Vespa Unveils Hybrid Scooters

Awesome! Now you're talking!

"the hybrid drive train expected to boost power by 25% and reduce gas consumption by 20%."

That's good. It also mean that if they wanted they could make a model that has the same power as the non-hybrid ones but with gas consumption that is reduced by a lot more than 20%.

MGR: True -- but considering the way traffic moves in my small university town (I'm in the USA), being able to kick in a little power from time-to-time can be a real lifesaver.

I'd love one of these hybrid scooters -- but I currently ride a motorcycle with a 500CC engine. I rarely use all of the power that the bike has to offer, but there are occasionally drivers that I just need to make dissapear. When I have a lot of extra power, I can do that -- and, it's possible that has saved my life already. (The big brakes and excellent stopping-traction on my motorcycle certainly have saved me at-least once.)

As American drivers learn to cope with 2-wheeled vehicles, the roads will become safer for motorcycles, bicycles, and scooters. But, there will need to be a lot more of us on the road before the average driver gets a real awareness of non-cars on the road. Fuel prices will make small vehicles more popular, though, but everyone's going to have to learn to think a little more carefully about safety -- and, hopefully, there won't be too many car-runs-over-a-biker accidents. Until then, I'll cover my brakes and be prepared to stand my motorcycle on its front wheel (again) when drivers pull out in front of me (again).

That's awesome. I'm currently looking at a Bejaj Chetak - 1 150cc scooter that gets 110 mpg. Sadly, Bajaj is discontinuing these beauties, and basically whatever the US distributor has in stock is the last of the lot. Vespas are simply out of my price range.

The only two things keeping me from running out and buying the Chetak today are a) I need to get a motorcycle license to legally operate one, and b) I'm worried that once I have a scooter I'll quit bicycling, and that's pretty much the only exercise I get. I've already tried to reduce my car-driving to only the times when its absolutely necessary, and most of those times having a scooter rather than a car wouldn't suffice. So a scooter is likely to either sit in my garage unused, or replace a lot more bicycle miles than car miles.

Erm, it appears that these are dirty stinkin' 2-strokes, which I thought had been banned in the EU.

Last time I heard, a 2-stroke scooter makes more pollution than a dozen cars.

Yup. Two strokes are pretty dirty beasts.
There are some two stroke diesels that use turbo charging to reduce emissions but this would be impracticle on a scooter.

meh. you're not doing the easy rider thing coast to coast on a scooter, you don't need the gas part of that hybri.. And, for $2K you can get this beauty, who's lead acid batteries, while far from perfect are fully recyclable. I've put over 2,000km on an electric scooter and there's always a plug u can find downtown (for now),never ran out of 'gas' and I can tell you this, when you are giving someone a ride on your scooter and its quiet enough to chat while riding... i'd take that over exploding pistons any day.

but good on vespa, A for effort, VECTRIX ROCKS!

As I understood it, the really dirty part about a 2-stroke is that with some of them (weedwackers, chainsaws, some motorcycles) is that you have to mix the oil into the fuel -- and the fuel/oil mixture passes through the crankcase (and provides the lubrication for the crank). It makes for a simple engine with a good power-to-weight ratio, but the other features of the engine aren't so good.

A 2-stroke diesel is a *completely* different beast.

I think what some of you are looking for is the Vectrix scooter, which will be "fine" as soon as they can come up with lighter and more affordable li-ion batteries... hello MIT, time to manufacture some of all that great solid-state nano-stuff you keep announcing, licensing and parking!

I have a 2002 Honda Metropolitan scooter, which I adore.
The 50cc's don't give you that much power, but I feel like it has taught me to be a more careful rider. It gets 75-80 mpg, and for a 20% increase in milage, I just don't think I could shell out the bucks for Vespa. The 25%increase in power would be nice, though!

For those of you interested in a scooter the Spring 2006 issue of Scoot! Magazine has a buyers guide. The Bajaj scooter sold in the US is a four stroke. Aprila sells a model called the Ditech that is a direct injected two stroke that runs clean.
I'm on my third scooter. My current scooter is an Aprilia Scarabeo 500. The engine is a 460cc four stroke single cylinder with fuel injection, water cooling, and a catalytic converter! It gets 60mpg without trying and will blow the doors off of a Prius at about third of it's price. You can go anywhere and do anything on this scooter and it is a blast to ride. I think the Vectrix is a really good idea. It's big enough and fast enough to go anywhere and electricity costs one tenth of what gas costs.
Roll the throttle backward and it accelerates. Roll the thottle forward and it engages the regenerative braking. You use the brake levers very little. That's ingeneous!
My advice is to buy at least a 150cc four stroke. The 50cc scooters are too slow the two stroke versions have got to pollute. Don't forget bicycles. For many trips they are more convenient than ANY motorized vehicle and you'll be getting some excercise too.

It's funny you say this, I have a friend here in Perth who is talking about importing these hybrids, when ready into Perth from the UK. I have set up a blog for the purpose of reporting all my discoveries about scooters as I research in order to purchase. www.scootersnoop.com

Yeah, Anony, I heard the same thing about Diesel 2-strokes. I'm surprised that Europe, which likes diesels and scooters, anyway, wouldn't have put the two together long ago....

BTW: These New Zealand engineers developed a new 2-stroke which they claim can run on diesel, and has almost none of the drawbacks of normal 2-strokes. The design is very different from normal IC engines.
http://www.pivotalengine.com/

Wouldn't a diesel engine be too heavy for a scooter, what with it needing a stronger block etc?

I'm not an engineer or nuthin, but I've read that they now make diesels small and light enough for regular-sized chainsaws. It appears that newer diesels don't have to be any heavier than a gas engine, plus a 2-stroke diesel would surely be much smaller and ligher than a 4-stroke.

o how iwish that the guy who innvented the Aqwon didn't 'die' all of the sudden a year and a half ago.. his solar-electrolyzed hydrogen scooters (with matching solar powered hydrogen electrolizers) rocked even more than Vectrix

((i wish more people did ICE Hydrogen like BMW, i mean what it's been almost 5 years and no huge hydrogen explosion at the airport, so um, can we say its safe yet??)))

Hydrogen ICE is such bullshit.
They need huge tanks to get a small range. Can you imagine riding a scooter with a big tank of compressed gas on it?

thanks for the crass sophism, jim. I'll be sure to count on you when I need facts or a couth orator...

and i wont try to swy you, you seem tobe hardened by your certitude, so good luck! But for anyone who actually want to know, first off; regarless of what James says, you can have strong tanks without making them gargantuan. this is the Aqwon. where is this huge tank??

Then on top of it, you can have ICE with metal hydrides which makes everything more practical. But you don't have to take my word for it, how about the EERE who go to great legnths to describe the (pretty famous in green circles) converted Honda 50cc ((which now runs on ICE Hydrogen)) or maybe you just wanna watch some of the who make hydrogen for ICE vehicles (inclding scooters). Jeeez! Jim, read up before you call Bullshit on stuff. Unless you have some facts to back that up you just sound stupid.

Thanks for the links.
Did you read what it said about the cost of using hydrogen as a fuel in those links?
How much would a lightweight tank cost, considering CF is in short supply and prices look set to rise?
A scooter should be cheap personal transport, a hydrogen powered one would not be.

By the way, don't try to show off using big words when you can't use correct grammar.

dood i dont care to impress u (but was honestly trying to express what i felt from your remark) ANYWAY, $2k a KW isn't so bad for one thats not in production yet, you dont need much more than 4KW for that 50cc experience, so $8K (on the low end) isn't that outlandish. besides right after the price they say "When mass produced, those figures are expected to drop steeply." the very next line.

and while i want one of those, for now (as my first comment suggested) u can get an EVT that looks like a vespa for $2K. so yeah affordable is great (so is the vectrix if/when..)

Most electric scooters are a silly idea. They have low range and low speeds. You might as well get a push bike and get some exercise.

what crawled up and died inside you James?? "Most" 'mosts' are usually unfounded whack criticism with no basis in science or actual markets. and your 'most' up there, is equally LAME.

SO, here's some actual info as opposed to some conjecture with no basis in reality (sorry for the $0.50 word there jim) here's some reality, a real human experience: as i said before up there, I put 2,000 KM on one of these while trying to get them certified for Noerth America (theres' some issues with the turn signals and headlamps) They are street legal in Europe and also used by Bobbies (who would probably knock you on the head with their truncheon for suggesting they switch to a push bike)

like i said i never ran out of electricity (knew where to plug it in downtown for free), I could go up to 60KmH, was in montreal at the time and had no problem climbing up the mountain with a person on the second seat. I also had many meetings at the time where I wore a suit. While i lovemy bicycle and rid it daily, I couldnt attend these meetings sweaty, so my scoot was awesome.

so unless you have some experience with Oxugens, Leptons, a DIY honda retrofit, a Vectrix, an EVT or any other electric scooter. From where exactly, are you basiung your statements and expertise? Cause some people will read teh crap you are writing and take it for face value. You are doing a disservice to the green world by doing that. is that your goal? Again I have to ask, what crawled up and died inside you James??

BTW for the record *most* EScooters I have schecked out usually are around the 50MPH speed and have a range of 45KM, I would like to knwo how many people commute more than 45KM to and from work...

How many people comute more than 45km to and from work?

That's my point you tool, why buy an expensive electric scooter to do a trip that you could do by push bike or public transport.

((keep it above the belt, jimmy))

one ought to not work all day in a hermetically sealed office with no showers, after biking 15km in a suit when it's 75F at 8am. and a 25km bikeride to work, forget about it.

again in my own experience, (co-ordinating a 250K sqft) green real estate project i had to be in offices of the engineers/ architects/ investors/ property managers, and of course on site. often back to back, 12 hours easy. A bike is insane to suggest, $2K over 24 months was actually CHEAPER than a bus pass (cost me pennies to recharge on emnission free* hydro power). And besides, like i said before, on a bike or the bus i can't pick up my date after work, and ride off into the sunset on a smooth silent ride...

..and fwiw i have no clue what a push bike is. whats wrong with pedals.

*there are mercury emissions from large scale hydro andmethan comes from teh trees that are rotting under the fake lakes so its not 100% emission free....

OK, I will admit for certain situations an electric scooter could be good. However I doubt many people who ware suits to work will want to show up on a scooter.

who do you think is spending $6-8K on Vespas? It's people who work in banks, VC firms, pharma research and computer companies. OK, not just suits but a variety of careers where you can't walk in sweaty from a good bike commute.

James, I love biking, and even promote stuff like PedEx (who can move an entire 2 bedoom apartment on bike) but it's not for everything....

oh an incidentally, while putting 2,000 kilcks on my e-scoot i got a number of inquieries from business peers asking if they could purchase one as well (and this was way before $70 barrels of oil). Sadly, like i said, the healdights were EU not DOT and so it couldn't get certified by NHTSA (even though the Bobbies in the UK drive 'em now) so i couldn't sell them to anyone, and eventually the cops found me and my 'experimental plate' and pried the scooter away = (

...but that doesnt mean that they weren't popular, nor that they couldn't perform. And while you can get an EVT for $2K right now, the ones i had in north america were killer performers (and now come in LiIon so the range must rock!)

JB, EC, you're still here?! You're energy is better spent elsewhere. Better to spend it slagging foes, rather than friends ;) You guys are both on the same side, after all.

but carl look at all the progress he's made. no longer trashing stuff-- admitting that there may be a use for them.....

a lot better than being closed

Agreed. You should go wrap up the discussion over some beer and pizza, then formulate a joint business plan for getting better scooters on the market.

I'm aware this may involve some airline tickets, but you'll offset your pollution just by getting a dozen 2-stroke Vespas off the street, and you can deduct the fare as a business expense, once you're both rich scooter-vendors....

These scooters have two stroke engines that emit up to 8 times as much pollution as a car. I have recently purchased an LPG powered scooter in the U.K. It emits low carbon emissions and is super cheap to run and maintain.It also has the same power as a petrol scooter. www.lpgscooters.biz

AFAIK, the Piaggio X8/X9 are 4stroke engines. (Not sure about the "hybrid" tho).

They also feature a catalytic converter, like any car in Europe... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalytic_converter)

Regards,
AC

Just wondering if there is a sight that provides environmental info on emmission for 2 stroke engines. I specifically drive a Kymco People 50cc scooter. Cheers.--Ben

This is the best electric scooter I have found online so far href="http://www.topmotorx.com/zp1500w-2.htm">TopMotorX ZP2000. It appears to have similar power and a range of about 37% compared to a Honda Elite 80. The range of an electric vehicle is not that critical as long as it will make your round trip. (earthchange if my link didn't appear as hypertext could you please explain how you do it)

If these are 2-stroke scooters I guess we won't be seeing them here in Cali. They could be 2-strokes modified to be less polluting, that's possible. In fact I think they'll have to be. If not, they can't export to California and soon the entire USA.

Treehugger do you want to know who vegasfirebird96 is?

Groovygreen.com just did a video preview of the Vectrix Electric Scooter mentioned above. You can check it out here:
http://tinyurl.com/gn6fj

Piaggio (Vespa's parent company) built their first hybrid scooter in the early 90's, the Piaggio Zip+Zip.
50cc 2-stroke for the open road + electric motor for urban riding.

A modern 2-stroke with fuel injection and oil injection using full synthetic oil runs as clean as a 4-stroke of the same displacement and puts out more horsepower. Old Vespas that must be oil mixed by hand pollute like crazy, mostly because the owners don't mix the oil right, they use too much.

Hey Folks , I happen to be a motorcycle , scooter mechanic and noticed a lot of so , so posts here . First and formost "all 2strokes burn much more dirty than a for stroke engine , synthetic oil , or Orbital Engine liscensed injection technology under various names , such as Ditech . Computer controlled variable 2stroke injection and things like sythetic 2 stroke oil sure do help to burn cleaner , but to say with these they run as clean as a four stroke is false . Also 2stroke diesels really have nothing in common with the common 2stroke engine found in motorcycles and lawn type equipment , and yes an actual diesel engine works great and there are a handfull of companies I know of buiding or selling them in motorcycle form , and not all are full production status . They are the Dutch company Star Twin -Thunderstar which uses a Volkswagen TDI motor , also from Holland is EVA's T-800CDI which uses a Mercedes CDI engine , Americas own Hayes Diversified Technologies M1030 models , and Royal Enfield India also sells a diesel motorcycle . There is also one more hybrid scooter Vespa is planning on releasing the LX , X8 , and the MP3 3 wheeled scooter . A company called eCycle has been doing great work in the motor generator field and has built a handfull of electric diesel hybrid motorcycles , but still not ready for production . Also for the fellow looking to buy the Bajaj Cheetak don't be fooled they don't come close to getting 110 MPG , great bikes however . Vectrix in my opinion has just blown a lot of smoke for years , and has only released there 1st bike a week or so ago , and total junk at the price there asking . If anyone is considering buying a conventional scooter , 2 or 4stroke ONLY buy from a QUALITY manufactuer . Anything under $1500 IS TOTAL JUNK with no parts or service available and most are fly by night crap from China . Stick with Guenuine Scooter CO. , Bajaj and careful of there new Argo line Chinese garbage , Honda, Yamaha , TGB , Kymco , Aprilla , Vespa , TNG , LML ,S.Y.M , and there are new Lambrettas coming out which are Chinese junk , someone has bought the rights to the name and badging junk . Sorry so long , but this is what I do for a living , and thoght I would throw some facts your way . I would be glad to answer anyone questions , related to scooters , motorcycles etc, "Green Choices " there is no one perfect scooter , motorcycle , bike , car , etc , you have to weigh your options and needs . Hope this was helpful , always ride and drive safe . Peace

Hey Folks , I happen to be a motorcycle , scooter mechanic and noticed a lot of so , so posts here . First and formost "all 2strokes burn much more dirty than a for stroke engine , synthetic oil , or Orbital Engine liscensed injection technology under various names , such as Ditech . Computer controlled variable 2stroke injection and things like sythetic 2 stroke oil sure do help to burn cleaner , but to say with these they run as clean as a four stroke is false . Also 2stroke diesels really have nothing in common with the common 2stroke engine found in motorcycles and lawn type equipment , and yes an actual diesel engine works great and there are a handfull of companies I know of buiding or selling them in motorcycle form , and not all are full production status . They are the Dutch company Star Twin -Thunderstar which uses a Volkswagen TDI motor , also from Holland is EVA's T-800CDI which uses a Mercedes CDI engine , Americas own Hayes Diversified Technologies M1030 models , and Royal Enfield India also sells a diesel motorcycle . There is also one more hybrid scooter Vespa is planning on releasing the LX , X8 , and the MP3 3 wheeled scooter . A company called eCycle has been doing great work in the motor generator field and has built a handfull of electric diesel hybrid motorcycles , but still not ready for production . Also for the fellow looking to buy the Bajaj Cheetak don't be fooled they don't come close to getting 110 MPG , great bikes however . Vectrix in my opinion has just blown a lot of smoke for years , and has only released there 1st bike a week or so ago , and total junk at the price there asking . If anyone is considering buying a conventional scooter , 2 or 4stroke ONLY buy from a QUALITY manufactuer . Anything under $1500 IS TOTAL JUNK with no parts or service available and most are fly by night crap from China . Stick with Guenuine Scooter CO. , Bajaj and careful of there new Argo line Chinese garbage , Honda, Yamaha , TGB , Kymco , Aprilla , Vespa , TNG , LML ,S.Y.M , and there are new Lambrettas coming out which are Chinese junk , someone has bought the rights to the name and badging junk . Sorry so long , but this is what I do for a living , and thoght I would throw some facts your way . I would be glad to answer anyone questions , related to scooters , motorcycles etc, "Green Choices " there is no one perfect scooter , motorcycle , bike , car , etc , you have to weigh your options and needs . Hope this was helpful , always ride and drive safe . Peace

I live in Nanning China and the first thing I did was buy an Electric scooter. It is a beautiful little work of art. For the city is does fine. Each night I simply drive it in my garage and hook to the charger. It is ready for me the next day. I am good for a round trip to almost everywhere in the city. The problem is not the technology but the fact that the government does not co-operate with Charging stations around the city. If this was done, people would venture out further and It would cut polution in this city drastically. The problem with E-Scooters is RANGE. Many more would be purchased if people could go to work and know they had the range to get home. If I was an employer, I would provide charging stations. This is seldom if "Never" done here. Why? Who knows because it cost pennies. Even if you had a charging meter that took coins such as a parking meter does in the US. By the way, my top of the line 1000 Watt E-Scooter, goes 45 KPH has a 20 mile + range and uses a lead acid battery. About $325 USD in China. It is a beautiful little machine and carries two people with ease. I have heard them called "JunK" on this site. #1 they are so cheap that you can replace one cheaper than you can repair one in the West. # 2 I have Seen some of this "Junk" take their owners 100 K with a battery change about once a year. They are an essential part of the transportation system in a Country where cost is the predominate issue. I love mine and will dish out another $325 next month for another one for my girlfriend and her daughter. Busses are cheap here but you do not have the freedom that you have with a scooter. Read the book. "Bikes of Burden" (Amazon) You will then understand the impotance of two wheel vehicles in Asia. The economy runs on them. Sccoters here have special road lanes and drivers are use to them and their limitations. There are special free Bike/ Scooter parking places everywhere. "It is literally scooter heaven? God bless the scooter !
If you have questions rucksiddall@gmail.com

Will you scooter guys stay out of the bike lane? You're making it quite dangerous for us cyclists.

Thanks.

Oh, and how about making a quieter electric scooter that doesn't make people cringe as you drive by? That would help too....

Thanks again.

Hello everyone! I'm looking into buying a scooter and I want to get the greenest one I can find, so electric is high on my list. I've been looking at http://www.zenbiotic.com/scooter.html
Has anyone heard of this company or the product? It looks pretty nice, way better distance and charge time then other electric scooters I've been looking at.
There's also been talk here about diesel engines. Does anyone know of decent scooters with diesel engines or how easy it would be to change the engine of a scooter to a diesel engine (I imagine pretty difficult...)? I don't know much yet, but I'm learning, so any information would help. Thanks!

I read a great article about this topic called "Scooter Polluter" found here: http://economicefficiency.blogspot.com/2008/08/scooter-polluter.html

It laid out a number of the issues like smog pollution vs. gas consumption and that there are non-EPA certified scooters in the US, so watch out!

In Shanghai, when I was there in January, I was told they had outlawed new scooters and folks could only buy electric bicycles. Too bad they forgot that they have to burn coal to generate that electricity.

I'm going to buy a MP3 500 this spring. Wouldn't that be awesome if they made the MP3 models with hybrid.