Organic vs Local at Whole Foods

As a consumer, I would like to see more American farmers move to organic methods. They aren't going to do that if I support their techniques just because they're closer.

Just like you make changes in politics with your vote, you make changes in products through your purchases. You buy the organic tomatoes.

The NJ farmer will loose profit to Chili. The farmer will switch (we hope) to organic farming methods, and next year you'll have NJ grown tomatoes that are organic. You'll do more good in the long run supporting organic all the time.

You answer the question yourself. Best eco choice is the one with the least environmental damage (assuming that the conventional grower isn't using something like DDT, even roundup eventually breaks down after a few years).

Personally, I'd still buy organic because I'd rather not be eating roundup residue (trade off, my body/health is more immediately important to me).

how about neither? it strikes me that the best and most eco-conscious decision would be to only buy what is in season, which means that you can get local, organically grown. either through the local farmer's markets (chose the organic stalls) or through the various organic delivery (their own eco-problems) or farm programs.

I think every person needs to take care of his/her health, and that is as important as taking care of the planet. So provided I can afford it, I'll chose organic over conventional products any time, regardless of their origin. I hope that gives an extra incentive to farmers in Jersey, and everywhere else, to use organic methods.
Besides (and I know this has nothing to do with the environmental issues, but still) fruit from Chile tastes better than about 99% of the products from Jersey. I guess it's the climate but a lot of the fruit coming from the "garden state" tastes like plastic, while Chilean grapes tend to be as sweet as candy.

I applaud esm- off season produce rarely tastes worth it. If possible, by the local organic frozen version (that was picked at the height of taste)if your craving falls within the wrong time of the season.

“The food we put into our mouths today travels an average of thirteen hundred miles from where it is produced, changing hands at least six times along the way.” Coming Home to Eat, Garry Paul Nabham (excellent book devoted to this topic). This factoid unfortunately shows the crux of fossil fuel consumption still being tied up in the problem when non-local organic produce is purchased, and sustained.

Sorry, but buying organic from the likes of Safeway (or dare I say WF's nonlocal produce) is still a really shoddy move for your community's economics.

Just to further muddy the equation....

Shouldn't you also factor in the producer profit factor? Giving money to a third world farmer vs. the farmer in NJ which is likely part of a conglomerate?

John, I'm not sure it's as simple as that. That third world farmer might not get a big cut (not "fair trade")...

Personally, I think that the bottom line is that shipping food across the globe is simply not sustainable (esp. when you consider peak oil). We will be much better off if we start building local food production channels right now, even if it means that they'll only turn to organic farming later.

And if food is organic but it creates lots and lots of pollution during shipping, is it really "green"?

Of course the best choice is in-season, locally grown, organic, fairtrade food (after all, it's only fair that if your local farmer is producing organic food that he/she gets fairly paid for producing it).

It'll take a while before this is something available to all of us, and even then there's going to have to be concessions if we want an interesting and varied diet.

I suppose the best way to work towards this is through consumer choice - visit your local farmer's market before stocking up on other goods from the supermarkets. Tell your local farmer that you'd prefer it if all his food was organic.

John, don't you think the organic produce coming from chile is also via a conglomerate? I lived in Chile and that seems to be the case to me.

Also, by not buying from local farmers I think we're only encouraging them to sell their land to developers.

You should, of course, support your local organic farmer most of all. Say hello to the farmer's market.

I think the real answer is Community Supported Agriculture. You can get local, organic, in season produce and cut out the middle man. CSAs exist all over the country right now.

http://www.localharvest.org/csa/

And why is that when I go to Whole Foods in New York they don't have New York apples? Why are they from Washington (the closest)? Apples are one of the things NY *can* grow with great success. This isn't even considering the organic issue. Whole Foods does a pretty good job, but when I see the lack of local apples, I tend to think they are taking a bit too much credit.

1. Distance Traveled (local).
2. Production Method (organic).
3. In Season.
4. Fair Compensation for
Production (Fair Trade).

If we are worried primarily about these three things, is one necessarily more important than the other? Should we come up with a rating system, assigning points to each category, based on its impact on the environment, our bodies, and promoting change of practice? If so, how should we rate each category? Is there enough evidence to set up a graduated system based on impact?

For this portion, I’ll assume that eating a local/in season diet automatically ensures fair compensation for the growers, since the best way to achieve this is through farmer’s markets, CSA (community supported agriculture), and a personal or family garden:

I first started thinking about this after reading an article on “The Hundred Mile Diet.” The realization that we often must choose between eating an organic (for some vegetarian/vegan) diet and eating a local/in season diet, made me feel uncomfortable. Trying to decide which would be the most responsible, sustainable, morally correct, healthy choice (when I’m not able to satisfy all 4) is a daunting task. I talked with my girlfriend about this, and she pointed out that continuing to buy organic foods may promote local farmers to grow organic. So now we have to consider the impact our choices make on the market. After reading slate’s article on Whole Foods, I’m convinced that I have no idea. Perhaps we need to talk to experts, and do some research at this point?

Public awareness is a great first step!

I live in NY and constantly have this problem. Right across from Wholefoods is the farmer's market, with produce coming from relatively close to the city, however, whenever I go there, there's never any organic produce.

I end up going for Wholefoods organic produce even though it comes from farther away, partly for health reasons, and partly because without demand for organic produce, local producers won't ever change their methods.

(I always make a point to ask the farmers at the market if they have any organic produce).

The libertarian in me wants to ask about quality, especially since this is Whole Paycheck we are talking about. Which producer has the better quality? 'Conventioanlly grown' can me a great variety of things. And the 'Organic' label, while very precise, isn't necessarily the best, however that is defined. Breed and pedigree can mean alot to a well heeled 'yuppie'; yet for the 'hippie', social justice behind the produce might actually exclude the foreign fruit (yes the Tomato is a fruit, not a veggie)...or not.

I'd go to a farmer's market and buy organic Jersey tomatoes. If I couldn't find organic, I'd do like another poster said and make a point of asking for organic, but probably buy the tomatoes there anyway. I'm a chef. Jersey tomatoes specifically aren't (supposed to be) picked until at least 60% ripe and once the season is gone, they are too. When you get good ones, the taste is perfect. Even organic tomatoes in Chile are probably picked unripe and are ripened on the way to market. It would be very hard to ripen them and then ship because tomatoes are so fragile. Vine-ripened, local, conventional trumps organic from far away when I'm making food for other people.

Now if the tomato growers from Chile also bought credits to offset thier carbon emissions to get the fruit to market, then I'd have to reconsider, but I'd probably go for taste anyway. :)

Does Whole Foods label food the same way across the chain? I've found at the Oakville branch the produce is labelled at the country level. How local can you be when you are looking at three bins of apples all labelled Canada?

Buy from New Jersey.

If you buy from Chile, Farmer Brown in New Jersey can't make a go of it.

But,

He's sitting on 200 acres of land. He loves farming, but he likes all the comforts of life like everyone else.

He sells the land to a developer.

The developer puts up a strip mall and 100 houses.

I struggle daily about the choices I make regarding the environment. One can easily turn into an eco-prisoner - only making decisions for the environment and not for their sanity. Should we buy the organic tomatoes from Chile or the non-organic locally grown ones from Jersey? I don't know if there is a right answer, but I do like questions like this that open dialogue.

I use tomatoes quite frequently in my cooking year-round. Not using them would mean a major overall in my eating habits. Where is the balance between choosing the right thing for the environment and the right thing for my family? When I know I'm not able to make the wisest decisions about certain purchases I try and offset it elsewhere. Do I really need the mango grown in Venezuela or can I just make do with the homemade canned applesauce from last fall?

And to further muddy the water- just because it says its organic, don't think you're not getting your pesticides with that produce.
Science News article about pesticide levels in organic food here.

i just get the organic in season stuff at my farmers market, that way i don't have to worry about stuff like this, to confusing

Buying local produce helps save the local farmer and his farm. It keeps billions of dollars going round and round the economy here at home as money is paid to farm workers and suppliers. And theoretically shouldn't we care more about how the crop/animal is grown if we share the same air and water it's grown with?

I try to take the dollars I save from buying this way and then spend it on fine things like carbon offsets, oxfam, etc. NIIICE.

I've heard that it takes three times the area to grow organic as opposed to growing with pesticides. Is this true?

Obviously, the best solution is purchase locally grown & organic produce.

Back when I was in college in Boston in the late 80's, we had a little chain of natural foods stores called Bread and Circus. I walked by the store every day and usually picked up my dinner fixings on my way home. They had very strict policies about the quality of their products - no refined sugars, no synthetic preservatives or additives, and their produce was all organic.

Cut to now. Bread and Circus was taken over by the monsterous Whole Foods corporation. The tiny store with huge convictions disappeared.

I'm not sure if there is a moral to that story really, It's just something I think about whenever I hear people talking about Whole Foods.

Obviously the best thing is to have local, organic produce. That's what I aim for when I shop.

Very interesting Slate article "Is Whole Foods Wholesome?".

I shop at Whole Foods and buy some, but not all, conventionally grown produce. Whole Foods will not sell GMO or food products with toxic or dangerous additives, chemicals, and or other health hazards. If I did not trust the contract Whole Foods makes with their growers, I would not shop there and Whole Foods knows it. If a farmer in NJ can meet the criteria with conventional food to sell to Whole Foods, he is not using toxic substances; therefore, I would buy his tomatoes. I buy a brand of frozen fruit, which is sold as conventional but is grown with organic standards. This boutique brand just isn't certified organic. I shop at Whole Foods because my family and I feel remarkably healthier eating 90% organic foods. Once a week plan every meal with simple recipes, if you use recipes. Measure or weigh every single portion per the new food pyramid (2 tablespoons of walnuts make 1 protein serving – not a handful for snacks), cook as little as possible, buy out of the bins, produce and dairy and you won't spend your whole paycheck. Grow your own organic garden, or plant a pot of tomatoes, or grow herbs and sprouts in your kitchen and enjoy the freshest produce available at the lowest possible price.

I believe buying local conventional food is better than buying foriegn certified organic. FYI there is such a lag between demand for organic and the amount grown in the US that currently about 1/3 of all organic products are imported into the US.

Now what do you all think about us farmers' that used to be certified organic but because we did not trust what the USDA would do to the organic lable (water down the regs which is happening) voluntarily decertified our farms and no longer can legally use the term "organic" or "certified organic". There are thousands of us out there running CSA's and selling at your local farmers' market. But if you ask us if we are organic we legally must say no. Even though we grow using organic methods and in many cases our methods way exceed the USDA regulations?

"I've heard that it takes three times the area to grow organic as opposed to growing with pesticides. Is this true?"

Steve this is based on organic farms that fallow fields for extra fertility. every 3 years or so a field should put into fallow which means a crop destined to be cut and turned back into the soil (as opposed to being harvested and removed from the field). Most farmers use this fallowed land to raise pastured livestock (yes they eat some of the crop but leave manure behind) so the land is not "wasted". sdo no it does not really take 3 times the crop land to raise an organic crop unless the land is being poorly managed.

my answer is that the local one is better if it was grown by a small-scale grower who might not be certified organic but whose growing practices are more or less wholistic. and if the tomato is not a GM variety. given that there's no labelling law for GM foods in the US, unlike virtually the rest of the industrialized societies, and given that whole foods makes no attempt to guarantee its consumers that its products don't contain GM ingredients, there's no way of knowing for sure. in the end I would much rather have a tomato that is non-GM, knowing that it may have required the use of a lot of fossil fuels but at least will not be unleashing genetic and ecological destruction on the world.

The choice is a false one. There is another question to consider which is directly linked to ecology: that of personal health. Our own "eco-system" is compromised by eating food grown with chemical fertilizer and pesticides. Taken in this light, the Chilean tomato is indeed a better choice, despite the fuel taken to bring it here.

Last week I delivered locally grown produce to three Whole Foods stores in Los Angeles. Specifically the West LA, Santa Monica, and Brentwood stores.

Once a week I drive my truck to family farms located no more than 200 miles from LA. I buy fruits and vegetables from these farmers and deliver the produce the next day.

Whole Foods bought six items from me last week: Cocktail Fruit and Meiwa Kumquats from Cunningham Organic Farm; English and Snow peas from Ebby's Organic in Goleta; and Vietnamese and Hawaiian guava from 3Nuts in Vista.

The produce team leaders of each store built really nice displays showcasing the locally grown produce. I'm going to check-in with the stores today and see how things went over the weekend. Hopefully, things went well and Whole Foods will continue to buy locally grown produce.

As has been posted in various forms, choosing between the two options is essentially choosing your priorities - Organic / Healthy vs. Eco-Firendly. That's a hard choice for a lot of people.

Also, it's not a clear cut eco-benefit since the Chilean tomatoes might have signifiacntly less eco-damaging production methods that offset their transport costs. Also, international bulk shipping energy per Food Mile are significantly less than domestic transport costs; this might effect the choice as well.

I agree with Anthony: if you're concerned about the environment, your local economy, and your health, a CSA program (Community Supported Agriculture) is the way to go. It supports your local farmer, saves fossil fuels, and is good for your body all at the same time. You'll also be eating in -season.

I think that some are forgetting that organic produce DOES support the environment, not just our bodies. Through run-off, many pesticides used in agricultural production end up in our water and soil, and eventually in the food chain. That's something to consider when debating the Organic vs. Local issue.

Stop buying long-distance organic and start a revolution for local farmers to grow organic. Department store produce will become a thing of the past. Local, organic is the new wave of the future, and it will go there.

Grow your own small garden of a few variety. You will then know it's 100% organic, grown with love, and you have contributed that much more to the eco-system of the world. You are literally taking matters into your own hands. What more you ask for in doing your part for the environment?

All over the world we can create a Live Earth.

Found this site when I was looking for the truth on Safeway's new "ORGANICS" line.I have bought the more expensive local produce and patronized the locally owned businesses. And yes. I have actually fought to keep out Starbucks(yea,yea go ahead and shoot me) and all the other heavily financed mainland(I am in Hawaii) chains like Maui Tacos, Jamba Juice somebodies bigger burgers, etc. We used to have some charming little locally owned and operated coffee houses, burger shops, and juice bars of which there is a couple left. The big local commercial land owner here in Kailua and our illustrious City & County have been cahooting to change our sweet little town in order to be more attractive. Unfortunately our tax dollars have been diverted to revitalize streets fronting property owned by the big local commercial land owner and our communities fight and lose just to get a speed hump to try and protect our children because we have no sidewalks!. That would be the same City &County (of Honolulu) that raised the tax rate substantially on ag. land. There goes our local produce and here come all the developers.That would be the same City&County that voted to force private land owners in Waikiki to sell there property to a corporation known as the OUTRIGGER hotel chain. Our laws in this country state that landowners can't be forced to sell unless it is for the public good (imminant domain) such interstates. To Outrigger's credit they will be providing a public restroom on the city blocks under developement.It is getting harder and harder to find locally grown organic produce here .

Found this site when I was looking for the truth on Safeway's new "ORGANICS" line.I have bought the more expensive local produce and patronized the locally owned businesses. And yes. I have actually fought to keep out Starbucks(yea,yea go ahead and shoot me) and all the other heavily financed mainland(I am in Hawaii) chains like Maui Tacos, Jamba Juice somebodies bigger burgers, etc. We used to have some charming locally owned and operated shops of which a couple are left. Just read that Whole Foods is moving in and I am not familiar with the products. Are they organic?

The lack of Ontario pears in Montreal markets this week (I found some at a farmer's market and they are terrific) prompted me to go looking for some information about the energy involved in transporting fruits and vegetables long distances. That's why I ended up here. Interesting discussion.

Buying locally is extremely important for a host of reasons, having to do with nationial autonomy (and don't think that the US and Canada shouldn't worry about that), energy consumption and--if for no other reason--taste. It's something I talk about on my blog today.("Market Forces and Markets for Local Fruits and Vegetables" )

So what is the ethical positon on eating mangoes, pineapples and bananas? I've been assuming that the latter two are okay because they are transported by ship and consume relatively little energy per kilo of cargo. Mangoes, though, must be air-freighted, I've just learned (see http://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/ware/obst/mango/mango.htm ), which means they are huge energy consumers.. Zut! Just when I was saying that mangoes and arugula were the two culimary discoveries of my middle age.

Mary

It seems clear that the answer is "neither".

We're so used to buying whatever we want, whenever we want, that the option to *not buy* something seems surprising when mentioned. One of those answers that seems so *obvious* after somebody else has thought of it.

For Sale , Carbon Credirs All you wish to Buy.