If for nothing else but that the iPod has eliminated the physical medium of the CD in musical transactions, it has done much to help the environment already. CDs, their associated media wrappers, the printing costs for the covers and the CDs themselves, and the fossil fuels used to transport the physical media to the stores and from the stores to the consumer's homes--all of this has been eliminated by the use of iTunes.

Wasn't this mentioned on Treehugger before?

Good thing they are improving disposability: my teenage daughter's Ipod failed three times under warranty. Each time they could not repair it so Apple simply gave her a new one. And you guessed it: two days after expiration of warranty, the newest one failed as well. Four Ipods in two years. Good thing she didn't throw away her CDs.

Can anyone recommend a music player with real durability? I had thought for the price, I could count on Ipod...

I'm with Berkana, the elimination of those substances are the least of the ipods eco friendly features. The elimination of thousands and thousands of CD's batteries and cd players, which for me broke frequently.

The iPod hasn't completely eliminated the physical medium of CDs, but it certainly allows users the opportunity to do so. I still purchase all of my music in CD form because I'm able to get higher quality and a lot of the music I like isn't available for download online.

iPods also use significantly less electricity than CD players (especially the flash-based iPod products).

If only Apple made their computers more upgradeable in the first place, maybe so many of them wouldn't need to be recycled. Still, I love my iPod.

Chris, the new Intel Macs have socketed CPUs, so you will be able to upgrade them. Still, I'd say that the average life of a Mac is longer than the average life than a PC (if only because in the past few years Apple had slowed down the upgrade rate because of troubles with IBM).

"Can anyone recommend a music player with real durability?"

sure.. ipod I've had mine for 3 years with no problems.. is your daughter dropping the hard drive based player or something?

'Tis about time Apple gets their act together!

"Can anyone recommend a music player with real durability"

No. All players will have similar complaints as your experience. iPods are top-of-the-line, but it appears as though you got into the minority poercentage more than once.

"If only Apple made their computers more upgradeable in the first place, maybe so many of them wouldn't need to be recycled."

Intersting thing to note is that Apple computers are kept in service longer than othe PC makers. People tend to hold onto their Apples longer, and because of the quality, they tend to maintin a high resale value. I bet most of the recycled computers are going to be like quadras and G3s; ancient technology. ;)

MGR and consumer_q: sadly, the average lifetime of a computer is pretty short, mostly because the average user doesn't have the knowhow to upgrade them effectively. And I completely believe that the average Mac last longer than the average PC (especially if it's bought from Dell or another big manufacturer that intentionally makes their systems difficult to upgrade). But for an eco-friendly geek such as myself, there's no denying that it's much easier to keep a PC "alive" for many years than it is a Mac.

I don't mean to start a PC vs. Mac flame war about this though. I love Macs in a lot of ways, and I'm thinking of getting an Apple laptop (where substantial upgrades aren't very feasible on either type of system, so it's not an issue).

Hello again,

"there's no denying that it's much easier to keep a PC "alive" for many years than it is a Mac"

At one time I believed the same, but then I came to a different conclusion after comparing Apples to other PC makers. True, 'low-end' Macs (e.g. iMacs and eMacs) have limited upgrades, but so do the equivalent Windows machines. How much other than RAM, HDD and optical drives can be modified in the eMachines and low-end HPs?

Also the Low-end desktops most commonly purchased from Compac, Dell, and HP have historically had soldered on CPUs, RAM, and other bits, that cannot be upgraded.

The new Minis and iMacs, although a tad diffult to do at times, still have the ability for limited upgrades, but these machines are not built to be modified by the consumer any moreso than Dells, eMachines, Compacs or HPs. A low-end PC by any maker is made to be frozen in time during the era it was manufactured.

However, Apple, just like other PC makers, have always maintained a line of computers that can be upgraded. My PPC desktop has had RAM. CPU, HDD, optical drives, I/O and video cards all added and subtracted to it over the years. This is a 5+ year old machine.

Energy-wise, it would probably be a good idea for me to purchase a Mini with its lower power draw, but because I do require upgrades I stick with the larger desktops.

it's a fact that both computer systems are more expensive to upgrade than to buy new. that's the part that needs to change.