Is E85 (Ethanol) Just A Red Herring?
by Justin Thomas, Virginia on 07.28.06
James from the Alternative Energy Blog recently wrote an article claiming that ethanol (or, more accurately, E85) is actually a distraction from important technologies like plug-in hybrids and EVs, which actually show promise in reducing CO2 emissions and reducing reliance on oil. He says: "E85 fuel is not the solution. It is not even a part of the solution, it is a part of the problem." He goes on to explain why ethanol will only lead to a continuation of our dependence on oil. The article was inspired by an email exchange with the Engineer Poet. :: Alternative Energy Blog via Auto Blog Green
The National Academy of Sciences recently finished a study comparing ethanol to biodiesel. The New York Times covered it on July 13, 2006. Bottom line: Ethanol was found to produce 25% more energy than used to produce it. Biodiesel yielded 93% more energy than used in its making. Yea Biodiesel!
For the wonky, go to the source: http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/short/103/30/11206
I think it's important not to lump all types of ethanol together. Corn isn't quite the same as cellolosic made from biomass waste.
Actually the guy is missing a few key points. His cartoon is assuming that E85 would be coming from corn-grain ethanol, which no one will dismiss as a poor source for ethanol. One of the best sources for ethanol is a cellulose sources. And his point that we cannot make enough no matter what we do is BS.
People think that ethanol can only come from the mid-west but that is simply no true. The best way to produce E85 and have a small impact on the environment is to create a system where corn is used to feed cows. Cow crap is collected and sent to an on-site refinery. This refinery then takes the majority of cow crap and refines it into ethanol. The remaining cow crap can be used as fertilizer for the corn that is grown to feed the cows.
Sounds great huh, yea to bad no one is doing it. Oh wait, it's already being done in New York state. To help kill our dependence on oil we could easily set up these ethanol refining stations all over the US.
But I will agree with him on one thing, there needs to be more choices at the pump. Auto manufacturers are already producing cars that can accept up to five fuel sources, so to kill our dependence on oil we need to so those five sources available at the pump, and E85 should be one of them. Also electric cars are also important and they need to be created on a large scale.
Cow manure makes methane. All I could find was that they used cow manure to power the ethanol plant, not make ethanol. And we cannot make large scale cellulose yet, the manufactureing just isn't there yet.
Jilted,
When you wrote "we cannot make large scale cellulose yet, the manufactureing just isn't there yet" --
Did you mean that:
1) the facilities (physical infastructure) are not currently available
OR;
2) there are no viable large scale cellose processes currently available?
Ethanol and biodiesel are both energy losers. That is, it takes more energy to produce it than it provides.
The 25 and 93 percent gains are pure bunk.
Right, my bad. But the idea is still a good one because you can set up small stations all over the US. As I said, I do not wish to see the US go solely to ethanol, but E85 should still be an option for people at the pump. Having multiple choices will not only help to eliminate our addiction, but it will create a steady price of all fuels, once the price of them even out due to competition.
Krpan,
Got proof they are bunk?
I'm asking because the research that produced the data on the bio-deisel and ethonal gains seem to be scientifically viable.
Commercial grades of methanol are produced by converting methane to methanol in a modern chemical process. Just substitute an OH- group for one of the hydrogens on the CH4 molecule and its done. Note: historically, wood was distilled to produce methanol (commonly called "wood alcohol") and a bunch of other nasties. Those blue flames you see at the end of a log are from methane being distilled out of the wood!
It is also possible, but would be much less efficient, to convert methane to ethane, and then convert it to ethanol. Where there is a will there is a chemical process.
TrollPatrol - it's not really that they're bunk, but that they're theoretical. I haven't read the study, but I assume it also ignores the energy use of the people necessary to do the work.
All the land used to grow corn and cellulose could be used for wild ecosystems of forest and grassland - providing habitat and storing carbon. I wonder this fact has been considered when evaluating alternative fuels?
MIT seems to think its more than a distraction
http://trye85.com/content/view/21/2/
I think that Alternative Fuels need to be challenged because that is a major way to get them improved. America has to get away from fossil fuels and organizations like OPEC.
Corn ethanol is currently not much of a benefit due to the cost of producing and the lower energy derived. Sugar cane ethanol is a better choice and even better ( or at least it should be in the near future) is cellulosic ethanol.
Biodiesel has a lot of potential - fuel from Chicken Fat for example is a great way to use a current waste product and recycle it into a usable product such as fuel.
The short of it is that we have to wean America off of fossil fuels!
fIRST OF ALL WE ALL TALK ABOUT ALTERATIVES. NO ONE HIGH UP WANT THAT. THE OIL COMPANYS OWN US ALL. THEY WILL DO ANY THING TO KEEP US DEPENDANT ON OIL. JUST AS A CRACK DEALER WANTS TO YOU DEPENDANT ON HIS DRUG. MONEY!!!. i HAVE NOT SEEN THE MOVIE KILL THE ELECTRIC CAR, BUT HAVE HEARD ALOT ABOUT IT. THIS MOVIE WILL TELL US ALL WE ARE JUST GASPPING FOR AIR.