Next Generation Prius: 94 MPG in 2008?
by Collin Dunn, Corvallis, OR, USA on 04.11.06
Spies at AutoExpress in the UK have dug up some info on the next generation Toyota Prius hybrid that indicates it will be capable of fuel efficiency approaching 100 miles per gallon. Such efficiency is available now, both with a spendy plug-in modification and light-footed driving techniques, but the next generation of Toyota's hybrid will reportedly achieve greater efficiency through a lighter, more efficient lithium-ion battery system that would replace the current nickel metal hydride batteries. An anonymous Toyota engineer is quoted as saying, "We are working a prototype that runs solely on the electric motor in slow traffic, but switches to engine and motor drive when higher speeds are needed." Subaru and Mitsubishi both plan to sell such cars by 2010, but Toyota hopes to get its new model on the road as early as 2008. Reportedly, engineers are also working on reducing the current car's 10.9-second 0-62 mph time by more than a second; perhaps the Prius will be a racecar yet...::AutoExpress via ::Green Car Congress
The only thing I dislike about the Prius is the sloppy handling. If they clean that up (and pull off the 94 figure), buying it would be a no-brainer. At the very least 'Yota should make a TRD spring/damper/sway bar upgrade kit.
Sorry but much of the handling is due to the low rolling resistance tires that are also low grip. Tightening the suspension would only make matters worse. Part of the tradeoff for the high MPG. I expect that this is one of the problems being worked on because if hybrids are to truely go mainstream many people will want/demand better handling.
Better handling.
Jesus.
Just get in the damn car already.
What is "better handling?" Americans want more power in their car, more speed, more room, better handling. Why do you need better handling? American roads are clogged with traffic. 99% of urban adventurers don't take their SUVs over anything more challenging than a speedbump in the Safeway parking lot. Most NASCAR wannabes are not able to get their over-powered cars over 35 because of congestion. And how much room do we need? Most cars carry ONE person and often feature external racks and Thule or Yakima storage containers as well. How much freaking room do we need to buy a doughnut and some coffee?
Having been a Prius owner for the past couple of months, I have become highly attuned (oversensitive?) to the nation's bitching about the Prius.
Nobody likes the way it looks. They say it's unsafe because a Hummer might total it (of course a Hummer can be totaled by a semi. Does that mean we should all be driving semis?). They say it doesn't really get the mileage it claims (46 MPG is still lightyears better than 20 MPG in my book). They say the battery replacement cost could exceed $10,000. They say it's under-powered. On and on and on. The campaign against this vehicle is organized and irrationally vehement. A lot of companies have a stake in this failing and Americans going back to sleep for another decade or two.
This technology could easily be placed in every vehicle on the road today. It ain't fancy. It's a no-brainer. The polar icecaps are melting. Today.
Handle that.
Excellent rant, Spud.
" The campaign against this vehicle is organized and irrationally vehement. A lot of companies have a stake in this failing and Americans going back to sleep for another decade or two."
Bingo.
Spudnuts, I have one word for you: decaf. I've driven a Prius and I dislike the car's road manners. To me it does not feel well planted. Notice I never said I needed it to be bigger or more powerful or styled differently. I just want better control which can be fixed with a few suspension adjustments. That's it. Now if it bothers you that someone takes into account more mundane things in cars than "The polar icecaps are melting", then I guess you're in for a world of disappointment.
"Handle that". OK, Mr. E-Thug...
Spud, you bring up excellent points, but there's no need to jump all over #1, who was simply voicing one minor dislike of the car. Prius' are not perfect vehicles, and there's nothing wrong with wishing it had better handling, better gas mileage, came in bright pink, etc.
Last year I drove a ''89 camry which had I guess average handling. I now drive an '04 MINI Cooper S with Dynamic Stability Control. I really like it alot, though it would be really 'bettah' ;) if MINI had at least regenerative breaking of somesort; there have been a few all electric conversion...on the plus side fuel prices may drive -me- to take the bus to work this summer.
(for both cars I got TerraPass)
Spud I was not coming out against the car but pointing out why the handling was subpar to some. Not everyone ends up driving on clogged roads and even around town I hate cars that can't corner. If I have to slow down more to go around a corner then I have to expend more energy to resume my speed. Don't lump me in with the anti-hybrid bunch. All I said in the end was it was a trade-off and many will not be willing to make that trade off. You made them in to NASCAR (hate it) loving, SUV driving etc. nitwits. I drive a non-hybrid Accord, I bought it because it was a car I fit into that handled decent.
Dude a little decaf might help. Your perceived "war on hybrids" is sounding like the christians "war on Christmas" lots of hot air but little real substance.
"Your perceived 'war on hybrids' is sounding like the christians 'war on Christmas' lots of hot air but little real substance."
You're kidding, right?
http://www.google.com/search?q=hybrid+hype
So far, I've seen efforts denying they get the mileage they do, to claiming they're economically irrational, to saying they'll electrocute emergency workers, and most laughably, that they'll kill all the world's blind people.
People whine about their batteries, about their resale, about everything under the sun about them.
There is most definitely organzied efforts to undermine the technology. There's a tremendous amount of money at stake.
Ditto what Joseph said, plus:
John1701a.com has been documenting for years the attacks of hybrids he witnessed (see his "Prius logs", they go back 6 years) and it goes from simple ignorance (yet, strangely, these people often just don't seem to want to hear the facts - they are quite happy bashing hybrids based on false information) to organized campaigns of disinformation.
Not to mention the newest attack: Hybrids design takes a lot more effort, and thus energy.. Whereas a simple hummer is supposedly on par environmentally.
To have a new model ready in '08 though does seem a little soon.
>> So far, I've seen efforts denying they get the mileage they do, to claiming they're economically irrational, to saying they'll electrocute emergency workers, and most laughably, that they'll kill all the world's blind people.
It's funny you mention that. I was listening to a radio talk show here in Los Angeles last week (Conway and Whitman on 97.1 FREE FM) and they mentioned ALL of those arguments while trashing the Prius. I had never heard the Electrocuting Emergency Workers one before then. They said if you're in an accident the firefighters will refuse to cut you out of the car with the jaws of life for fear of electrocuting themselves because of "all the electrical wires and stuff that run through the body of the car". And yeah, they mentioned the one about the silent engine murdering people in crosswalks.
Nutty.
Thing is... people roll up every myth, disinfo nugget, and just plain made-up horror tale when discussing this car. They'll say things like the car will explode on impact because hydrogen is flammable (even though hydrogen has jack to do with this car).
I'm waiting for some "news" station to claim the Prius gives off some sort of mystery wave that converts people into pedophiles.
This technology can be deployed now and should have been deployed 30 years ago. But we are fed this steady diet of press releases about prototype cars and near future utopian vehicles that never seem to arrive.
20 MPG in 2006?
20?!
People will swallow the Star Wars Brilliant Pebbles (Google it) claims that space based weapons systems can knock out ICBMs and create a missile defense shield, but those same people do not question why gas mileage has remained the same for 100 years.
And the thing is this technology is not even really that exotic or revolutionary. The Prius gets much of its mileage savings by simply shutting off the engine instead of idling or going electric at low speeds. That's not space age. That's straight out of 1976.
But the same people who sit on the boards of the major automakers also sit on the boards of the energy companies. And they make MUCH, MUCH more money off of the fuel than the vehicle.
Think of it as the printer model or the razor blade model. If you buy a computer, you usually get a printer free. Or can buy one for $50. But these companies make their $ off of the cartridges. You can easily go through a $40 cartridge a month if you print a lot. Same thing with razor blades. Gilette only cares if you buy their sleek, new $7 "MP3-X" razor (or whatever) because they know you'll be paying $15 for six of their "triple-bladed, lubricated" proprietary blades every month.
Profit margins for car sales absolutely pale in comparison to money made off of oil, coal, weapons, or pharmaceuticals. If the "American" multinationals have their way the Prius will go the way of the Tucker. And Americans will sedately accept the deception that 21 MPG is the best we can manage in 2056.
Some people might label that a conspiracy theory. It's a conspiracy, but it's not theory.
Wow, sounds like the Prius owners are just waiting to vent on whatever poor sap makes the slightest comment about not liking the vehicle. I'm afraid the hybrid fanatacism I'm reading may turn more people off on them than the other way around. I'd love to drive a hybrid as my next vehicle, but I surely don't want to develop an attitude of superiority because of my mode of transportation. I mean geez, hearing all this makes me want to go buy a giant gas guzzler and run into every Prius I can find!
Having a Prius already has nothing to do with it (FlatGreg). Spudnuts arguments are completely valid. I drive a V6 sports car, from back before I opened my eyes (a green "awakening"). My next car certainly won't be along the lines of that!
It's just simply that we could do better, and choose not to. The Prius is one such vehicle that chooses to do better than "absolute garbage 1901 A.D miles-per-gallon". If you choose to pick up an SUV that gets almost tractor-level mileage, it's your choice. Just seems a pity that enough people doing this leads to scientists predicting polar bears won't be around at the turn of the century. Your choice has a consequence that impacts things beyond just you. Worse still, you are informed, and would still make a bad choice...
Anyway, kudos again to the great posts Spudnuts!
Regards,
Matt
My comment on the "war on hybrids" may have been inaccurate. I tend to let things slide off my my back so I guess I filter out the BS knocking hybrids.
Ya know this all started because the handling of a car with low rolling resistance tires. As I said I assume that this will be worked on. The Camary hybrid has standard tires because they wanted it to drive like a normal car. The tradeoff is probably around 1 MPG. I'm not hatin' on the Prius.
BTW the CR figures (including the corrected numbers Prius and Civic) on the payoff of hybrids is probably accurate for todays fuel prices. However I think the cheap fuel party is at or near an end so the numbers are gonna make hybrids much more compelling to many people.
The rest of the knocks on hybrids are as I said are BS.
The latest one on the amount of materials and labor has some truth but its a big lie.
The Hummer is simply a reskined pickup/SUV and as such is simple to build as is it's drive train, no R&D that wasn't already done for GM pickups.
The main parts of the Prius are as well, standard car constuction. Since it is a unique platform the platform, batteries, motor controls, motors and tranny took more manpower for R&D and build.
OK I laid it out for you so you can see the truth and the big lie. Simply this, less economy of scale allows the writer to twist the stats. On a unit cost and in fuel costs the hybrid will win every time. The R&D costs are higher but with more hybrid models coming out all the time using the same basic research it that too will become a wash.
I love the Prius, have driven one, belive we have a major problem with global warming, etc. I also work with blind people. Trained dog guides for more than 25 years.
The concern is real.
Buy a Prius, work on a solution to the silent car issue. No conflict, just plain old complicated reality.
"I also work with blind people. Trained dog guides for more than 25 years. The concern is real."
How many of these people have been hit with electric buses? Or by any automobiles or trucks?
Surely you realize that the dogs can see a hybrid just as well as any other vehicle, and that most road noise at city speeds has to do with hitting potholes and tires rolling, right?
Thanks for playing.
The Kills Blind People meme is hilarious. Flat out hilarious. And silly.
New Orleans is a toxic swimming pool with more Katrina-like events certain to follow and Americans are worried about getting murdered by a rampaging, silent, exploding, marshmallow soft, jaws-of-life resisting, electrocuting Prius.
Astounding.
The prius has several modifications avalible to improve the iffy handleing.
TRD has a suspension upgrade kit. TOM's has several upper and lower sway bars and BT tech has a nice replacement stiffening plate.
Have had a prius since 1992 Also drive a Highlander Hybrid. Enough whining about em, just start buying them. Then they will continue to evolve and get better. My Highlander gets 29mpg avg. A heck of a lot better than my Nissan Pathfinder at 15. Love both my hybrids. We have to start living it instead of just talking about it.
Good posts Spudnuts.
BTW, I just bought a Prius and I can't wait to go to the gaz station to fill my tank.
I have a 2003 VW Golf TDI(diesel). It get an average of 45mpg, heavy footed or not.
It handles great, blind people can hear it, and it doesn't smoke unless wideopen trottle.
There are plenty of performance upgrades for it. And it can run on Biodiesel or vegtable oil for those of you who don't know what biodiesel is. Lastly you can brew your own biodiesel for under $1.00 a gallon.
Good points by most of you. Number one is the theory of bigger is safer, See what happens when a semi hits a bridge abutment, Semi loses. Point two, Prius doesn't its stated mileage, yes there are times when I only average 45, during those similar times my other cars, 4banger camry, 2.2 Subie, or Neon only get low 20's, and my Burb low teens. The simple fact is when people are comparing the Prius to the EPA numbers, if they did the same with other vehicles very similar results. I get close to 60 mpg on certain trips up here in NH, and its not city driving, but driving on our state highways between towns. How many cars can do that? If you drive a TDI and get 50 mpg, the Prius will likely get 55-60. It goes from 0-60 in 10 seconds give or take, and mine did the 1/4 mile at 80 mph. Both decent numbers, and more importantly, from a light (0-30)it really pulls. I say keep buying and driving them, and the new ones will get better and better. When storage technology develops further full electric cars will become the norm anyway. I can't wait till that happens. Till then just keep on EDUCATING people by giving them a ride, and show them the money, saved.
The 2007 Prius will have an available "Touring" edition, which will have a stiffer suspension.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116554
Also, the side curtain airbags will become standard!
How dare Toyota listen to customers? Don't they know the polar icecaps are melting? You will buy the car as is and you will like it!
^_^
Doesn't matter to me anyway. I have a 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. Handles better than a Prius and the last tank was 57.4 MPG. Good enough.
alot of people seem to be saying take decaf spud. all I can say is don't. I sell these cars and realistically don't prefer them but they do what there suppose to. Someone says...i don't like to slow down when cornering...what an azz. this car isn't for that. its for commuting and getting better gas mileage as well as being better for the envio. thats it.
The 2004+ Prius doesn't handle as well as I'd like. It's a deceptively good handling car, however. Having said that, I'll second what spudnuts said about after market parts.
In particular, the $160 BT tech plate takes 15 minutes to install and makes the car feel a lot better- doesn't drift as much on the highway. I also have good Michelin tires which helped a bit over the stock ones. My struts failed in the first 65K miles so I now have the KYBs which are pretty nice. Will all of that I'm really enjoying my 24 mile commute.
The traction control is pretty bad, though, I must say. I hope they fix that on the 2008. Why does it have to completely kill all power when the wheels start slipping?
Russ (2004 Prius)
I read John comment about the 2003 VW Golf TDI(diesel), saying that it is very economic.
The diesel usually are very economic, but not to the health, because of the black dust. Read about it and understand why the french and japanese cars use a filter on their diesels.
Please do a favor to all people you know and do not get a diesel without a filter.
I have a 06 Prius and is the best car ever, ok it is not a racing car, but it polutes a lot less than any other gas, or diesel car.
The safety is 5star EuroNCap on class D, want better?
Prius is one of the first Hybrid, let the men work and 10 years from now 90% will be hybrid and everyone of us will say to our childrens
"I drove a Prius"
I live in a mountain resort community and saw my first inversion the other day. I immediately sold my SUV I love and bought a Prius. It's very nice, great gas milage. Admittedly, I miss my SUV and it's a sacrifice. It's not as big a sacrifice as the polar bears are making for our ignorance. I can live with my Prius. I'm not sure I could live with myself if I did nothing.
I'd really like to drive a prius to see what its like. I'll admit Im a bit of a speed freak myself. But as a daily driver a prius might be nice. Something hybrid anyway. 94mpg is a bit hard to turn away from however.
You guys are fuuuunny! Who doesn't slow down for corners?! And where are you driving--so that I can stay clear?!
The Touring Edition Prius handles noticeably better with the 1" larger wheels and lower profile tires. BTW, the standard tires are just tires--although I'm sure the big "T" did look at rolling resistance parameters. They can be replaced with whatever is your favorite brand and style for "grippiness" or whatever. It was the original Prius that had the awful low rolling reisistance/high load bearing tires that were only made in that size and type by one manufacturer and wore out in 15K mi.!
PS. Blind people can't read this, and deaf people can still be hit by a noisy vehicle.
I bought a 2002 Prius in 2001, but didn't take delivery until 2002 - 6 month wait. I remember clearly thinking on the test drive that the 2002 Prius was not a lot of fun to drive. But it did contain a lot of gee-whiz technology, and IMO, that was the enitre point of buying the Prius. Nobody in their right mind back then would buy a Prius because of handling and 0-60 times. I bought a Prius because I see the hybrid technology as a type of bridge technology to the future, and I wanted to vote with my dollars to send the correct market signals to the automobile industry.
I also believed then, and more so now, that we - the global industrial "we" - have a large energy "nut" to crack, that is, figure out what were going to do about exploding fossil fuel demand colliding against slowing fossil fuel supply. In other words, how the global we will address peak oil. Hybrid automobile technology will NOT be the solution. Hybrid technology will, however, be an important part of the transportation evolution as we move towards more efficient hybrid solutions, likely involving fuel cells and hybrid drive trains, and after that, who knows?
And don't get me started on all the climate-change and energy security reasons to buy an efficient vehicle.
As to my 2002 Prius, I now have 148,000 miles on the car. I've driven it from Vermont to Cape Spear Newfoundland, to Key West to the Oregon Coast, and to Prudhue Bay, Alaska. The Prius has been utterly, magnifiscently reliable. I routinely get 50+ miles per gallon when driving somewhat carefully, and shudder to think about the promises held by 3rd and 4th generation Prius (I'm hearing rumors of a clean-diesel Prius for 4th generation).
As an aside, I wonder if the Toyota engineers are thinking at all about the ability to accurately control high-discharge capacitor/motors, perhaps installed on the rear wheels to not only make the Prius a 4-wheel drive, but to get it off the line to 60 miph more quickly. If so, you could then downsize the engine even further.
Anyway, for the reasons mentioned, I will never buy another non-hybrid car.
I bought a 2002 Prius in 2001, but didn't take delivery until 2002 - 6 month wait. I remember clearly thinking on the test drive that the 2002 Prius was not a lot of fun to drive. But it did contain a lot of gee-whiz technology, and IMO, that was the enitre point of buying the Prius. Nobody in their right mind back then would buy a Prius because of handling and 0-60 times. I bought a Prius because I see the hybrid technology as a type of bridge technology to the future, and I wanted to vote with my dollars to send the correct market signals to the automobile industry.
I also believed then, and more so now, that we - the global industrial "we" - have a large energy "nut" to crack, that is, figure out what were going to do about exploding fossil fuel demand colliding against slowing fossil fuel supply. In other words, how the global we will address peak oil. Hybrid automobile technology will NOT be the solution. Hybrid technology will, however, be an important part of the transportation evolution as we move towards more efficient hybrid solutions, likely involving fuel cells and hybrid drive trains, and after that, who knows?
And don't get me started on all the climate-change and energy security reasons to buy an efficient vehicle.
As to my 2002 Prius, I now have 148,000 miles on the car. I've driven it from Vermont to Cape Spear Newfoundland, to Key West to the Oregon Coast, and to Prudhue Bay, Alaska. The Prius has been utterly, magnifiscently reliable. I routinely get 50+ miles per gallon when driving somewhat carefully, and shudder to think about the promises held by 3rd and 4th generation Prius (I'm hearing rumors of a clean-diesel Prius for 4th generation).
As an aside, I wonder if the Toyota engineers are thinking at all about the ability to accurately control high-discharge capacitor/motors, perhaps installed on the rear wheels to not only make the Prius a 4-wheel drive, but to get it off the line to 60 miph more quickly. If so, you could then downsize the engine even further.
Anyway, for the reasons mentioned, I will never buy another non-hybrid car.
Anyone who wants european-style handling from a Prius should look at the Touring Edition (which finally came to the USA in 2007). It has a tighter suspension, larger wheels, widerlower-profile tires. It has a much more solid feel than the american-tuned version. Most americans just like to feel like they are driving couches down the road. That's why most (all?) manufacturers soften their suspensions for the USA market.
I like a racecar-stiff feel to my cars, and I'm glad I waited for the touring edition...though it obviously isn't a racecar.
What are you guys talking about. don't even post here if you don't own a Prius. The Toyota Prius Hybrid is the most advanced car for the money, being sold today. I own a Prius Hybrid. I Average between 58 and 74 Miles per gallon. This car handles like a dream. I've never driven a car that had such an amazing ride. And the power is Always there when you need it. And with the CVT transmission, you never feel the gears shift, and that's because it doesn't have any. nice move Toyota. And with regenerative braking, you may never have to change your brakes. Just shut up if you're stupid, please.
Love.
You have to change your brakes as in any other car, they just last much longer (3 to 4 times longer).
I bought a 2002 Prius, a couple of weeks ago, with less than 15,000mi on it. It obviously looks new, and was previously owned by a 70-something yr old couple who traded it in on a new one.
The vehicle I traded in was a 2004 Dodge Ram 2500 SLT 4x4 with Infinity, nav, and virtually all other options. Sure, it was a nice truck, to say the least, the 400+hp/780lb. ft. of torque (it was "dooped up", and I do miss the secure feeling of towering over most traffic.....but I do NOT miss 17-18mpg, $70 oil changes, the $150 tires, or the insurance.
Sure I lost a lot of money on the trade-in, and I paid the same price as the msrp of a NEW, loaded Prius, but it's worth it to me.
The ride is much nicer in my prius, I've averaged 41mpg on the 1st tank, and 52.66mpg on the second one, no BS!!! Sure I take my time, and go easy on the pedal, but to me it's fun to see how much I can squeeze out of each tank. I used to own loud, piped Harleys, but nothing compares to the look on pedestrians faces when I cruise by them in "stealth" (all electric) mode.
I love it, so far, and if gas hits $4/gal this summer, as predicted, I will love it even more.
Everyone has a right to his/her opinion of the car, but please, uninformed public, keep your skeptisism to yourselves, unless you have lived with this car long enough to form an educated impression. If you want something you can drift around corners and race Corvette's with.....BUY A CORVETTE (or any sports car of your liking!! If you drive it like a sports car, of course it, as with ANY auto, will return abysmal (~40mpg?) gas mileage
P.S.: I used to comment how thr Prius was the fugliest car on the road EVERY time we passed one.... Now, however, I have been fully, utterly, and irreverseably "converted". Dare I say I'm actually beginning to think it's "cute"?
This is great news about the 2008 Prius. I just hope that people will continue to buy the existing technology and not wait. We need to curb petroleum consumption ASAP.
As far as all the money at risk, that's what capitalism is supposed to be all about: competition.
If GM can bring the Volt to market, I'd love to buy one. Till then I'll stick with a Prius.
Spud...another word for ya...Mustang Convertible GT!!!. Well, maybe more than one, more like 300...horsepower that is. Get outta the way, or get mashed Spudtater. (Wish I could afford a 'vette.) That being said, wifey's got a Prius on order...sigh... that gives us a combined gas mileage of approx 35...not toooo too bad I guess. Just gotta figure out how to put a bumper hitch on the Pryus* so I can pull my boat trailer & boat with the twin Merc's (150HP each).
*Pryus, as in "Pry us away from our money." I know, I know, the Toyo sales guy didn't think it was funny either.
re; the Prius and its handling. I am a new Prius owner. I cannot avoid thinking of the many cars I've owned over my life time and the mileage they got. I went to a car show with some friends a while back. My girlfriend asked me which of the cars there I would just love to have. I looked at the vintage hot rods and their many coats of shining paint and I thought a while. Then I turned to her and I said, "I'm driving it."
I have owned my '06 Prius since January of 2006. I take corners faster than those in SUVs. I have the ESP and it keeps the car from getting out of control. I can even take a curve that is (marked) 25MPH at 50MPH. The stability program complains, but the car handles the turn. I average 52MPG going to and from work in my mixed driving loop. I'm not sure what is missing...... I'm not making any of this up either. The car has leather seats, GPS, MP3, Backup camera, etc. (I got the works) so I think I'm doing pretty good. I drive about 24k a year and have saved SOOOOOO much money on gas and the great govt. tax break that the car is the best financial decision I have ever made and I love to drive it (gadgets are cool). Now, I will admit that I set my cruise control at 66MPH in a 65MPH zone get in the right lane. (that explains the 52MPG) My wife wants a Prius now, so it looks like we will have 2 in the driveway when the plug in model comes out. Toyota did a good job and it can only get better. Batteries..... the car has been out since the late 90's in Japan and nobody has had to replace the batteries yet..........