The World's First "Magnetic Levitation" Wind Turbines Unveiled in China

Deceptive picture, there. The article says nothing about cryogenic cooling of the magnetic, which would require a great deal of electricity to achieve and would definitely exceed the efficiency gain of the frictionless coupling and probably exceed the output of the wind turbine all together.

I would guess that the permanent magnet system they are using is simliar to the one developed at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories in the mid-90's (which was pretty neat because it incorporated a method called a Halbach Array to maximize the downward flux lines and increase magnetic repulsive forces). It will be very interesting to see if this draws the attention of Dr. Post and his team for potential revitalization of the technology.

I'm guessing that the picture is just a stock photo used for this article. The cryogenic cooling is used for superconductors, not normal permanent magnets.

Since they only mention permanent magnets and maglev technology, and not superconductors, I'm sure that cryogenic cooling isn't necesary.

In fact, I was actually thinking about a design similar to this myself a while back. remember those vertical wind turbines that were on here a while back? well, I remember reading that they couple to a gearing system in order to drive the generator that's attached to them, but during high wind speeds they actually de-couple from the system for some reason (I would imagine to avoid burning out the gears).

my thought was, you've got this thing spinning really fast anyways, why not arrange a series of permanent magnets in the bottom portion of the wind blades/vanes, and then a series of stationary coils in the generator base. so, while the turbing is decoupled from the gearing and not actually turning the generator, you're still making electricity from the high speed winds.

am I missing something?

Permanent magnet based mag-lev uses no energy IF THE ITEM DOESN'T MOVE. As soon as the magnetized item starts moving, it induces eddy currents in all the conductive material surrounding it, which gives it resistance, and the energy lost to this resistance creates heat. However, it does eliminate physical friction with anything but the air.

My suspicion is that they are using Halbach arrays and coils of wire to induce the levitation. Halbach arrays push all the magnetic flux to one side, and that increased flux induces a repelling magnetic field from coils situated nearby, causing levitation WHEN THE ITEM MOVES, and only when the item to be suspended moves above a basic threshold. In any case, I suppose the levitation is still over break-even when compared to regular contact bearings.

20% more efficient, 50% less costly, 1.5 meter/second.. Wow. If it's true, it's huge news!

Berkana, what you say is very true--the flux lines that permeate the wire coils require zero energy when nothing is in motion. Some things to consider about this arrangement:

NdFeB Magnets, widely accepted as one of the two most powerful permanent magnets, require rare-earth material to manufacture (read limited resource) and are commonly used in computer hard drives, a large competing market (read price war--though flash technology may ease this burden). NdFeB magnets also easily corrode, are highly brittle, and are VERY difficult to arrange in a Halbach array once the magnets start getting large.

Too, the theoretical limit of efficiency in a Halbach array increases as the polarity angle in decreased; this requires a large array size, so instead of the minimum of 5 magnets for a simple Halbach array you have to increase to something on the order of 11 or 13 magnets for the 99.99 efficiency percentile. This results in the flux lines extending further from the source (more repulsive force); at the sime time, however, this increases the start-up resistance to the point that this is no minor force to overcome and will require stronger shafting, heavier gearing, and in general more weight to withstand the higher torques required to overcome the initial startup.

All in all, these are only academic points and I by no means am discrediting the theories. I wrote my dissertation on Maglev transportation employing the Halbach permanent magnet array and still have a passion for the subject.

Good discussion! Thanks all.

WOW

the comments are more informative than the article itself

Thanks all.
.

I can't find any pics of this turbine - do people here think it is perhaps a normal HAWT turbine with a maglev style generator?

"First" is such a lame word. as soon as you use it, you gotta know that there was something before it... and while the scale/design might be different, is it really all that different than magwind in texas?? different enough to be a first even though magwind has been in action for 3 years now?

How does this compare to the Flux Capacitor?

:)

--
editor note: ;P

Found something interesting... seems theres already a maglev style generator on the market not sure what the deal with it is and havent found any reviews yet....

http://www.mag-wind.com/

I've heard that the number provided by mag-wind is physically impossible to achieve in normal city environments.

Also, their generator, while it's quite professional looking, is mechanically simple enough to make yourself at home for

The key to mag-wind is that it's using inductek (permanent magnets in a certain formation) and a very efficient spiral design.

hello
A local builder has had a mag-wind installed on one of their model/demo homes.
Way up here in Canada. Mattamy homes, Milton, Ontario is the place. A company out of the Niagara peninsula has the distrubution rights in Canada and are taking orders. I know I called them to ask a wack of questions. "Niagara wind power" they are on the net.

I walk past the house daily on my way to work.

Victor:))

below are the links to the images I took of the whole set-up (It is a birding web site where I post my images) and yes it is real.

.net/Gallery/albums/album04/newtech2.sized.jpg

ok, so I can't post the images

using a link. Any insights?
(this time I will try the url thingy on top.)

I will give you some more details then. I have a salesman from this company comming to visit on September 6, 2006.
He is going to try to sell me one of these mag-wind 1100 units even though the production facility is not complete. His company will install the unit plus a re-badged "mag-wind" grid tie inverter for $15000.00 Cdn.
The kicker is he wants 1/3 of the price as a downpayment. with no delivery date known.

The unit on that house is not connected to the grid or an inverter (inverter is not ready)Still in tooling stage for rebadging to new name. Is he trying to scare me off? I still havenot seen any real tech specs, or test data. Scam!!!! victor

Victor,
Any updates on the Mag-Wind installation near you?

The picture shows nothing else but similarif not the same as the supercooled superconductor. The mist betrays its reaction to ambient temperature. The same picture as that which depected the technology in its infancy...
Well crafted to easily mascarade as having a 'from China" technology. Is it not Taiwan which has a higher more advanced technology?
Taiwan started its industrialization some 30 years ago. While Mainland China, a decade ago had ita product banned from the worldmarket for its being produced through forced/slave labor.

Hey..

Our salesman came and went. I bluntly told him that if I don't see a unit producing power(as designed) and underload I will not consider it. He could not supply me with a power curve chart. The unit that is installed down the street is spinning pretty well in a high wind situation.
I asked him how it is posssible to calculate power production based on the units rpm. The answer was 160 rpm equals 5kw...
did you guys find my pics??
look for this
outdoorontario net gallery album04. add http, dots and fwd slashes.

Victor

We've had a Mag-wind (Texas) unit on order for several weeks.... still waiting.One scheduled ship date has come and gone.

Still waiting........

So while the technology is reasonable, they seem to be clearly bilking people with it.

With a little DIY, you can save yourself $14,000.

Take a dryer vent (looks kinda like their fan) or any common wind generator.

The trick to this over any other generator is that they're using "halbach arrays" look it up on wikipedia. If you suspend the blades on permanent magnets in a halbach array instead of bearings or oil, you'll reduce the friction hugely, allowing the unit to operate in far less wind. If you do some homework, you'll realize that there's a huge portion of wind power that's lost because you're below or above cut off points.

That's the secret. Let it out.

Any new information on the Mag-Wind item? A PV supplier near me had heard of it so I'm trying to find out more. I confess I'm not encouraged by the comments before.

For some reason, this seems to be the case in every VAWT I've researched. Much as I would like to set one up (the HAWT doesn't work for me) so far is seems like vapourware.

On another note, has anyone seen an intelligent design for a refrigerator? Something that has huge insulation, can use outside freezing temperatures to cool the fridge, doesn't combine the condensor and evaporator in the same unit (so it can move the heat right away from the shell)? I keep thinking that there should be some way to make a custom unit that doesn't have to fit in a 32" hole.

Maybe this is the wrong place to post this other question - I'd be happy to repost in the correct spot.

Long time alternative energy enthusiest form the Mid West here. We have been looking for something like the MagWind to come along for some time. Sound in theory, but not yet proven. I like to be inovative, think outside the box, try new things. I was very excited to give MagWind a chance even though it is not yet proven. There always has to be a start somewhere, somebody has to be first, risk reaps rewards...

We jumped at the chance to buy a couple of them...as did many others from our area (MT, ND, SD). I believe about 10 were sold in our immediate area, some to local business, some to local government (school and such) with downpayments made (we were in for 1/2 of 2 MagWind MW1100s). A number of mainstreet businesses (mine included) were to have MW1100s installed in full view of the public, along with solar arrays. Great PR for us...and especially for Magwind and alternative energy.

The time for delivery came and went....excusses...finally we had enough and contacted some authorities.

Well, long story short, I think a lot of people got took. The dealer we had was taking downpayments when he should not have been. He apparantly WAS NOT following MagWind policy and was acting on his own. My understanding is that no downpayments are to take place, only payment upon instillation of the Magwind turbines. He did not tell us that the turbines were not ready yet, etc... Long story short, the FBI now has him under investigation and he has spent a few months in jail and is looking to spend more time there. Oh, and the money is no where to be found ofcourse...

For us it ment no turbines and ligthtened our pocket book by $15,000. A great project destroyed by green and criminal intent.

This type of stuff makes it hard to be green. We are hoping that MagWind will stand behind this unfortuante event and produce turbines for those who were burned by Larry Suchy since he was an authorized dealer for them...but only time will tell what type of business they are...the pie in the sky company that many think they are or the soild rock foundation company that I hope they are or become. It would speak well for Magwind to correct this situation and repair the damage caused.

If you had any dealings with Larry Suchy (SunBreeze, SolarBreeze, Albaze Technologies) for alternative energy systems you might want to contact the FBI folks investigating this:

FBI Special Agent Sandra Klein phone 406 248 8487 Bill.SLC@ic.fbi.gov

I do want to make clear that I dont believe it was Magwind that did this intentionally. It was a dealer of theirs gone rouge who was out collecting downpayments with no apparant intention of making sure the turbines were delivered and installed. I still want to give MagWind a shot...but now I dont think I can afford to.

I still hope Magwind can make things work and that these types of technologies have a chance to grow, this country needs them, energy independence and save the planet and all...but if it makes sence economically then people will do it. The MW1100 did make sence, even it if only performs at 50% of its claimed capacity...we have very good wind here.

Disspointed, but not giving up. I am very interested in trying to build my own now since the alternative energy budget is now decimated....maybe solar is next. Anybody have any plans available to build a maglev turbine in the garage for a tiny budget...thats all I can afford now...if it wasnt so painfull I could almost laugh.

Even though I like to give new things a chance, from here on out I am not buying any wind power equipment that NREL has not tested to failure.

Think Green, but watch your green as well!

Hey

The mag wind unit that was on the house down the street has magically disappeared.

Victor:))

More vaporware.

Paul Gipe a premire windpower expert with several books, rips the Mag-wind to pieces. He says their calims are an outragous 200+ percent efficient and that the turbine is not much more than a roof ornament.

see his review here:
http://www.wind-works.org/articles/Mag-WindPyramidalPower.html
or google Mag wind paul gipe or wind-works
I found it through house hacker

MagLev is likely making a fake claim. Of all of the fraudulent claims form wind generation, most of them come from vertical access wind turbines (VAWT). The claims are great leaps forward in wind energy, and it has been over a year since they announced and still their web site is not very forthcoming.

I guess I'm not seeing the big innovation here. You have a stick. You put a strong magnet on top of it. You have a cup and you glue a strong magnet inside. Turn the cup upside down and put it on top of the stick. If the poles oppose, you've got magnetic levitation (although a bit wobbly).

I would think you'd want your levitation magnets to be as far away as possible from your generator magnets and coils. I think the person who packages a cheap VAWT kit people make at home on their own like Ikea furniture will reap the billions. A generator is just some wire and some magnets and some sort of spinning motion. All this fancy frills stuff is just a bunch of greedy cosmetics.

An inverter with grid-tie runs about $2K-3K. That's the hard part. The spinning bit shouldn't be that big of a deal! In my head the generator should cost about $1K after a cushy markup. Hmmm... Maybe I should start experimenting.

The photo actually depicts what is known as the Meissner Effect. The magnet is floating above a superconductor (most likely YBCO or some other copper-oxide compound) which must be cooled to extremely low temperatures (around 92 Kelvin or less) with liquid nitrogen in order to restrict the magnet's magnetic field from permeating through it. While liquid nitrogen is relatively cheap compared to other very cold liquids such as liquid helium (also cheaper than beer and milk), I would imagine that the amount of liquid nitrogen they would need and use would drastically raise the cost of energy. You must also consider the energy that would be needed to cool the liquid nitrogen, put it into insulated tanks, and most likely transport it to the wind farm. I would think that exploiting the effects of superconductivity, when considering the extra costs associated with the required coolant, would actually decrease the efficiency of the wind power generators.

The photo actually depicts what is known as the Meissner Effect. The magnet is floating above a superconductor (most likely YBCO or some other copper-oxide compound) which must be cooled to extremely low temperatures (around 92 Kelvin or less) with liquid nitrogen in order to restrict the magnet's magnetic field from permeating through it. While liquid nitrogen is relatively cheap compared to other very cold liquids such as liquid helium (also cheaper than beer and milk), I would imagine that the amount of liquid nitrogen they would need and use would drastically raise the cost of energy. You must also consider the energy that would be needed to cool the liquid nitrogen, put it into insulated tanks, and most likely transport it to the wind farm. I would think that exploiting the effects of superconductivity, when considering the extra costs associated with the required coolant, would actually decrease the efficiency of the wind power generators.

How fast does a wind turbine spin(mph)? And how big are the largest. Also how are windmills going to look in the future, (vertical axis turbine or horizontal turbin). And if so which will be seen across the nation, or at least out west. is there a good place for windmills in N.C besides in Boone!?

HAs anyone heard of the claims by Maglev Wind Turbines? They are making private offerings for a projects that include a 1 Giga watt unit under construction near the Hoover Dam and expect to have in prodcution 1-50vmegawatt units shortly.
Thay are claiming power production costs of less that 1cent per kwh. That propbaly doesn't include capital cost or maintenance.

Aloha

OK so I dont think there is any one here that has seen one of these first hand. How about a dealer?? My name is Micheal Angelo Leone and i live in Hawaii. i am an Architect and run 2 companies. www.HawaiiArchitectural.com and the other is www.HiWindPower.com

Hee is the deal. The Texas company was paid to do beta models and proposed to handle production. but they sucked up all the money and the prototype failed. After some recoop and capital raising we have compnies in makeing the parts.

I have 2 on the way to Hawaii and there are working beta models all over the place, even in Italy.

The ones I have on the way are aluminum 10KW, 14' wide and 8' tall. I am a dealer and i know we are not finished yet with the testing and design. The nex run will be carbom fiber to cut down on weight and to be much stronger.

If any one trys to say they are a dealer or to ask for deposits run. I am a dealer and I am bring these two here to test out a special shape designed for Hawaii winds. Dont give Jim the inventer a hard time! He is working very hard to make this happen, the design is so much better then what we are use to it has taked a long time to work out the bugs. Once you see these things your going to be impressed.

Stop by every week or so to my web site and you can see updated photos and information. I wil be able to post full specs and roof mounting plans when i am finished with my 2 Hawaii installs.

A word to the digers out there, you should be digging the fals dealers that took deposits and ran, they were never dealers with Mag-Wind. I think we are working on a program for any one that can prove they were ripped off for deposits by fake dealers, to offer them systems "at cost" when they are in production.

Mivhael Angelo Leone
www.HiWindPower.com

So.. is the mag-lev succeed..?!

Horizontal wind turbines are larger and hence, more useful in rural areas with open spaces. If you are living in an urban or suburban area, you will want to opt for the vertical wind turbine. In fact, vertical wind turbines were specifically designed to address the unique issues associated with electricity production in urban or suburban settings where horizontal winds become vertical when encountering the face of a building. The helical shaped blades of the vertical wind turbine can make use of horizontal or vertical wind bursts blowing in from any direction.