The strategy of Tesla is to enter at the high end of the market [with the roadster], where customers are prepared to pay a premium, and then drive down market as fast as possible

Achieving economic transport will require us to change how we think about transport.

Today I was sitting in my car thinking...What if you'd halve the width of the car... Lower it for stability...Reduce the wheelbase a bit... Use lighter carbonfiber where before steel was used...Place low profile batteries on the floor...And replace the wheels with in-hub motors versions...

You get a low profile low wind resistance two in a line car on a diet without giving up any of the conveniences of today's cars.

The argument that sometimes you need to transport more people is mute because this is a personal transport device and if there are more people you get more vehicles.

In my younger years I travelled the 21km to school on a scooter. So did my mates and in our free time we would meet up and go places on the scooter in groups.

Personal vehicles would bring back this sense of freedom to most families. Yes there are exceptions but most families would benefit from one or two personal vehicles and save energy and reduce polution and park anywhere.

It's the same exact strategy Commuter Cars Corp has taken with the Tango.

Let's hope that Tesla's superior capitalization and marketing savvy are sufficient to make a difference this time.

Arguments are "moot" not "mute".

To the poster above. The Tesla actually has some decent design aesthetic, unlike the Tango.

To the poster above. The Tesla actually has some decent design aesthetic, unlike the Tango.

True, of course. I simply wanted to point out that the basic "start upmarket (with a hotrod), then go for scale economies" strategy is not new, and thus not a sufficient condition for success.

Dinther, how will this lower, shorter, smaller car still be convinient?
And how much would it cost to replace steel with CF?

Some people actually need to transport things other than thier own fat ass's.

In reply to dinther:

There already is a smaller 'half lane' car out there. Read about it about a year ago.

On MSNBC with Alex Witt on Saturday, SEP 30 9:45am eastern, Lou Ann Hammond, CEO of carlist.com, said the Tesla electric roadster only gets 150 miles per charge.

I first thought Lou Ann misspoke, but Alex Witt challenged her on the fact that 150 miles per charge wouldn't take you very far and Lou Ann didn't correct the 150 miles per charge number to the correct 250 miles per charge that is correctly reported on carlist.com

http://www.carlist.com/wabc_radio/180806/180806.html

"John Batchelor and Lou Ann Hammond talk to Tesla Motor's CEO and founder, Martin Eberhard.
Tesla will display their $100,000 electric vehicle at the 56th Annual Pebble Beach Concours d'Elegance.

The Tesla Roadster boasts the equivalent of 135 mpg and a range of 250 miles on a single charge. The first "Signature One Hundred" vehicles, that go 0-60 in 4 seconds, sold out in three weeks. "

On the Tesla website, 250 miles per charge is listed as a frequently asked question:
http://www.teslamotors.com/learn_more/faqs.php

"Range depends on driving style and conditions. On the EPA highway driving cycle we expect 250 miles on a charge."

Why was this reported incorrectly? Will a correction be made?

Not sure where the discrepancy came in, but the correct value is 250 miles on the EPA highway cycle.

For the record, even 150 miles per day takes you quite far. The average US commuter travels about 32 miles round trip each day, so even with extra errands thrown in, one charge could last for days.

But then, one charge never has to last for days, because one of the great things about electric cars is that they always have a full "tank" in the morning.

I am glad to hear they are coming out with some more affordable models. And a four door. I would love the sport car, but with children, its hard to justify. Now this is perfect. I hope Telsa puts GM out of business!

I really makes you wonder about Toyota's REAL reasons for stopping production of the RAV E4. Anyway, who cares? What a great electric name - TESLA. I'm hoping that, in about five years, they'll have a 35Grand version of the 100G's beaut they're selling now. It makes me crazy just looking at it! Time really is on our side, this time!

A lot of people are going to be really disappointed with this company after the hypefest subsides.

--
editor note: Do you know something we don't, or is this just pessimism?

Peopl at this electric co. either are STUPID or GREEDY. (Elon Musk, the chairman said " The strategy of Tesla is to enter at the high end of the market [with the roadster], where customers are prepared to pay a premium, and then drive down market as fast as possible ) THAT IS WHY AND HOW EV can't make it to main stream. Rich and well to do people will always buy cars, roadster, sports car that act and sound like the real thing. Even at $5 a gallon, do you think they are concern about the gas prices at all, seriously? In effect, they may have invest heavily in gas and oil co since their stock brokers were encouring them to do so. (Exxon Bp annouce high returns).

Why couldn't they learn from Henry FORD who pioneered the T-Model, one type of car for all. Then, the prices came down. This is very simple!!! Oh my God, when are they going to learn...seriously, how many miles do you think these Tycoons going to put on their EV card if assume they would buy them in the first place (Big IF)...The answer is very little.

Just have to get this out of my chest!!!

As soon as I can (which should be in about a year), I'm going to cough up the 89 large for a Tesla roadster. I'm single, don't have kids, already have a house. This year's project is installing solar panels on the house, and I will be sizing them large enough to accomodate charging an EV. I'm a physicist for a national lab who makes good money, and I figure that if people like me can be early adopters, rather than just movie stars, there's a good chance that Tesla's strategy will work. I really believe in Tesla's mission, and I'm willing to pay a very high premium for it.

The point of this post isn't to brag - the point is to say that I'm willing to bet that there are more early adopters out there like me who will go for it. Take heart! Things will get better (at least on this front). With Ford posting a $12.7 BILLION loss, Tesla is poised to kick their lazy, oil-bribe-taking a$$es.

How long do the batts last? how much is the new set of batts?

As student in electrical engineering its only natural for me to want these vehicles. The future of electric transportation from motorcyles to cars and suvs looks very promising indeed. We need companies like Tesla Motors. We also NEED more people like ElectricGrl practically paving the way for affordable mass-market vehicles everyone could drive. I applaud you for that! What can I say, I love the roadster. You's could call me the electric dude. Let's plug america in and solve this energy crisis. : D

The reason that the big 3 (Ford, GM, Chysler) got out of the EV business is that their business model collapses. With the money coming in from leases, parts, maintenance, etc., on gas powered vehicles they realized that EVs would kill their bottom line. This is why they are all pushing hybrids and alternative fuel vehicles - maintenance and planned obsolescence are still significant income streams with these technologies.

The price of the electric vehicles would drop dramatically if the big three got in the game - it is simple economics of scale.

What we should be doing is figuring our a way for the general public to get electric vehicles (at reasonable costs) and a viable business model for the big three.

Paul, Jeff, Earnest, Dick, Casey & ElectricGrl,
Seems to me we all would like an affordable EV. I'm sure there are many more people like us all over the world. It's not only important to support this technology; the masses need to turn away from what I call the “oil technology monopoly”. Don’t get me wrong, I wont be giving up buying gas for my 1995 Mercury, but I’ve decided not to buy or lease a new gas powered car or hybrid. The big 4 can offer 0% financing and drop car prices all they want. I will not budge. My next new car will NOT burn gasoline. I’m positive that if people felt as strongly as I do, and followed my example, the big 4 would begin to sell the alternate technology they already have. Loss of revenue can make large companies, even industries; change their “business model”. I just hope Tesla Motors doesn’t get bought out by the Oil industry or Car industry like Ballard Power Systems Inc. (BLDP) was. Ford (F) and Daimler Chrysler (DCX) hold a large amount of Ballard (BLDP) stock and derailed it from rolling out their own fuel cell cars.

Watch the “Fuel Cell Cars” video I’ve posted on YouTube and Google.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgxaKWqUbXQ

wow, i feel special, i got to see this car in person at the compant in san jose before it even came out in the news and i also am going to verify that the "rumor" about the newer and more affordable version coming out is totally true! i cannot wait!!!

-:J:-

Half the price of an $89 thousand dollar roadster is still $44,500. For that price a person could buy two $15,000 economy cars, invest the other $15,000 and use the proceeds to fill their tanks. If a person just bought one car, they could invest $30,000, which if invested properly would probably cover gas, insurance, maintenance for 10 years. And leave the purchaser with enough cash to purchase whatever is available then.

The reason the big automakers dont produce these vehicles isnt because of big oil! If big oil was to blame then big auto wouldnt be producing E85 vehicles, sure big oil still gets 15% of the fuel, but they give up 85%!

No! The biggest reason green vehichles arent mainstream is because only 2 of the top 10 most fuel efficient vehicles available are on the top 10 best selling list! And thats after high gas prices!

Enviornmentalists should treat any vehicle that isnt electric, a hybrid, a FFV, or a non economy car(if someone cant afford the new tech, these usually cost about $10 thousand less than the average new car!) like the new Fur!

When automakers start seeing large portions of their income either going to greener vehicles, or staying in consumers pockets when they choose cheeper economy cars over mid size gas guzzlers things will change!

I am very excited about this company too, but I wonder if all the people who want the domestic auto companies to go belly up have given any serious thought to what that would do to the 100s of thousands of employees and the 6 billion dollar a year prop up to the health care industry that GM doles out yearly. A better result would be to get GM and Ford to make serious changes fast to not get left behind.

I am very excited about this company too, but I wonder if all the people who want the domestic auto companies to go belly up have given any serious thought to what that would do to the 100s of thousands of employees and the 6 billion dollar a year prop up to the health care industry that GM doles out yearly. A better result would be to get GM and Ford to make serious changes fast to not get left behind.

I think some here have missed the point of electric vehicles and clouding the truth by arguing about big oil, economics and the big 3.

The first thing to remember about electric vehicles is this: It is the RIGHT thing to do for the future of our children and our planet. Have you ever stood by the tailpipe of your gas burning vehicle after you start it up? I have, and it smells ironically like poison. Raw gasoline smells the same. It kills everything it touches. Ever tried to look across the sky of a major city? Chances are you have probably seen the smog and pollution all these gasoline burning cars are creating.

The refueling infrastructure for EV's is already in your homes, right now. Power production from any power plant is vastly cleaner than burning gasoline any day. With cleaner coal, nuke plants, hydro, solar and wind energy now being developed and harnessed, it makes the most sense.

Hydrogen; well, this is a waste of yours and my tax dollars. Energy is LOST to make it. And it came from the same power plants.

I want to leave a cleaner planet behind for my kids, even if it costs me more during my lifetime. It is sad that some people do not have the capacity to think beyond themselves, never thinking about the future of our children and how we are destroying the planet for them.

And to those of you who "cant wait" to see Tesla fail, shame on you. Burning gasoline is simply not the answer anymore and this is what mankind and the world NEEDS.

I hope Tesla is extremely successful in its endeavor. Our futures depend on it.

"I am very excited about this company too, but I wonder if all the people who want the domestic auto companies to go belly up have given any serious thought to what that would do to the 100s of thousands of employees and the 6 billion dollar a year prop up to the health care industry that GM doles out yearly."

If they go belly up because they're outcompeted by TESLA, that's the market for you. We shouldn't be imprisoned with antiquated gas-guzzlers just because we want to support the people who build them. What about the hardworking people at TESLA Motors? They deserve our support just as much as GM does. And if they ever do manage to put out an economy car, believe me, there will be enough demand for it that they'll need to hire more employees and start new manufacturing plants across the US. Plus, there'd be a lot of demand for these cars overseas (because they're better!), which would bring billions into the US economy. Tax dollars on the company would (or should at least, if the government is any good) support public health care. And the environment will thank you, too.

It's how the economy works. It's inhumane to kill the better company.

"A better result would be to get GM and Ford to make serious changes fast to not get left behind."

It's their fault for burying their heads in the sand. We can't make choices for them.

"Half the price of an $89 thousand dollar roadster is still $44,500. For that price a person could buy two $15,000 economy cars, invest the other $15,000 and use the proceeds to fill their tanks."

Sure, but an economy car isn't a sports car. Clearly the Roadster isn't marketed to people who would otherwise buy an economy car. That isn't their business model. But people buy Porsches and Ferrarris, so why not the Roadster?

I supposably learnt that a question is mute at da liberry.
MMMMmmmm smell that fresh american ignorance! Freshly roasted.

The Tesla is a step in the right direction but actually justifying it simply because it costs .02 a mile to drive is not in the math-yet. I hope to own one way down the line when my car needs replaced and the ergonomics of the electric car meets my needs. Until then, my 28 MPG (on E10) Toyota Camry is sufficient.

Cost of Tesla: 98K
Cost of 98K in gas @ $4.50/gal = 21,777 gal
21,777 gal x 28 mpg = 609,756 miles
To go the same 609,756 mile distance in the Tesla @ .02/mile = $12,195 (thats cool, but look at the initial costs)

Of course there is vehicle maintenance on both cars (more so on the Camry) but this is sufficient to make a point.

To upgrade and break even leaves you a worn out electric car with more than 609K miles.

It goes without saying that my Camry isn't going to go 600K either. So I'll buy another used one.

The point, just drool over the Tesla, drive what you got, and stop buying your latte which breaks down to an average of $28 per gal...

Think about it.

to previous poster : even generously granting the assumption that driving a tesla roadster is somehow equivalent to a toyota camry (i drive an accord, so this is not to put you down, merely to point out that you really should compare a tesla with say a porsche), your calculations are a bit off.

also, you cannot compare by price alone, since you should take into account greenhouse gas impact which is what EVs are all about.

initial price
tesla = 89,000
camry = 20,000

fuel cost over lifetime (using EPA assumption of 15,000, and mine of 12 years for lifetime)
tesla = 15,000mi x 0.02$/mi = $300 * 12 = $3600
camry = 15,000mi/28mpg * 6 $/g = 2,410 * 12 = $38,571 (i don't think gas will be $4.50 average over next 12 years)

so, total cost over lifetime
tesla = $92,600
camry = $58,571

if you added maintenance costs, which will be higher for camry, since it has an engine and all the parts the tesla does (motor, transmission, ...), the tesla doesn't come out looking so bad

if you factor in roadster vs. family sedan, envtl. impact, and possibility of using your own solar power for it, the tesla comes out better and better

of course, a modestly priced family sedan EV will look even better vs. the camry

that said, i don't have $89K for a car, so i drive my accord very little, so that its carbon footprint resembles that of a civic hybrid (only $7,500 miles per year)

You made the same mistake many do. You forgot interest. Once you factor that in the Camry owner can easily save $6,000 to $14,000 a year over the Tesla owner

Heres the math.
Each person drives 15,000 miles a year. Camry (15,000/28MPG)=535 gallons of gas. Tesla = 0 gallons of gas.

Each person spends $300 a year out of pocket for fuel. Tesla uses it for electricity, Camry uses it for gas (or E85 alcohol fuel if gas goes over $7 a gallon, see below)

Camry owner puts $69,000 into a safe low yield 3.5% CD and earns $2,415 a year interest.

So assuming none of the $69,000 in the bank is touched this means the Camry owner has ($2,415interest and $300 fuel allowance) $2715 a year to spend on fuel.

The following is how much a year the Camry owner will SAVE or SPEND compared to the Tesla owner

Gas $4 a gallon = 2140 Camri owner SAVED $575 a year
Gas $5.07 a gallon = 2715 Camri owner Breaks EVEN
Gas $6 a gallon 3210 Camri owner SPENDS $495 a year
Gas $7 a gallon 3745 Camri owner SPENDS $1030 a year

Notice that not until gas hits $5.07 a gallon does the Tesla owner even start to come out ahead cost wise. And 5-12 years later when both cars are worn out and needing to be replaced the Camry owner still has $69,000 sitting in the bank. The Tesla owner is BROKE!

But what if the cost of gas goes even higher? Gas can only go so high before other fuel sources kick in and keep the price stable or the person switches to the alternative fuel. Notice that alcohol is already starting to be used and that’s with gas still under $4 a gallon. If gas hit $6 a gallon alcohol will be a fully viable alternative, and people will start buying less gas (thus keeping the cost of gas at around $6 a gallon). If you don’t understand economics / don’t believe that gas will start to stabilize then simply buy an E85 instead of the Camry and use cheap E85 alcohol for fuel.

But doesn’t the Camry cost more to repair? Highly doubtful. The Tesla has no warranty information, which is not a good sign that the car will last a long time, and according to one website the batteries are only rated to last for 5 years. The battery pack alone probably will cost more then a new Camry. EVEN if you want to try to claim that the Camry costs a few hundred more a year to repair, ask your self how much more money a year the $89,000 Tesla will cost just for insurance.

Random

From a marketing standpoint, I hope Tesla develops a new brand name for their affordable line of vehicles. I don't believe most wealthy people will continue to buy Tesla's if they also sell a car thats half the price.

If ferrari sold a car for 25 grand, it would ruin their brand and deter their high-end customers away.

I do realize many wealthy people have numerous reasons to buy a Tesla besides the fact that its an elite sports car (environmental issues, etc..), which may disprove my theory. But I do believe it is in Tesla's best interest to develop a different brand name for its low-end vehicles.