One Last Kick at the Ethanol Jerrycan

All this fuss over ethanol, and no one seems to be discussing the fact that burning it is still bad for global warming, because of the huge amount of energy used in production. The burning of ethanol is also not pollution free, especially when blended with gas. Until someone comes up with a cheap fuel cell that can run on ethanol it is an environmental red herring.

it takes 3 gallons of water to produce each gallon of ethanol . . .

that's after the water to grow it . . .

Ethanol use seems to have a lasting potential for smaller developing nations. Within a year its likely that ehtanol use can more than double its RES, and cut the island's dependency on oil by 12%

isnt corn derived ethanol especially inneficient as compared to cane derived ethanol as seen in brazil? corn is not the ideal source for biofuel except for the extremly powerful farmer's interest groups.

LA: if you read the Robert Rapier piece you learn that the Brazil story is no miracle at all.

Ethanol is to fuel as Methadone is to Cocaine; it is extending already debilitating addictions. This push is being used with great cynicism in marketing by the corporations to maintain the status quo, and they need to be called on it.

Ethanol is to fuel as Methadone is to Cocaine

I think you mean heroin.

Also often times the added ethanol currently in much of America's fuel makes cars less fuel efficient per gallon, which I think has to mean that it's actually creating more pollution.

This is speaking from experience between fuel with ethanol, and using non-ethanol fuel.

Fueling electric vehicles from renewable energy is a way better plan, and then perhaps we can start having livable cities too while we are at it. And hey they make kits already for converting my car (it's a geo it gets 51+ mpg and when we can afford it will become an electric)

Sounds like it is time to buy stocks in ethanol? I find the third article comment most interesting. But is our problem really that we would be using food that is needed for the poverty-stricken, or simply that we don't give the plenteous food we do have?

Texas does grow corn, enough to rank as the 11th corn-growing state (over 200 million bushels). Most of the corn is used for livestock feed. Texas corn growers have seen the ethanol light and their website is promoting E-10 and E-85.

Yeah I was about to say, I have corn growing all around me here in North Texas. I was pretty sure that Texas wasn't number 1 or anything but there is definitely corn being grown here.

i would like to see governements all over the world to put feeding the hungry top of the agenda, what means enabling them to live from the crops their land produces

what means, to cancel the debts

then to give a certain amount of land to the landless poor for selfsustaining agriculture

and if all this is happening, the land not used for food growing, could be used for growing plants to convert to ethanol ( using cellulosic method ) and or vegetable oil/biodiesel

and with the money saved from investing into petrol, the switch to partly electric vehilcle or plug in hybrid tech or even full electro-cars could be supported
also by tax exempting all investement for renewable energy
just as jamaica did:
http://hugg.com/story/Welcome-to-SolarJam-Rock-1/

the switch to solar energy is welcomed by lots of people:
http://hugg.com/story/Survey-Shows-80-Americans-Embrace-Solar-Power/

perhaps the states manage to put up some water cleaning standards and emission controls for the ethanol plants

and the industry itself listens to the growing number of concerns and acts towards improvement

there are also more efficient ways of transforming crops into ethanol

http://www.hugg.com/story/Researcher-Explores-MesquitetoEthanol/

as i see it, at this stage of change of society, it is important to develop all kind of switching possibilietes, to improve the existing structures and gently switch over to the renewable-harmless energies

and while going gently at it, we give the scientists time to do improvements of tech

Making ethanol from corn is a bit of a waste.

But the point about using food for fuel is a red hearing. There is plenty of food in the world, it just isn't in the right places. The EU and US pay their farmers subsidies that poorer nations can't afford, pricing african and asian farmers out of the market. This is a far bigger problem than using food crops for fuel.

But yeah, corn is shit, switch grass would be a much better crop to use.

I don't think the food/fuel issue is such a red herring - Up til now we have had our food from above ground, and our energy from below ground. If they have to share the same surface area then you would have to prioritise, and something would have to give.

As they said on TheWatt podcast a few weeks ago, yes the US could replicate Brazil and go for Ethanol from sugar beet.....but each American could only drive one day every fortnight.

Sure, there is plenty of food in most places. But not enough wilderness! Lets return the surplus farm land to wilderness instead of using it to grow corn for ethanol or fattening farm animals.

What we need is to make fuel out of a crop that can regenerate quickly, and not require a ton of fuel to harvest, so corn isn't the answer. I think they should look into switch grass, and test the efficiency of growing hemp for oil (that is of course after the US lifts its ban on the hemp agriculture industry).

Sure is funny to read the comments from all the Communists who think "food" is grown so that it can be given to dictators who oppress people, especially women and ethnic and religious minorities.

the Communists

Give the red-baiting crap a rest, will ya?

Your act is tiresome.

so what some of you are suggesting is to abandon the whole ethanol project all together? Face facts, we have a growing need to drive places and that can't be stopped overnight nor can an affordable fuel cell vehicle be invented. This is progress, it is showing that the politicians are showing interest in the environment. I grew up around people running alcohol in their dragsters and hotrods and you could just about suck on the exhaust pipe because it was so clean. It's true that you won't get as many MPG out of ethanol but with a fraction of the pollutants of gasoline and a cheaper price I think it is well worth it.

Another thing most people don't know is that almost any gasoline vehicle can be easily converted to E85 or pure alcohol. It doesn't have to be flex fuel from the factory.
http://www.abcesso.santu.com/

Ethanol is not the answer. Image that the whole world started using Ethanol. 7,000,000,000 people all relying on Ethanol power. That's still too much pollution.

The answer is: Solar, wind, tidal and wave.

Why aren't we using them now. Because people in power say that it costs too much to produce power in this way. Have they never heard of 'economies of scale' ???

Saying that renewable energy costs to much is just the political way of saying "we make too much money through oil"...