Permaculture - Permanent Agriculture (& a mini movie)
by Warren McLaren, Sydney on 08.27.06
We do go on a bit about local food around here. But there is nothing more local than your own home grown food. Permaculture is one powerful method for cultivating a sustainable supply of your own food needs, be from your own balcony, backyard or barrio (neighbourhood). We recently ran a story on a permaculture project in a city ‘hood, but you might like a tad more on just what it is: “Permaculture (permanent agriculture) is the conscious design and maintenance of agriculturally productive ecosystems which have the diversity, stability, and resilience of natural ecosystems.” Now if that sounds a little too New Agey for you, think of it as William McDonough’s Cradle-to-Cradle concept, but applied to food. In nature there is no waste, the end life of one entity provides the the beginning for another. Think of it as Biomimicry for food. Watch and learn how nature makes food, and design a system to replicate that. But Permaculture is much older than either of those two esteemed concepts. It was developed in the 1970's by Bill Mollison and David Holmgren on the southern Australian island state of Tasmania. They created a technique of farming that duplicates natural relationships and patterns. They discovered that the most productive land is at the edge of two ecosystems, such as riverbanks, coasts, where forests meet grasslands, etc.
Their design sets out to create different agricultural ‘zones’, so that many productive edges are formed. But permaculture in imitating the complexity of natural systems, right down to how night air moves, defies simple explanation. So one way to get a sense of its effectiveness is to watch a little online movie, in which permaculture designer, Geoff Lawton, converts 10 acres of Jordanian desert into a lush productive garden. See how in just four months he was able to train local farmers to cultivate fruiting figs, pomegranates and guavas from what was once considered a salt riddled wasteland. If that inspires you, check the ::Permaculture Research Institute for design courses around the world. Another list of current courses in North America and elsewhere can also be found at Permaculture.net.
Invigorating success! Does anyone know of college internship programs that allow people to contribute to this kind of initiative? -Michael
I loved the flash movie link it was very inspirational. Please keep posting more about Permaculture.
As a permaculturist I can say that the name 'permaculture' as a contraction of 'permanent agriculture' is actually quite misleading!, although that was how it was originally conceived and defined. However for a long time now permaculture has been about much more than agriculture, rather about human settlements in general. It's scope includes almost everything including economics, health, buildings, tools, conflict resolution, and so on.
Furthermore, permaculture is more commonly being seen as not about 'permanence' at all. Why? It will be decades or centuries before post-industiral cultures achieve anything like a stable 'sustainability'. And permaculture is about that process -- moving down the downslope of peak oil -- rather than the end result. David Holmgren explicitly defines it that way.
These two aspects of permaculture (a less misleading name might be 'transition-culture') make it very different to mainstream notions of 'sustainability'.
i think that in so far as we are successful in dealing with oil peak and climate change, permaculture will move towards the cultural mainstream, whether by that name, another name, or no name at all!
Thanks Adam for adding the extra insight. As we haven't done much on permaculture, I was trying to start relatively simple, for those readers who might be encountering the concept for the first time.
Very cool. The flash animation is very interesting.
Permaculture is a low-input low-output system and the greater output idea from permanent diverse planting is not proven. Works best in tropical and sub-tropical areas with rich soil. Organic principles are what we used to do before oil anyway. Compared to high-input high-output systems (normal agriculture) is is less destructive but economically unable to compete in the larger frame unless subsidised by well-meaning ne'er-do-wells (like myself).
If your soil is poor then you have to mine lotsa good organic matter from somewhere else anyway.
Holmgren's original attempt in the Liffey Valley in northern Tasmania, I understand, is mostly overgrown and food for possums, but it might be rebuilt now. (Much easier to do permaculture in northern NSW.)
I live in Hobart, Tasmania.
John Robin who lived in the Liffey Valley at the time, has been a vocal critic of the system for its (now meliorated in the text books) uncaring attitude to introducing weeds to native environments. Certainly the permaculturists I knew in the eighties had this war with Quarantine in illegally importing all sorts of 'good and amazing' plants for their permaculture experiements with nary a thought as to their impact in the wild. Call themselves green?
Its a twenty-year committment, and you can't do anything else.
Good to see some instituions try and carry it through the generatioins but in the present oil economy its always goign to be completely marginal, can't support the millions our oil economies can. I understand one in three fixed nitrogen atoms is now the result of industrial processes which are mostly powered by fossil fuels. Without fossil fuels that means one in three of us would not be here.
"If your soil is poor then you have to mine lotsa good organic matter from somewhere else anyway."
But agricultural waste that would otherwise be burned can be used, no?
I think the main benefits of this was to re-green deserts, provide *some* local food and help slow erosion, not to compete with high-output industrial agriculture.
As for Growing food in poor soil I think you should look to Dan Dagget and his recent book entitled, "Gardeners of Eden: Our Importance to Nature". There he describes a method of restoring the richness of soil but using cattle, hay, and native seeds. Quite interesting and has worked to restore degraded sites time and time again.
Also, I believe that Toby Hemenway was also an originator of Permaculture. Perhaps I am wrong?
yes but in the rangelands of australis hard hooves (goat, sheep, cattle) on the ancient soils are bad and sustainable use should focus on kangaroos and appropriate fire regimes, elsewhere it might be fine
Geoff Lawton is currently back in Jordan working on a new project to establish an education centre and office for the newly formed NGO Permaculture Jordan. Donations for the project would be greatly appreciated. You can contact Geoff through the website above or, failing that, contact me at dbarnes(at)ecoedge.ca and I will contact Geoff.
As an aside, Jeremy, Toby Hemenway was not an originator of permaculture. The idea first started swimming in Bill Mollison's head in 1959 and Bill was building systems in the 70s. It started with Bill and the first permaculture publication was Permaculture One by Bill Mollison and David Holmgren in 1978.
I'm not a fan of permaculture, it is a form of survivalism.
They expect the world to be plunged back into the dark ages and are trying to become self-sufficient.
It is helpful in developing countries where people are trying to feed themselves, but in the developed world who has time to spend a couple of hours in the vege garden each day.
The stuff they talk about only needing to plan and pick is just silly. Ask the next pc person you meet how much food they produce from how many hours.
David Holmgren, 'the deepest thinker in PC', thinks wood is the fuel source of the future. I think there are many better options than wood.
David thinks that if you have any hope that civilization as we know it will continue, then you are indulging in a 'techno fantasy'. He seems to be firmly of the view that there is no hope for the world as we know it.
If climate change and peak oil didn't exist, they would have to invent it. Fear is good for their business, which is running courses.
There is talk of 'broadacre permaculture', but I have never seen any real world examples of it.
It appears to consist of trees
on fencelines and some alley farming. Not exactly new and exciting stuff.
Don't want to be too negative about it but half the people I have met who spout off about it couldn't grow a tomato to save themselves.
It's just another industry but with not many examples, just a lot of talk which you have to pay for.
Not for me thanks.
If you think that permaculture is a form of survivalism, then you don't either do not know what permaculture is (a design science) or you do not know what survivalism is.
There is nothing written by Mollison or Holmgren or spoken by Lawton or any other permaculturist I know of that suggests that we turn the clock back and 'plunge' ourselves "back into the dark ages..." Nor do they suggest self-sufficience. Indeed, there is an entire chapter in Mollison's Designer's Manual and an entire section taught in Permaculture Design Courses on making connections in communities - the exact opposite of self-sufficiency.
Next, While permaculture is not to be confused with a gardening technique, if you have to spend a few hours each day in your garden, you are a very poor gardener and should focus your energy where you have more talent.
As for Holmgren saying that wood is the fuel of the future, you are simply making things up. He would suggest it as a sustainable back-up heat source in conjunction with passive solar design. But as "the fuel source of the future"? No, you are making things up.
As for Holmgren pointing out that change will occur, this is plain. The world as it is today is not sustainable. In other words, it cannot continue as it is. There just are not the resources for it.
I cannot understand your compulsion to slander permaculture and permaculturists, but your comments make it obvious that you don't know what you are going on about.
Even Mollison doesn’t know permaculture is. He was quoted recently as saying ‘good luck’ when told of someone trying to explain what permaculture is. If he doesn’t know and can’t explain it, I have to go to the books to find out.
I think survivalism is much the same as self-sufficiency, and according to Mollisons permaculture Design Manual (page ix) permaculture is about ‘providing (peoples) food, energy, shelter and other material and non-material needs in a sustainable way’.
Sounds like self-sufficiency, don’t you think?
Holmgren has said that he has lived most of his adult life under the poverty line and that has been sufficient, presumably because of his permaculture garden.
Sounds like self-sufficiency, don’t you think?
Contrary to what you say, Holmgren seems to have written a great deal about the future of civilization. When he says ‘fantasy sources’, is he referring to solar sliver technology, geothermal, clean coal, wave energy, etc, etc?
You say ‘he would’ suggest it etc. You are putting words into his mouth and I quote, or at least paraphrase to the best of my understanding, his words and you say I am making it up!
‘In Santa Barbara last August, David Holmgren (co-founder of Permaculture concept) drew an energy curve (based on page xxix of his book Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability), showing energy use and population climbing at a steep rate from about the year 1500 to now. In his book, he then shows a steep crash. But in the Santa Barbara lecture, David Holmgren explained how in departing from this crest there really are 4 options. One he described as the “techno-fantasy” - what I think of as the Star Wars / Star Trek future - with energy consumption (from fantasy sources) continuing to rise steeply from here into the future.
The second option he called “green-tech stability” which is what many mainstream environmentalists visualize, which would basically be a plateau at our current rate of energy consumption. Man-made machines and contraptions would be the saving grace - hydrogen cars, solar panels, etc. Holmgren described this as “least likely”. Realize that this scenario attempts to merely substitute “green” tech for our conventional, with the ultimate goal being to perpetuate our current (extreme) level of consumption.
In another option he described the massive crash, which begins with the techno fantasy, then crumbles into chaos, with very little salvaged out of global civilization. This is the version the survivalists are banking on.
The last option he called “earth stewardship.” The future well-being of people will depend upon a renewable resource base (water, soil), with less and less energy required as we move into future generations. Permaculture would be the “technology” for this descent culture - a gentle decline “like a balloon.” He said the symbol of this solar age would be a tree (Permaculture) rather than a solar panel (green stability version).
Only through reaching out to others, and bringing along the entire broader community, can we hope to achieve the “earth stewardship” scenario. In order for “earth stewardship” to work, we must find a Place for all within the framework.’
http://legacyla.net/transformation/?p=48
In regards to wood being the fuel source of the future, he has this to say.
‘David Holmgren says that carefully managed forestry is the most viable source of biofuels. ‘Cellulose from existing and regenerated forests, managed on long rotations for multiple values, represents the most sustainable biofuel option — and also the best net energy return on energy invested, mainly because no fertilisers are needed to grow forest trees,’ he says.’
http://www.energybulletin.net/20171.html
http://www.holmgren.com.au/DLFiles/PDFs/SolarProgressArticle.pdf
I am not making it up.
I think we need to get away from internal combustion engines completely. New cars powered by electricity are the way it will go IMO, excuse me for indulging in a techno fantasy.
As you say there is an entire chapter in Mollison's Designer's Manual and an entire section taught in Permaculture Design Courses on making connections in communities, although Holmgren is now teaching courses that don’t cover those topics.
These are some of the topics he teaches in a current Australian course - Permaculture ethics and principles, energy laws, ecosystems as models, fuel futures, CSA, soils, reading the landscapes, climates and microclimates, earthworks, map literacy, water harvesting, contour modelling, Keyline design, surveying, design methods, shelter systems, broadacre design, aquaculture, building design, family culture, personal and household strategies, community strategies, garden methods, animals, forestry, pastures.
Most of these are connected with gardening of some kind.
The students in this course are unable, legally, to teach permaculture or use the word permaculture in a business because of Mollison's permaculture bureaucracy protecting its trademark. Not that the students are told that.
If you want to defend the permaculture industry then how about some examples of something, anything?
No wait, it’s a ‘design science’, examples not needed apparently.
I may be a ‘very poor gardener’ but I am happy to grow some of my own vegies and look after my two dozen fruit and nut trees. You misunderstood me if you thought I was complaining about the time I spend in the garden. I repeat my observation that most permaculture people I have met do not grow much, if any, of their own food. As for focussing my energy where I have ‘more’ talent, I think you are very rude.
You say nothing of the weed issue, even though Holmgren has been involved in a campaigning to keep exotic trees near rivers, against current ecological knowledge.
You accuse me of libel (slander is spoken defamation). Who am I defaming?
Who have I misquoted? I give my opinion and my personal observations and you call me a very poor gardener (because my gardening methods aren’t as good as yours, I must be a fool?) and a liar.
Perhaps you need to do a course or some reading about permaculture instead of giving these ill informed comments about a subject of which you apparently know nothing.
If you are the face of permaculture then again I say, not for me thanks.
BTW, how much food do you produce from how many hours?
Even Mollison doesn’t know permaculture is. He was quoted recently as saying ‘good luck’ when told of someone trying to explain what permaculture is. If he doesn’t know and can’t explain it, I have to go to the books to find out.
I think survivalism is much the same as self-sufficiency, and according to Mollisons permaculture Design Manual (page ix) permaculture is about ‘providing (peoples) food, energy, shelter and other material and non-material needs in a sustainable way’.
Sounds like self-sufficiency, don’t you think?
Holmgren has said that he has lived most of his adult life under the poverty line and that has been sufficient, presumably because of his permaculture garden.
Sounds like self-sufficiency, don’t you think?
Contrary to what you say, Holmgren seems to have written a great deal about the future of civilization. When he says ‘fantasy sources’, is he referring to solar sliver technology, geothermal, clean coal, wave energy, etc, etc?
You say ‘he would’ suggest it etc. You are putting words into his mouth and I quote, or at least paraphrase to the best of my understanding, his words and you say I am making it up!
‘In Santa Barbara last August, David Holmgren (co-founder of Permaculture concept) drew an energy curve (based on page xxix of his book Permaculture: Principles and Pathways Beyond Sustainability), showing energy use and population climbing at a steep rate from about the year 1500 to now. In his book, he then shows a steep crash. But in the Santa Barbara lecture, David Holmgren explained how in departing from this crest there really are 4 options. One he described as the “techno-fantasy” - what I think of as the Star Wars / Star Trek future - with energy consumption (from fantasy sources) continuing to rise steeply from here into the future.
The second option he called “green-tech stability” which is what many mainstream environmentalists visualize, which would basically be a plateau at our current rate of energy consumption. Man-made machines and contraptions would be the saving grace - hydrogen cars, solar panels, etc. Holmgren described this as “least likely”. Realize that this scenario attempts to merely substitute “green” tech for our conventional, with the ultimate goal being to perpetuate our current (extreme) level of consumption.
In another option he described the massive crash, which begins with the techno fantasy, then crumbles into chaos, with very little salvaged out of global civilization. This is the version the survivalists are banking on.
The last option he called “earth stewardship.” The future well-being of people will depend upon a renewable resource base (water, soil), with less and less energy required as we move into future generations. Permaculture would be the “technology” for this descent culture - a gentle decline “like a balloon.” He said the symbol of this solar age would be a tree (Permaculture) rather than a solar panel (green stability version).
Only through reaching out to others, and bringing along the entire broader community, can we hope to achieve the “earth stewardship” scenario. In order for “earth stewardship” to work, we must find a Place for all within the framework.’
http://legacyla.net/transformation/?p=48
In regards to wood being the fuel source of the future, he has this to say.
‘David Holmgren says that carefully managed forestry is the most viable source of biofuels. ‘Cellulose from existing and regenerated forests, managed on long rotations for multiple values, represents the most sustainable biofuel option — and also the best net energy return on energy invested, mainly because no fertilisers are needed to grow forest trees,’ he says.’
http://www.energybulletin.net/20171.html
http://www.holmgren.com.au/DLFiles/PDFs/SolarProgressArticle.pdf
I am not making it up.
I think we need to get away from internal combustion engines completely. New cars powered by electricity are the way it will go IMO, excuse me for indulging in a techno fantasy.
As you say there is an entire chapter in Mollison's Designer's Manual and an entire section taught in Permaculture Design Courses on making connections in communities, although Holmgren is now teaching courses that don’t cover those topics.
These are some of the topics he teaches in a current Australian course - Permaculture ethics and principles, energy laws, ecosystems as models, fuel futures, CSA, soils, reading the landscapes, climates and microclimates, earthworks, map literacy, water harvesting, contour modelling, Keyline design, surveying, design methods, shelter systems, broadacre design, aquaculture, building design, family culture, personal and household strategies, community strategies, garden methods, animals, forestry, pastures.
Most of these are connected with gardening of some kind.
The students in this course are unable, legally, to teach permaculture or use the word permaculture in a business because of Mollison's permaculture bureaucracy protecting its trademark. Not that the students are told that.
If you want to defend the permaculture industry then how about some examples of something, anything?
No wait, it’s a ‘design science’, examples not needed apparently.
I may be a ‘very poor gardener’ but I am happy to grow some of my own vegies and look after my two dozen fruit and nut trees. You misunderstood me if you thought I was complaining about the time I spend in the garden. I repeat my observation that most permaculture people I have met do not grow much, if any, of their own food. As for focussing my energy where I have ‘more’ talent, I think you are very rude.
You say nothing of the weed issue, even though Holmgren has been involved in a campaigning to keep exotic trees near rivers, against current ecological knowledge.
You accuse me of libel (slander is spoken defamation). Who am I defaming?
Who have I misquoted? I give my opinion and my personal observations and you call me a very poor gardener (because my gardening methods aren’t as good as yours, I must be a fool?) and a liar.
Perhaps you need to do a course or some reading about permaculture instead of giving these ill informed comments about a subject of which you apparently know nothing.
If you are the face of permaculture then again I say, not for me thanks.
BTW, how much food do you produce from how many hours?
First things first, let’s get something out of the way regarding what I said. I said, “if you have to spend a few hours each day in your garden, you are a very poor gardener and should focus your energy where you have more talent.” This is not an accusation, it is a conditional sentence. If there is any confusion, consult a textbook on English grammar.
Next, I did say you were making things up about what Holmgren said about wood. Sorry if that offended you. And you have provided nothing showing that he has called wood anything like “the fuel source of the future”. Saying that it is the most viable source of biofuel is a rather uncontroversial statement about biofuels. But is mentioning wood as a potentially renewable heating fuel, the same thing as calling it “the fuel source of the future”? It doesn’t seem that way to me.
Next, on to the issue of self-sufficiency, which is what this is really all about. I can understand your distaste for self-sufficiency. What a terrible lot of drudgery it would be! Bill Mollison thinks so too. This is why he has said “self-sufficiency is almost impossibly hard work, so you won’t find those words in my book,” [Interview with Scott London on Insight and Outlook] and “I think that total personal self-sufficiency is an extraordinarily stupid approach to existence. We all need one another – as individuals and as groups – to set up functional interconnections.” [Plowboy interview, 1980]
Sounds like self-sufficiency, you ask,? No, I don’t think so.
As for what the Manual says, it says nothing on page ix (or anywhere else) about self-sufficiency. The world today (mostly) provides people’s “food, energy, shelter, and other material and non-material needs.” Does this make the world today a system of “self-sufficiency” with everyone out there taking care of all their needs on their own? No. There is nothing inherent about doing the same thing “in a sustainable way” that suddenly makes it self-sufficiency. So again, no, it does not sound like self-sufficiency.
And living below the poverty line but managing to suffice is not “self-sufficiency” or survivalism. If you are equating Holmgren describing his lifestyle as sufficient with self-sufficiency, you are making a fallacy of linguistic confusion.
If one wants to have a go at self-sufficient homesteading, that’s fine. But I’d have to agree with Bill that it’s an extraordinarily stupid approach. It’s also not permaculture, as it does not involve community interaction.
Your desire for an electric car is neither here nor there, and is irrelevant as to whether permaculture teaches self-sufficiency.
As for libel vs. slander, yes, yes, I saw Spiderman, too. Replace my choice of words with “badmouth,” if you insist. You have made your point that you do not like permaculture. I cannot argue with that. You have not made the point that it promotes self-sufficiency.
As for what permaculture is, look to the manual, page ix again, if you want a definition: “Permaculture is a design system of assembling conceptual, material, and strategic components in a pattern…” Or look to the one in Introduction to Permaculture: “Permaculture is a design system for creating sustainable human environments.” But don’t try to take what a fatigued man in he seventies said as he was off to his tea break to recover from 2 hours of teaching as some kind of evidence of anything, because I happened to be there at the time. The “good luck” comment you referred to was made after a definition was made in class, and while Bill wanted to take a break.
You say I say nothing of the weed issue. That is because it is in no way relevant to your first post or my response. It is a shifting goal post. Stay on topic, please. If you can defend your original claim, defend it, but throwing everything you can think of out there and hoping it’s relevant isn’t helping much.
Next, the accusation that I know nothing of permaculture is easy to make. Backing it up is another thing. I am not the one who thought that it taught self-sufficiency despite Mollison describing self-sufficiency as “extraordinarily stupid” and “almost impossibly hard work,” and despite the Manual and permaculture design courses teaching otherwise. And I seem to be the only one out of the two of us who believes permaculture teachers and writers (particularly Bill Mollison) who define it as a design system or design science. [If not, why the ‘quotes’ around “design science” in your last post?]
On that note, I seem to be the only one of the two of us to look at the article on this page that points out the system Geoff Lawton helped design in Jordan. If that system doesn’t count as an example of permaculture for some strange reason, there is Joe Polaischer’s farm in Matakana, New Zealand, or Nadia Lawton’s family home in Jordan, or the Northy Street City Farm in Brisbane, or the Permaculture Research Institute at the Channon or Tagari Farms in New South Wales.
One last thing, not that it’s relevant, but I was able to produce more herbs than I could consume, more tomatoes than I could consume, more radishes than I could consume, more chicory than I could consume, and more squash than I could consume as well as establish some perennial plants for next year in a shaded garden in USDA zone 5 at a house I was staying at in Toronto this year. I spend about a week tracking down the inputs (mulch, soil amendments, seeds, etc) and another 3 days replacing the lawn with garden, and a day of planting altogether. Other than that, I put about 3 hours in over the summer for everything else including harvesting. Again, not that it’s relevant.
The topic is pc and since it seems to cover just about everything, how can I not be on topic?
I didn’t know you were a pc designer, that explains a lot, you have to promote your business, fair enough. In regards to your vegetable food output, in Australia we give radish seeds to school children to plant because they are so easy to grow. Squash? Two plants is plenty to supply me with all I can eat. Herbs? I use them for flavouring and I too have more than enough. You say this and yet I know of one pc designer in Australia who lies about their vegetable garden and how much they produce, so while I accept you are telling the truth, I have had experience otherwise.
pc a design science? all the articles on this site and all the examples you give have to do with gardening, and you still say it’s not self-sufficiency? Are there any examples of this design science not related to gardening or agriculture? I refer again to page ix of the PC Design Manual: ‘people could make a living’ from the land, but this was not the ‘primary aim of pc, which seeks first to stabilise and care for land, then to serve household regional and local needs and only thereafter to produce a surplus for sale or exchange’ and you still say it’s not self-sufficiency.
Even the concept of zones in pc affirm it with zone 5 being the last from the house or village, which is the wilderness; if you’re surrounded by wilderness you’d better have some good self-sufficiency going on.
When I realised you were a pc designer I had a look at your site and under ‘what is pc’ you talk about ‘providing safe water systems on tropical atolls’ and you have a photo of a rainwater tank, a rainwater tank? That’s your design science? I’ll have to tell my old aunt that she’s a pc designer because she’s just had one installed.
And then ‘providing drought-free lands and reversing desertification’, you have a photo of a dry dam and a highway retarding basin. Not sure how a dry dam is going to reverse the desertification of land but those rip lines you have (I assume it’s your design) ripping across the flow of water? When a rain comes the water will really rip into those lines and erode the whole bottom of that intake and fill up the dam with the soil, bad idea.
Drought proofing? Come to Australia, you’ll make a fortune, or if you don’t care about money put your ideas on the net so everyone can see how good pc is and we can all spread the word. If there is someone in Australia doing drought proofing and broad acre pc design, would there be any before and after photos of the places, or testimonials, or some hard evidence or something? Anything apart from advertising material?
Regarding Holmgren ‘fuel of the future’ comment, I did paraphrase him, but if he’s saying wood is what we’ll be cooking and heating with and methanol made from wood is what we’ll run engines with, well it sounds like wood is the fuel of the future to him, don’t you think?
And I didn’t say anyone suggested we should plunge ourselves into the dark ages, but Holmgren thinks we will use less energy as the years go by. So this year we’ll turn off the fridge, next year the washing machine, the year after that, the lights? Sounds like the dark ages to me.
Not sure what you mean by your Spiderman remark, I haven’t seen the comic for years, not since I was a child actually.
You say Bill has been building systems for 30 years? Where are they? What are they? Are they all agricultural systems? According to you they must be producing a whole heap of food, fibre and fuel. (Sounds like self-sufficiency). Don’t you people want to learn from the past, maybe see what worked well and what didn’t? There must be some mistakes in the early designs; if you don’t know what they are, you must be repeating them. Like Holmgren’s cool cupboard, which he has decided is not worthwhile (Why would you want moist air in your pantry?), how many people are still promoting that idea?
Or are you so sure of your designs that you don’t need to review what you’ve done? OK, can we see some photos of these 30-year-old designs?
I don’t have time for your games (and I don’t appreciate the disrespectful comments you left on my site, "concerned citizen.") As such, I'll be as brief as possible.
Regarding "all the articles on this site and all the examples [I] give," your argument here is a fallacy of composition.
Regarding your aunt, this is another fallacy of composition (which contradicts the statement you made about "all [my] examples")..
Regarding zones, they are a concept. Neither the Manual nor permaculture courses suggest that a site be "surrounded by wilderness". You need to look at pages 49 to 53 in the Manual. Do that and you'll see you are mistaken.
Regarding the "dry dam," it is perfectly clear that it is a dam that has just been completed. Had I provided a link to one that was full, my bet is that you would have found some other criteria to make that photo unacceptable. You are being facetious and wasting my time.
Regarding ripping the soil on contour, you say what was done would "fill up the dam with the soil"? What on earth are you talking about? Do you see a dam in that picture? You're commenting on things that aren’t there. As for dams silting up, I suggest you read Water for Every Farm and The Challenge of Landscape by P. A. Yeomans or perhaps a manual on earthen dam building.
(By the way, how can there be a picture of a dam or of ripping if "all the examples [I] give have to do with gardening"? One of the great mysteries, I guess.)
As for going to Australia to make a fortune by proving something, Tagari Farms already exists and has stayed green for years and weathered droughts that have severely affected the neighbouring farms. Then there is the Yeomans Keyline system with has been working for half a century. You want to make money in this? Maybe Ken Yeomans will give you a course. Me? I’m not going to spend my time convincing Australian immigration to let me live in country I don’t want to live in. I happen to like where I am.
Regarding Holmgren, yes, you did paraphrase and took him out of context I think.
As for what Bill has built, scroll up, look in the Manual, and/or contact Tagari or the Permaculture Research Institute.
As for the "self-sufficiency" shtick yet again, fallacy of composition.
As for learning from others mistakes, I do when I can. But I don’t have the finances to go globetrotting to see everyone who has built a system. A friend of mine in Japan was lucky enough to get a grant to visit a number of Australian permaculture farms this year and share what she learnt, but not everyone is so lucky.
As for older designs (not quite 30 years old, twenty perhaps, and I don't know the age of the photo), here's one:
http://permaculture.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/14_aerialbndryoutline.jpg