Sustain MiniHome: Sustainable Prefab Now.

what about the gas stove top? the metal sinks? the metal track lighting and down lights that are most likely using halogen? the plastic on the fridge. What about the stuffing in the lounge.

sorry to be a downer but, most of them things may be recyclable however, recycling is very energy wastful and there is always significant alaminium losses (being burnt off)

Cheap at $125k? That's $400 a sq ft, or about five times what the most luxurious house costs for the space. It will be "cheap" at a fifth of the price.

LA:
1)focusing on price per square foot is the reason we have McMansions- volume is cheap, it is bathrooms, kitchens and services that cost money. Your average house also does not have its own sources of power and electricity.
2) the track is designed for LED fixtures but they put in halogen for the show to crank the lighting levels.

"LA:
1)focusing on price per square foot is the reason we have McMansions- volume is cheap, it is bathrooms, kitchens and services that cost money. Your average house also does not have its own sources of power and electricity."

You act like focusing on price per square foot is a bad thing. I am admittedly somewhat of a homebody, but sharing a 340 square foot trailer with someone else for long hours seems unbearable to me. And yeah, that 125k$ price point seems way too steep for what you get. Don't look at me like I'm some wasteful guy living in a McMansion. While I don't shop at Wal-Mart, I do like value for money, and I just don't see it here. Housing is relatively inexpensive where I live in the midwest and while I would absolutely love to live in a green pre-fab house someday, I certainly wouldn't go for this. The value just isn't there.

I have to echo that $125K is very expensive. They've designed this for whole-unit transportability, so the main competitor to this would be trailer homes -- not necessarily other prefabs which could be brought in in sections. This limits design choices by making it a thin, long corridor design instead of something more box-like, which might be more usable in terms of space. I certainly wonder who would pay $125K for a structure which have hide-a-beds for sleeping.

I'd also be curious as to how they came up with their energy consumption assumptions -- what kind of climate.

I agree with the comments.
$ 125k is too much for a building that is pretty much like a trailer. As I said, it's the space that matters, not prefab per se.

Hey Ben, what bold, revolutionary steps have you taken to lead us all toward a sustainable future? I'm willing to bet you wrote your post on a plastic and metal computer held together by a myriad of toxic materials. And your chair and desk? Likely not eco friendly and biodegradable or FSC certified.

As for the price there are several things to consider:

- The average condo in Toronto sells for about $300+ per sq. ft and not only are they not portable, they are miles away from sustainable and self-supporting.
- Like all great advances in technology and development, initial prototypes are very expensive until demand increases. You may not remember, but the first home computers ever made cost more than an SUV does today.
- $125,000 is the cost of the fully tricked out version. Like buying a car the base price is lower than this however, I have not been to the show yet so I don't know what the base price is.

I do know that the miniHOME will be available in several different styles, sizes and configurations in the near future. Some styles even have a lovely little loft up top. And by the way, how may of you have a green roof on your house or apartment building? (Kudos if you do!)

I really like this home and I would enjoy living in one. Even at $125k, I find it affordable (by "affordable" I mean "priced such that I could concievably buy it," not "inexpensive") One thing is that it comes furnished with all of the wonderful little doo-dads that I would insist on installing on any home I lived in over the years, so that saves me time and hassle. And here's why I like the size: when I look at this building I cannot say it is at all inefficiently designed, it makes me say "Wow, those 340 sq. ft. effectively provide everything I need...why do I have so much now?" I dunno, I'm ecited about what Sustain is doing and I hope to hear more from them in the future (particularly price drops)

As to ben's entry "recycling is very energy wastful and there is always significant alaminium losses (being burnt off)":

Well I dont know any facts about aluminum burn-off in recycling processes, but I do know that "recycling is very energy wastful" is very far from truthful. Yes it uses energy to recycle a material, in this case aluminum. But contrast that with the energy required to extract and refine raw bauxite into useful aluminum. And recycling may only downcycle a material into a less useful form which will eventually still make it into the dump, as is the case with plastics, but what is the other option? I believe recycling is absolutely essential as it will most likely never be economically feasible for future generations to "mine" our landfills for all the valuable materials we've carelessly discarded throughout our lives.

As to the Sustain MiniHome, true its not the "ideal" sustainable home, but it's pretty darn close. And the price is high do to basic economics; the first five are essentially custom built prototypes. If they were building five hundred, or even five thousand, the price would be substantially lower. I think their use of materials is an amazing step forward, especially considering the appalling list of eco-unfriendly materials used in typical mobile houses.

In conclusion, I think sustainability definitely needs critical voices, but we all need to ensure we are fully informed of issues before making brash comments on them, myself included. Thanks

"- The average condo in Toronto sells for about $300+ per sq. ft and not only are they not portable, they are miles away from sustainable and self-supporting."

A condo in toronto cost $300 per square ft beause it is in Toronto. If you were going to live in this stucture you would still have to but or lease the land.

"Hey Ben, what bold, revolutionary steps have you taken to lead us all toward a sustainable future?"

What kind of question is that? So, if Ben hasn't taken "bold, revolutionary steps to lead us all to a sustainable future" he shouldn't be allowed to critique something? And are you asserting that this little prefab project is a "bold, revolutionary step leading to a sustainable future"? Come on.

"I'm willing to bet you wrote your post on a plastic and metal computer held together by a myriad of toxic materials. And your chair and desk? Likely not eco friendly and biodegradable or FSC certified."

Um... so? It's odd for such a defensive set of questions which are completely irrelevant.

As for the other people who think $125k is cheap, I assume you don't own property, since usually the biggest cost is the land that the thing sits on.

And if this prefab is moved around by truck and/or train, is the energy and other materials consumed part of the "sustainability" equation?

Lloyd is right. Kitchens , bathrooms, and HVAC systems are often a huge cost component to a structure. I'd be interested to see what could be pulled off in terms of prefab living quarters that were meant to function within a community structure where things like bathrooms, bathing, dining, entertainment, etc, were in shared structures. It seems things get cramped and complicated when all the trappings of one's "castle" have to get compressed into a couple hundred square feet. If it's just plain living space (ie, sleeping and hanging out space) 340 square feet is huge.

I site on a lounge with a notebook (laptop)

Soo, my bold move is thus
The lounge is made out of recycled timber from an old sheep farming barn (its extreamly well preserved and hard but I can't remember the timber name) the covering is an organic cotton and filling made by wool.

My desk is not steel, its recycled wood again from the same barn (except this wood is more attractive) and the chair is the same recycled wood as is my coffee table, dinning table, chairs and everything else I could possibly find.

The sink in the kitchen was saved from crushing and landfill.

I also use compact fluros throughout the house, standerd bulbs where fluros would be useless.
I have recycled water and photovoltic cells to help with electricity. all my applicances are the most energy efficent ones on the market. I drive a car thats very petrol efficent.
I wear organic cotton and by all fruit and vegies from my local farmers at the local markets. I refuse to buy foods that are over packaged and I could go on for ages.
I wont though.

So I may not be being revolutionary but I am sure doing my bit to help my planet!

Cavalier, the reason I mentioned the sink was becuase I'm sure they used a new sink (even if recycled) and alaminium is none sustainable even with recycling. Also many alaminiums are none recyclable.

I finally saw the miniHome today. Most people touring the prototype know nothing about the project, and Andy was happy to spend time discussing the details with someone who has been enthusiastically following its progress.

A miniHome like the prototype (which includes photovoltaic panels, a wind turbine, and a green roof) will cost a maximum of 145K CAD (about 126K USD). It's expected to cost much less (about 120K CAD) once enough buyers sign up; the prototype didn't have the benefit of volume discounts. That price includes everything, including delivery and setup (siting and levelling, seeding the green roof, etc.). The miniHome is intended as a turnkey solution.

The Whispergen option isn't all that practical currently. It would add at least $15K to the price, and it has to be calibrated for a particular blend of biodiesel. Andy really wishes it were more affordable; he called propane the "crack cocaine" of off-grid living. Of course, the extremely efficient miniHome doesn't burn much propane.

In Ontario, travel trailer residents can avoid property taxes (because the trailer is legally a vehicle). But MPAC is starting to assess trailers used as permanent residences. A travel trailer with a covered porch addition may be assessed, for example. Andy didn't think that would happen, but based on what I've read, I'm not so sure.

In summary, the miniHome is an extremely well-designed, eco-friendly, self-contained home. Could I live with the limited space, the not insignificant cost, and potential legal restrictions? I have yet to decide.

As one of the miniHome's architects, I read all your comments with great interest. The points being made about price are duly noted as we hoped long ago to pull this off for about $50k. The reality of construction (new materials being largely a necessity in pre-fab and mass construction), code compliance and the higher than anticipated costs of prototyping have driven it well past $100k which would be our ideal level. We would like to build homes that we could readily afford ourselves.

Andy and I are committed to making the miniHome as green as it can be - within a reasonable budget. Thus, I'd be very interested to hear more about eco-alternatives to upholstery foam, mattresses, and stainless steel sinks. Also suggestions for alternatives to the aluminum trim that holds the wall panels in place (so they can move without cracking) would be most welcome.

I'll continue to read this thread, but would also welcome suggetsions directly to dhall@sustain.ca, if you prefer.

DH

Thank you for writing, Daniel! It's always nice to hear things straight from the source.

truely , i would live in a yurt of my own construction before i would live in that 100k house. i would laugh my head off at anyone thinking i'd even consider such a sham.

Afraid I have to agree with Tom, since I've more or less done what he suggests. I've got a 1500sf geodesic I built myself on 100 acres of reclaimed timberland, completely off-grid, and the total cost for the land & fully equipped house was less than the miniHome. Granted, there is obviously a premium for the portability of the miniHome, but as someone who lives in an area that uses (and builds) manufactured housing, I can easily compare what you get feature-wise for the price (which is about $35/sf). The reality is that "green" has to have a minimal price premium if you expect adoption by anyone other than the well-heeled true believers. Getting manufactured home (or travel-trailer) builders to improve the "green-ness" of their products by 1% would probably do more good than the total sales you will see of a $125k miniHome.

I like the idea of the miniHome (green, mobile), but to me the cost/sf plus that of a place to park it makes it unworkable even at half the price.

You can get a home which sleeps 4, has a kitchen, a shower, and workspace, and is very mobile, for about $33K.

http://www.autotrader.com/dealers/dda/detail.jsp?car_id=196947721

These things retailed for $35K, so it looks like the resale is pretty good, considering there's 72,000 miles on it.

I KNEW you were a treehugger!

Looks great.

Ciao A

Check out this site for prefab housing, designed by Australian architect Andrew Maynard.

http://www.prefabhouse.com.au/

comparing it to condo prices in toronto, boston, la , nyc , paris,,,, etc

is stupid.

this is price for a condo minus location... you can get a hell of a house for 125k in the middle of nowhere.

Hi Daniel Hall,

I've been researching materials to rebuild my appartement with, I found octupus products makes some pretty neat stuff, perhaps there's something in there that could replace aluminum. I really don't understand all the technical specs of the stuff; I just make furniture in my free time.

Upholstery foam has been bothering me for some time, as my favorite couch is quickly becoming uncomfortable. I'm looking into cotton and wool, the problem with cotton is you have to fluff it periodically. I haven't a clue about wool.

As for sinks, there's always soapstone, the one at my family's cottage has a date on it, 1934, and it still looks new.

Though I won't be able to afford it for a couple years yet, I find the miniHome really attractive. Could it come with fat wheels that could roll into a forest without damaging the forest floor too much?

Cheers,

The Mini Home, like any housing solution, is going to have applications that are more appropriate than others. This new moble home may be a good solution for those who live in expensive housing markets, don't have the skills to construct their own green home, or are more interested in having small, quality spaces than large, labor intensive homes. While no home built today can be perfectly green, perhaps if everyone were willing to consume less and live a little greener the net result would be a powerful force for change. It seems a waste of time to criticize the builders and designers of the Mini Home as they are clearly working with the best intentions to develop sustainable greener housing solutions.

I think the mini-home is very inventive...yes the price per/sf is not cheap. But I think its very cutting edge. I love to RV...however feel quilty because of the cost/fuel and how the whole vehicle is just so Non-green. Although this isn't as movable as an RV, I think its a step in the right direct. Does anyone remember how costly the first calculators were? Maybe it not relative, but I think its very cutting edge and am excited about the whole idea. Kudos for Oprah to feature it in such a mainstream magazine and perhaps it will stir up additional interest.

Besides the power equipment what is so expensive that any dwelling would cost 125K?
It is not affordable at all. Size doesn't matter in this case and it is very well laid out and designed- think apartments. Although apartment complexes would hold a smaller footprint and be better for othe environment. If everyone has their own land and lives in "nature" there will be no more nature left. It does however seem to have a low impact on the land or minimal disruption of the space it occupies. The LV house by RR is a much better buy although it is a different product (not portable). But take the LV home and add a solar/wind system and the price would still be better.

Maybe using proven materials like tractor trailer beds and just stick a frame on top, bolt it down and your done.

Recycling is not the best way to think about sustainability. Reusing is better (like the scap house ), BUT using less is probably the best way toward a sustainable future. We need to move beyond industrial. Maybe we should all read Walden again for some perspective.

I just watched this on that show "small spaces" on HGTV.. granted it's overpriced, it's still in a test-phase (not production). It really is luxurious and spacious without sacrificing comfort. The design for saving space is genius, pictures really don't do it justice.

The reason the price is the affordable is because of the TAX break you get! Since the mini home has wheels and the home is considered a RV you have no property taxes and hardly even a electric bill. In the end it will pay for itself
and that is why this home is so attractive.

at $110.000
But the new $149.000 price is way to much even with all the savings. your monthly payment would be like $2000
and that is very high price

Ideally, I'd like to see something like this with stripped down options for do it yourselfers. That way you could supply your own recycled fabrics for the cushions (which chances are you are going to recover anyway for your own style), recycled hardware, add a recycled sink and so on. And those items could be purchased locally.

Anyway, my kudos to the architects. 1.0 looks lovely.

I wouldn't have wanted to try to raise my family (with 2 children) in this small space.

In my opinion, this 340 sf mini home is either a starter home or a retirement option. Kind of like a Tesla Roadster is not for a family of four.

Be tough to sell in my area at that price though.

Dan & Andy -

First, I would like to say that I appreciate your ideas, & your desire to build a sustainable mobile minihome. Personally, it is one of my dreams to live on the road, while being as self-sufficient, environmentally friendly, & as personally comfortable as possible. In fact, I have made a rough draft of a converted bus that incorporates, among other things, a convertible greenhouse to grow just about anything I want or need to eat - er, produce wise. Which brings me to the subject of my post: I noticed in your schematics that you've planned a greenroof/garden area, but I have concerns about that working here in the US. There are fairly constrictive - although understandably needed - laws on the types of plants allowed over state borders; and, unless it has changed recently, no soil can be brought into Canada from the US. These are, really, the biggest obstacle which is stopping me from living my dream. I would love to hear your take on this issue. Are the laws in Canada less restrictive than the US about transporting plants across state/province lines? Are you aware of the US sate line restrictions and know of a way to get around them?

I would love to hear from you regarding this issue, & I know how busy you may be, so I will also be sending a copy of this post to you via your website.

Thanks for reading this & taking the time to reply,
Sonja

Great design and idea...way too expensive though...get it in the $65 s.f. range and now you'll really be accomplishing something by making it affordable for us average folk!