GE CFL's overheat and do not last. Also, WalMart charges to much for them.

Home Depot regularly has 6 60w equivalents for $10 less than $2 a bulb and you can return then (with packaging) if they don't last.

Lowes also has good bulbs at reasonable prices.

It is probably your electric lines not deliverying clean energy to the bulbs and blowing them. That's what my house does. It's not the bulbs.

Yeah, I have a real problem with all the claims of long life of CFLs and flourescents in general. The government or consumer reports need to test these bulbs and make sure the claims are validated. I had to replace the ballast in my kitchen lighting fixture before it was two years old.

Here is a good rule to go by. If a particular outlet blew a CFL "don't replace it with a CFL" unless you fix the wiring. There are 2 outlets in my house that don't have a bulb in them for this reason (too lazy to fix them) a third one I fixed the loose wiring and no more problems. Someone should come up with a skrew in tester to see if the line is good.

Now how about Walmart, Home Depot and the rest of the big box stores add CFL recycling station. Ikea is one of the only places I know where you can take dead ones. (I mean of course the ones that died of "natural causes" and not "infant mortality")

I don't think I'll be buying anymore this year. And it is not because I love to hate Wal- Mart. They have been sticking these bulbs in front of my nose at 74 cents each on and off for the past year which makes it very hard not to buy them. I'm well stocked. . Now, about their claim of saving 30% enregy. Keep a close eye on this America. We may learn something of extreme value here.
J. C., Sr.

Here's what will happen: The customer will go home, put it into their fixture, turn down the lights for a romantic dinner, and promptly blow the bulb.

Then they'll return it to Wal*Mart, buy a "normal" bulb, and eschew CF bulbs entirely, because they "don't work right."

Here's a thought: Instead of selling the CFLs of dubious quality, Wal-Mart could offer a lightbulb exchange program. Bring in an incandescent bulb and get a CFL in return. That is, if W-M were genuine in its desire to "save $800 million in annual energy costs and 8.4 billion kilowatt hours of electricity" and to create the air pollution reduction equivalent of "removing 1.2 million cars from the road for a year."

as stated above these lightbulbs last less longer than claimed and then who's going to make sure wal mart shoppers take them to the toxic waste disposal site because of the mercury they contain????
I think we'll see an increase in mercury pollution. For wal mart consumers to really make a difference they should be given free condoms and other birth control education.

I only started using CFLs a year ago and haven't had any problems but I just moved to a new apartment. How can I tell if a socket or outlet is likely to blow my CFL without ruining one in the process?

Before you buy anymore cf bulbs take one apart by prying off the plastic housing. You may be surprised to find more than you bargained for

The lifetime of a CFL is directly proportional to the number of times it has been turned on to the length that it was left on. It is a flourescent bulb, meant to stay on efficiently for long amounts of time, not flipped on and off (I learned this the hard way). Yay CFLs, boo incandescents.

It is not like they are expensive and most are rated for 3-4 times longer than an incandescent. There is a hell of a lot of whining going on here. I know a majority of my wiring is bad, it's over 50 years old in some parts. I never thought about disposal before.

In my experience, CFLs work well in certain situations, and not others. Specifically, they don't work well when switched on and off repeatedly, such as in hallways. They also don't like humidity like in bathrooms (and they definitely shouldn't be used outside unless they're made specifically for outside use). Also, as someone already mentioned, they can't be used with standard dimmers.
That still leaves a lot of places where they work well, such as in bedrooms and living rooms, etc. I also like that they run a lot cooler than standard bulbs, so I'm less worried about fire risks in paper lamps or torchiere style floor lamps. As for the places were they still don't work well, I hope LED lightbulbs will be available at reasonable prices within a couple of years.

"if every one of 110 million American households bought just one [CFL], took it home, and screwed it in the place of an ordinary 60-watt bulb, the energy saved would be enough to power a city of 1.5 million people. One bulb swapped out, enough electricity saved to power all the homes in Delaware and Rhode Island. In terms of oil not burned, or greenhouse gases not exhausted into the atmosphere, one bulb is equivalent to taking 1.3 million cars off the roads."
http://www.fastcompany.com/subscr/108/open_lightbulbs.html

CFLs seem fine in terms of energy usage, but what about color tone? I am surrounded by blue-white fluorescent light at work all day and I enjoy coming home to a bright but warm halogen or incandescent light. Is anybody making CFLs with alternate tones? Is that even possible?

How about the light thrown off by CFLs? How does it compare to the Reveal incandescent bulbs from GE? My wife and I switched to those bulbs and LOVE them, especially during the winter.

I've got a home full of juice sucking bulbs I'd love to switch, but almost every one of them is on a dimmer.

I'm ready to pay a premium for dimmer CF bulbs, but I can't even find them for sale through major online retailers like Amazon.

Don't worry light bulb sellers, I won't be wasting my money on these stupid bulbs. They don't light as well as a good old fashioned light bulbs. Treehuggers be damned.

I've started using CFLs. Haven't had to replace one yet, so no idea how long they might last. Regular light bulbs weren't lasting but a few months.

I much prefer the "warm" (yellow) versions, but the only source I've found runs about $8/bulb. Is that expensive?

Also planning on replacing many light switches for many rooms with motion sensor switches, and all outdoor lights with X.10 networked switches and program scheduling.

I have to agree with jiltedcitizen. The problem is probably your building wiring or local utility supply. I have had CFL bulbs (some from Wal-Mart) for as long as eight years. They also don't last long in enclosed fixtures. I have to say I'm a little disappointed by all the vitriol toward WalMart's efforts to head in a greener direction. The way to encourage change isn't to bash what someone isn't doing, but to praise what they are doing. Who of you out there could be doing more, using less than you are?

Dimmable CFLs: http://bulbs.com/products/product.asp?page=products&class=871

I've been using CFLs for, well, about four years now? Maybe five.

In most cases, they do last far FAR longer than incandescents, but every now and then you'll pick up a dud. So I try to remind myself to save the packaging, but it is hard to do in practice. (Usually I'd end up buying a new bulb of the same time, and putting the old bulb into that package, and exchanging.) But life is far longer. NOTE: The bulbs live a shorter life in a totally vacuum-tight space.

Color spectrum differences don't seem to be an issue. All of the ones I've gotten are warm. I suppose I could find cool colors if I search for them, but the warms match incandescents well.

A few of mine, especially towards the beginning years ago, were not instant-on. Make sure you buy bulbs that say that are instant-on, or there will be a small delay between turning on the switch and the bulbs coming on, which is a bit disconcerting.

I haven't had a good experience with dimmables yet, and it is too bad, because I'm eating up to 120 watts over my dining room table with old bulbs I can't replace.

Slightly noticeable is how the bulbs will take a few minutes to get to 100% intensity. Seems to matter in the bathroom more than anywhere else, but I think I'm the only one who notices.

My house is probably 90% CFL at this point. The remaining lights are true fluorescent, and then I have those dining room incandescents because I need the dimming.

Old fashioned fluorescents are probably out the door because they're so inconvenient, and their size and number makes them suck down energy.

I've also been using CFLs for a while -- since 2000 -- and not one has yet died. I don't know anything about the quality of Wal-Mart or GE bulbs, but if they're sold at competitive prices, they'll offer a net $ savings when you compare lifetime energy cost saved to purchase price, even if they only do last two or three times as long. If they last the more typical 6-10 times as long, it's a no-brainer.

As for color quality, they're livable, and I've come to prefer them. It was mentioned earlier that CFL lifetimes are related to the frequency of switching on-off, but some analyses have suggested that you get a net energy (and cost) savings by switching the bulb off whenever you don't need it, even if only for a minute or so (just like incandescents). So don't waste energy out of a misguided desire to extend your $3 bulb's operating life.

Downsides: I've known some people who are sensitive to the high-pitched buzzing (inaudible to most people). Also, older bulbs had a tendency to interfere with radio reception. Last, the dimmer CFLs work, but I've never seen one with a really smooth dimming curve.

Overall, I hope Wal-Mart is successful in changing this industry and Americans' lighting habits. Maybe they can do something about non-rechargeable batteries next.

they flicker :(

The math in the article seems to have a mistake in it... 100 million CFLs taking the place of that many incandescents doesn't stop 100 million incandescent bulbs from being manufactured, packaged, sold and discarded... since the CFL's last "6, 8 or 10 times the life of an incandescent", you are looking at a figure between 600 million and an odd billion.

If replacing my light bulb helps reduce our dependence on foreign oil, why not? Who cares who makes them and who sells them? Everyone will start selling them more aggressively if demand increases.

Thnaks for the dimmable bulb info. I didn't know there was such a thing. And I don't know if it says it on the package. But I learned the hard expensive way. Looks like I'll be swapping them out for incandescents until I can jsutify the high cost of the dimmable ones.

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editor note: If you consider the electricity costs and factor in the extra-longevity of CFLs, I think even the dimmable ones are cheaper than incandescents.

So what about all those lamps where the lampshade clamped onto the lightbulb :)

Secondary effects...

"So what about all those lamps where the lampshade clamped onto the lightbulb :)"

You can get CFLs that have a round shape like incandescent bulbs.

"If replacing my light bulb helps reduce our dependence on foreign oil, why not? Who cares who makes them and who sells them? Everyone will start selling them more aggressively if demand increases."

Err what does light bulbs have to do with foreign oil? If anything coal is generating the energy for your bulbs.

Anyway what about those long lasting halogen bulbs? I don't think they are more efficient than an incandescent, but they last a lot longer and are bright. I have 2 in my bathroom going on 2 years now.

This is a good move, and nationally it will save a lot of energy if a significant percentage of incandecent bulbs are replaced. BUT NOTE, we are really entering the swan-song for CFLs too. Within 5 years LED replacements for typical home bulbs will sweep the stage. Consider, LEDs are much cheaper and simpler to make than CFLs, instant on, better color, no flicker, and will last the life of the house !

If the halogens last longer and use more energy that balance out to using a plain old incandescent bulb doesn't it.

That's what I'm asking does anyone know any data on them? Maybe in 5 years. 70 LEDS = the light of a 15-20 watt bulb? Seems kinda low.
http://www.besthomeledlighting.com/product/G32-120-E27-70-W

I thought that LED lights were the future.
(although horrendously expensive at this time)

Does anyone know what the power comparisons are LED vs Fluorescents?

We just started buying CFLs when we purchased our new house. They work great.

One, halogen lamps are more roughly 20% more efficient than the typical incandescent lamp and halogens last about 2 to 4 times longer, but they cost substantially more than incandescents. Halogens do have a slightly higher CRI right at 100 (color rendering index) which means that Halogens are the best source of light for rendering true colors. They are almost used as a standard in museums to illuminate artwork. GE Reveal lamps use neodymium to filter out some of the yellow output of the lamp to allow for a brighter more white light at a slight cost to efficiency.

CFL's operate with a CRI of 80 out of 100 which is slightly below the median range of traditional fluorescent lamps which are in the mid-80's. This means most CFL's or fluorescent lamps can show colors well, but not super great. Both types of fluorescent produce sharp peaks of light in the color spectrum which overall appear as a form of white light. Incandescent in contrast, produces a more even band of radiation emission in the visual spectum. This difference causes fluorescents to show some colors well, but no fluorescent will render all colors well all the time. It depends on if you use a cool white (color temp above 5000K), warm white (below 3000K) or other color temperature. Different color temperatures may appear to have different luminance intensity levels and may appear to make spaces brighter or dimmer even though the same amount of luminous energy is being produced and emitted by the light fixture.

For the question of whether this is good or not, of course it is. Just don't use CFL's in spaces that experience frequent switching. This will make the lamp life end prematurely and CFL's take much longer to achieve full operating light levels, usually 3 to 5 minutes, which may not work in most bathrooms, as I have found out.

CFL's aren't as efficient as traditional fluorescents, but are still about 3-4 times more efficient than incandescents, I think a 20W CFL is more comparable to a 60W incan rather than a 15W CFL.

Dimming CFL's are available commercially, but probably less likely on the residential market. They will not work with incandescent dimmers. Dimming CFL's are most commonly not screw-in, but have pin-based lamp bases. Dimming CFL's regardless are much more expensive.

CFL's of course contain mercury, but with such trace amounts that they probably offset the pollution used to power them. More efforts should be made to recycle CFL's, but currently they make up a small fraction of the residential market. The recycling of commercial fluorescent lamps (a much bigger market than residential lighting) is a mature industry even though it doesn't have a 100% recycling rate either.

LED's are hitting the ground running. As someone mentioned, they are being produced right now with a screw-in type base and may become mainstream within a few years. LED's have exceptionally high life (around 50,000 hours for white LED's) and are about as efficient as fluorescent lamps. However, LED's still require work on their CRI or ability to render colors accurately. Also, work is still being done to enhance the ability of the LED to focus its light in a direction that is useful. LED light is currently very diffuse. Time will be required to establish a manufacturing base to economically mass produce LED lamps for use in a common residential light fixture.

Hope this helps someone.

"Does anyone know what the power comparisons are LED vs Fluorescents?"

Unless I'm misremembering, LEDs are less efficient than CFLs at this time, but they are expected to become more efficient.

It can be kind of a moot point if you need them for directional light, though, since LEDs are more easily focused in a particular direction.

Their main benefit is that they are incredibly durable.

LED consumer very little energy, they are just not as bright as CFL and incandesants. Look the he specs on these lights
http://autolumination.com/home.htm
I also found a 72 led screw in bulb and it said it was about the same as a 20 watt bulb. Anyone have dirct lumen comparisons?

Why are we spending so much effort replacing light bulbs when our 150 watt computers are running full steam ahead for hours on end? We're talking about saving 37 watts of electricity (23 watt CFL = 60 watt regular). You would have to run a CFL bulb non-stop for 27 hours to save 1 kilowatt hour. One kilowatt hour (delivered) costs around 10 cents. If you were a business that was opened 24/7, you would save a whopping 65 cents per bulb per week.

It will take the average home user 6 months to one year of daily use to merely repay the premium of these CFL bulbs. Why not focus on our energy hungry computers, our heated dishwashers, our electric clothes dryers, and our kilowatt thirsty air conditioners before worrying about saving a few dozen watts?

Think about it: WalMart would only want to sell 100 million of something that had a perky profit margin. Do you honestly believe it costs $2 - $3 per bulb to mass manufacture these?

Michael Smith, my answer to your comment would be:

1) We can do more than one thing at once.

2) Obsolete incandescent bulbs (they should be called "heating bulbs" instead of "light bulbs") are a low hanging fruit. They are easy to change, inexpensive and the aggregate of those 100 million bulbs is an enormous amount of energy that is currently being wasted.

I would love to replace these 500W halogen torchiers (aka "Easy Bake Ovens") I have all over.

Has anyone found a decent flourescent floor lamp that puts out anywhere near that amount of light? All I have found are equivalent to about 150W incandescent or traditional long tube flourescents that would require a ceiling fixture.

I'm also interested in being able to choose the light "temperature" (color).

LED's are not as efficient as marketers as claiming. An earlier post showing a 70 some odd cluster of LED's was about as bright as a 20 watt bulb. That is the general truth. The problem is size. Currnt production LED's are small. For light bulbs, you want bigger = more efficient. That 70 LED cluster is cirtainly more efficient than a 20w incandescent bulb. By the time you get 100's of LED's together to make a 60w bulb, efficiency is about the same as the 60w bulb it's replacing. As time goes on, LED's will get bigger so that fewer will be needed to make a "bulb", and make the efficiency better. There is a limit for LED's size because of HEAT, and the fact that they are made out of materials that melt at a fairly low temperature. As time goes on, and as LED's get bigger, cooling will be a bigger and bigger issue. By the time you get up to something that replaces a 60w bulb with the same amount of light with only one or very few powerfull LED's, I don't even think such a thing is possible without extensive cooling. Even then, that powerfull single LED would be about as efficient as current production CFL's.

I use CFL for more than 18 years. They are now much smaller and offer much better light than before. A good new CFL is silent to everyone (keep looking if you can still ear a sound out of them after 1 minutes of powering it up). Trust me, it was not true in the 80’s or 90’s even for an “electronic model”.

The US EnergyStar program has reviewed several one for Color and efficiency. (They documented guideline for several parameters). Look at there logo: in my experience, it gives some indication on the light quality of the CFL. Some CFL advertise their CRI index on the package – A CRI over 80 is generally good enough but this is a matter of taste and specific application. Again, since about 2002, if you take some time looking, you will find very good one. These CFL are not all created equal.

Some CFL are nearly instant one. I believe that 95% of the output is available after only 1 second. They are generally somewhat more expensive. I have some of those for at least 3 years now. These are 7 watts CFL inserted in a glass (very similar to a standard incandescent lamp). Again, unless you pay very close attention (or that you get unlucky and get one or two flicker on powering it up)… You might never realize that these are CFL.

For CFL or regular incandescent lamp, one should purchase them based on their LUMEN output (not merely on their Watts rating). The performances of incandescent lamp vary widely from product to product. This is also true for CFL.

Take extra care if you are replacing Long Lasting incandescent lamp (EX: 6,000 HRS or 10,000 HRS rated one). A 100 Watts, 10,000 HRS lamp usually deliver about 800 Lumen. A 13 Watts, good quality CFL deliver about 800 Lumen. So, if you purchase a 23 Watts replacement rated at 1400 Lumen or more, you might find it way to bright.
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LED has application where they are very efficient. For example, an EXIT sign, a traffic light (especially the RED one), the tail light of car and truck, etc... In these applications, nothing can come close to the efficiency of LED and they will last a very long time.

Contrary to incandescent lamp that generates light with a fairly wide spectrum starting in the infrared, a LED is an electronic device that produces light at a single frequency. Since a traffic RED light or a Car tail lamp require a single frequency (the RED Color), the efficiency is very high.

LED can also be focuses very precisely. Actually, because of this quality, some LEDs are actually used to create those inexpensive "LASER" pointers.

Because of those two qualities, a RED Traffic Light of 13 watts performs similarly to a regular RED Traffic light powered by a 150 Watts halogen lamp. In an EXIT Sign (Where EXIT is RED), 5 Watts of LED will outperform a 40 watts bulb for at least 9 years out of it regular 10 years life. In those two applications, nothing can approach the efficiency of the LED.

However, the efficiency of a GREEN traffic light is already much less. The green color required at least 2 frequency of light (Yellow and Blue) and these make the manufacturing of them more complex. LED green traffic lights that often seem dimmer than the RED traffic light consume over 20 watts.

Now, LED can’t produce the “white color” directly. To produce the white color, you need a wide spectrum of frequency. So to produce the so call “White LED”, the manufactured use a special trickery that is not likely to help there performances. In fact, White LED emits “ultraviolet light” that is converted to white by a phosphor coating (the exact same phenomenon use by CFL). Because the surface area of LED is limited, the phosphor area is very small compare to CFL… This limit severely the light that might be produce by White LED (at this time anyways).

In 2006, a White LED has efficiency similar to a standard Bulb. For the best one, this is about 19 Lumens per electric watts compare to over 60 lumens per Watts for CFL. These LED does not last nearly as long as others type of LED: 10,000 to 20,000 hrs maximum in the best case under optimal condition. Most ultra bright white LED use in those expansive bulb replacement lamps have a live expectancy varying from a 1000 Hrs to 9000 Hrs. This depends on the lamp manufacturer design criteria as much as where the lamp is installed. LED are electronic devices sensitive to heat and consequently do not last nearly as long when they overheat.

Under normal operation, LED and CFL fail the same way. They get progressively dimmer and dimmer until you want to replace them. Most often, a CFL that fail totally indicate that the Electronic that power it fail (the lamp is still good but the power electronic is dead). This can certainly be explained by poor electric wiring or other electrical anomaly. This can also be explained by a lamp that overheat in a enclosed fixture.

A good rule of thumb: if you can see an incandescent lamp flicker often, don’t replace it by a CFL. Any “flicker” force the power electronic to restart the “CFL starting process”. This is not the standard mode of operation since a cold CFL need much more “electricity” at startup, for a few minutes, until the lamp reach it operating temperature. This result in the electronic that fail more or less rapidly or, in some cases (when you have very high quality electronic), the lamp will develop a stress induced fracture and consequently fail.

Otherwise, most good CFL are resistant to Voltage anomaly that often causes a “regular incandescent light bulb” to fail rapidly. In some area, a high voltage can be seen often at 130 Volt or more (North America). In those cases, a regular light bulb might fail in a few weeks or less (unless you actually purchase special, highly inefficient bulb created for this special situation). As long as there are only a few electrical flickers per day, nothing prevents you from using a CFL in those locations. Under voltage (without flicker) is also well tolerated by some brand of CFL.

How about the mercury!!! Put a few million of these CFL's in a landfill, and plant some food there END OF STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi,

This is similar to the project I am running

www.myspace.com/change_a_bulb

So if you do change a light, drop us a line either there or at

change_a_bulb@hotmail.com

Thanks

I have bought the GE bulbs from Walmart and find that their "instant on" is about a 1.5 sec. off the mark. Greenlight 13W come on instantly, as do MODEL EDXO-14. I've bought a number of them and find they're replaced (thanks to my wife) if they don't turn on instantly, or they need to "warm up" to the optimum output.

CFL for Incandescent dimmers are available from several url's

Google or froogle these 2 words:
cfl dimmable

BTW, I use and have used CFLs quite a bit. The ones from Ikea are very reliable in my experience. I have some that have been going 4-5 years that have been used 8+ hours a day every day. One negative of CFLs you hardly read about but which can have an impact is they output more ultraviolet which can fade certain items including artwork, prints (I have experienced this), wood finishes especially antiques and high end furntiure both of which can use photochemically reactative stains (I have experienced this in as little as 6 months usage) and they can have a negative impact on certain "silk" shades (my parents had this happen).

What about all the Mercury in all those light bulbs? Has nobody thought of that?
If you think they'll "be preperly disposed of" as a hazardous waste, my thinks not. The bulb blows out, throw it in the general garbage, which then goes into the land fill, which then leaches into the water table... They save energy, but what about the down-the-road price. Heavy metal waste.

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editor note: Please have a look at this.

We definitely need to be careful and recycle CFLs, but the mercury problem is not as simple as it appears at first.

There are a lot of bad statistics about the life expectancy of these new bulbs. The only two things you can count on is the extra cost and the reduced output.

I saw a number of comments that seem to blame "bad wiring" for short life expectancy. This is not a practical point of view. For light bulbs (or anything else) to be of use, it must deliver the savings in the real world where most of us live; not in some ideal lab environment that does not reflect real world use. Of course, we can all re-wire our houses at some astronomical cost and start saving those pennies...

I'm going to require some convincing on this.

Carl, if they don't work for you, that's too bad. But CFLs have been working EXTREMELY well for me.

The light is good, they last forever and I've saved lots of electricity (and money) with them.

It's a great concept however flourescent bulbs hurt my eyes. Then tend to water and tear in an environment with heavy flourescent light. I went so far as to unscrew the ones directly above my desk at my last job.

I know I'm not the only one. I have had several coworkers (at least 6) in the past who have done the same thing, siting the same complaints. At my last job many people followed suit when they saw what I had done.

My current office has flourescents but they are much higher up (higher ceilings) and this doesn't seem to bother me my eyes. So it could be a question of proximity. But lightning my entire home with them would probably render me blind quickly as I have mostly floor lamps.

I do use them to give my plants extra light. They are GREAT for that. But when I put them on I'm never in the same room. I am green but I like being able to see more.

Related to the mercury issue: I understand that since a lot of the electricity in the USA is generated by coal fired power plants (which release huge amounts of mecury into the environment), the switch to fluorescent lighting where appropriate and the resulting reduction in electricity use would mean a net decrease in mercury release (even if the bulbs are not recycled- which they should be).

Sorry WalMart - it'll take a lot more than this to get me inside one of your stores.

Flourescent lamps lifespan rating comes through optimal usage. This means leaving a light on for 3 hrs and off for at least 15 min. This is not your typical home usage. Energy is saved by using cfls but not costs. A typical home will never see a cost savings because of the constant turning on and off of lights, which will greatly shorten the life of the light. The poisons used in making cfls will outweigh the benefit in energy savings. I believe led lighting is the way to go.

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editor note: Please have a look at this about mercury in CFLs.

Lowe's is selling dimmable, CFL torchiere-style lamps. They're probably available elsewhere, too.

A good on-line source for compact fluorescents, including dimmable CFLs (and other energy efficient gear) is this not-for-profit site:

www.efi.org/consumer/consumer.html

I've been using these bulbs for a couple years now, and my house is completely converted. And this past Christmas, I got my parents to start using them too. They were surprised when I told them how much money per month they could save.

I'm thinking about switching to CFL's. I have our first one in a living room lamp. Can the people who use mostly CFLs let me know if your energy went down after switching and if so about how much? Thanks

Dimmable fluorescent bulbs are designed to work where the power is poor quality due to sags and low volatge. They will still flicker when the refrigerator or washing machine operates on the same circuit, but they will not be damaged by the drops. Spikes or surges on the other hand of over-voltage can damage or shorten their lives.

It only costs the manufacturer a few cents more per bulb to make a 10 or even 20 thousand hour incandescant bulb versus the very common one or two thousand hour incandescant bulb. The main things that an ultra long life incandescent bulb has that are different, is a filament without weak thin spots and additional support wires. Could there be a conspiracy between the manufacturers and retailers to keep making short lived bulbs, and the government taxing the sales? Possibly. The consumer does not demand the 20,000 hour incandescant bulbs and that is the real reason that they are not commonly available except by special order. They are not that much more expensive and have been around for decades. I think that long life will not count for very much in the mass market for CFLs, since it has not mattered so far with the incandescants. Just about any CFL has better color rendering than an incandescent. People are just used to the artificial look of incandescent light, and do not really care about color fidelity.

It costs the user more to recycle a fluorescent tube than it does to buy the bulb new, so that is why only about .2% are being recycled. Even fewer cfls than that get recycled. Something should be done about that.

I just bought my first CFL's (GE made in China) and the base is slightly larger than an incondescent bulb. They will not fit in many of my light fixtures (recessed lights). Do I need to buy another type for recessed lights?

The GE bulbs have larger bases that other manufacturers. The smallest R40 base that I am aware of is made by TCP. I am in the lighting business and was given GE bulbs to put in a house we built - what I found was that the color temperature was a bit to high - which caused my yellow walls to look green, and the glue which held the glass reflector failed and started falling out of the ceiling!

TCP also private labels bulbs for Home Depot under the n:vison or Commercial Electric brand which are good choices for home use.

If you can not find the right shape CFL or you are looking for more speciality bulbs for energy savings, you might want to check out what we have to offer - here is a link that has a savings calculator that might be helpful in determining if it is worth it to make the CFL investment.

http://www.soslightbulbs.com/shop/customer/pages.php?pageid=77

I hope this is benefical to the conversation.

I'm pasting a previous post @ end of mine because I feel the adverse health effects of flourescent lights are an unstudied problem in the USA. Like the (below) poster, I also suffer from eye problems after only 15-20 minutes exposure to flourescent light. Worse, the lights trigger migraine headaches which I never get at any other time, and these typically last 12-15 hours. If I am forced to remain under flourescent lights for more than 1 hour, I go almost completely blind. I wear a hat whenever I shop or have to visit a hospital or government or office building, and had to drop out of the corporate workforce decades ago.
Does anyone else have headaches, eye problems, skin problems or other adverse symptoms from flourescent lights? Does anyone know why these symptoms occur?
Before America makes the great switch, we should find out the long term health effects.
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(posted by Shearer on this site 1/4/07):
It's a great concept however flourescent bulbs hurt my eyes. Then tend to water and tear in an environment with heavy flourescent light. I went so far as to unscrew the ones directly above my desk at my last job.

I know I'm not the only one. I have had several coworkers (at least 6) in the past who have done the same thing, siting the same complaints. At my last job many people followed suit when they saw what I had done.

My current office has flourescents but they are much higher up (higher ceilings) and this doesn't seem to bother me my eyes. So it could be a question of proximity. But lightning my entire home with them would probably render me blind quickly as I have mostly floor lamps.

I do use them to give my plants extra light. They are GREAT for that. But when I put them on I'm never in the same room. I am green but I like being able to see more.
January 4, 2007 10:11 AM

Sorry, R. Shearson (not Shearer) was the poster I quoted in my previous comment.

Hi guys,

Has anyone bought from this site? They have screw bulbs and even MR16 bulbs. They have a good power comparison of LED light bulbs compared to incandescent bulbs and they're not insanely expensive unlike other places.

Anyone tried LED lighting in general?

http://www.eternaleds.com/our-online-shop/track-lighting_1/hjdr-jdr_22.html

I've skimmed though some stuff. ANd the scepticism is really ridiculous, as well as the notions against Walmart. There are other places to buy lights.

The fact of the matter is that the mercury hazard in CFL’s is not insignificant as people claim….please refer to following article regarding cases where they broke in people’s homes and their consequences.

http://pods.zaadz.com/elders_of_seven_tribes/discussions/view/135321

Light bulbs account for roughly 1.5% of most cities electricity consumption, CFLs reduce that by 75%, thus using them would decrease electricity consumption (and coal burning) by roughly 1.125%. The net decrease in mercury emission in comparison to coal burning, assumes adequate disposal of CFLs. Given that it would take roughly 5 years of planning for cities to ensure adequate disposal of CFLs (presuming motivation) …it is absurd to believe that benefits gained would outweigh the costs. Do people truly believe that Wall-Mart is concerned about the environment? They are just trying to abuse new public concern for their own profit.

Walmart sure is expanding its stores. They are becoming bigger and bigger overseas too.

CTL's have been part of my household since I bought it in 1999. I use them in every spot in the house from Bathrooms to under kitchen cabinets.

only 3 bulbs in the entire house are not CTL's the Oven, The Refrigerator, The Freezer.

I have changed a total of 6 lamps in that time frame. 4 died after we had a nasty lightning strike
near the home. So 2 I leave to Lights of America poor Quality control. With over 60 lamps in the house the up front costs were High in 1999 there were no 80 cent compacts but what I have saved in electric over these years has allowed me to buy other things I desire more than replaceing Incadescent lamps. Just the reduction in the Cooling bill in the summer months makes it all worth while.

God Bless all that take the plunge and change over the cost might be higher up front but you will save so much more in the end. I am not a Tree hugger either but it is a nice side benefit.

Please consider that fluorescents have negative health effects! The Job Accommodation Network lists many conditions that have symptoms that are aggravated by fluorescents. Among them are migraine, epilepsy, lupus, cardiovascular disease, ms, chronic fatigue syndrome, and aids. Warnings on light therapy boxes (fluorescents to sit close to) include nervousness, nausea, sleep problems and manic episodes. They are known to cause headache, eyestrain and fatigue in healthy individuals as well. There are other options for lighting becoming more efficient besides brain assault lighting!

Personally, I have low level seizure activity after only limited exposure (minutes not hours) In the 10 years have been asking for ADA accommodation, I have found that 10 to 20% of the people I talk to about hem have a symptom list of their own.

Y ARE U GUYS FALLIN FOR THIS
walmart is not tht good, they just use fake ads, ad low prices to get you to shop there

there is no point in shoppin there

I wish the big box stroes would offer more Color temperatures, to include full spectrum 5000K. Also dimmable. Can buy online, but are expensive.

I wrote ebooks on lighting as I owned a lighting consulting business.
So while patting myself on the back I'll say I know a little about this current discussion.

Compact Fluorescents (CFLs), if used correctly, will give the following benefits:
- lower power consumption
- less heat
- better visible light (may not seem this but indeed it does). *See Light Quality Notes
- better stimulates and grows houseplants (more indoor plants = better indoor air quality)

Technology Explained:
Complact Fluorescent bulbs have small electronic ballasts built into their bases. These are electrical circuits (engines) required to run the bulb properly. These ballasts are not that robust - because they need to remain low cost - and require a little more TLC than Incandescent. Much of the care has already been mentioned. But I"ll say it again for those who missed it.
- don't put in fixtures that are freqently turned off and on
- don't put in enclosed or sealed fixtures thay may not be able to vent heat
- don't put non-dimming CFLs on dimmable switches.

"Then where do I put them?" you ask?
- Lamp fixtures
- Outdoor security lighting
- Desk lamps
Frankly, use anywhere you may leave a light on for long periods of time.

*Light Quality Notes
CFLs come in all the colors of the rainbow but are mostly sold in four general color schemes:
- Warm/Soft White
Light that tends toward the red and orange shads...much like incandescents. Most new users will prefer this as it looks more like what they're used to.
- Neutral/White
Dull white light blended with some warm tones such as yellow and orange. Simlar to natural light in the late afternoon.
- Cool White
Crisp white light with less warm tones.
- Ultra Daylight
Brilliant blue/white light with neglibable warm tones. Designed to mimic bright, natural daylight.

The cooler or "whiter" the light, generally the better quality light it produces - and the better for your eyes and health. But most new users will not like it because even the best halogen lights don't get as blue/white....so the daylight bulbs may seem too unnatural at first. Try warm lights first and work your way up.

Lastly, comments about bulb "flicker", "buzzing" or people having some reaction to them such as "seizers" simply myths at this point. Modern CFLs do not have any of these issues due to new electronics design (or so we hope).

I am a hardware department manager at Wa-Mart and for those who haven't heard I am pleased to announce that Wal-Mart reached it's goal of 100 million CFLs in a year two months early! I use CFLs myself and have a little information to share.

First, I noticed that many people seem concerned about the mercury and not knowing where to recycle the bulbs. Through the combined efforts of Wal-Mart and Effeciency Maine, all residents of the state of Maine can walk into any Wal-Mart and drop off their burnt out/intact CFL bulbs at the service desk free of charge. It does not matter where or when the bulbs were bought. The bulbs are sent out and all of the materials in them are all recaptured and reused. This includes the mercury, phosphorous, glass, metal, and plastic. I have heard rumers within the company that Wal-Mart wants to expand this program natione wide and is exploring its options.

There are now Dimmable CFL bulbs as well as 3-way CFL bulbs at most Wal-Marts. There are also many other shapes and sizes.

When Wal-Mart first started selling CFL's they were a substandard (by today's technology) brand known as "Lights of America." I tried one of these in my bedside lamp back when they first came out. They flickered, buzzed, and sometimes had to be tapped lightly before they would come on at all. I was not impressed by these lights and they had the pleasure of taking part in my town's next hazadrous waste pick up day.

The 36 CFLs that are currently installed in my house were all bought at Wal-Mart, are made by GE and have lasted three years so far. My wife and I have never experienced any adverse effects from the lighting, but we do enjoy our $35.00 per month electricity bill.

As a sidenote, I have worked at Wal-Mart for five years and I know that they get a lot of bad press. However, from my first hand experiences anyway, I can't figure out why. The people at my store are like a family, if one of us (or even a family member of an associate) gets hurt or is in trouble, we all team up to make sure that person is taken care of. I have great health coverage, a 401k to which WM contributes, and stock options. When, for about a year, my wife was making next to nothing in a "volunteer" position outside of Wal-Mart, we were able to live completely off of what I was making at Wal-Mart and the little she made went into savings At that point I was only a floor associate. All this is just to say if you have heard bad things about Wal-Mart you should ask a Wal-Mart associate, the company saves people money and isn't nearly as bad as it is made out to be.

Why are we spending so much effort replacing light bulbs when our 150 watt computers are running full steam ahead for hours on end? We're talking about saving 37 watts of electricity (23 watt CFL = 60 watt regular). You would have to run a CFL bulb non-stop for 27 hours to save 1 kilowatt hour. One kilowatt hour (delivered) costs around 10 cents. If you were a business that was opened 24/7, you would save a whopping 65 cents per bulb per week.

------First of all its not just the energy the bulb itself CONSUMES. You have to take into consideration the amount of heat a regular bulb puts out and the amount of cooling you use to fight it. Thats where the savings come into affect as well. And a 60 watt equivelant CFL is around 14 watts now anyway so your caclulations are way off. And if I could save 65 cents a week on a few bulbs in my house I think thats pretty darn good anyway, plus the savings on cooling.-----

It will take the average home user 6 months to one year of daily use to merely repay the premium of these CFL bulbs. Why not focus on our energy hungry computers, our heated dishwashers, our electric clothes dryers, and our kilowatt thirsty air conditioners before worrying about saving a few dozen watts?

------If you live in climates that drying clothes are good all year long I guess you could save on drying. Do you wash your dishes with cold water? Do you run a house full of computers? Have you replaced your central air with the most energy effecient system to save money?----

----I use them and replace them as needed or on the lights I use the most. I have found that I have not had to replace one bad CFL since I started using them 3 years ago so the time saved on that alone makes it worth it to me. Also to all the people complaining about the mercury content it es EXTREMELY low anyway and if people take them to recycling there is no issue. I sure hope all of you people have upgraded your 10-30 year old central air units if your so die hard on saving money as well. New units are up to 50% more energy effecient.-----

CFLs are great- but did you know they contain mercury? They cannot just be thrown away into the trash, or we will have a serious mercury poisoning issue in our water tables. If Walmart is going to sell that many CFLs, are they finally going to start collecting used ones? It hasn't been an issue, because they last for years. But it's about time to start thinking about it. During a power outage recently a faulty generator blew out one of our bulbs, and I've just been sitting on it waiting for a way to dispose of it.

There is a new recycling program for CFLs, but it's not totally reasonably priced. A box that will hold 12 bulbs is $15 (for both the certified box for mailing mercury and the postage). Why is it not free? How many people will not bother and just toss them?

I believe we need to start pressuring the major stores to collect them once they are done being used. This is a serious, serious problem with these bulbs being widespread and as of now is not acceptably resolved.

Now if we could only ween ourselves off buying billions of pounds of goods maunufactured in pollution belching Chinese factories. shipped to Wal Mart by pollution belching ships and trucks. Sold in "brown out" causing, Super polluting, Mega buildings, using hundreds of times more resources, and energy than necessary. Lightbulbs? Hello!

cfl's are good but i personally prefer led bulbs. my problem with cfl's is the mercury in them. now at the rate they are being sold and with odds that a majority of them will not be disposed of properly, i'm scared of an impending mercury crisis. they need to be recycled and people are not properly educated and do not always have access to appropriate facilities for disposing of them properly.

I hate this spiel about CFLs still having mercury in them which THEY DO NOT anymore. Most of those that still contain them are either A. horrid horrid Wal-mart level cheap or B. from their early manufacturing days. People still should recycle ALL light bulbs but this mercury nonsense drives me nutso! If you're still not convinced about them having it, go talk to your local electrician's union hall and get it first hand.

Walmart has Led Bulbs

Screw CFL... They waste too much energy.
Compare the following & see what saves the most energy.

Incandescent 60 w / CFL 13 w / LED 1.3 w
CFL = 75% less than incandescent
LED = 90% less than CFL

LED last 60,000 hours. It takes 50 years of LED to = 1 year of incandescent. It takes 4 years of CFL to = 1 year of incandescent, & you still have the mercury hazards.

LED are cleaner, smaller, brighter, last longer, might be more expensive initially but save $$$ in the long run.

Some LED bulbs equalling 100w, but operating on 1.3 only cost $1.17 a year.

LED are the new champs. Move over CFL.

It takes 50 LED bulbs to = 1 incandescent, and 10 LED bulbs to = 1 CFL in energy waste.

Imagine that? One CFL wastes as much energy as TEN LED...

First step- Stop selling _all_ incandescent lightbulbs.
I agree that ideal !