Electric Mini: 0-60 in 4 Seconds: It Has Motors In Its Wheels

So let me make sure. This is not a production vehicle?

Finally, someone (although not a major auto manufacturer) makes a real hybrid!

I've read that Mitsubishi was working on this same type of set up, but of course it was in "development". Unfortunatley with large auto manufacturers, things like this always seem to be in "development" with the consumer never seeing anything actually put into production!

When can I get one!!!

Now we're talkin'. A EV/hybrid with high performance and the cool looks of the MINI!

I would hope that they will add a parking/emergency brake to it. Note the wheel chocks in the picture of the prototype.

Oh, hey everyone look, candy! You want the candy dont you; you need the candy? Come get the candy, yeah...

Oh I just remembered. We're not going to make the candy so get lost.

Damn and how much would that cost? Motors in the tires are the way to go. What if they replaced the ICE and put more batterys and capacitors there, what would be the range then?

Cool.

But 'up to 80 mpg'? In a small car?

Is that it? There are cars on sale in Europe which currently do around 70 mpg.

It must be the, to quote TH above, 'four 160 horsepower electric motors on each wheel'. Maybe one per wheel would do.

"with four 160 horsepower electric motors on each wheel."

are there really 4 motors on each wheel or one motor on each wheel for a total of 4?

Motors in tires certainly have many benefits, but the downside is that they are a lot more exposed to shocks. I wonder if that's a big problem or if it's possible to make motors that are resistant enough for all but the most extreme off-road conditions.

Beautifull!!!

To lower cost, you only need 40miles of all-electric range.

It should be posible but what about the salt used on winter roads, I didn't think of that before.

Would it be posible to have 2 motors each driving a pair of wheels through 1/2 shafts like FWD and AWD vehicles use. The packaging should work ok as the front motor would still be much smaller than the ICE drivetrain and the rear motor would be an underfloor unit where a rear diff would fit in a AWD vehicle.

How much does this cost? $250,000?

To quote PML's website:

"Motors
4 x 750Nm 1800rpm high efficiency Brushless permanent magnet sine wave Hi-Pa drive™ 24 phase water-cooled"

i.e. One motor per wheel.

This is AWESOME. The most amazing part about this whole thing is that it was built with entirely production parts.

This means you can build your own tesla roadster tomorrow, if you had the money and the drive.

This is a HUGE leap forward for electric vehicles.

They've also done it RIGHT. My problem with most electric vehicles today is that they still follow the standard ICE design:

Stick a big ole powerplant in the vehicle, and use lots of gearing, driveshafts, diff's, etc to reduce the power to the wheels through distribution.

They did it the way electrical vehicles should be done, and stick the motor at each wheel. The only thing you need to worry about distributing is the electrons, a much less lossy proposition than distributing torque.

This is *THE* perfect southern california car. Clean, long range, and more importantly FUN.

For my daily commute the ICE wouldn't even bother turning on, and I would plug it in when I get home. But for those weekend, long drives, I still get a huge range *AND* I'm being green and clean. Here's a hybrid that finally makes sense.

Eventually, in vehicles like these you will be able to replace the ICE with a more clean way to generate the electricity like fuel cells, or cleaner ICE's like ethanol engines, CNG, or biodiesel.

The point of a prototype is to demonstrate technology and operating feasibility, not to control cost. If all the non-traditional components are "off the shelf", bulk purchases would immediately lower cost of goods. The heart will be the custom computerized controllers. Probably took thousands of coder hours to make them work and thousands more remain to tweak to perfection. That's where the patents will lie as well.

Prototypes like this often never make it to market because the projected profit margins and gross profits are below corporate expectations. However, with inefficient vehicle sales plummeting, perhaps the inventors will be lucky enough to find a niche in a major maker.

ARRRG!!! First Mitsubishi now these guys are using my idea for the hybrid propulsion system used in my thesis car design years ago. It was designed as a performance electric car with intelligent in-wheel motors that eliminated the need for a complicated and heavy transmission and standard car layout. It also used a small ICE to recharge the battery while parked or running and it didn't directly drive the wheels. I never had the $ to build it, but I guess I should feel validated that my ideas were sound...

Catablade hybrid sports car:
http://www.phrancis.com/thesis/CataHome.html
CG video commercial:
http://www.phrancis.com/CataVidPlayer.html

This mini cooper has the one thing that the tesla roadster is missing. A small ICE with generator for extended driving.

as a MINI Cooper S owner, I have a few Q's:
1. Which edition of the new MINI is this? there was a special edition released recently which is more aerodynamic,, and has carbon fiber body. The 2007 edition is over 2 inches longer.

2. Do we still need heavy energy hungry emmissions controls?

3. An important handling quality of the usual MINI is that the heavy engine block is just behind the front wheel base. Did the center of mass change noticeably?

4. How about a thin-film colar roof to help charge the batteries?

5. What can we the consumer expect to really see from either PML or MINI?

-sam

It's a technology demo for the motors and controllers -- not a production vehicle. To answer Tim's question, there's a cable-linked band break in both real wheel motors. The chocks are probably just for safety.

there is such a clammor, i cannot believe these companies are not coming up with the goods...
i think F,GM need to fall by the wayside like the slow dumb dinosaurs they are and let some new blood get into the new game that has developed. i hope this little company cleans their clocks.

Put HOnda and Toyota in that bag as well.

I have always *hated* the mini, personally... however a mini like THIS one... even I would buy. Very nice indeed.

That is a current model MINI body (the 07 doesn't lift the headlights with the bonnet).
I have an 03 MINI Cooper S and this sounds EXTREMELY interesting. I like the Tesla concept, but living in Las Vegas makes the 250 mile range useless for anything other than in town driving. This gives a usable range for distance driving, what looks like better acceleration than my current MCS and monster MPG numbers.
Where do I sign up? How much extra does it cost over the standard MINI?

Wow. Want want shiny car. Of course I want it in a car that's not a "premium compact" or whatever they call the MiniBeemer.

My concern with this sort of vehicle is heating/defogging in winter. I live in Ottawa, ON, in Canada, where winter temperatures stay below freezing for months at a time. Most vehicles produce enough waste heat from ICE to warm the occupants, but getting heat from batteries is *expensive*.

Don't do that... We will loose the need to go to war with the middle east to get more oil...

No seriously, hydro Quebec in Canada did this in 1995. http://tinyurl.com/h8q9f

Do you have the feeling that somehow the industry does not want to get there... Loose money and control...

Sorry, but they are lying on their specs. They claim four 160 HP electric motors. Each horsepower equals 746 watts. They are claiming 4 x 160 x 746 = 477,440 watts of power. Gee that is half a megawatt, which would melt a wire thinner than your wrist. The real power is considerably less, and they should stop misleading people with bogus "peak" power claims which can't possibly ever be achieved.

Correction, what you ment to say was 1 HP = 746 Watts

Formula is still correct.

4 x 160 x 746 = 477,440 watts of power

Thats enough power to light up a small town

"BMW (UK) Ltd has requested that we mention they have no involvement with this project and that such conversions invalidate warranty!"

Isn't that typical ?

"My concern with this sort of vehicle is heating/defogging in winter. I live in Ottawa, ON, in Canada, where winter temperatures stay below freezing for months at a time. Most vehicles produce enough waste heat from ICE to warm the occupants, but getting heat from batteries is *expensive*."

That's a good point. Less energy wasted equals less waste heat, in this case.

The battery pack should produce some heat that can be diverted and supplements by electrical heat during operation in the winter, but from a cold start, it could be problematic. Maybe if such electrical vehicles become popular enough, there will be many electrical outlets near parking spots. Or maybe a small ICE (running on biodiesel, ideallly) could be used to generate the electricity to warm the car and then shut down.

Either way, it would still be much more efficient than what we're doing now.

Another cool mod:

Motorcycle Engine in smart Car.

Unsprung weight is bad.

personally, i'm not all that concerned about how much wattage it generates. i agree that it's silly to exaggerate the numbers to such an extent, but they mean nothing to me. what i'm more concerned about are the performance specs.

how reliable are the assertions that it will do 0-60 in 4.5 seconds? or that it has a top speed of 150 mph with a range of 932 miles and 80 mpg on ICE?

Regarding the comment about "160hp" beeing unreasonable. "hp" units are likely used for car-geek audience not accustomed to the only proper way to describe electric motor power: torque. One of the previous posters gave the most important number, each of 4 motors has 750Nm torque.
On another issue: this is not really a hybrid. This is electric powered car with small gasoline electric generator to recharge the electric system. This engine never powers the car through shafts or such...
I hope they make production model (even much less power will do).

Or you could use TEC's or small butane heaters.

Lil' Hugger,

The reason that hybrids usually use the direct drive from the piston engine (at least in part) is because you loose energy (make heat) when you convert from one form to another.

Example with 90% efficiency:
Engine -> 90% generator -> 75% of that actually stored in the battery -> 90% of what's left over to the electric motor.

yields: 0.90^3 * 0.75 = 0.54 = 54% => 46% loss in the drivetrain. My numbers are back-of-the-napkin, so let's say my accumulated fudge-factors and other innacuracies may add up to about 20%

Not trivial. I don't have any efficiency statistics for a transmission, but it seems like a well designed gearbox has a good change of not-destroying 26% (giving the benefit of the doubt to the numbers i made up above) of the energy that goes through it. Sure a CVT is an odd piece of hardware, but, given the way that they're used, they must be better than eating up more than a quarter of the energy provided by the engine. After all, a series-hybrid appears to be easier to build -- much easier to build than a transmission that my father (who spent his youth hotroding cars) thought was impossible (and I though was impractical, due to materials).

Note that these numbers are /after/ the efficiency of the engine, which theoretically could turn 60% of the heat generated into spinning (though it's probably quite a bit lower than that.

I'll let real engineers fill in the numbers and correct anything that I have omitted -- but my argument is right out of the first chapter of a thermodynamics textbook -- which is pretty solid stuff (more solid than my supposition about belt/chain materials for the CVT).

Finally good hybrids are getting developed but by the time they get released and then I can actually afford to own one is way too far away. This looks really cool but I can't imagine what the price tag will be. If it wasn't hybrid and wasn't from BMW, say maybe a ford or chevy I bet this would cost maybe $12,000 standard.

If you make the ICE "Flex Fuel" capable (running on one or more of the following: Biodiesel, Methanol, Ethanol, CNG), you've got the OPEC problem pretty much licked.

I believe congratulations are in order for companies like PML and Telsa Motors.

How much? I'll take it!

Awesomeness. Now put one of these into the chassis of a classic Mini and I'm completely sold.
Even better, make a biodiesel edition for ultra greeness and long lasting power.

Although this is a great idea, and I applaud the concept, I can't help but think this design would utterly ruin the handling characteristics of the MINI. For small cars like the MINI, unsprung weight is the enemy. You want your tire/wheel combo to weigh as little as possible. I suspect these motors weigh at least 20 pounds each, if not more. Granted, the thing is fast in a straight line, but I bet it would be a pig in the twisties.

"Unsprung weight is bad."

Yup that's why in my second post I wondered why not have a front and rear or just a front motor using 1/2 shafts like FWD vehicles use. You could retain the disk brakes just have it so that they don't engage unless the person gets heavy into the pedal so regen works first.

I lived in Ottawa, ON for 6 years and O'Bunny has a very good point. Ottawa has long cold winters and I wonder about the range of an EV and how much you would lose to heating. I read last week that the cold weather range of the GM EV with the cold sapping the batteries and running the heater/defroster could be as low as 12 miles. That's why they only leased them in warm weather states.
For heating if you had a small ICE for battery recharge you could use a heater that burns a small amount of the fuel and engine waste heat. If you could plug it in an electric heater would bring things up to temp.

I like the concept of having the small ICE for battery recharge. I live in Chicagoland and have had winter storm commutes that have lasted over 3 hours. Having a 50 mile round trip commute is bad enough and would love to have an EV but it needs enough range or a backup generator to make sure the batteries don't leave me stranded. I love the cars specs above, decent power, AWD and more than enough electric range that normally the ICE wouldn't need to run but as long as you have fuel your not limited by battery range alone.

Some of you "it's just a demo, it'll never happen" types need to remember that without a plausible demo you'd never get a production model. Cars aren't iPods -- the parts are huge, they require tight controls and thus they're expensive unless they are mass produced. There just aren't factories making batteries big enough, or cheap enough, to make this type of car.

Yet. Showing tech demos will encourage automakers to try their own tech demos. This will create demand for factories that make electric parts. It may even encourage certain entrepeneurs to strike out on their own. AC Propulsion's tzero inspired the soon-to-be-production Tesla roadster. If this inspires BMW -- or more likely, Toyota -- to make a small hybrid with braking motors, it's a very good thing.

Oh, and the cool thing about charging a car with a gas generator? When gas gets too expensive, you can replace the generator with something better...say, more batteries or fuel cells? Couple of squirrels on treadmills, or gas-generating bacteria on a pile of biomass for you vegan types?

"I read last week that the cold weather range of the GM EV with the cold sapping the batteries and running the heater/defroster could be as low as 12 miles. That's why they only leased them in warm weather states."

I've only seen the 12 miles claim twice, and both times were in comments here. I'd be curious to know if anyone can find a source for it.

As for the Mini vs EV1, I'm curious to know if different kinds of batteries react to cold weather differently. The EV1 had lead-acid, the Mini has lithium-polymer and ultracapacitors.

Also, wouldn't it be possible to use the ICE gasoline generator either to compensate for the loss, or to heat the battery pack? It would make the car less efficient, but then, regular gasoline cars are also a lot less efficient in cold weather (lots of people from Ottawa here - I'm 15 minutes from there).

"On another issue: this is not really a hybrid. This is electric powered car with small gasoline electric generator to recharge the electric system. This engine never powers the car through shafts or such..."

Well sure it's a hybrid. Does the official definition say that both the electric motor and ICE have to directly power the wheels? Electric propulsion is so much easier to work with and if recharged by an ICE tuned to run very efficiently at a specific RPM then you have a much better version of a hybrid. Thats the conclusion I came to in my thesis car design research: http://phrancis.com/thesis/CataHome.html

Hybrid car designers keep thinking of the same old conventional car design and just adding electric motors and batteries.

MGR I read the 12 mile range claim last week elsewhere but I can't remember the source. That was with the lead acid batteries. I can tell you lead acid batteries in an Ottawa winter night don't like to turn over a car so I can see there is probably some truth to it. Then you run the heater taking even more juice...

Anyway battery tech has come along way from lead acid so future EV's will not have these problems.

Very interesting ...

I don't know when we'll see it on DVD, but a few weeks ago there was an art movie out called "Who Killed the Electric Car" which was a documentary study on GM's EV1 car.

Among other things, they cited the fact that there are still a trillion gallons of oil estimated to be in the earth, that's $100 trillion dollars to be made by big oil. Electric cars also don't need oil changes, filters, or many other common replaceable parts. They interviewed a mechanic at GM that said all he ever did on the EV1s was rotate the tires and fill the washer fluid. But he showed a table of all the parts they replace in gas cars.

California had an energy board that passed a plan to require a growing percentage of cars to be electric powered each year. The car companies initially rolled out a few models but then started to fight it. They sued california and got the regulations put on hold. Then they were sued by the federal government on behalf of the car companies and it was done away with completely.

The current administration is very linked with oil... not only Busy, but Cheny, and Rice worked for Chevron, and it seems like a couple others came from big oil too.

Carter put solar panels on the white house in an effort to encourage better energy use... and Reagan took them down.

They also said that Hydrogen is just to keep us distracted, that it takes more electricy to produce and use hydrogen than it would be to use the electricity directly. That we have an existing electrical infrastructure. It's really the ideal solution, but it would be bad for many businesses so it's being blocked at every turn.

GM literally reclaimed all the EV1s and destroyed them. They would not allow people to buy them or release them. They would give no explanation for why. A group protested outside a GM lot where they held 75 of the cars for over a month, offering to buy the cars, and finally GM brought in trucks and police and took the cars away.

Quite the movie... I recommend seeing it.

I'm not sure about the 12 mile number, but the rest of the statement is true. They only marketed them in warm area's because of the shortness of life in cold.

GM did give an explanation of why they destroyed the cars. I'm not sure if that was during the time or after the fact, but they are pretty good reasons. Battery tech just isn't up to competing with ICE engines in range yet. Battery tech is lagging behind everything, that's why we still have to plug in out cell phones and laptops every night.

The problem is the movie is also one sided. Just the title alone is leading. Although they did sell some of them off to buyers (some who had to pay 20K for new batteris) ask Toyota where it's EV Rav4's are. Not being produced. GM really didn't want the liablilty of having these cars around so they junked them. Let's not debate this it this thread please, that horse got beat here a few weeks back.

CARB killed the EVs by revising the ZEV ruling in California.

Here's a bus with a similar system that looks like it may hit production at some point:

e-traction bus

Treehugger needs forums where stuff like this can be debated. Instead of in comments.

--
editor note: That might come, it's on the drawing boards.

This defies all economic logic of supply meeting demand. It is obvious that politics are playing a part in allowing mass production of true hybrids like GM's EV.. there is just no other reason.

On 20/20 last night they describe the number one threat to the apocalypse of the earth is global warming. We have the technology to stop an asteroid from demolishing the earth at a speed 60 times that of a bullet coming out of a gun, yet we cannot mass produce electric hybrid cars? I think not!!!!!! OBVIOUS what's going on here.

We can stop an earth destroying asteroid? News to me. I suppose if we see it a few years in advance.

Wheel motors are a smart way to go. If they are done right, they probably weigh less than drum brakes, so not that different from alot of cars.

Ferdinand Porsche's first car was a gas-electric hybrid just like this (though not so cute), first with two wheel motors, and then he made one with batteries and 4 wheel motors (the first 4WD car or truck). That was with 1890's tech, and the 2wd models were some of the fastest cars on the road at the time.

This is the reason I' m going back to college to get my engineering degree. If we can actually get cars like this produced and in the hands of the public we can gain acceptance for gas-electric hybrids. I was willing to buy and Prius and live with the poor performance but if I could have this it would be better. This could be almost as good as a Tesla.

We've had electric Shuttle buses here in Christchurch, New Zealand since 1998. They have a Capstone LPG powered gas-tubine to charge the batteries. Designed and manufactured in Ashburton, NZ. See for more info.

Carl to add on to the info on Porsche. He designed a road train using wheel motors and several carrages. I saw an old pic once, interesting idea, 1 motor/generator car and power goes to all the wheels or something like that. I gotta find it again.

I agree with the comment on having Forums.

Found it C-train or the "C-Zug" as it was callen in German. http://www.hybrid-vehicle.org/hybrid-vehicle-landwehr.html

I've been preaching this for years. Where are the hybrid motorbikes!?!

Something about this doesn't add up.
160hp/wheel? The largest motor they sell on their web page seems to be more like 18hp. At that it weighs 18kg. If you assume the same power/weight ratio, that would mean each of those 160hp motors would weight about 150kg. That's 500kg more than a regular MINI. Though if they did get 160hp/wheel, that should make the car a sight faster than 150mph (the 170hp Cooper S can do 140 IIRC...)

Also, there really isn't a way to make something using 640hp get 80mpg. That is way beyond the physical limits of internal combustion technology (or anything else for that matter). So unless you start with the batteries charged, run them to empty, and then say, "look we hardly burned any gas" it won't work (and that's cheating anyway...)

To get 80mpg you would need to to use a lot less than 640hp – more like 20hp, which is reasonable for a MINI at medium speed (40-50mph or so). Since they haven't changed the aerodynamics of the car any (apart from the wider wheels, which add drag), you are now looking at something that claims to get about double the mileage of a standard MINI One (I'm assuming Imperial gallons since they're in the UK). So double the mileage while adding 500kg to the car's weight? Nevermind the batteries, capacitors, power conditioning, etc... What sort of internal combustion engine are they using?

While I really hope that the 80mpg, range and acceleration numbers are true, a bunch of the other stuff just doesn't add up...

-Eric

Ok, I'm impressed. At least a little. If the numbers are for real (I see that there might be some doubt on that point from a previous poster).

I'd be more impressed if they had used a small diesel instead of a gas-powered generator (or better yet, an SVO engine). While it's nice to get 80+ mpg, it would be even better to do that on a fuel we don't have to buy from OPEC. Biodiesel is ideal for engines that are run at constant RPM and load. And SVO would be even better.

I'd be REALLY impressed if this vehicle was available in production, priced under $20,000, and the required battery changeout was less than $5,000. I'm not holding my breath.

The 0-60 numbers (if real) are double-giant overkill, but they do open up the possibility that this vehicle could be used to occasionally tow a light trailer, which would make it a suitable replacement for my small pickup truck. Not sure I believe 640 hp, though. If the original mini had 100 hp, why bother with more than twice that?

And wheel motors? Problematic.

Hmmm. Batteries *and* supercaps? Ah, the official explanation is the superior amp drawn and charge rate of the supercap, and the better weight/energy ratio of batteries. Combining both gets a balance of the two technologies, maybe holding the battery cost down. Another explanation is that supercaps have to be placed in series to get enough voltage, and need some way to balance charge to prevent damage -- and a battery is a great voltage limiter.

Ok, it's a step in the right direction. Maybe just a feasibility study. I hope to see more.

First of all, BMW is NOT making this car. They make the Mini Cooper. PML is a company that converts a mini-cooper into an EV-with-a-small-ICE hybrid.

Please see the following link for more details (including a confirmation by the company that yes, the car gets over 640 horsepower once converted)

http://www.pmlflightlink.com/archive/news_mini.html

The REALLY good news is that PML has designed the high performance motor and drive system technology used in the car, and that they are confident that they can convert other cars as well!

-Intrepid

Hello, As an Aussie who lives in a Solar Powered home and prior to retiring a Solar powered Business operator, I am pleased to see this site.
However I am equally disappointed that I find no mention of the MDI product developments, Compressed air driven vehicles. See www.mdi.com
Kindest Regards
Bob

Woops , sorry, the MDI URL is www.theaircar.com
This is the future of alternative motor vehicles.
Kindest Regards
Bob

What about reducing the cars weight on the road with a small wing slides or otherwise changes location to balance the load on all four wheels? It could change angle to make the car heavier in the wind on curves. Seems silly but it might work. Aussies and Russians make WIGs, wings in ground effect, that fly only in a wings length of the water, and go very fast. This general type of wing could be used to keep the vehicle out of ground effect and flight,,, but lessen its own weight, making the car run farther on a charge. The wing would have drag too,, would it be an energy efficient thing to do? I guess you could make a wing look appealing and plaster the top with Xeroxs new solar technology with 40% conversion efficiency. I realize this seems quite silly, and am ready for the engineers amongst you to spread folly on this.

Natural Telomerase Inhibitors Investigational Site
www.geocities.com/prime3end

NEWS!NEWS!NEWS!

The company will be selled to Halliburton!

The project will be postponed for some years, and then.... closed!

Any saving by reducing the weight would be more than offset by the drag a wing would create. Example In F1 racing the wing setting is a compromise. Up to 80% of the cars grip comes from the aerodynamic devices on the car however they all create drag. You can lessen the downforce to go fast on the straights but your cornering speeds suffer or increase it but then top speed suffers.(they aren't allowed to adjust the wings while the car is moving)

An active wing can and is used in total performance cars. Due to it's shape the Audi TT needs a small wing to keep it stable at high speed. In a road car and normal speed it will just add drag and waste fuel/charge.

That's why I always get a laugh at the twits that have a huge wing on the trunk, usually on a weak 4cyl car that doesn't need any more hinderances to it's performance. The extra drag and weight kill the MPG as well.
Extra points if it's at an aggressive angle for downforce. Lets see, pushing down on the rear of a FWD car behind the rear axel line would tend to lift the front of the car. Ya that's fun going down the highway with the front end floating. Gotta be carefull with those wings.

LOL,, thanks for the clarifications. And yes I always considered wings on a small 4 cylinder car to be a joke. Gas wasting makes it even dumber. Saw a couple of websites that were interesting on new technology, I would appreciate your inputs:
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/08/the_hybrid_mini.php
and
http://www2.eli.org/index.cfm

Woops, sorry, I posted a link to this car. The other one is good though. What is the projected range increase from battery technology thats in the lab now?

They have created a new form of lith-ion tech that gets about 8x the wattage in the same volume.... They do the coatings on an atomic/molecular scale, thus massively increasing usable area within.

Yes Noghri it seems like LI Ion has been in the research a lot, I even saw some nano technology being applied to increase the wattage density, perhaps that is the one you speak of.

phrancis: If it makes you feel any better I had a similar design concept for a Porsche 914 in the mid-1970s: 4 electric motors, 1 at each wheel and batteries in place of the mid-engine. At the time I didn't know about the problems of unsprung weight and the battery technology available would have provided poor performance.

Eric: Ignore the BHP claim for now. PML's EW30/60 motor has a peak stall torque of 640 Nm and rated speed of 900 rpm. Assuming that the claimed 750 Nm of the 4 motors in the car is peak stall torque, those motors might be similar in size and weight to the EW30/60 which only weighs 18 kg.

"Also, there really isn't a way to make something using 640hp get 80mpg."

I'm not a mechanical or electrical engineer, but my assumption is that you aren't using 640hp during an entire trip - you just use the extreme power when accelerating. I assume that's what the supercapacitor is for -- the big burst (I believe this is known in some circles as 'pulse power'. The batteries are probably powering the car for the majority of the time when the car is simply cruising.

Noghri,

I saw a couple of companies with increased storage density, 8 - 10 fold increase, 50% recharge in ONE MINUTE, less than an hour for full recharge, dramatic range increase for electric cars. By the way, Waggoner the former GM head, said his biggest mistake at GM was stopping the electric car.

ahoy! check this out

Right, we aren't talking about an internal combustion engine, so those mpg don't apply. With electric motors, the computer controls are much more important, used to cycle the motors on and off, so the motors are only drawing a load a small percentage of the time. Not sure how much the motors weigh, but compare the economy to the Tesla Roadster and you can see that for an electric car, this one is pretty inefficient.

Oh, I see your confusion now. The 600+ hp is electric, with a SMALL gasoline engine. That engine might be 80 mpg, or more likely it is some conversion comparing the electric MPG to gasoline and averaging it with the gasoline engine.

Actually Matt, cycling the motors on and off is less efficient than keeping them going, depending upon how often they're being cycled.. Electric motors take massive ammounts of power on their initial start vs. continual operation 'cause they sort of act like generators at the same time that they're operating as motors, but if they're not required to run for very long, that doesn't really matter. However, with automobiles, they're obviously going to be running most of the time, so it would be better to cycle them off as little as possible. That's where computers come in--keeping them turning at low power(or no power as when braking, to replenish the cells) when necessary, rather than continually forking out that start-up power to drain the supplies and using said computers to find the point at which it is more efficient to simply stop powering the motors and restart them later rather than keeping them going.

Electric motors have a large current draw when at 0 RPM and slow speed. Once the motor is turning as in the case of an electic car it doesn't use much current to cycle the power off and on.

Gas engines on the other hand take more fuel to start/stop all the time than they do when running at a steady speed.

So that is why things can be more efficent by using an electic motor to drive the car and only having a generator startup when the batteries reach a preset minimum change and then run till they reach full charge. Less starting and stopping of the gas engine and the electric motor can be switched off and on and from motor to generator easily depending on the needs of the car. Even with a larger current draw from stop at least an electic motor isn't running when the car is stopped using extra energy like a gas car does.

Fun electic motor fact on current draw. Older DC motored railroad diesels have a "short time" that they can be run below a certain speed otherwise the current would burn up the brushes in the traction motors. Once the motor can speed up past the min speed the current draw is less. AC induction motors don't have brushes so this is not a problem and are becoming the motor of choice for new locomotives.

Readers should surely keep this in perspective, this is purely intended as a demonstration of what a PML motor can achieve. Its for the major manufacturers to take this forward.. and they won't. Also let us agree that electric vehicles are not neccesarily viable in cold weather, So use traditional petrol guzzlers when the weather demands and electric only when its applicable. If it means that only 25% of cars run without burning hydrocarbons then the plannet will stil see a bigger CO2 saving than from any other initiative I've seen to date.

An American company is claiming increases in energy storage in their Li Ion batteries, and also claiming to have overcome the cold weather problem in extracting stored energy from the batteries, they claimed a similar rapid recharge as in the Toshiba press release regarding their 50% charge in one minute ,, battery.

Have any of you seen the Toyota Alendresseo Volta concept? Put into production it would be the world's first hybrid supercar and would get quite respectable gas mileage. Unfortunately, not only is Toyota too reasonable to actually sell such a vehicle, but I'm a pennyless student so all I could do is salivate over it.

Oh ya right I guess Toyota isn't too so reasonable as to not sell the Sequoia?

Curb weight (lb.) (2WD/4WD) 5100/5300 5140/5345

Mileage Estimates (mpg city/highway) [9]
2WD 15/18 15/18
4WD 15/17 15/17

BTW the next version is larger as it's on their large pickup platform. No auto company is all sunshine and rainbows. Sure they have hybrids but how many of their large vehicles do they offset? I see many more Toyota SUV's than their hybrids around Chicago.

i love the idea of one motor per wheel,but how about putting the generator on the wheel

Actually the US cannot rid itself of gasoline. Our infrastructure would simply collapse. Hydrogen is a logical replacement as it would require much of the same infrastucture as Fill stations or gas stations require now.

There are Millions of people that work in the oil production, gas refining, and distribution networks that will require jobs. If we eliminate them, the depression will look like the hay days compared to what would happen.

We simply cannot be too green right away. The only President that was going in the proper direction was President Carter. All of his mandates were quickly wiped out by Good Times for the wealthy and by campaign contributions by GM, Ford, and other MFGs.

We are energy Pigs in America, and until we change our lifestyle and attitudes there will be no real fix.

I want one!!!!!

This is really one cute and powerful small car. It has really impressive performance. 4,5 seconds 0-60 mph is what really surprised me for an hybrid car. This is real proof that hybrid and electric motors are making a great technology improvement.

I only hope that big car industries will implement this concept on their new cars. Today a hybrid car can have an impressive performance and range and they should work on new hybrid models. I really like the idea of 4 motors each in one wheel and no brakes. All in all very nice work by the British team.

Way cool! I hope I have not issed the answer to this question...but can someone tell me how they managed to make an electronic differential? I want to convert a motorcycle with a sidecar into an electric toy...

Also..I kinda think that 160 hp per motor is a bit of overkill..I think 4x30 hp motors would give it adequate umph for an economy car...would lighten the car considerably...reduce the cost...extend the battery range, etc.

Awesome

I think that idea was to create a high-performance car, not an economy car, for the purpose of showing the potential of a car powered by hybrid motor. It is not all about saving power.

This is one fantastic futuristic hybrid car. I love it. Three modes of operation are a really cool thing, but I would most probably always drive it in sport mode. Electric wheel technology has really advanced. Nice!

Well no one has thought of this, but this concept would be able to retrofit all cars. Say you have a nice SUV that consumes much gas. You could retrofit this system and make it much more efficient. Then we also wouldn't fill our landfill with old car parts.

I currently own an 03 Mini Cooper but would love to own an electric Mini as we are looking into installing solar panels on our home's roof. Let's end our dependance on Middle Eastern oil and get our energy from the sun!!!!

After personally putting $60,000 into my vintage mini, i get 0-60 in 4 seconds too... but it does suck a lot of gas... http://x-coverage.com/mini-cooper.html

this technology has been available for years now, nobodies gonna mass produce true electric cars because who will need to fill there car with oil products then. who would need the middle east, they'd go broke in 5 years. the skyscrapers there built from oil money would be turned into low income housing. afterall the people of earth own the oil i say its about time we stop buying it from greedy people.

Astro:
""Sorry, but they are lying on their specs. They claim four 160 HP electric motors. Each horsepower equals 746 watts. They are claiming 4 x 160 x 746 = 477,440 watts of power. Gee that is half a megawatt, which would melt a wire thinner than your wrist. The real power is considerably less, and they should stop misleading people with bogus "peak" power claims which can't possibly ever be achieved.""

it need not melt a wire thinner than your wrist. I did a little looking around at wire gauges (http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm). And it turns out wire thickness (gauge) depends only on the number of amps flowing, not the voltage. (I knew this already as I'm in school to become an electrical engineer.
I just thought I'd explain this.) Since wattage = voltage * amperage all you need to do is lower then amperage and raise the voltage (something that power transmission companies do all the time. If you take a look at the size of wire they use to transfer megawatts you'll see it's not massive and most of the size of the wire is insulation for safety. Example using a 10 gauge wire max amperage - 15 A so the voltage to get 477,440 watts is 477,440/15=31,829 Volts. At those peak times (when you're flooring it) this power will be drawn from the super capacitors as well as the battery. At the off peak times (when you're cruising) the power will be provided by the battery solely (at this time a bit of power would be transfered to the capacitors so after you stop they will be at peak charge.).

Re:""Something about this doesn't add up.
160hp/wheel? The largest motor they sell on their web page seems to be more like 18hp. At that it weighs 18kg. If you assume the same power/weight ratio, that would mean each of those 160hp motors would weight about 150kg. That's 500kg more than a regular MINI. Though if they did get 160hp/wheel, that should make the car a sight faster than 150mph (the 170hp Cooper S can do 140 IIRC...)

Also, there really isn't a way to make something using 640hp get 80mpg. That is way beyond the physical limits of internal combustion technology (or anything else for that matter). So unless you start with the batteries charged, run them to empty, and then say, "look we hardly burned any gas" it won't work (and that's cheating anyway...)

To get 80mpg you would need to to use a lot less than 640hp – more like 20hp, which is reasonable for a MINI at medium speed (40-50mph or so). Since they haven't changed the aerodynamics of the car any (apart from the wider wheels, which add drag), you are now looking at something that claims to get about double the mileage of a standard MINI One (I'm assuming Imperial gallons since they're in the UK). So double the mileage while adding 500kg to the car's weight? Nevermind the batteries, capacitors, power conditioning, etc... What sort of internal combustion engine are they using?

While I really hope that the 80mpg, range and acceleration numbers are true, a bunch of the other stuff just doesn't add up...

-Eric""

I don't know how they calculated the mpg and I agree with you on that point. What I don't agree with is you point about horse power being related to fuel mileage. While this is true for ICEs it is not with electric motors. If you want proof take a look at the Tesla.

FWIW, they could make better mpg if they made those wheels fit inside the fender.

I am really impressed, I used to own a 76 mini SS (how many of you have seen one of those ??) - picture available. It used a very special 1312cc cooper S motor, carbon fibres rods, titanium valves, ceramic head lining, 30 degree valves, controlled vortex exhaust.... 165hp, 120 ft.lb of torque from 2000-7200 rpm, 1/4 mile in 14.8s , that at it's max of 235KPH sucked 40 litres of fuel per 100KM ( 7mpg - imperial, 8mpg USA). - oh , it also ran a sprintex supercharger ! I was considering the BBR 308HP conversion (approx $AUS16,000) +++ with 0-100kph in 5.8 seconds, for my '05 cooper - how does the electric system run with climate control ? (cold is NOT a problem in Queensland Australia) HEAT is! , don't know what you pay for fuel but here I pay about $AUS0.65-0.70 per litre (about $US 1.7-$US1.9 per US gallon). Is it possible to use tandem motors on small shafts to keep unsprung weight down, I hear of some aussie CV joint that promises great things - and thus not compromise handling at all - maybe improve it over the original? - could the motors be sprung independently of the wheels suspension ? Race tech showed a lemans car using a 100HP motor , but beecause of batteries it could only boost for under 10 seconds or they would overheat internally. (nice fire in the back there) and on regenthey made the tail REAL loose - read dangerous!
So could I get the mods done under $AUS20,000 ???
(UK 8,000 US 16,000)

I currently own an 03 Mini Cooper but would love to own an electric Mini as we are looking into installing solar panels on our home's roof. Let's end our dependance on Middle Eastern oil and get our energy from the sun!!!!

It is a hybrid: a series hybrid, where an IC engine acts soley as an electrical generator. What some think of as a hybrid is a parallel hybrid, in which the IC engine is integral with the electric motor and can act alone or in concert with the motor.

This car is a series hybrid, and a damned nice one; the IC engine is only used in a long distance driving scenario or when the batteries/capacitor are low on power.

BUILD IT FOR THE REST OF US - and HURRY.
No more foot dragging. Get this thing out here.

I'll buy one. Where do I sign up?

This is a copy of the Chevy VOLT, with the addition of in wheel motors and a very very high pricetag. As I recall, this copy cost $600,000
to build. As far as I know it's not for sale. It's batteries are far infrior to the VOLT battery pack, which will have a lifespan greater than 15 years.
This car uses plain li ion batteries that will need replacement every five years or so and will not be cheap. The cost of driving this vehicle will be high
because of the batteries' short lifespan and high cost.

lol, I've read plenty on this car and had a frustrating time reading all the misnomers off some peeps on here. I hope to clarify. Sorry for appearing to be a know-it-all.

1. The max output power has nothing to do with power consumption at any given speed. So whether 640bhp or 60bhp. At 60mph it should consume around 20bhp (15Kw/h).

2. Starting torque: If you do not want your neck snapping off at the lights then power is restricted by your throttle/computer combination. so there is no big torque at this point, unless you floor it.

3. This mini is regeneratively braked. Needs no discs, joints or half shafts. Which with these motors increases the unsprung weight by 2kg (4lb) a wheel.

4. Four "in wheel" motors in that mini are their (HPD40: 120Kw and 25Kg). Two smaller sizes available: 80Kw, 4kg lighter and 40Kw, 7Kg lighter. Look for the HiPa drives in "pmlflightlink" website.

5. Parking brake is fitted now.

6. The alloys were on 2" spacers to attract attention when it was on show.

7. No, its not even close to a copy to the chevy Volt. Just 'cos its not from the USA does not mean inferior! Small car manufacturers are falling over themselves for this technology. Who's bothered with the Chevy one? They put this in a mini to prove it can be done with ANY car!

Note: Top rev's is only 2000rpm. So mini wheels give 150mph, thats yer lot in speed. You will not consume 640bhp's worth of electric at this speed. Not enough load! The battery is "only" 24Kw/h? I may be wrong. Enough for real day use. Or a scutch up the street to impress your mates real good. Acceleration was limited by its tyres by the way.

Just think.. A charging unit that would pre-warm your cabin for those mornings. What about the ATV abilities? - No drive restrictions to where your wheels are.

An earlier respondent mentioned about an electric bike. I'm a biker who's it thought too. Mine would be a big'un. One 120Kw (160bhp) motor on the swing arm line. No frame - ideal for monocoque to house all and mount suspension parts etc. Sit back,sit wide. Can be a slippy shape friendly to the human frame with screen/roof? Legs out of the dirt and rain. A matching trailer can house a charger (too) for distance use.

Or maybe a cut-down point and squirt short range mad-head bike. Extra super capacitors required with High "C" rating (LiPo or Li-ion) batteries: 400lb, (possible) @160bhp. Range? ha!

I hope you enjoyed reading this. :)

This is one of the best ideas I have heard in a while, I hope someone gets on the ball and puts this into production soon. Not only will it save us some much needed gas money, but whoever puts it on the market will be an instant millionaire. Before this, these types of cars were always slow, which turned people like myself (who like speed a bit too much) away from them. Amazing

I think that four motors is the way to go. I also think that you can also put magnets around the wheels making the wheels move more freely. It would take some research. But it will work. It would be run by computers. It should make the time that is used by the battery last longer. And also go longer distance. And they talk about green house. We should go white. roors,streets.side walks. roofs on building. I live in South Florida. The beach here is really hot. Because the sand is not light. But up in the pan handel the sand is white. and is is not hot to walk in the day time. Case and point. Thank You

When will the Hybrid Mini go on line. Can you buy this Hydrid Mini now.

I live in SoCal where the sun shines 364 days a year (it seems).
I would buy one of these (must be a Mini, not some Chevy piece-O-***) in a heartbeat!

Imagine the rooftop lined with solar panels. I could drive to work, park in the sun, and NEVER have to recharge the battery with the help of the gas-motor/generator OR by plugging it in at night.

SIGN ME UP!

living in arizona, i wonder what happens when you run the a/c?

No wearing parts other than bearings. It's a shame but, I don't thin we'll ever see something like this hit production, at least not in the US. The manufacturer would effectively put themselves out of business as there are no parts to replace.

So where can I buy the kit? I want one!
I already have an 04 cooper S, and would love to have a speedy zero emmision vehicle.
I live on an island, so range is no issue.
Now how about some thin-film solar photovoltaics on the horizontal surfaces, so those of us in the tropics don't have to slave for the oil companies?

Why the excess of power? A mini can run fine on 100 hp...say 50 hp per wheel x 2 wheels. Would'nt this reduce the weight and increase the range? Is'nt range the real goal of electric cars and not flash performance?...at least untl NASCAR goes electric!

Some of you are missing the entire point of the demonstration car.

First, the car has an all electric range of 200-250 miles.
Second, it has a small generator to extend this range so you could take trips in it.
Third, it has explosive accelleration when needed.

Fourth, If you draw mega amps with a lead foot, you wont get 200 miles, and will make the generator come all the time to keep the batteries charged and start burning fuel. The capacitors will deliver high energy for a brief period, once expended they have to be charged back up, so you may get 640 HP for a few seconds. That is enough power to launch the car for exotic car level of performance.

So, the demonstrator shows us we can have a car that could take you to work every day without burning any gas, if you need to take a trip it will get you there at reasonable highway speeds, but you will have to burn some gas to do so. It also will provide a level of performance that will make the car fun to drive, at the expense of all electric range, or with the added expense of burning gas when you are hot rodding around.

I would buy this car right now if available and it sold for less than $60,000 USD.

I drive 25,000 miles a year and that equates to $4,000 per year in fuel costs, the pay back period would be short. Since for most of my driving it would be all electric and AC power at the house is far, far cheaper than fuel at the pump.

how much for the parts? i want one. send me a catalog.

Too bad the 'motors in the wheels' are $15,000 each - they are manufactured by the NGM corporation, which has a monopoly of sorts on the hub motor market.

This Mini utilizes the same motor technology as most solar car teams use. The reason it is able to perform so well is because the efficiency for hub motors is above 95% (the efficiency of a gasoline engine alone is about half of this percentage).

1:
TAKE A LOOK AT www.pmlflightlink.com this is the company which made the motors.
(facts about unsprung weight and other technical questions are answered there in q&a)
2:
They don't make other than 120kW motors. (120kW are pretty expensive about 5-6000 pounds ) plus you need the controller which is about this price.

I would say that 20kW motors would be sufficient for the car. Electric motor has flat torque, so this 20kW is more than 20kW on ICE.

Even if they have no intention of building the completed car, it would be nice if they published a shopping list of parts with prices and instructions for the tinkerers among us.

Since they've already done the development work on insturmentation and control systems for the Mini and now a Volvo the additional cost (I'm assuming the initial cost is already wrote off as either R&D or advertising / market development) to duplicate and distribute the software would be minimal for those two models.

Heat and A/C wouldn't be a problem. A rotary / scroll compressor type heat pump could be used for both A/C or heat; easy to just reverse as needed with an electric drive motor. The only issue would be the amount of current drain; it would probably cut down the "mpg".

I've read all the post here up to this point, and yes it looks to be an interesting little electric powered rocket ... in a straight line. At some point, though, it's gonna have to go around a corner and no-one who's a fan of this car has yet to satisfactorily address the two critical driveability issues which have been raised:
1. Moving weight out from the centre (almost) of the car out to the four corners and the effect of this on it's polar moment of inertia.
2. An unsprung weight in the 160hp per wheel version of approx. 55 lb per wheel, not including the tire. If you add a weight of about 10lb per tire for just a performance "R" rated tire that's 65 lbs per wheel, which is just a little lighter than the 15" rims and tires on my old '88 GMC pick-up, so you can imagine what that much unsprung weight would do to a little Mini!! And the front driveshafts on the stock Mini are only 50% unsprung weight, so I don't see where the "only 4 lbs heavier" quoted previously comes from, plus which, there's no driveshaft on the rear of a stock Mini, so that "only 4 lbs heavier" justification disappears there. Motors in wheels works on railway locomotives as they run on a relatively smooth surface, but in this car? I ain't so sure.

I've been around cars for about 50 years now, and it seems to me that, other than a few exceptions like the Tesla, experimental vehicles from those whose primary interest is "environmental" never take into account the dynamics involved in a vehicle in motion, and especially when that involves deviating from a straight line.

WOOOOO im so in love with this car

i want to get naked in it!!!

Personally, I've never been a huge fan of the mini - but with a mini like this - this is a really neat car! Very nice!

Where have you been all my life? Too bad I can never have you.

far as i can gather the Tesla flopped cos power burst drained the battery fast. would be hard to drive this car without treating it like an expensive go-kart. why not. say you gunned it in a tricky spot. . . does it promise to deliver?

IOW how many drag runs before it wilts?

Cheers to all - keep it up

PS Where's the independent test drive commentary?

far as i can gather the Tesla flopped cos power burst drained the battery fast. would be hard to drive this car without treating it like an expensive go-kart. why not. say you gunned it in a tricky spot. . . does it promise to deliver?

IOW how many drag runs before it wilts?

Cheers to all - keep it up

PS Where's the independent test drive commentary?

The CEO of Ford was quoted at the New York auto show as saying,"in five years people will not believe the choices in electric cars.

I think the biggies are getting it.

There are a lot of uniformed comments here. I wish I knew more about the electrics but I know that it takes about twice the horsepower to get the same result as ICE. But that is only for starting out. In the long run a car like this with a self powered trailer with a ICE for long trips is the answer. 80 MPG. that is a Paradym shift of major proportions, AND power to intimidate your friends.

I am in the market right now. Trucks next with diesel over electric.

Tagging along with what Jeff said on Sept 17, 2007, I would sure like to see what these PML fellows come up with if they aimed for a Mini-Cooper that accelerated from 0 - 60 mph in 9.5 or 10 seconds, top speed 90 mph...the electric motors could be lighter, and maybe only in the front wheels.?

And what about keeping open the possibility now of using EEStor's ultra-capacitor EESU? (Forward-looking statement: their Electrical Energy Storage Unit is supposed to be cheaper to manufacture, and have better charge/discharge performance, and weight less than comparable lithium batteries) (forward looking statement: ZENN of Toronto is talking about converting fleets of ICE taxicabs to electric in the foreseeable ?2010? future)

Unsprung weight: I wish I knew more about its ill effects. I'm gathering that if a car has real heavy wheels that causes unpleasant pounding and hammering for the occupants...Maybe after the motors have been made as light as possible old-school high-profile tires could be used? functioning in a way as a form of suspension?

The controller, imo, is as great as the "in-wheel" concept... the way the wheels communicate 1,000x per second... BMW Corp. uses the phrase "path accuracy" to decribe its steering and handling goal. Wouldn't independent wheel-motors give you the best cornering and most stable lane-changes ever?

I realize that high-profile tires don't fit in with the concept of great "path accuracy", on the other hand, wheel-motors and batteries located down low, instead of an engine located up relatively high, would lower your center of gravity, right?

And aren't some high end cars equipped with instantly-reacting, or even bump-anticipating, shock absobers? Would that not help mitigate the pounding of the unsprung wheel assembly?

Its about time. We could've been driving machines like this 60 plus years ago if the oil industry hadn't been so influential. Now we are having to start over again and it pains me to think we won't be able to drive one of these cars for some time yet. I believe PML flightlink are working closely with Volvo on their concept 'recharge' and this could definately help in us driving these sooner rather than later. if only other manufacturers would jump on board and help bring this technology to a point where it would be both practical and affordable for the consumer. Hydrogen cell technology is another option but right now you would have to be a multi-billionaire to be able to afford driving one and as for the future? What is the point? Electric motors have been a part of our existence since Michael Faraday discovered the principal of converting electric energy into mechanical energy in 1821. That is 167 years of time wasted developing other means of propulsion that have proved to be inefficient. I think as consumers we should be ashamed of this. It is time we stood up and demanded a little more from the automotive industry. After all without the demand they wouldn't make a living and more. I live in hope that common sense prevails over greed.

One more thing. To all the nitpickers complaining about silly things like unsprung wait etc. WHAT??? We have a technology in our grasp that could potentially save lives. Not only in the reduction of carbon emitions but also in crashworthyness. I think that alone is reason enough to embrace it.

Yes, the real design challenge is maximun range in an all electric car that is reasonably safe and affordable with sufficient power to pass a truck. The world does not need more race cars...so go to it lads. I want to buy one soon. Maybe you need to talk to Phoenix motorcars down in LA. CHEERS!

An estimated showroom price would have been nice, unless I missed that bit?

um, so what happens if this motor/wheel gets wet and/or dirty. Has it been tested on real terrain and weather?

um, so what happens if this motor/wheel gets wet and/or dirty. Has it been tested on real terrain and weather?

I hate to burst everyones bubble, but the industry has a lock on all new technology, and they are not going to allow any thing that stops them from selling every last drop of oil.

I don't know why there aren't more beta versions of these kind of cars out on the market. Here in Houston, there are hundred of people who would pay above market rates to be the first one testing this kind of technology. Do they have a "beta customer" list - would love to sign up for something like that.

thats nice maybe when the gallon of gas cost $10,000 they will tell us where to buy one. i have a mini how can i convert mine to this? where can i buy the parts? ill be happy with one engine in one tire and half a batery and no ice

I am very excited about the Hi-Pa Drive In-Wheel Motors by PML, but after contacting them, the realities of availability of their In-Wheel Motors are so far more implied than real, so far. Their Distributor listed for the US never answers the phone, so seems to be non-existant, and PML didn't even know they had a listed US Distributor, and the exclusive agreement cited with Zap does not exist after all either, and Zap knew nothing of the agreement and was not hopeful or knowledgeable about availability anytime soon, so they gave up on PML Motors, at least for now.

It seems that PML has put the cart ahead of the horse in a big way so far. I'm very hopeful of their claims being a reality, but something is holding it up. Might be either design safety, reliability, testing or final and practical production designs.

I really hope that PML can pull this off with the specs claimed in a real world production application. God knows we're ready!

-Kevin

This has not appeared on the market because it was a stunt. It doesn't make sense to put this drivetrain into a body so non-aerodynamic as a Mini.

No matter how wonderful it is, you still get back around to the fact that anything that might be really money-saving tends to get shelved for long periods.

None of the developers really cares a bit about YOU and I saving our hard earned money. The folks who think up good ideas might, but they are just wanting to get their theories out. The big companies will still buy up ideas like this one and put it on a shelf until they can muck it up with 'proprietary' design features. Like the brakes that are so involved in the current hybrids that you can't afford to let them be the least bit below optimal function. Features that raise the cost, reduce the efficiency. Features that will make a car like this one impossible to buy for the folks who have the most to lose ... us. If you have a good year and can afford to get one, it will be so messed up there will be almost nothing owner-serviceable.

The idea of having a car like this is lovely. Especially if you generate your own power - by solar, wind or hydro - and don't have to plug in and pay a power company. I just don't think the car companies will go much out of their way about making them reasonable any time soon.

So it's been 2 years since this article was written.

As I type, there are no fuel cell cars and no electric cars on the market or even in production. The hybrid scene is looking okay, but there are only a few models that offer significant jumps in MPG (of gasoline)- the Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic hybrid.

sad.

I say this brilliant electric Mini should be put in production asap, no need to wait it's a sure WINNER
Com,on guys at BMW get it moving no need to wait!!!
It will sell like hot dougnuts
Fred from OZ

How would the electric motor system hold up in winter with snow, salt, and Ice, being the motors are right on the wheels.

As for the concern about getting heat for the occupants and defrost, I propose to you this elegant and simple solution: a space heater. Just requires one more plug on the circuit! We can put it where the Radiator used to be.

go check out the tesla roadster and then they are going to make less expensive blue star then the less expensive white star research its sick

Hello !

Where can I buy motors like the mini have /motor in the wheel / and what is the cost.

Thanks.
L.Novotny.

This sounds really good. It seems like these guys made the modified a Mini Cooper just to prove a point. They did not outline any serious plans to produce this vehicle or did I miss it? Here is something I found interesting:
The benefits of PML in-wheel drive technology are;
* It is adaptable to other vehicle chassis
* It eliminates the need for gearing and mechanical drive train
* It allows more space inside the car
I really like the idea that the “in wheel drive technology” (let’s refer to this as IWDT) is adaptable to other vehicle chassis. This along with some of the other components, especially the batteries would allow a lot of the smaller players who may be more innovative than the old line automakers get into the EV business. Develop some ISO spec’s covering size, connectors etc. Then see who could produce the best products.

I would hate to come out to see my brand new electric mini up on bricks... Those tires better be securely attached :p

if you a Generator in the wheels some how that Generates its own electecety as the wheels are turning and hook the Generateor's up to the motor..thar will be no need for a battery.. well.. thar will be a need for a batter but only to start the car .. once it is moveing you can shut the battery off =)

I take it that you are joking

Hey, why not put a solar cell on the roof and use this to recharge the battery? You would still need the ICE for night use but could even further increase the range without using a fossil fuel.

Yes YES YES!!! This is the way to do it. Electric motors AT the wheels, much more efficient. And the car always moves by electric motors, this is how deisel freight trains have been working for 50+ years, although they dont use batterys. They get their electricity from constantly running deisel engines turning generators. We dont need ice's to move us anymore. Electric motors are just as powerful if not more than ice's for everyday street transport. I would LOVE to see this powertrain put into a Mazda Miata. Ohh yeah!!!

Hi, I live in South Africa. I designed my electric vehicle and started collecting parts, and have found that as soon as people know what you want to do they give you lots of resistance, so much so that i have to build the body/Chasis myself. I think that you would think that Why build a electric vehicle? Well i am a student and only travel about 100miles a day so limited range is okay for me and about 85-90% of the people in my town

I am pretty sure that 100 miles per day range will accompany 100% of the people around the world.

I am pretty sure that 100 miles per day range will accompany 100% of the people around the world.

It takes at least 26 HP. to run a 20 KW. genorater . This car could never do what they sey that it can. That is why they are not being produced. There is a car made over seas that get's 70 miles per gallon right now. The liberals controling washington won't let be sold in the US because it has a deasel engen. I read about it on MSN.com. I have reshered electric car's, and they requirer to much power to operate.

Because PML is a clean sheet design the wheel motors are within 2 Kg (4.4lbs) of the original wheel weight. No brake discs, calipers or drive shafts. The wheels are liquid cooled as well.
The high torque is required as no gear box which normaly amplifies the torque of an IC engine.

If the battery is fully charged the motors dump brake energy to a reistor in the wheel.

Volvo are using 60 Kw PML motors in their C30 design called the Recharge out in 2012. BMW don't want to know, as it makes their design look stupid.

Ford are all so picking up n the PML motors.

For fun I have seen for sale powered suit cases with 2 PML motors and a rechargable battery.

Great, but what's the price tag? To make a hybrid the average person can't afford is self defeating.

I am a waiting for a cheeper electric car, so far the big car companies haven't released one yet and the Viper is way too costly. The stupid local car companies are going to miss out waiting for big cash gains. A plugin car seams the way to stop the oil companies from dipping into our pockets and we could save lots of money on gasoline. Batteries are hear now and the could develope vairable software to accomidate newer future batteries. Also who need over 125 hp electric horse power for a 1250 pound mini copper vechicle And may be the car could have a range of 100 miles per charge, extra range batteries optional. A gasloine generator is also a optional. Two wheel drive is fine for most driving, The money save with two motors and smaller battery, and smaller batery replacement cost is huge So give us a cheep plug-in electric car now.