The Tipping Point for Geothermal Heating and Cooling?

Some people are ignorant of the technolog some don't like the inital price barrier. It costs a lot to install.

Geothermal is one of my favorite techs. If I ever buy a house, I definitely want one.

It's relatively expensive if you pay for it all at once, but if you fold it into a mortgage or get a special kind of financing (some orgs, banks and governments have started doing this) that keeps your utility bills at pre-geothermal levels until you pay back for the system, it can be easy to recoup the investment and then enjoy big savings while reducing your ecological footprint.

It is great to have a post about this technology.

But the terminology may be a bit outdated.

People in the industry now tend to all this technology “Geo-exchange” or “Ground Source Heat Pumps” to avoid confusion with “Geothermal Power” which refers to technologies that extract power from underground heat sources (with temperatures above average ground temperature).

Dr. Rob Socolow of Princeton has written extensively about how no new technologies are needed to solve the CO2 problem in the next 50 years. Today's existing, proven, deployed and commercially viable technologies can do all the work with little to no R&D.

Google "socolow" and "wedges" for a copy of the paper he submitted to the Exeter Conference on Avoiding Dangerous Climate Change.

A focusing on solutions is indeed the way to jumpstart through the tipping point. We have most of the technology we need in order to make a transition to a renewable, restorative, sustainable society.

Yes, the initial financing is one problem and yes, people don't yet understand a smaller energy budget doesn't necessarily mean a lower quality life.

There are many things we can do individually and collectively that are affordable, available and require no sacrifice. All we have to do is recognize those opportunities.

I say Solar Is Civil Defense and start from there through public demos of solar and energy efficient devices at such local events as farmers markets to do it yourself video on TV or youtube.

Even starting now (8/8/06), if we made a concerted effort, we could have a significant impact on energy and politics before the first snow falls.

A quick note on the geo-exchange vs geothermal: there's actually a more advanced form of geo-exchange/geothermal called Underground Thermal Energy Storage (UTES) that pushes the envelope of what the earth can do for you thermally. I'm currently part of a build of four townhouses in Halifax, Nova Scotia that are installing a UTES system that will gather summer heat from the "waste heat" (McDonough's Waste Equals Food concept) from building airconditioning and cooling and Pump it underground, storing it until the cold winter months. Normal ground temp is between 10-11 Cel (50-55 F). Using the UTES system we'll be bringing the deep earth temp up to 20-22 Cel (80 F) and using that for our winter heat load. Geothermal/geoexchange has evolved to very advanced UTES systems.

I have recently built a house and had considered geothermal to provide heating. However I am also considering erecting a small 2.5 KW wind turbine and I'm afraid most heat pumps start at around 5KW. The cost of electricity negates the effectiveness of Geo thermal for me. I am instead installing a wood pellet boiler for heating purposes subsidised with Solar panels.

Ok so I just did the pricing as I am building a house for myself ( I am my own contractor and I also happen to be an Architect and Landscape Architect) the real price to for a system for a 3,000 sf two storey home in Whistler ,British Columbia is a lot more than I or anybody else I talked to expected.

The geothermal system with forced air furnace / heat pump ( 2 zone ) and tin bashing included ( a horizontal loop set 8' below grade) was going to be $78,000.00 Plus excavation ( About $10,000.00) for a total of $88,000.00 +/_.( CAN $) A vertical drilled loop would be about $15,000.00 more

An electric furnace for the same house forced air system was $8,000.00 Add Another $4,000.00 for extra filters and air conditioning. Guess which one I've chosen???? I'm pretty good at math and I'd say the pay back is just not there for along time. I've decided to include Photovaltaic's on the roof with the cost savings to balance out my treehugger tendencies.

Just so you know that its not a one off deal I had three prices and this was the average price.

The building company my mom works for have put them in for around $20,000 like the original post mentioned.

Now why do forced air? My not do radiant heating and cooling? Especially in new contruction.

Hi JiltedCitizen,

Do you know what the pros & cons of forced air vs. radiant are?

I like the elegance of a radiant design, but I've always kind of assumed that forced air could help improve air quality by helping it circulate better and filtering it. How is that addressed with a radiant design?

NO idea really. I was never concerned about air quality. But forced air does not help this, that I'm certian. If take a look in an air duct some day and you'll see why. It's filled with dust and dirt unless you clean it of course. Filters breed bateria too.

Now for radiant I think it is more efficient because it cool/heats everywhere, not just at the vent. It costs more though. And is really only suited to new construction or total remodels. And it seems if you go geothermal you wouldn't need a heat exchanger.

A few comments on this thread...

1. Forced air and radiant systems... radiant systems cost a little more to install but give a nice even heat, and are well suited to geothermal systems because they offer a good amount of surface area (geothermal systems give off lower heat than fossil fuel furnaces). If you're interested using your geothermal system for air conditioning, you'll need forced air also because you'll need to remove moisture from the air (You don't want condensation on or under your floors!).

2. System installations for a single family home cost much closer to $20K than $100K, even with vertical bore holes.

3. The UTES systems mentioned by Doug are probably not a good option for single family homes due to their high cost. A good example of one currently in place is the new headquarters of Scandinavian Airlines (SAS) in Sweden. It will be interesting to see how these systems perform.

4. The three key advantages of geothermal heating and cooling systems is their longevity (the wells should last at least 50 years), their green-friendly efficiency, and their lack of necessary maintenance (about as often as you need a refrigerator repairman). They also don't make that annoying loud noise made by those outdoor central air units.

Hey JiltedCitizen, I think I found the answer to my question. In case you ever become concerned about indoor air quality, or if others are reading this:

Heat Recovery Ventilators!

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/residential/personal/new-homes/r-2000/standard/how-hrv-works.cfm?attr=4

Found it via a Rocky Mountain Institute page about indoor air quality and superinsulated houses.

Basically, you get fresh air from outside and heat or cool it with the stale air that you are puting out. So you change the air without losing your heat/cool. Very cool.

The choice between radiant and forced air is simple, cost. You still need to have a make up air system if you have radiant floor system. The systems sometimes don't provide great quality when you have a wood floor over the whole areas as well. ( ie wood is not a good conducter for heat and therefore the extra cost doesn't necessarilyequate to a high quality comfort control. also other factors such as a low need for air conditioning ( I live in the mountain right next to a stream and the passive cooler / heating design elements of the house play havic with a radiant system. ie radiant system can't respond quickly to changes in the home where as a forced system can adapt faster to changes theough out the day. Like the radiant systems but its part of a balancing act in the overall home. I also like to try and create a home using a low tech natural systems approach ie think how to resolve the design of the home using passive systems aproach and not rely on technology ( ie opening windows, x- ventilation and reduce need for an airconditioning unit and added mechanical support)

I think some people out there are missing a very important point on Geo Thermal heating systems. The source of heating may be free, but the power needed to extract that heat from source is certainly not. A 14 KW heat pump draws a lot of power, and the cost of power is directly related to the cost of oil. The cost of oil is rising and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. I rest my case!.

I just finished my house and had installed a closed loop GeoExchange unit. The cost was $12,000 more then the conventional HVAC units. The energy savings will be appx. $175 per month at a cost to me of about $75 per month. Also you have to take into account the longevity of the utit. On a new build it seems like a "no brainer". Also, on an existing fossil fuel unit there are 0 intrest loans available

I just priced a single-family residential forced-air HVAC system. CA cnventional heat pump cost $11K and a GeoExchange based system was $30K including drilling.
This is probibitively expensive, especially in Calif where we don't have as many hot and cold days. Also, Calif govt gives zero credit for these systems' energy efficiciency, so the above numbers are final.
Does anyone know a way around this problem?

Is it possible to use heat pumps to cool the ground in a ski slope to extend the season (autumn and spring) for a ski resort?
In other words, to avoid melting of the snow by cooling the ground under the snow.

Geiger-Air conditioning includes both thecooling and heating of air.
It also cleans the air and controls themoisture level.
Air Conditioning Contractors Directory for Cincinnati,
Prescreened Home Improvement Professionals for Cincinnati.
gogeiger

I currently work for a certified Geothermal gentlemen and we put these systems in quite frequently. If you are interested in a quote and if we fly to where ever you live, we would possible be able to save you some money especially if two or more people from the same state would be putting in the system. Thanks Dan from Cecil Trucking Cecil WI 54111

Hola,

Does anyone know of any other ground source or high efficiency heat pumps (looking for cooling and heating) that don't require the excessive start up costs of geothermal and also offer hot water?

Jerbo