Evangelising Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs (CFLs)

The problem with CFLs is that they are not dimmable and they do not provide warm light; I use them wherever I can in my house, but I'd be much happier with affordable LED bulbs.

In the meantime, I will continue to use lower-wattage full-spectrum incandescents on dimmers.

I really want to like CFLs, but I find their uses limited. In my house we rarely run our incandescents (or any lights) on full power. The dimmable CFLs don't dim very low, and often make an irritating humming noise or flickering when dimmed.

I've got one brand new dimmable CFL as my kitchen light, and it's great there as we usually run it at full power. But everywhere else I've tried it in the house just doesn't work.

Perhaps it's just as well they're handing out bulbs that reduce electricty usage - as they're about to slap us with a major price hike (instead of refunding for lost business/computers/investment etc.)!

Some CFLs are dimmable, and recent ones provide light that is as good as any incandescent that I've seen (they also have electronic ballasts, so they light up immediately).

Could it be that you haven't tried a CFL in a while?

Also, most dimmers don't save electricity. The power that doesn't go to the bulb stays in an electrical resistance in the dimmer itself (it's that buzzing sound you hear if you put your hear next to it, I think).

It very well could be; I discovered some 20-100% dimmable CFLs right after I posted (d'oh!). I still haven't seen any with really acceptable warm light, though. Do you have a link?

I am aware that resistance dimming wastes some power; I was mostly just referring to the fact that I have a lot of dimmers in my house, so my use of CFLs is limited without a bunch of rewiring.

Again, LEDs would solve both of these problems.

Treehugger evangelized me to go and buy some CFL's of my own. They last longer and use less electricity, what's not to like? The color and coldness, unfortunately. I use these wherever I can in my house, especially in work areas, but I do hate the color. I agree with jwer that LED's would solve some issues, but they are even worse to look at and use as a lighting source than CFL's because of strobing and color.

I emphathize with Michelle as electric rate deregulation is going to allow a 59% increase in our rates in May. I think the education on CFL's for the general public, which is discussed in the article, is helpful. The average consumer sees a much more expensive light bulb but doesn't realize the long term savings in less bulbs and less energy cost.

> Also, most dimmers don't save electricity.

Bzzzt, wrong. Twenty years ago they didn't. Modern dimmers use big fat transistors to turn off the juice during part of the AC power cycle. Dimmers definitely can help you reduce your electricity bill.

I'm certainly happy to hear that, Max. Is it all modern dimmers or can we still find the old kind on the market?

Warm light CFLs can be identified by color temp of 3000 degrees Kelvin or less. I usually buy Phillips 'warm white' 2700K.

d5xps: thanks, I'll look for them.

Let's see, CFLs save money, reduce air pollution (things like sulfur dioxide, carbon monoxide, and mercury), reduce the amount of CO2 released into the atmosphere, thereby combating global warming, and in some cases reduce oil consumption, thereby lessening our dependence on oil. I for one will put up with a little inconvenience for the greater good.

The greatest strength of CF bulbs is in those places where lights tend to get left on: garage, porch, basement, stairwell, my office. It's a good feeling when you see that someone has left a light on, to not have that panicky feeling of money down the drain.

However, I find that the bulbs are not nearly as bright as their packaging "equivalent" rating indicates, nor are they consistent from one bulb to the next. It tends to be a bit of a hit and miss. These are GE bulbs I'm talking about.

Also, their base is bulkier and so the bulbs don't screw into about half of the fixtures in our home.

The industry has a ways to go.

Overall I'm glad to be using CF bulbs.

something i've been wondering about cf bulbs for a while now,
though they use less energy and last much longer, manufacturing is more involved, using fluoron gas, plastics and a circuit board

in the long run, is it justified?

Tavita: that's great, but far more people would use them if, in addition to being cheaper over their lifespan, they were as pleasant. Also, while they are cheaper overall, if you were someone who couldn't afford the higher upfront cost, you'd probably still buy incandescents. Over many years, solar panels would be cheaper than being attached to the grid, but I can't afford that startup.

The economic and convenience arguments are ignored at our peril; while it's all well and good that a bunch of smug middle-class people can spend too much for ecofriendliness, we'd all be better served if corporations would bring realistic ecofriendliness to the masses. Everyone is an environmentalist in theory, but justifying that against a smaller paycheck just isn't always possible.

>Modern dimmers use big fat transistors to turn off the juice during part of the AC power cycle.

I thought CFLs did not like to have power cycled to them. Doesn't it reduce their life span?

Does anyone know of a candleabra base cf bulb?

Dimming fluorescent lighting has been around for at least 30 years. We used it initially in large office daylighting applications which save greatly in cooling costs and HVAC unit sizes. Basically. anything applicable to troffer lighting applies to CFL's. Today, LED lighting is 5 x better than CFL's and has a 10 x service life.

Jwer,

As for the ecomonic and light quality issues, the prices are going down and will likely continue to go down whether I make a fuss about it or not. In addition, the quality of light has improved and I'm sure will continue to improve.

Sorry for not being clearer, but my comment was directed at all the smug wannabe middle-class enviromentalists (who can afford to own computers) that talk the talk, but can't make the effort to shell out a few extra bucks that will save them money in the long run (it's called an investment) and more importantly reduce pollution and green house gases.

I've read that only 5% of the U.S. population uses CFLs. I'm sure there are millions of people who can well afford to use them, but aren't, even though the overall benefits would be tremendous.

I've also read that of those who identify themselves as environmentalists (about 40% of the population)only 4% actually buy environmentally friendly products like CFLs. I've been following this CFL issue on various blogs and I get the impression that there is just way too much whining going on.

I can forgive the family trapped in poverty who can't afford a CFL, but anyone who has their own computer and is reading this should be ashamed if they don't have at least one CFL in their house or garage. If it so hard to make this kind of a "sacrifice" then we might as well stop talking and wait for the "convenience" of climate change, war, polluted air (and the diseases that come with it) to sweep us away.

Really, Jwer, do you think continuely complaining about what are minor shortcomings of CFLs (compared to their large benefits) is helping to encourage those who can afford to use them to do so?

Cheers from American Samoa (a U.S. Territory in the South Pacific) where our coastline in eroding way as sea level rises.

Tavita,

Your points are well taken.

I agree that most self-identified environmentalists limit themselves to a couple of hemp handbags and maybe a Prius, rather than putting bricks in their toilet tanks and buying CFLs and adjusting the thermostat, and plenty of people buy ridiculous cars and commute 50 miles a day so they can have a lawn, instead of living in a reasonable house in the city and walking/taking transit to work.

I recognize that people have different priorities and rationalizations, but I don't think we should let companies off the hook, because they are the ones that provide us with an array of products to choose from. I would gladly pay 10 times as much for good quality CFLs, but I would still leave my lights off most of the time. Right now, I only have CFLs in my front porch light, by my bed, and in my basement, but those are also the only lights that are on more than an hour a day.

I was just saying that if companies would put out better CFLs, more people would buy them, and then I wouldn't HAVE to complain about them, which I would vastly prefer. Just like hybrids, just like sustainable houses, just like low-flow toilets. Is it better that people buy CFLs in good faith, then feel like they're not doing the job, and also buy incandescents? That's more wasteful than just buying incandescents in the first place.

Sorry to hear about your coastline. That's a much better example of something to complain about loudly and often, I'm sure. I suspect that both you and I are largely preaching to the converted here, though.

Jwer,

Thanks for your reply. I see your point. However, maybe it's just me, I just don't find the light that comes from CFLs so horribly unpleasant that I imagine people buying them and then immediately throwing them away to switch back to incandenscents.

I also believe that, motivated by nothing more than profit, there are companies working on improving them as we speak.

But taking your concerns into account, let's ask people to just try one in the porch light, or with one light they leave on a lot, to see how they like it.

A "try it, you'll like it," campaign for CFLs. Or if you insist, at "try it, you might like it" campaign.

If everyone would just try one that would make a huge difference all by itself, and I think that many people would see they are not so bad and put in some more.

That's why I like the idea being promoted by this website.

http://thebrightidea.blogspot.com/

Cheers

Would it be okay to use non-dimmer approved CFLs in a fixture if the dimmer is never utilized--if the dimmer is always fully open?

Jeff, I've never tried it but after a quick google search, I'd say that the answer is probably "yes".

See this.

It says: "To use a compact fluorescent bulb on a dimmer switch, you must buy a bulb that's specifically made to work with dimmers [...] We don't recommend using regular compact fluorescent bulbs with dimming switches, since this can shorten bulb life."

Then on the next entry they talk about how a CFL needs to be properly warmed up to be at its peak efficiency and have a long life.

So what I conclude from this is that the main problem with dimmers is that they keep regular CFLs from reaching optimal operating temperature and so shorten their life and decreases their efficiency.

So if you keep the dimmer at 100% at all time, you will be operating your CFL at optimal temperature and efficiency.

I might be wrong, though..

Ikea has some great candelabra base compact fluorescents. Our house has way too many vanity fixtures, so we are using a lot of these. (They are also available in a wider range of sizes on eBay.)

I'm a bit confused. I haven't seen dimmable cfls in my area, who sells them? Are there dimmable warm whites? Do they cost a lot? How can one tell in the store if a dimmer will save electricity? Thanks.

philips has a new line of low mercury bulbs/tubes. they go from very warm 3000k to daylight 6500k. very easy to spot at the store with their green metal end caps.

as for the comments on led lighting, no sorry, its just not going to compete with cf in any way. it costs more and uses more power. at the moment its only good for low watt output like flashlights, and even then its only competing with normal bulbs, not cfs, their lumens per watt just can't compete. here for some info http://www.dansdata.com/danletters153.htm
scroll down a bit for this one
http://dansdata.com/danletters078.htm
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166066&cid=13853158
http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=166066&cid=13854255

as for people complaining about the size of bulbs not fitting light fixtures. i'd say your light fixtures are obsolete. places like ikea have been selling small cf's and all their lamps have been cf compatible for many years now. they've actually been promoting cf's for years with information displays and very cheap cf prices at their stores. i'm not sure about this but they may have been selling the bulbs at cost or less a few years back. both lamps and the bulbs are cheap, theres really no reason not to switch. i find myself buying several smaller lamps to light rooms much of the time, scattered task/ambient light to turn on as needed, convenient and better looking than a harsh single source.

Jeff, I read somewhere that CFLs that aren't specially designed for dimmers should not be put into dimmer lights at all, even if the dimmer is kept open at 100%. It's a fire hazard.

I can't find the source though, sorry. Anyone else hear this?

To jwer: I really recommend the Philips warm light CFLs. I'm looking at one now right next to an incandescent light bulb. To me, I can't see any differnce in colour, and haven't had any strobing.

Chidade -- a lot of dimmers don't actually go all the way to 100% -- more like 95-97%. I think it'd be safer to just replace the switch with a non-dimmer switch, if that's what you want. (This is an easy job which anyone can do -- no electrician needed and the parts are only a few dollars.)

Sure, CFLs save electricity which helps the environment, but has everyone forgotten that flourescent tubes contain mercury? Most people will just throw these bulbs away once they are used, and the mercury will end up in a land fill and eventually in the environment...

--
editor note: Please have a look at this.

CFLs certainly need to be disposed of properly and efforts need to be made in that direction, but incandescent bulbs are so inefficient that going back to them because of that problem is actually worse than that problem with CFLs.

My local electric company had a rebate program going which helped lower the cost of the bulbs. For about $45 I converted my whole house over to CFLs and ended up saving $10-15 per month on electricity.
Now I am getting rid of some crappy halogen floor lights in the living room and replacing my appliance and some smaller candelabra bulbs with LEDs. And I am upgrading some of the light fixtures to better accommodate florescent & LED lighting.

For those of you looking for less expensive CFLs, I recently discovered that Costco sells them for about 60% of the retail price (at least for the 60 watt halogens).

Since Feb. 2002, I have purchased about 550 compact fluorescent bulbs for my home. It is a large home, just over 10,000 sf. and uses almost 400 bulbs in fixtures alone. The home has only 3 occupants and the lights are turned on and off as needed with a strong incentive to conserve electricity inasmuch as our marginal rate if over 20 cents per KWHr. We pay 37 cents once reaching 200% of a monthly base KWHr allowance that doesn't cover the monthly needs of the pool filter pump alone, and we have a small pool.

My experience is that the average life expectancy is less than 1,000 hours.

We have returned about 50% of them to the store for refund within the first year of purchase. The balance failed after the first year and could not be returned. In no case did any bulb last in excess of 3,000 hours. The bulbs are in a variety of brand names, however, in examining them with respect to production methods and component parts, it appears they all come from only two different Chinese factories.

Indeed, 3% of all the bulbs are dead on arrival!! another 2 to 3% fail within a few hours. Another few percent are so far off color temperature into the pink, they're unusable. What with the failure rate being equal to or greater than GE incandescent bulbs, and the cost being in the order of 10 times, I view the compact fluorescent bulb as a monumental fraud.

Fortunately, I saved all the old incandescent bulbs, and am relamping the fluorescents as they fail with the old bulbs. While my electric bill will rise, it will be more than offset for years to come by the cessation terrible losses on bulb acquisition.

10,000 sq feet for 3 people? I think you could do a lot more than CFLs. Your footprint is probably 50 Earths..

I read that the life of a CFL is almost proportional to how many times it is turned on. That is, it wears out a little each time. Giving its life in hours is wrong.

I used to work as an electrical engineer in the commercial design industry. A big part of this job was lighting so here are some things to consider:

Dimmability:
Most consumer compact fluorescent bulbs (ones that screw into a standard incandescent fixture) are not dimmable and the packaging usually says that clearly. The only really viable dimmable cfl bulbs are available in the commercial lighting industry and require special dimmers and ballasts (in these fixutres the ballast is not integral to the bulb, but are part of the fixture). It would be helpful for consumers to push home stores like Lowes or Home Depot to offer these options in their stores.

Fixture Efficiency:
Remember that although fluorescent bulbs give a lot of light with low wattage, they have a very 'uncontrollable' light. They work fine in globe or shade (table) fixtures, but they don't really work that well in recessed fixtures. If a fixture is designed for a directional bulb and you screw in a standard cfl into that, most of the light will never make it out of the fixture. Some companies offer reflectorized cfl lamps, but know that with such a large light source (the big huge spiral) there is going to be a lot of light that never makes it out of the bulb (and is thus wasted light and energy). Because Incandesent lamps have a very small light source (a tiny filament) the light can be directed and focused. I say this to note that cfl's have good properties for SOME applications, but sticking a swirl-bulb in a recessed "can" light fixture is not going to give you the same light output as a high quality halogen reflector bulb.

Bathrooms, Storage closets, etc
When manufactureres of CFL bulbs note that they last for 10,000 hours on their packaging, know that there is almost always a disclaimer that says this life rating is based on the bulb running for 3 hours at a time. With cheap consumer fluorescent bulbs, they use a starting method called "instant start." This means that the electronics in the bulb send a huge jolt of electricity through the bulb to get it started. This jolt shortens the life of the bulb every time you turn it on. So installing CFL in bathrooms, storage closets, anywhere you enter for a short time doesn't make sense. Your CFL lamp will have a very short life (possibly shorter than a good halogen bulb on a dimmer) and the relative energy savings will be miniscule because you spend so little overall time with that light bulb on.

Commercial lighting has more ballast options, rapid start and program rapid start. These start the bulb in different and much gentler ways (although they take a second to turn on). With a program rapid start, you can flip the lights on and off all day and the life will not be shortenend significantly. Again, this is something that would be good to push homestores to start carrying fixtures that have this option. In the commercial realm the cost difference between instant start ballasts and program rapid start ballasts is like 5$ and the fact that they aren't offered to consumers is just crazy, IMO.

Overlighting
I find it funny that often people will find the most efficient light bulb, but then overlight their space. Why don't we spend more time considering living with a bit less light. It doesn't make sense to spend more on a light bulb that is 30% more efficient and then have 50% more lighting in the space than is needed. I say that we could save just as much energy (even more with CFL) if we learned to be creative and thoughtful with how much lighting we installed in our homes. Installing multiple levels of light, or well focused light instead of glare bomb ceiling fixtures could help us save energy, but also make much more interesting lighting in our homes and businesses.

I've used CFLs for years where appropriate (lighting situations that tend to remain on for longish periods of time, and where the color didn't bother me).

But, the one thing I rarely hear about is the disposal issue. As far as I know, most if not all fluorescent bulbs (including CFLs) contain trace amounts of Mercury. In some localities it is illegal to introduce them into the regular waste stream. As others here have mentioned, these bulbs also contain extra components, including circuit boards.

When I hear and see people evangelizing CFLs, espousing goals of introducing millions of bulbs over a short period of time, why is this issue never addressed?

I have a growing pile of dead fluorescents that I now have to babysit until I can find the appropriate disposal method. How are you managing it?

A comment on the story about Australia phasing out incandescent light bulbs by 2010.

I know to my considerable cost that long life high efficiency light bulbs have a short life if usually used for only a short period ( i.e. they are switched on for 15 minutes at a time three or four times a day). This pattern of use applies to most of the rooms in our house apart from the living room and kitchen.

I would guess that taking into account the eco footprint of manufacturing and the extra work the consumer has to do to pay for them these 'short life long life bulbs' are far less 'eco friendly' than incandescent bulbs.

Can anyone throw any light on this?
Does the Australian government have any comment?

FYI,

Neptune makes an R-30, 16 watt, dimmable FCL bulb. It works great, puts out more light/watt and is less expesnsive than the GE or Phillips ones. It is also energy star rated.

You can get them at 1000bulbs.com (who seem to have a larger selction of CFLs than almost any other web-supplier, an are helpful on the telephone)

Only oldest dimmers shunt the power to resistance, so the claim that they don't save power is bogus. Any of the more recent ones do since they effectively turn the power on and off very rapidly to achieve dimming. Hence, they save a LOT of power. Get educated.

To those who have been waiting for Dimmable CFLs they are here now. GE, Phillips, you can do a search on them. The good thing is they work with your incandescent dimmers.

See one of the online stores selection; Cost will run you about $10 to $20 for each bulb..

http://www.buylighting.com/Dimmable-Compact-Fluorescent-s/113.htm

I tried installing CFLs in my home a few years ago, but I find the light quality very unpleasant and cold. I have an illness which gives me light sensitivty as well as a high sensitivity to mercury, and I found that I got a lot of headaches using CFLs. I really want to be able to use them, as I know they are more energy efficient, but with the outgassing and the light colour problems I found I'd just turn them off and use incandescent lamps instead. So I've compromised and only buy 25 watt globes. I don't know what I'll do when incandescents are no longer sold in Australia.

Dimmable:
I've tried the three bulb dimmable CFL from Home Depot (they burned out and I found moisture collecting inside the bulb). They didn't work as well as the Wal-Mart spiral bulb dimmables. I tried them with an old twist knob dimmer switch with poor results. The new electronic dimmers work better but can still act weird sometimes (4 lights on the circuit begin to blink on and off at the top of the dimmer capacity or at lower capacity only two lights will come on and the other two will turn off).

Has anyone out there figured out a way to "paint" or 'tint" these bulbs so the light is not so harsh. Incandescents do give off a much more friendly light. David

I actually bought some LED light bulbs for my home from this site. It's true that LED light bulbs can't replace CFL's just yet. They're more suited for directed lighting applications such as outdoor security spotlights or indoor accent lighting. They now come in warm white as well as daylight white and using a fraction of the energy of CFL's and incandescents and last up to 20 years. They're about equivalent to a 25W halogen. Yes - they're not super bright - but they do the job. At the same time, who needs blindingly bright 100W halogens anyway? I got them here:
LED Light Bulbs