Major Toronto Export: Crap

Or combine sewerage plants with methane production facilities? Shit your own fuel out.

In the free market of international turd-wrestling, why is Michigan the reigning dump champion? Lack of other economic opportunity? Saving up a mountain of Canadian excreta to run a methane plant? Done in exchange for letting MI citizens commute to Canada for work?

Banning flushing toliets isn't going to eliminate sludge, and really is a pefect example of a "treehugger" idea and not a "treehugging scientist" idea. It makes far more sense to use economies of scale and treat waste to higher standards at a central location.

With the right program, wastewater can be thought of a resource. The methane produced from anaerobic digestion can fuel the entire process and provide an end product of compost, fertilizer, and soil amendments. It makes ecological sense to reuse sludge on our crop fields.

Also, we don't just dump sludge into rivers, at least not since the Clean Water Act.

Where will the "stuff" will go if it's not processed in some plants somewhere? Anyone know of any highly-populated urban areas that DON'T have sewer systems, and have composting toilets/other in place? Seems like once you've gone to that system, it would be hard hard hard to go to something else without creating new health hazards. But I'm no expert.

Isn't "sludge" just the same thing as you would get out of your composting toilet? Does it really matter if you do it locally with a composting toilet or city-wide at the treatment plant (ignoring the issue of heavy metal contaimination that seems to be a problem)?

You can reuse sludge as fertilizer if it is composted right just like the compost from the composting toilet. Same stuff. Really.

I am not seriously suggesting banning flush toilets. I am trying to make the point about toilets that Peter Singer makes in "The Way We Eat"- if slaughterhouses had glass walls there would be a lot more vegetarians. Similarly if people had to actually deal with their waste of all kinds instead of just flushing it away, we would not have such a cavalier attitude towards it. And, sludge is not allowed on organic farms, for good reason- there are some pretty nasty contaminants.

Well, doinkman, maybe we don't dump sludge *directly* into rivers, but it ends up in our waterways more often than you think. In the Milwaukee urban area, the Milw Metropolitan Sewerage District, the agency responsible for whisking our unsightly bowel movements away, regularly allows overflow to pour directly into Lake Michigan. By regularly, I mean several times a year. They can't seem to create a system that can handle a large volume of waste and storm runoff simultaneously. Many many factors are in play here - too much pavement forcing storm water to flash into the concrete storm sewer system rather than percolate into the ground; antiquated pipe systems; lack of political will to force MMSD to change its approach.

Why not convert it to oil using Thermal Depolymerization?

More info at:thermal depolymerization

What I've found interesting over the past year is that my town of origin, Southgate, keeps on trying to be part of the solution to Toronto's trash and crap problems. Unfortunately, Southgate is quite a wet place, with many of the rivers draining from Lake Huron moving through the area. The Southgate council keeps trying to take on trash and crap, but doesn't want to do it in a way that anybody thinks is safe. Just imagine... T.O.'s trash and crap all sitting on the Southgate water table, draining back down towards Toronto. You'd not only make it, you'd drink it...

Kpod~

There is a huge difference between sludge and raw sewage that overflows in Milwaukee. The overflows in Milwaukee are CSO (Combined Sewer Overflows) which is essentially watered down sewage. Not saying, it doesnt cause immense harm to wildlife and ecology in general, because it does.

The problem and solution in Milwaukee, and many other cities built around the same time, is bigger than you can imagine. I'm currently working on a similiar problem for a different city and it's projected to cost 1-2 BILLION over 25 years to fully solve it. Thats big money.

BTW, this is one treehugging topic I'm actually informed about as I'm an environmental engineer.

doinkman, so if CSOs still cause irreparable damage, why differentiate between them and sludge? If it smells like shit...

MMSD has already spent close to $1.5 billion on infrastructure to try and prevent CSOs, to no avail.

The reason you differentiate is due to the scale of damage to ecology. Raw sludge dumped causes much more damage than just a CSO spill. Sludge is essentially concentrated organics and has very high oxygen uptake rates. It can very quickly "suck" the oxygen out of waterways, killing all aerobic lifeforms and promoting an explosion of growth for nasty anaerobic organisms. CSO's do have an organic load and can cause the above problems, but are much less severe and the water body can much easier recover.

I'm not all that familiar with the efforts that MMSD has undertaken, but with 1.5 billion spent there has to be a reduction in frequency and volume of overflows. CSO's are such a huge problem, is isn't financial possible to ensure no overflows, often that would entail ripping up the entire cities sewer system at the cost of 10's of billions. It's better to get some limited treatment than none at all.

Someone commented:

"Isn't "sludge" just the same thing as you would get out of your composting toilet? Does it really matter if you do it locally with a composting toilet or city-wide at the treatment plant (ignoring the issue of heavy metal contaimination that seems to be a problem)?"

No, it is not the same. The end-result in a composting toilet is compost. Clean, safe compost that can be used in a garden.

In a sense, a compost toilet is its own waste treatment plant. But, each household takes care of its own waste instead of flushing it away to a plant somewhere.

Little or no water is used, thus saving a valuable resource.

Even though I am in the industry, I know that (at this point) composting toilets are not for everyone. Some are still very squeamish to the idea. In fact, it is ironic that some of the worst reactions to the concept of a composting toilet that I have seen at shows, etc. come from States that have limitied resources of water.

But, these things take time...

I think composting toilets are only a niche product. I mean there are some things people are willing to give up in good faith to the environment but handling their own poo is just not one of them. (I know you only handle the compost, but that will be lost in translation to most folks) In contrast, duel flush toilets are a solid design that will work for most people and have a much greater chance for widespread adoption.

If the goal is to save water, one of the biggest changes we should make is to use native plants, especially in arid suburbia. Also, water reuse but that gets to be pretty big infrastructure improvements.

> It makes ecological sense to reuse sludge on our crop fields.

Yes, if it's just residential waste. However Toronto's sludge contains medical and industrial waste as well. Theoretically the medical waste is treated, but the combined sludge still contains unsafe levels of heavy metals, PCBs, and other things you don't want anywhere near your food or cropland. Farmers are limited to applying sludge only once every 5 years so as to not exceed safe limits for heavy metals in the soil, because of this there aren't enough willing farms to safely apply sludge to.

I did my final research project in school on phytoremediation for sewage treatment. As long as the system remains combined the way it is, land application of sludge isn't an ecologically sound way to dispose of it.

Well, as I understand it, a number of cities, including Philadelphia, compost their sludge. It could then be used as fertilizer/compost except for the unfortunate heavy metal contaimination of the waste stream.

If this contaimination could be stopped, it seems to me that the city-wide composting makes more sense than home composting in urban environments.

I am the unhappy owner of and Envirolet Composting Toilet. I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable about compost and this machine will not produce it. Although it is recommended for 2 people full time, this has not worked out. What has resulted is an incredible stink in my house, as decomposition (what little takes place) is strictly of the anaerobic type. Once a layer of feces and peatmoss is laid down, it turns into an impermeable layer on the grid. No amount of raking can break it up. No air can pass. In my dry climate, pulling 6% humidity air through the toilet results in the fecal matter at the top drying out. Great if you want mummified scat, not so good if your goal is "fluffy, dry, compost". In my opinion, and those of many others on the web, this is a downright public health hazard. Talk about your weapon of mass destruction! Thanks for letting me rant!
Erik

With the thousands of Envirolet systems installed every year will come some users that run into issues.

This goes with all composting toilet systems.

Issues or problems are usually due to either:
- improper installation (especially venting)
- improper use
- electrical or component failure

All of these can be remedied quite easily.

Installation issues usually involve the venting system. Our vent should be installed with a straight (vertical) vent. 90s or too many angles will result in condensation of liquid back down the vent. Installation is key with all brands of composting toilet systems. They all work different and therefore install different.

Improper use involves things like not adding the proper additives (ie peat moss, coconut husks, cocoa mulch, sawdust, black soil, compost accelerator, etc.). Or, it can involve adding things that should not be added, like cigarettes, chemicals, etc.

It can also be related to the number of users. Stay within the rated capacity for any system.

Component failure can happen. This can be an electrical item like a fan, thermostat or heater (depending on the model). Failure of any of these will not allow the system to perform as it should. Envirolet has a 5-year warranty (replacement) for any item inside the system. So, if something breaks call us and get it replaced.

Other parts can periodically have issues. We have lots inside, again all covered under warranty, and these can occasionally have issues. Remember, inside a composting toilet is a very very harsh environment.

In the case of the complaint above, I can only say this.

First, Erik should call us toll-free 1-800-387-5126 and speak to a customer service rep. His unit shipped Jan 26, 2006 and we show no record that he called for help/service. If you have any issues, call us right away to remedy them. We cannot help if we do not know something is wrong.

As far as his complaint, it is hard to comment with limited info. But, it sounds like he is running dry. Checking his file, he has a 120VAC electric model. He is in a dry southwest state. I am not sure if he is running the heater or not, but if the system is running dry, then do not run the heater. We have a switch to go from Fans + Heater mode to an energy saving Fans Only mode.

The bottom line is that a dry running system is better than a wet running system. Easier to deal with and in fact, not really an issue at all.

Odor issues are caused by a fan failure. The vent fan (we have 2) to be specific. He needs to replace his fan. Again, they are under warranty for 5-years. But, as you can imagine as they are mechanical parts running 24 hrs/day, they can fail occasionally.

Our system is not designed to give you compost to garden with. There will simply not be that much at the end. Most waste is liquid, this is evaporated.

Again, please call us toll-free for help.

For some happy users, be sure to go to http://enviroletbuzz.com/archives/testimonials/.

More pro-composting toilet points:

1. We use approx. 500L of fresh water per year to flush down 50L of urine and feces - a shameful waste of clean water.

2. Even if community sewage systems treat effluent to high levels of cleanliness, this only removes bacteria, and not the nutrients (such as nitrogen, etc.) that pass through our bodies from the food we eat. This is problematic because 1) the land is being depleted of these key food-growing nutrients, and 2) the oceans are getting over-seeded with these nutrients (and the fertilizers, etc. that wash off the land from agriculture) contributing to massive overgrowths of algae, prehistoric microorganisms, and jelly fish. These organisms produce toxins (including neuro-toxins) that are poisonous to humans and larger sea life.

We have to close the nutrient loop and keep these valuable resources in the land!

Toronto garbage woes

http://torontogarbagedump.com/

http://torontotrash.com/

http://torontogarbagefix.com/

GRRRR!! u shouldn't be dumping in michigans land u should be a shamed of ur self well bye

I don'think that they shouldn't be dumping in michignas lakes well yes i do think they should have a dumping hole to dump things in well thank u fir ur time goodbye

Canada people should not dump trash into Michigan lands

no more dumping in michigan people

byebye for now ulgy people

Hi. can you use waste from your self composting toilete in soil for vegitable garden